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Colossus
« on: January 9, 2012, 04:54:38 PM »
 

Zhar

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I've never played IG, altough I play alot vs them. Is there a reason why nobody takes the Colossus? I would think that you could use it in combo with a valkyrie or anything, just pop the tank with the Valk and then wipe whatever is inside *cough*marines*cough* with a Ignore cover AP3 Large Blast. That seems appealing.. no?

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Re: Colossus
« Reply #1 on: January 9, 2012, 05:06:30 PM »
 

Koval, Master Verispex

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The minimum range being where it is makes it highly situational on anything but a very large table. If it were but 12" shorter, then MEQ would be in deep trouble. For that matter so would everything else (especially Wraithguard; if you have a unit of those guys on the table, with Conceal and Fortune both in effect, then Colossi are among the very limited selection of things that can worry them at range)
 

Re: Colossus
« Reply #2 on: January 9, 2012, 07:00:01 PM »
 

Packetmaster

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I think they are awesome. Maybe nobody use where your at... but, If I would face a heavy marines environment They would be extremely tempting. But I face lots of Hoard and mechanised armies so detta and manticore are Prime Choices for me.
 

Re: Colossus
« Reply #3 on: January 9, 2012, 11:32:03 PM »
 

Spectral Arbor

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The lengthy minimum range makes it a hard sell against assault favouring Marines... which all Marines become against Guard. ;)

You can't fire it directly, so when the Rhino / Razors start screaming forward, they're pretty much belly up.

For me, they're too expensive for how inaccurate they are, for the few number of turns that they might be effective. Plus, when I've ground through the numbers, a pair of highly accurate, short minimum ranged Griffons win out.
 

Re: Colossus
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2012, 03:04:41 AM »
 

Bert_the_Turtle

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The impact of a Colossus is much more psychological than tactical.

An artillery piece that can ignore cover and squish MEQs will force your enemy to come towards you and your firing line.

This works very well for static infantry heavy lists. The Guard can win a shooting fight but even better is when the enemy is too busy to shoot back because they're running into range of your guns. It can also pin down, along with Basilisks, any really maneuverable units.


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Re: Colossus
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2012, 12:10:36 PM »
 

Koval, Master Verispex

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The impact of a Colossus is much more psychological than tactical.

An artillery piece that can ignore cover and squish MEQs will force your enemy to come towards you and your firing line.

This works very well for static infantry heavy lists. The Guard can win a shooting fight but even better is when the enemy is too busy to shoot back because they're running into range of your guns. It can also pin down, along with Basilisks, any really maneuverable units.
Assuming, of course, that the enemy doesn't have
A) the common sense
B) the ability
to shoot it and possibly blow it up. Though I suspect that if your enemy has B but not A, then the Colossus is the least of his worries.
 

Re: Colossus
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2012, 10:34:17 PM »
 

Zilverscale

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I've seen a guard player play with it rather nicely.

It revolved around units that first tried to pin (after being decanned if needed) an enemy unit after which the colossus fired at them.
This ofcourse work 0% of the time vs fearless enemies -.-

But his metagame area had 90% non fearless armies.

PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Re: Colossus
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2012, 05:31:09 PM »
 

Bert_the_Turtle

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Assuming, of course, that the enemy doesn't have
A) the common sense
B) the ability
to shoot it and possibly blow it up. Though I suspect that if your enemy has B but not A, then the Colossus is the least of his worries.

B1) Not only is every army constructed differently, but so is every faction. Not everyone has the ability.
B2) By your argument one wouldn't be able to take artillery at all.
B3) To take it to it's extreme, you couldn't take anything because someone would have a counter since your argument exists in a vacuum. I specificly said "This works very well for static infantry heavy lists." Sufficient infantry can ward off most attacks on artillery, especially if supported by Terrain or Vehicles to block Line of Sight. Setting up smartly is part of good generalship.

A1) Common Sense doesn't enter into it. We're talking about increasingly narrowing choices.
A2) The Colossus ignores most armor and all terrain. This removes the viability of simply hiding from it.
A3) This eliminates many options and forces the opponent to take action that he otherwise may have avoided.
A4) Supported by a sufficiently well built list, forcing the enemy to march into the jaws of your army can be a viable tactic. You need to be built around it though.

From a psychological point of view, eliminating an entire branch of options can cause an opponent to focus on removing it to the exclusion of other better choices, which is exactly what you want.

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Re: Colossus
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2012, 07:12:14 PM »
 

Dr_Ruminahui

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Well, since it doesn't have direct fire and has a significant minimum range, I think that people's point is that the enemy can "hide" from it simply by moving into its minimum range.  And given that most armies can school guard in melee, most armies will be doing that anyway - and it is generally the stuff that is moving towards you that is the biggest threat.

Not to say that it doesn't have its strengths - its probably the best unit in our army list for removing enemy units from their own objectives - its minimum range makes that one of the few tasks that it is good for.  So its natural that when IG players take artillery, they tend to prefer the versatility of the basilisk or the low point cost & accuracy of the griffon.
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Re: Colossus
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2012, 09:23:47 PM »
 

crew4man

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The Collusius is best summed up in this line from the codex. "They are rarely seen except...[when their] seige cannons are required to flatten enemy positions." Its a specific tool for a specific purpose-Its an artillery Punisher, if you will. Good at what it does, but it does only one thing.

Of course, it actually has a fairly small minimum range, smaller than the basilisk (same as the manticore) (unless direct firing means min-range doesn't matter).
Victory- a delicious recipe of timing, confidence, audacity, intelligence... and having more warm bodies than the other guy.
 

Re: Colossus
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2012, 09:41:35 AM »
 

Zilverscale

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(unless direct firing means min-range doesn't matter).

page 58 upper right under Ordenance Barrage Weapons

PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Re: Colossus
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2012, 10:28:04 AM »
 

Shas'Oink

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^^ the colossus rules specifically note that it may NOT fire directly...


 

Re: Colossus
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2012, 10:35:45 AM »
 

Zilverscale

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 ;)
I know but as I read his last sentence; he was asking about the Bassies

so decided to give him a quick page ref for that ;)

PAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Re: Colossus
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2012, 03:59:27 PM »
 

crew4man

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>_>

Well played.

(I don't have a rulebook, I don't play.)
Victory- a delicious recipe of timing, confidence, audacity, intelligence... and having more warm bodies than the other guy.
 

 


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