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3 Attack Bikes vs. DropPod Dreadnought w/MM and HF

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3 Attack Bikes vs. DropPod Dreadnought w/MM and HF
« on: January 3, 2012, 04:45:28 PM »
 

hoya4life3381

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Salamander army with Vulkan gets to re-roll all meltas and flamers (including multimeltas and heavy flamers).

Here's my list:

Vulkan He’Stan – 190
5 Assault Terminators w/Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields - 200
Land Raider Redeemer + Multimelta + Extra Armor – 265

10 Tactical Marines - 220
-Meltagun
-Missle Launcher or Multimelta
-Combi-Flamer
-Rhino

10 Tactical Marines - 220
-Meltagun
-Missle Launcher or Multimelta
-Combi-Flamer
-Rhino

Landspeeder w/MultiMelta and Heavy Flamer - 70
Landspeeder w/MultiMelta and Heavy Flamer - 70

Vindicator - 115

Total: 1350

I can basically take either 3 Attack Bikes or 1 DropPod Dreadnought w/MM and HF.

The DropDread with re-roll to hit has a 8/9 chance of hitting which is amazing and will land on turn 1 usually behind enemy rear armor and more than reliably penetrate it. I could still get screwed by a bad results roll, but I'm still having a great chance of just wiping something off the board right away. Next, my opponent will for sure have to deal with the Dreadnought. However, the Dread will be in Melta range or melee range of Monstrous creatures that have nothing better to do than destroy it. Good thing is that the Dread is immune to bolter-type weapons and the threat of assault makes it still a big threat.

The 3 Attack Bikes would have to turbo-boost for 3+ Cover saves on turn 1 and hope to survive till turn 2 to shoot. However, again with the rerolls to hit, I can afford to lose 2 bikes and have 1 bike reliably able to penetrate a vehicle. The attack bike most likely will be going against side armor and maybe even front armor. Also, the attack bikes 3+ invuln save can be both amazing if you roll well, but also really bad if you fail right away and get instakilled. In theory, the Attack Bikes should be taking away ML and Lascannon shots away from your Vindicator/Land Raider. However, the Bikes will probably eat a lot of Rapid Fire weapons as well.

Which unit would you recommend taking? I see a lot of Attack Bike vs. Speeder threads, but none of Attack Bike vs. Dreadnought!

*FYI Dreadnought is regular old Dreadnought, not Venerable or Ironclad.
 

Re: 3 Attack Bikes vs. DropPod Dreadnought w/MM and HF
« Reply #1 on: January 3, 2012, 06:32:54 PM »
 

enlargingcloud

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I've faced an army like the one you have their at 1850pts and I can safely say that I often was disappointed by two of his units:

-dreadnought, mm+hf in drop pod
-land speeders, mm+hf

Each time, the dreadnought and land speeders died, as I made them my priority targets. While this did draw firepower away from his other units, you must consider what his other units were:
-2 rhinos
-1 TL-lascannon razorback
-land raider (lascannon pattern)
-vindicator

Despite him have a decent amount of anti-tank in the rest of his force, nothing in his army really put a huge pincer on me from turn 1, as all his most dangerous units (assault termies, vindicator, land raider in your case, sternguard in razorback) were close ranged, and so I could spend my 1st turn removing the speeder+dreadnought. After the alpha strike, I was able to watch him slowly move towards me with the other units, allowing me to react with deep strike/mechanized units (I had a chaos space marine army list).

If you take the bikes, it will make many players nervous, as they will have to divide firepower over to a unit that can severely damage them while also not being an easy target to kill. Additionally, you can hide your bikes near the land raider, and can pop transports to give your terminators friends to play with right when they jump out of the land raider.

Additionally, I think that the land speeders may have survived if they had not been the only fast melta in his army besides the dreadnought.

I don't think that the dreadnought will always be a waste, but with every lone wolf-type unit, you risk facing an opponent with a perfect counter to it. That is why I'd take attack bikes, who are also resilient against autocannons in a way.
 

Re: 3 Attack Bikes vs. DropPod Dreadnought w/MM and HF
« Reply #2 on: January 4, 2012, 12:16:27 PM »
 

hoya4life3381

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Funny you should mention the autocannons!  I love the autocannon as a weapon and probably my favorite in the game.  I really like Chaos Havocs as well. 

I've decided that I'm going to be combat squading my two tactical squads when the opportunity arises to get some more long-range firepower out of the missle launchers. I'm going to drop the Vindicator and take the Rifleman dread so that I have a small firebase composed of the 2 combat squads with Missle Launchers and the Dread with 2 Twin-Autocannons. That's 6 pretty accurate shots (should average 5 hits) of transport-opening fire from range that should help cover my advance. I'm still not sold on the Vindicator since any glance will make it useless and then an opponent will go right back to the LRR anyways.

Since I'm combat-squading, I'm going to go back to the flamer/combi-flamer combo for the squads in Rhinos Since my 5 man aggresive squad will have 3 bolters only, I need to pack the flamers to make them truly an anti-infantry force. Even if the combat squad is only good against hordes, it wouldn't be any better shooting against marines because bolters just don't do anything. Might as well tailor it against something it can shine at. I decided to combat squad because adding 5 more bolter shots wasn't as good as having a long-range heavy weapon in an army that could use it.

Vulkan He’Stan – 190
5 Assault Terminators w/Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields - 200
Land Raider Redeemer + Multimelta + Extra Armor – 265

"Rifleman" Dreadnought w/2 TL-Autocannons - 125

5 Tactical Marines - Combat Squad
-Flamer
-Combi-Flamer
-Rhino

5 Tactical Marines - Combat Squad
- Missle Launcher

5 Tactical Marines - Combat Squad
-Flamer
-Combi-Flamer
-Rhino

5 Tactical Marines - Combat Squad
- Missle Launcher

Landspeeder w/MultiMelta and Heavy Flamer - 70
Landspeeder w/MultiMelta and Heavy Flamer - 70

Total: 1350

With this new army list, should I go with Attack Bikes or DropPod Dread w/MM and HF? I'm thinking I go with the Attack Bikes because I now have more stuff in the open with a firebase of Rifleman and 2 Tac Combat Squads. Since my firebase is going to be targetting transports, I'm also going to be dedicating the Attack Bikes to try to kill transports as well.

The Drop Dread would go for stuff like a Leman Russ, but getting rid of mech transports quickly seems to be a higher targeting priority for me. But then again, having a dreadnought in the back (Drop Dread) and a Dread in the front (Rifleman Dread) would mean a better split of fire.   Again, I don't have any real marine bodies to distract them from shooting at the attack bikes since the regular 10 marines in the back (with Missles) would be much lower on priority scale. Since I have transport-killing more covered now that I'm combat squading and taking Rifleman, I'm kind of leaning toward Drop Dread since I will now be all vehicle again (except for Combat Squads). The Drop Dread can go after say a Leman Russ and just take it out evenly at that point.



What would you suggest now with the army change?

 

 


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