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Author Topic: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion  (Read 4807 times)

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Offline Gutstikk

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New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
« on: November 1, 2011, 06:31:52 PM »
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  • Heavy Support Discussion

    This thread is reserved for discussion of the 2011 Necron Codex Heavy Support units. Please discuss other Force Organization entries in their appropriate threads. Discussion of dedicated transports can be placed either alongside the unit (where appropriate) or in the Necron Vehicle Discussion thread.
    « Last Edit: November 4, 2011, 11:49:13 PM by Gutstikk »

    Offline headfirst

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #1 on: November 5, 2011, 11:34:21 PM »
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  • The Canoptek Spyders are very interesting. The way they actually add scarabs to a different squad means essentially you get a free base on your swarms. Also, the statline lets them have more babies!
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    Offline WisdomLS

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #2 on: November 6, 2011, 04:52:03 AM »
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  • I also really like the spyders and think we'll be seeing lots of them, great stat line for the points and scarabs are also great. The anti-psyker thing is a little short ranged but could have it's uses.

    I think the doomsday ark and Doom Scythe are a little expensive but I think alot of people will be taking annihilation barge as it seems a great allrounder for not many points.

    I'm unsure on the monolith, I knew it would lose the immunity to melta and it is cheaper but I still think it is just melta food, unlike landraiders it's never gonna get a cover save.
    It's portal is really good but I wish it had a rule that allowed it to fire the particle whip along with the guass arcs.

    Offline PhoenixLord1989

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #3 on: November 6, 2011, 05:58:49 AM »
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  • Seeing as you kinda have to get close to use most of your shooting, I like the monolith. Because I find it a better means of transportation then the dedicated transports are.
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    Offline Gutstikk

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #4 on: November 6, 2011, 09:05:10 AM »
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  • I never had much use for the physical model of the Monolith, so I'm looking forward to some of the other options in the Heavy Support section. Spyders seem like they're still going to be my favorite but having access to a wider variety of options is always a good thing in my opinion, and I'm a fan of the new models. I'm hoping those who fielded the multiple monolith armies of old don't feel the nerf hit them too hard as things progress - benefits to the rest of the army will hopefully make up some of the shortfalls in the new Monolith rules.

    Offline Dark_Zadok

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #5 on: November 6, 2011, 01:51:48 PM »
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  • I had a game today, first time with new codex.

    the Heavy's I took, were: Doomsday Ark, Monolith & 3x Spyders.
    I basically used the monolith to slow approach some camping long fangs, and give them a good whip, whilst using the portal to teleport my warriors away before they got assaulted in the next turn.
    I really like how you can teleport any non-vehicle unit now - don't like how mono is prey to meltas though!

    My doomsday ark, sat back and unleashed - its a big gun and doesn't disappoint!

    Finally the Spyders, I left them sat between the Ark & Mono, why? I expect the blasters to be targeted and wanted my spyders to be there to repair any damages, this lead to 2 questions:

    1) Do spyders have to be placed together? - previously you could take 3 and let them roam seperately. I'm assuming they can't as there is no rule to say they can.

    2) If all 3 have the special repairing claw, does that mean i can roll 3 dice for repairs on a vehicle? would i also be able to roll to repair the ark, and then the mono, in the same turn? ie: one spyder repairs ark, and one repairs the mono in that one turn. (thankfully this did not come up in the game)

    I have heard good things about the annihilator barge, and since my command barge wasn't much of a success, i'm thinking of converting into an annilhilator barge.

    Offline Don

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #6 on: November 6, 2011, 02:39:42 PM »
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  • I'm really curious to hear what experiences ppl have with their Doomsday Barges, especially against more seasoned players. The gun is nice but they seem to be very limited by not being able to move and fire their stronger shot.

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    Offline Galef

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #7 on: November 6, 2011, 03:01:10 PM »
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  • When you have the range of a long table edge, you don't really need to move.

    I am still unsure about the Monolith.  One might be worth it, but they lost so much.

    What they lost: Immunity to melta/lance
    Immunity to Deep Strike Mishap*
    -1 str on the Flux Arc & Particle whip
    Ability to teleport units out of CC.

    What they gained: Decrease in points
    Ability to fire Particle Whip & Teleport a unit
    Unlimited range to teleport any non-vehicle unit
    Abiltiy to teleport a unit that is in Reserve (possibly even on turn 1)

    There are a few smaller changes, but these are the most important (IMO).  The -1 str of the flux arc is fine when you consider that you can now fire the Particle whip every turn.  The unlimited range to teleport any non-vehicle unit makes up for not being able to teleport out of CC.

    *The only change that hurt is having no immunity to DS mishap.  At least give it the same immunity as a Drop pod, its almost 3x as big for crying out loud!.

    At the end of the day, though, it is the only AV14 vehicle we have and adds a good deal of firepower and mobility to the army.
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    Offline NightMoor

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #8 on: November 6, 2011, 08:52:43 PM »
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  • The main thing people seem to have completely missed about the Monolith is how its Dimensional Portal actually ignores Reserve rolls. You can even bring in a unit from reserves on TURN 1. Third sentence under "Dimensional corridor". Potentially extremely useful.

    The fact that it has 4 flux arcs which all fire completely independently makes it a little more useful than expected, though hardly a machine of lead-dealing death by any stretch. It'll make a nice way to hold the centre of the board while plinking down weakened units.

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    Offline Kaiju Senso

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #9 on: November 6, 2011, 09:52:58 PM »
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  • In my game last night I ran 2 units of 3 Spyders (no upgrades) and a Monolith. I was to afraid to deepstrike the monolith so I placed it as close as possible and moved it towards the enemy objective, hoping to bring in one of my 3 troop choices through the protal to grab it. Now having 4 Flux Arcs is cool and all but I was never able to get to shoot more then 3. Two are easy enough to fire but you have to get the best possible angle to try and get 3. Unless you're lucky enough to deepstrike into the middle of the enemy where they will be on all sides of course. I never used the particle whip because I was trying to stunlock vehicles with the Gauss rule. In the end (turn 3 or 4) it was downed by a Chaos Dreadnought close combat weapon so even without anti-2D6, it would have died the same with either codex. I did realize during the game that I could bring in a unit from Reserves without rolling and it made me wish I planned my reserves better to try it out. Overall I don't expect the Monolith to surive long enough to get in range of objectives to bring units to them. It might be better to stay in the back field but under 24 inches away from the enemy and pull troops choices back to your home objective near the end of the game.

    The Spyders were very useful. They added scarabs to my two units and held off some Chaos Dreadnoughts and Demon Princes but still died pretty easily to these units. Having more wounds and higher WS/BS is amazing! Especially since they are even cheaper points wise. Being forced to combine them into a squad is both good and bad in some instances. Sometimes I like having multiple units for the enemy to worry about but less kill points and a stronger squad overall is still nice. I feel Spyders are cheap enough to throw at the enemy but they still can't ignore a Monstrous Creature bearing down on them.

    Offline Tomb Spyder

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #10 on: November 6, 2011, 10:35:04 PM »
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  • With all the mech in the game, it seems it would be hard not to field 3 Doomsday Arcs.  They even have side guns for protection!  Position them tactically so 2 of the 3 can always have line of sight to anything across the table and You are set.  The big problem I see here is Drop Pods/Deep Striking Units with Melta-guns.  How do you protect these things from that?  To me, the game has turned into who has the bigger guns, and who can blow up armor faster.  Melta-guns seem to be in abundance in everyone's army.  Maybe a 5 man squad of Warriors could hold off a 10 man Drop Pod squad until help arrives?

    As for the rest of the heavies?  Ill pass.  Perhaps a Monolith here and there, but once again....with everyone having meltas now, you have to give it some protection.

    Offline Galef

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #11 on: November 6, 2011, 10:47:27 PM »
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  • I plan on fielding 2 Doomsday Arks and a unit of 2-3 Spyders in my army.  On occasion I might drop the Spyders for a Monolith.
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    Offline Shas'Oink

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #12 on: November 7, 2011, 05:37:34 AM »
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  • I've been reading in places that the Monolith has been nuked now... but having been reading through the codex I think that they are still pretty useful.

    yea, okay, they lost immunity to melta, but really that is the only real thing that has hit them... I can see a bunch of ways for them to be useful. With all the other nice hcoices, I doubt you will see a massive horde of monoliths any more but they are still useful. They still form the only AV14 vehicle the Necrons have... and none of the others have melta immunity, so it is definately not worse off compared to them!

    The unlimited range unit teleport is probably the most beneficial thing... AND, lets not forget that it ALWAYS counts as stationary for shooting. What I read from this is that I can deep strike a monolith, pull a unit through the portal AND fire all its weapons all in one go! That is a lot of activity!

    I think that this is a case where people get dissapointed because their mega unit is no longer as hard... forgetting that they also have a host of other mega units to choose from!



    Offline Killersquid

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #13 on: November 7, 2011, 06:14:20 AM »
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  • I am liking the option for the spyders which gives the army (finally) some measure of anti-psyker defense. I always used them in my army before and I'll do so again. The fact that heavy destroyers are no longer heavy support means I now have more wiggle room for heavy support units. The Doomsday barge looks almost a little too enticing.

    The Monolith teleportation shenanigans just got better, the lack of immunity to double-rolls is going to be annoying, but the positive changes outweigh the negatives. The plane with the DeathRay looks utterly amazing however.
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    Offline g00gle5

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #14 on: November 7, 2011, 06:41:50 AM »
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  • To my memory (I'm at work), my favourite buff for the Monolith is that it can teleport any non-vehicle Necron unit. Thinking about it now, what's the list of things the Monolith can/can't teleport? Scarabs are the first ones that came to mind for me but I'm starting to wonder about C'tan Shards and Spyders?

    Are those allowed or not?

    The Doom Scythe is brilliant but, along with the Monolith, I worry about its size and if Deep Striking it into a good location could be an issue.

    I was thinking earlier that a lot of Spyders, with small units of Scarabs to boost under the advance of the Stormlord or a Monolith wall could be a really nasty proposition...



     

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    Offline PhoenixLord1989

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #15 on: November 7, 2011, 08:37:28 AM »
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  • The unlimited range unit teleport is probably the most beneficial thing... AND, lets not forget that it ALWAYS counts as stationary for shooting. What I read from this is that I can deep strike a monolith, pull a unit through the portal AND fire all its weapons all in one go! That is a lot of activity!

    This is what I thought as well but my friend who I played against said since you have to use the portal at the start of the movement phase you wouldn't be able to use the portal the turn in which it deep strikes since both are at the start of the movement phase.

    To my memory (I'm at work), my favourite buff for the Monolith is that it can teleport any non-vehicle Necron unit. Thinking about it now, what's the list of things the Monolith can/can't teleport? Scarabs are the first ones that came to mind for me but I'm starting to wonder about C'tan Shards and Spyders?

    Are those allowed or not?

    Any friendly non-vehicle Necron unit that is not in combat can get teleported. So basically everything in our codex that in not in assault or have an AV, even your team mates units as long as they are Necrons.

    One tactic that would be useful is to take 3 spyders and 2 monoliths and give all the spyders fabricator claw arrays and just teleport the spyders every time you need them to repair your monoliths lol. Since the portal is in the movement and the repair is in the shooting it will work quite well... in theory.
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    Offline Shas'Oink

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #16 on: November 7, 2011, 09:32:08 AM »
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  • The unlimited range unit teleport is probably the most beneficial thing... AND, lets not forget that it ALWAYS counts as stationary for shooting. What I read from this is that I can deep strike a monolith, pull a unit through the portal AND fire all its weapons all in one go! That is a lot of activity!

    This is what I thought as well but my friend who I played against said since you have to use the portal at the start of the movement phase you wouldn't be able to use the portal the turn in which it deep strikes since both are at the start of the movement phase.

    It was my understanding that reserves were done at the start of the turn.  :-\ This would be before the movement phase. 
    Even if this was not the case I would still maintain that it IS possible to do both things... If the argument is semantic (being that you have done somehting so it is no longer the start), then I would have to ask how it is possible for an eldar farseer to cast more than one psychic power at "the start of the turn"  ???



    Offline Kaiju Senso

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #17 on: November 7, 2011, 11:02:45 AM »
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  • Don't forget O:nk that the Monolith is also huge thus deepstriking without any means of reducing scatter or the old rule of pushing enemy infantry out from under it makes it dangerous most of the time.

    The unlimited range unit teleport is probably the most beneficial thing... AND, lets not forget that it ALWAYS counts as stationary for shooting. What I read from this is that I can deep strike a monolith, pull a unit through the portal AND fire all its weapons all in one go! That is a lot of activity!

    I think that this is a case where people get dissapointed because their mega unit is no longer as hard... forgetting that they also have a host of other mega units to choose from!

    Offline Blood Hawk

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #18 on: November 7, 2011, 12:25:29 PM »
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  • On Saturday I was looking over the the necron codex and the monolith rules for reserves.  If you are playing a mission with DOW deployment does that mean your monoliths HAVE to deep strike?

    Offline Shas'Oink

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    Re: New Necron Codex - Heavy Support Discussion
    « Reply #19 on: November 7, 2011, 12:29:49 PM »
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  • On Saturday I was looking over the the necron codex and the monolith rules for reserves.  If you are playing a mission with DOW deployment does that mean your monoliths HAVE to deep strike?

    That would probably only be the case if the Monolith is wider than 6". I can't recall off the top of my head... though if it is (and something tells me it will be coming close!) then Kaiju Sensos comment above needs also to be taken into account... deep strikign somethign that big could be potentially dangerous!



     

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