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Offline ShasO Bentu

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Author of the New Tau Codex?
« on: October 29, 2011, 08:09:32 AM »
So I have been pondering this lately since there has been a lot of chatter about the Tau being the next codex;  Who is going to be the author of said book?  I got into this conversation last night with a buddy of mine and we started coming up with some interesting points.  Forgive me if this is already a known but I could not find a reference to it anywhere.

First off, thankfully, Matt Ward normally sticks in the MEQ range and just did the Necrons (I don't care for his style much) so I don't think it will be him.  That leaves us Rob Cruddace (Tyranids/IG/SoB WD update) and Phil Kelly (Space Wolves/Orks/Dark Eldar).  Now both Kelly and Cruddace has done something recently, though, Cruddace hasn't written a full codex in a while. So I have been trying to figure out which would be able to do a good codex for the Tau especially assuming they are coming right before 6th editions rumored release.  I really like both of their work so I don't mind which one does it and they both have one arguably toughest codex out there (IG and Space Wolves).  So, what is your opinions on this? 

I am going with Rob Cruddace just based on how well he did with a shooty force such as IG and I really think he can bring some of the flavor he put into that book (i.e. orders) applying it to the marker light system.  Your turn.
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Offline Leocuta

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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2011, 08:39:30 AM »
It could be some new random person that no one has ever heard of...
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2011, 10:31:11 AM »
It's a bit too early to tell. As of the most recent rumors I've heard, the Tau are still pretty distant. The next thing coming down the pike is probably 6th Ed, and the regular Marines, Chaos Marines, Dark Angels, and maybe even Sisters are likely to get treatment before the Tau do. I've heard reports that the studio isn't even giving them a lot of serious thought right now.

Bentu, do you have links to these rumors you're discussing? I might suggest posting them up on the Rumor Mill if you think they're reliable. I'd be interested to hear them, at any rate.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 10:32:42 AM by Wyddr »

Offline Benis

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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2011, 11:13:13 AM »
Those three aren't exactly the only rules designers in 40k, much less within GW, besides we have a very fluctuating description on what the release line looks like ("Tau is next after Necrons! No, it is Chaos! Well I know that it is 6th edition and hard paperback codices from then on!") so beyond having another go at Matt Ward I really don't see what you are looking for here, do you want to discuss the current rules design team or what?


Offline ShasO Bentu

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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2011, 11:14:13 AM »
The rumors I have gotten on this is from BoLS:

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/10/40k-murmors-of-6th-edition.html

edit; another link:  http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2011/10/40k-rumors-upcoming-codex-edition.html

It is stated half way down the article that the Tau is suppose to be before 6th edition which is to be released in the summer.  This isn't the only time I have heard this being muttered either in the last week.  I will try to find some more of my resources that I have found online and edit this entry when I do. 

On a side note, I do have a friend who knows a guy that works near a hobby shop that calls a major hobby shop once a month to talk to the receptionist who knows one of the people that knows a black shirt that had drinks with a temp in the GW main office who overheard that all the mutterings about the Tau are true . . . (hopefully this is obvious sarcasm)

Edit: to address another poster.

My intent on this was merely what I stated before; who would you like to see  design the Tau's next Codex.  I really didn't think it was going to cause a big deal really.  Just generating some thoughts.  You are right, the releases fluctuate but there has been a lot of chatter about Tau lately which does help that case.  There are 3 main rules designers that have released Codices thus far that are still active in 40k which is Matt Ward, Phil Kelly, and Robin Cruddace though Jervis Johnson does tend to play along (he is mostly working with the video game department lately though).  That is why I brought those three up.  There are more and you are welcome to add that name in if you would like or not at all if that is your preference. 
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 11:52:19 AM by ShasO Bentu »
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Offline Wyddr

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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2011, 12:51:29 PM »
Man, I really *hope* Tau aren't the ones getting their codex immediately before the new edition. Most armies that happens to wind up partially obsolete mere months after their book drops. I'd rather have them sit and simmer for a while.

As for who writes it, I haven't any particular preference. Most of the recent books for the major armies have been pretty good on the whole. The only ones I haven't really liked are the boutique-marines, but then I never much liked them, anyway.

Offline Benis

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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2011, 03:28:55 PM »
As for who writes it, I haven't any particular preference.

Ditto, I doubt the overall feel of the codex depends much on the actual author, people might complain about Ward but Kelly's Space Wolves contains just as much hyperbole and idiocy, it has to do with the overall style GW has taken with the Space Marines in general. I do have a bit of a dislike for Kelly's way of writing rules due to his convoluted effects and tendency to break special rules with other special rules but on the other hand he does have a lot of creativity going.

It is true that we have seen few other members of the staff writing for 40k in 5th edition but that doesn't really mean that the rest of the staff isn't involved in projects concerning 40k, we might not have seen their activity due to the fact that they have been tied down to a specific project. :)

Offline ShasO Bentu

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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2011, 03:58:34 PM »
Interesting point about not wanting the Tau Codex before 6th edition hits the streets.  Isn't that what kind of happened with 5th edition (my time frame may be off though)?  That means that, if the rumors are true, that Tau could be a great Codex to start but creep would catch up with them in a year.  I have heard that the Necrons codex already has some interesting stuff in their codex that does not apply not but will most likely apply to 6th edition.  It had been said (in the rumor world) that Necrons and whatever Codex comes out next before 6th edition is suppose to have a small FAQ due to them being written with 6th ed in mind while all the other codices will get a huge FAQ.  I am not sure I like that thought though.  I really don't want to have to staple FAQ pages to my Tau codex to make it functional.

You may be right about the other writers being tied down to other projects so there is no real telling if any of the three I mentioned are doing it or someone else.  I have just notice that the three I mentioned seemed to be going back and forth with the last handful of codices. In any case, we know it won't be the previous writer, Andy Hoare, as he has left the company.  I feel the same way about the Blood Angels codex that you do about Space Wolves really; to many special rules that tend to break other special rules and very ludicrous creativity (Librarian Dreadnought). 

I have liked some of the things each of those authors have done, but I dislike just as much (very little from Robin Cruddace though). Just hoping none go overboard with the Tau as it seems is a bit of a running theme in my opinion.
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Offline Benis

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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2011, 04:06:44 PM »
I feel the same way about the Blood Angels codex that you do about Space Wolves really; to many special rules that tend to break other special rules and very ludicrous creativity (Librarian Dreadnought). 

If by 'ludicrous' you mean 'lack of' I agree. I would say there are actually rarely any contradicting special rules when Ward is at work, even if the codices ascribed to him generally contains little originality or matureness they do have solid rules that are efficient and easy to understand.

I have liked some of the things each of those authors have done, but I dislike just as much (very little from Robin Cruddace though). Just hoping none go overboard with the Tau as it seems is a bit of a running theme in my opinion.

Robin Cruddace is generally solid and he writes rules in a very aesthetically pleasing way if you ask me but then again there does seem to be balance issues with his works, Imperial Guard, Tyranids and Sisters of Battle all suffers from imbalance, both internally and externally (remember that imbalance goes both ways).

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2011, 04:16:34 PM »
To be warned though, the tone of the Tau Empire has changed significantly since Empire was released even more so than the difference between Tau and Empires. How the Tau are described in the Deathwatch releases is far from the rose glasses approach in the original Tau. I suspect that the new codex is going to be still very enthusiastic but also somewhat darker than what we've seen before no matter who writes it.

This is a good discussion thread and I'm enjoying it. So I ask that people continue to refrain from any game mechanic wishlisting within it.  :)
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Offline Benis

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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2011, 04:32:05 PM »
I personally do not have any problem with that development, what I have read of Dark Heresy concerning the Tau has painted quite a good picture in my opinion and the grim needs of a sprawling young empire will require certain sacrifices. I much more fear that they will take a step back into the rose-tinted cloud again, trying to portray Tau as a shallow belovable goody two shoes race.

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2011, 04:38:30 PM »
I much more fear that they will take a step back into the rose-tinted cloud again, trying to portray Tau as a shallow belovable goody two shoes race.

That's a valid concern. Personally I'd favour more dark (not necessarily grim dark nonsense) than a return to the "weeeeee!" days. Well intentioned extremists that the Tau are. BFG Armada, IIRC, was the one which began mentioning orbital strikes as a bargaining posture when it came to another race entering the Empire by "choice." The DeathWatch book I mentioned before, for those unfamiliar with it, describes how a Tau Sept that captured Imperial worlds a while back regularly deal with their assimilated human population. All for the Greater Good.
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Offline Benis

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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2011, 04:55:11 PM »
Yeah, while being idealists the Tau are also very pragmatic and that will show through when it comes to diplomatic end games, if terrible atrocities are required then terrible atrocities will be performed. There has been some rumours that 6th edition will more clearly paint out Eldar and Tau as also being good guys outside the Imperium and that, to me, might mean a bit of a simplistic approach to Tau to much more clearly show them in that light.

Offline ShasO Bentu

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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2011, 05:10:37 PM »
I have to agree that I like the more dark storyline than the rose glasses storyline.  When I actually think about it, it isn't a "join us or die" thing but more of an Expansionist point of view.  I think back to the Roman Legions in this case.  The Romans did not merely execute everyone who stood in their way.  They assimilated cultures, giving those defeated by them full citizenship and Legions.  The Legions in that era were manned by the local region citizens that were trained in the Roman Arts of War so they could defend or assault from their region for the Good of Rome.  This is were I kind of draw that parallel.  Each race that the tau assimilate is given a place in the Tau Society.  Each one serves their purpose in the grand scheme for the Good of the Tau Empire (the Greater Good).  Sometimes this happens with out war and some times, this being the 40k Universe and all, it has to happen with war.

I have not read the Deathwatch book but thank you for telling me about it as I am trying to find a good collection of books to take with me when I deploy (it will be on my list).
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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2011, 05:38:35 PM »
By Deathwatch I refer to the Fantasy Flight Games roleplay series. Large books so probably too weighty to take on a deployment. Tau are well featured in the main book and in the Mark of the Xenos add-on book.

While some atrocities may be required, some certainly are not and I personally consider them idiot ball material. Such as shooting up the Imperial Church in Courage and Honour by Graham McNeill. It seemed so pointless and arbitrary. Not that the Ethereal in that book was the sharpest tool in the shed by any means.
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Offline ShasO Bentu

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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2011, 09:39:14 PM »
Well, that explains why have not read Deathwatch as it really isn't the type of book I was thinking it was.

Well, not to be stuck on the Roman Legions thing but the Romans would actually do a lot of things that seemed arbitrary and pointless to those who just utterly refused to join.  Doing things like that serves the minor purpose of fear mongering which would bring the locals into their fold just because they did not want to face the repercussions of not (for example; the Roman Legions ritualistically burned and salted multiple acres of farmland their enemies would have just to prove a point). 

All in all, Courage and Honor was really written as a lopsided Marine Love book anyway in my opinion.  It didn't even seem to make sense with how he portrayed the Tau and I just don't consider it as well thought out.  I wouldn't take anything away from that novel and really apply it as part of the Tau storyline.  It was really a shame too because I normally like everything Graham McNiel has written.  Again, the above is my opinion and opinions vary. 
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Offline popsical

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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2011, 05:49:52 AM »
I have a sneaky feeling that Cruddace will do the new Tau dex.
There are two outcomes to this;

1) He will produce a longterm competitive army list like the guard dex, there will be multiple good builds and one or two uber net lists.

2) He will produce a limited nid style dex, where various units will be useless due to rules/points issues, and all our characters will start off awesome only to be FAQ'ed to death within 6 months. (This i sincerely hope doesnt happen)
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Offline SwampyTurtle

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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2011, 01:05:54 PM »
I have a sneaky feeling that Cruddace will do the new Tau dex.
There are two outcomes to this;

1) He will produce a longterm competitive army list like the guard dex, there will be multiple good builds and one or two uber net lists.

2) He will produce a limited nid style dex, where various units will be useless due to rules/points issues, and all our characters will start off awesome only to be FAQ'ed to death within 6 months. (This i sincerely hope doesnt happen)

Same here, If Cruddace can write a amazing Guard codex i got a sneaky feeling he'll be assigned to the do the Tau Codex too.

Has anyone thought about what the new name of the codex maybe?  (Codex: Tau, Codex: Tau Empires, ect)
I would love it if it went back to just the orginal Codex: Tau format.  The whole "empires" bit felt too much like they were writing a sequel to the codex for a movie. Whats next?  Codex: Return of the Tau ?*  :D

* all taken in good humor of course


However i agree with Popsical. It will ether be a killer and long term codex like IG (which i hope it is!) or it'll be a limited Nid style codex that got shafted and FAQ'ed to death. I think he might have learned however from Nids and so im hoping that Tau will be a good mix in between (granted without the uless rules / points issues; but nothings ever perfect)



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Offline popsical

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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2011, 03:05:27 PM »
Should be :              "Codex TAU" The greater good.

Maybe:                     "Codex TAU" The revenge of the 'el.
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Offline ShasO Bentu

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Re: Author of the New Tau Codex?
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2011, 05:38:23 PM »
Humorous, I was actually rolling at the prospect of the Star Wars themed Codex names.  It makes me think if I can do up a Crisis Suit Commander in an almost Darth Vader motif with and Ethereal dressed up as the Emperor.  Really, at this point we may just want to go with
Codex: Tau A New Hope.  That one almost seems in bad taste even for me.

Edit:  Probably would have helped if I completed my thoughts first.

One of the guys at my local shop started collecting Nids when their new codex came out.  Originally it seemed they were extremely powerful then, the FAQ's hit.  I am not sure what it was about the FAQ's that did it but they did not seem as strong after that.  He plays mostly monster bug now and that didn't seem to get hit as hard.  I would actually have to pay attention to it more, we are a fairly laid back group that tends to just trust the other player anyway (we could abuse it but never saw the point of it).  I think Cruddace did a great job with guard to the point I have strongly considered picking up the army but didn't want to feel like I was "front running".  I picked up the Crons instead since every one in my shop has an MEQ army and a non MEQ army (I needed the MEQ).  I am now wishing I picked up Chaos instead just to have something that is a complete opposite of my TAU.  I digress since I have a bad habit of getting on tangents.  I think Cruddace could do a fantastic job if he puts the same effort and ingenuity in TAU that he did for Guard.  I don't want the Guard rules by any means (the orders, platoons, etc) just some of the same creative ideas.  Phil Kelly has experience with the alien races though between Eldar and Orks so he does has some of the feel for the job but he didn't really have to do much with them since their stories have long since been established where the TAU is currently ongoing.  I am still going for Cruddace.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 06:01:07 PM by ShasO Bentu »
For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.
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