Topic: 3 rules I need help to interpret (Vulcan, Telion and GoI).

[Luca Davo]

Hi, I am sure the questions I am about to ask has been discussed here before but I couldn't find any threads covering them. Hopefully there is a short answer to them or if not that so at least a consensus regarding them. Here goes:

If you take Vulcan the C:SP (page 93) say that “all units in your army lose the combat tactics special rule. Instead, all thunder hammers in your army will count as master-crafted, and all flamers, heavy flamers, meltaguns and multimeltas count as twin-linked”

My question is if this rule also affects vehicles and other units that do not have the combat tactics rule from the beginning or if all those guns/weapons in my army will benefit?  We had a debate about this during my last game and I can’t really decide how you should interpret the paragraph above.

My second question is about the librarian psychic power gate of infinity. Can I use it even if the librarian (and the squad he is attached to) is engaged in close combat at the beginning of my movement phase?

The third and last question is regarding Telion. I know you guys have been discussing this before, but as I said, I couldn’t find the thread. Does he confer stealth to the rest of the scouts he is with?


Best wishes /David

[Hymirl, Space Machine!]

If you take Vulcan the C:SP (page 93) say that “all units in your army lose the combat tactics special rule. Instead, all thunder hammers in your army will count as master-crafted, and all flamers, heavy flamers, meltaguns and multimeltas count as twin-linked”

My question is if this rule also affects vehicles and other units that do not have the combat tactics rule from the beginning or if all those guns/weapons in my army will benefit?  We had a debate about this during my last game and I can’t really decide how you should interpret the paragraph above.

It says it effects all weapons, therefore it effects all weapons. This is different to the special characters which change combat tactics for something different. Vulkan will effect vehicles.

My second question is about the librarian psychic power gate of infinity. Can I use it even if the librarian (and the squad he is attached to) is engaged in close combat at the beginning of my movement phase?

No-one knows. Have a look at these threads;
http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=188028.0
http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=181395.0

The third and last question is regarding Telion. I know you guys have been discussing this before, but as I said, I couldn’t find the thread. Does he confer stealth to the rest of the scouts he is with

This one is clarified in the rulebook FAQ which is here: http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1830600a_40k_Rulebook_version_1_4.pdf

Its on page 7, in the right column near the bottom.

Does that help?

[Luca Davo]

Thanks a lot Hymirl!

[Wuestenfux]

Well, in terms of the 2nd question, GOI is used in the movement phase. But units locked in cc cannot move and so GOI is not applicable. I'd take this as a reasonable argument.

[Luca Davo]

Well, in terms of the 2nd question, GOI is used in the movement phase. But units locked in cc cannot move and so GOI is not applicable. I'd take this as a reasonable argument.

No but he can use a psychic power. GoI can be used in the beginning of the movement phase (that is the only delimitation) and units locked in cc still have a movement phase...

[Hymirl, Space Machine!]

Well, in terms of the 2nd question, GOI is used in the movement phase. But units locked in cc cannot move and so GOI is not applicable. I'd take this as a reasonable argument.

I would consider it totally unreasonable to describe a psychic power as movement because its not movement; its a psychic power.

The point here being that there is no actual answer to the question, the threads I linked to show that there is not conclusive argument either way. Its fairly pointless to bother debating it.

[Luca Davo]

The point here being that there is no actual answer to the question, the threads I linked to show that there is not conclusive argument either way. Its fairly pointless to bother debating it.

Yes but what to do in a game? Throw a die?

[WisdomLS]

I find that when you have a possibly problematic rules problem that has no actual answer it's best to discuss it with your opponent before the game so you both know how it will be played and thus plan for it. If you can't decide between you how to play it then roll off.

[Mr.Peanut (Turtleproof)]

I would consider it totally unreasonable to describe a psychic power as movement because its not movement; its a psychic power.

Relax, kiddo, you understand he's referring to the psychic power that causes the unit to move via Deep Strike.  You can agree or disagree without resorting to a strawman version of his argument.

[Hymirl, Space Machine!]

Yes but what to do in a game? Throw a die?

You can do that, or discuss it with your opponent at the start of the game.

[enlargingcloud]

What I would do is consult a manager with your argument to clarify your case and to then make that ruling apparent to all people in the store.

A simple argument which I have is that, since models in CC may not move out of the close combat, they cannot be moved off of the board in order to move back onto the board using deep strike.

Also note that the Necron's Veil of Darkness is a similarly functioning piece of wargear, that specifically states that it can move out of close combat.

So here we have one situation that clarifies the ability to break a rule in the BRB, and another situation where a psychic power does not clarify this.

Personally when a rule is not clear, I always handicap myself, as in the end it saves energy that could be spent thinking of clearly legal tactics. Its important to keep the game simple, and with my above argument, while not concrete, you can probably convince people that GOI cannot be used in CC.

Remember that these certain rules debates shouldn't be standing between you and beating your opponent. If its not clear, think of other things, and call over a judge or store owner to help if you need.