Topic: Peoples Attitude to Space Marine Collectors

[Explosivo111]

Hi everyone
Was at WW the other day for some casual gaming with friends, and the throne of skulls 40k tournament happened to be on.
So i went round and met a few of the tournament players as i usually do talking about what armies we collect and there doing in the tourney etc.

Then i started talking to this one player he collected Tau and seemed to be doing pretty well with them
I told him i was a vanilla marine collector too which he replied 'Just like everyone else then...don't you get tierd of being a sheep'

Not knowing what to say to this i decided to jokingly reply with a little comment about how easy his tau are to punch to death

So my question is this 'Do you find that, because nilla marines are the games workshop staple army, and the alot of new players do tend to collect them, that you get less respect or are treated differently as a player?'

Or am i just overly sensitive?

[Killing Time]

Without having been there to see if he was making a friendly joke, it sounds like he was just being a tool.

Some of my very good gaming friends collect vanilla marines, and I have just as a good a time playing against them as I do playing against the guy with the ultra weird army that has everything converted out of forge world stuff.

Play what you like.

[Leocuta]

I think he was just thinking out loud, a not very nice thought. If you collect them then you collect them, then why change? (I dont know what vanilla is, I think it was a stupid comment)

I think new people who start with SM have what ever army the guy in the shop says is good, or if he works something out himself.

[Wyddr, Evil Space Marine]

A lot of new or inexperienced players tend to collect marines because, as you said, they are the poster child of 40K (and, let's face it, they're pretty cool, too). As a result, there are a lot of marine players out there, and a lot of them can be a bit annoying. This doesn't mean all of us are by any stretch of the imagination, but I know that, when I go to tournaments, the players who have, on average, the worst painted armies, the lowest level of maturity, and the least tactical sense tend to be marines, followed by Chaos, followed by everybody else.

I have only had two 'bad' games of 40K in my life, and both of them were against marine players. One was a 13 year old kid I played in a tournament who wasn't paying attention to the game, walked away from the table for minutes at a time, and complained whenever I killed one of his models by saying my army was 'so cheeseballs'. I tabled him by turn 4, and it wasn't fun in the least. The other guy was a colossal whiner playing Blood Angles who was genuinely upset that I wasn't letting his guys get in assault with my firewarriors. He made me feel like a villain.

Granted, these folks exist in all factions, but I'm betting that, due to GWs marketing strategies, proportionally more of them play marine armies. This doesn't mean marine armies are bad or boring or lame, just that some of the people who play them are.

[Swamp Rat]

Hehe, the goat-man calling people sheep.

Anyways, that's just something you're going to have to deal with when you're the Alpha baby. Seriously however, it sounds like that gent was a touch bit of a tool. The way i see it, people collect what they want to collect. I've had numerous ideas based on armies I want to do, an all samurai/ninja/Striking Scorpion Eldar Army, the Word Bearers from First Heretic using an SM codex and posessed models as the Command Squad, recreate Black Hawk Down in Guard, an all Scourge/Helion Dark Eldar army, yet due to funds, and a strict discipline of "finish what you start", i only let myself do two armies at a time. At the minute, it's my Space Wolves and Mantis Warriors, the former because i've always done them and have various ideas i want to try before i retire them, the latter as a long term project to make on of the Badab War Companies.

Now, does that make me a sheep because i'm doing two armies i like? Vikings, and Dust Warriors?

Nope, it just means i have a different interest to that gent. I'm not a fan of Tau, i'm not a fan of Dark Angels, i'm not a fan of Orks, i'm not a fan of Necrons, should i collect them because they're different? Or should i collect what i like? I have an interest in Roman and Greek history, and so base my WoC around the militaries of those time periods, because they're the best fit, i shouldn't have to worry about what army is "in" at the minute, or look at what everyone else is collecting before i decide what i'm going to do, i'm going to do what i'm going to do, regardless of what other people are doing.

I also think that Wyddr has a point. Marines get a bad rep because the majority of people play them, and so the proportion of least skilled/most annoying will seem to be more in the Marines than other races.

I reckon that the guy who said that is pretty hipster, and listens to music that you probably havn't heard of, and refers to us common folk as proles.

[Arquarian]

I have to admit I tend to have hold a slight irrational disrespect towatrds the "average" Marine player. and this is bourne ouit of a comment Wyddr made and that is the fact that

a) There tends to be MANY marine players therefore veriety of enemy tyends to suffer
b) Marines are the 'staple' 40K army (even thought hey are supposed to be elite and few in number  ) and as such a lot of new players tend to pick them. and (Warning: widesweeping generalisation!) as a general rule newer players tend to be the less mature, whingy, whiny little gits that you don't particularily enjoy playing. Obviously there are exceptions either way.

I'm not a power gamer by any means I play for fun but as I've been involved in the game for 20 years now (Oh God, help me now) I'm not too bad at picking a half decent army list and I know my way around a battlefield.

It hasn't helped that every single 40K start-up box has included Marines of some sort or another, unlike the Fantasy game whoes races alternate.

I will say though although I do harbour this anomosity to Marine players I keep it to myself. For the guy to show you overt disrespect was out of line. The best retaliation is to play him and beat him. Make him show you some respect. But at the end of the day he's little and Blue and Tau. So he's only one step up from a grot, only one very small step.

Having sadi all that I have seen it come my way too.
"Oh, your an Eldar player... roll a D6, you win. 'Eldar special rule no doubt'. huh huh"
Surprisingly this came from GW staff who played.... wait for it..... Nilla Marines! - Tool.

Hehe, the goat-man calling people sheep.

Anyways, that's just something you're going to have to deal with when you're the Alpha baby. Seriously however, it sounds like that gent was a touch bit of a tool. The way i see it, people collect what they want to collect. I've had numerous ideas based on armies I want to do, an all samurai/ninja/Striking Scorpion Eldar Army, the Word Bearers from First Heretic using an SM codex and posessed models as the Command Squad, recreate Black Hawk Down in Guard, an all Scourge/Helion Dark Eldar army, yet due to funds, and a strict discipline of "finish what you start", i only let myself do two armies at a time. At the minute, it's my Space Wolves and Mantis Warriors, the former because i've always done them and have various ideas i want to try before i retire them, the latter as a long term project to make on of the Badab War Companies.

Now, does that make me a sheep because i'm doing two armies i like? Vikings, and Dust Warriors?

I couldn't agree more......




Last point I'll make is that some of my most memorable games were against Nilla Marines. Not because of the make up of the army but because of the players themselves. They like swamp rat above make their armies come alive rather than just play the game.

[Shadows Revenge]

marines get all the toys, enough said 

Ive never liked marines, I find the generic, we always win story to be boring and over used. Now while some of the individual chapter fluffs are cool (cough: ravenguard) they are just so bleh to me. They are also GW highest selling army and poster child, meaning there are TONS of players compared to every other army, so my inner non-bandwagon self is repulsed by them. Also Codex marines and the rejects (BT, DA, SW, BA, and GK) are a staple of top teir lists out there, which annoys because the majority of players I play against are the type that finds the latest "internets list" and uses it till a new one comes out.

That being said, you collect what you want. I have a friend that is putting the finishing touches on the entire Ultramarines chapter (I think he needs a few more rhinos and dreads, but thats it). While Im repulsed by the SMurfs, the idea of having a chapter in a case intrigues me, and aploud him on his work and craftsmanship to put all that time and effort into them (he has even numbered all the marines codex style, quite nicely too.) They are not an army for me, but for others, its all them, and I respect that.

[Wuestenfux]

Well, you get all my respect if you play vanilla Marines and do fine with them. They are not so easy to play successfully.
Its neither cc oriented nor purely shooty. The plan generally is to keep the enemy at arm's length, shoot him during his advance and then go for his throat when he comes close. Tau players may not understand that this kind of tactics is not so easy to pull off.

[KJQ]

So my question is this 'Do you find that, because nilla marines are the games workshop staple army, and the alot of new players do tend to collect them, that you get less respect or are treated differently as a player?'
Or am i just overly sensitive?

I've been playing 40K for about 16 months now, and to be honest I picked Ultramarines because I'm somewhat lacking in the imagination department (fluff creator I'm not).  I prefer to follow a prescribed modelling/painting pattern. While I built models in my youth, I'm now in my 50's and so for me it's mostly about playing games. Modelling and painting is just something I have to do to be able to play with more choices.

I've been in a few club tournaments but mostly play for fun, and mostly against my twin sons on our home ROB table.  Maybe our local Halifax GW is above average, but I can honestly say I've never taken any grief from another player. I love the fact that the people I've met and played are generally polite and are focused on everyone having fun. I think the store staff is to be credited for this general attitude/atmosphere too.  Sure, a few players push it a bit such as being sloppy when moving models, but I let that go because while it might (rarely) affect the 'winner' of the game, it only affects the entertainment value of a game if I let it. The only thing I make sure to speak up about are incorrect application of rules, because I want to be sure I'm correct, and also to benefit the other player if they have an incorrect understanding.

I do agree with other posters that since the majority are C:SM players, you're going to meet quantitatively more jerks than those playing other armies.  That said, I don't think that is an excuse for anyone to deride SM players.  Since I've been playing less that 2 years I don't know the history of 40K much, but I personally find it very challenging to win games currently with a vanilla C:SM army, especially against the ones with newer codexes (e.g. GK, DE, BA). That said, the satisfaction is much higher if I do win a game.  I now have a lot of models to choose from (~8K pts), so I have more of a challenge creating lists, but less of an excuse for poor results 

I don't really have much advice for you except to say to try and focus on having fun, and ensuring your opponent does too. For me the latter means not being picky, and being generous in terms of LOS, cover etc. In friendly games I also point out forgotten things to my opponent because I don't like to win because of a tactical blunder on the part of the other player. Just my way of thinking. Others disagree claiming people learn best by not being helpied, but if they don't know what they forgot to do, how will they learn. If they are told after it is "too late", then that tends to put a huge dent in their enjoyment of that game, which is against "the most important rule".

Enjoy!

[murgel]

Well, I am playing some marine armies as well.
AND I'm currently building a nice small vanilla list (going to be sons of Orar probably)

I have to agree however that a lot of marine players tend to be younger than me, significantly.
The only thing one might complain about is that the "kids" often do not take the time to paint before coming to the board.
And that sucks. at least some basic work should be done. Base-colours without highlights or shades etc. would be ok, but assembled, often not even base-coated? That kind of robs you half of the gaming experience.

Being the old man that I am I try not to put something on the table which is not at least "3-colours-up". That is a good rule.

My girlfriend is even more strict. " no playing with substandard models."
She paints better than I do and always tries to block my models as "inadequate...."

[Partninja]

I always find it amusing when someone who plays one army rags on another. The Tau guy raging on a Vanilla player? Tau in my opinion are extremely boring to play. Basically shoot, move away from opponent and shoot some more. Now this isn't to say that it's easy or the only thing Tau can do, but it still very boring. While Marines are the most common, you can also do quite a bit with marines that other armies can't. You can make very different armies that all work very differently.

This also not to say that Marines are better than Tau. Everyone has their own taste.

[Hades Hound]

This also not to say that Marines are better than Tau. Everyone has their own taste.

Exactly right. I started off as an Eldar player simply because I liked the models and the style of play suited me. While I still love my Biel-Tan to death, I was captivated by the Raven Guard background that showed up way back in WD276 (Yes I'm old! No I haven't come to terms with it yet!), so so started building up an RG army. I'm not your typical 'nilla player, in that this isn't where I started, but that's not to say marines are boring, cookie cutter, or stale. There's plenty of variety in 'nilla SM, and if that haughty Tau player can't appreciate that, all's the more shame. Seriously, talk about a case of "Their arrogance is matched only by their firepower"... 

Anyways, you're not overly sensitive, you just ran into a hipster who thinks his army is better than any other out there. You can school him on the table if you want, or you can simply ignore his type and spend your time playing against those who better appreciate the fact that army choices are based on different factors for different people. Either way, have fun with it.

[margomoh]

I think you're going to find people like that no matter what army you play. I have opponents that regularly refer to my army as "Gaydar" because they don't like Holofields or special fields.

The trick is to just ignore them and have fun with the game, no matter what army you play.

[evileyevirtue]

Well, as obviously mentioned, SM armies are the most abundant.  Combine that with the fact that we tend to remember the bad more so than the good... a lot of people run into "bad" SM players because there are more in the first place.  And we remember that. 

One example, I played a guy who played almost purely competetively who bought an eldar army just to beat the snot out of people.  Nice guy off the table, but on the table he was constantly asking to see rules he knew, measuring the move from the front to back, and a total whiner when called out on it.  He was one of the worst... make that THE worst player I've ever played against (even though I tabled him in 4).  I know he doesn't represent all eldar players out there, but every time I line up against an eldar player I sort of cringe...

On the other hand, one of the best players I've played against is this guy who plays SM and guard... and he plays some pretty interesting choices to say the least.  He always brings his game to the table, makes the game fun and always blows your mind by taking those choices that the internet list nazis would freak out for being ineffective... and manages to beat me most of the time.

[jawmonkey]

If you make a very individual marine chapter, they don't give you as much crap.

I like my marines and routinely find myself going back to them (I have many, many armies). After fielding every army except DE, CSM, and daemons I can safely say that I like marines best because after a while, lets face it, you can get tired of playing an army with paper thin armour and fancy rules.

[RandomGuardsman]

  I got into 40K because of the Imperial Guard, and the fluff behind them. I really loved the Basilisk, but will probably never get one.
The Dawn of War games did recruit a lot of people to 40K, but as the SM had been the poster child, guess what the explosion of armies was? 

  I despise the Idea SM as a hole more than I do individual player. They are depicted as overpowered superheros that come to save the day, and always look good doing it. I am more of the type that prefers being the average Joes fighting the overpowered people tooth and nail to survive.
  As for the Individual players, I have met 3 out of 1748901723489071389 4 (exaggeration) SM players I actually did not think was an annoying whiny kid or a Powergaming Tool.  (I must say sadly that a lot of them played IG as well .)
One was a 12 year old kid that liked the looks of the models and was learning to play, the others had been collecting for awhile and seemed to be down to earth. So I know there are good SM players out there, just fewer in numbers because of the SM overpopulation.

  To me, one player telling another player he is a "sheep" because he plays an army that gets played a lot kinda reminds me of a Goth kid dressed like all of the other Goth kids making fun of a person because they are "conformists acting like everyone else"....Pot calling the Kettle Black.

 

  I plan on collecting 500 pts worth for my shelf for fluff reasons for my IG, and SoB when I start collecting them. I will probably never play with the army though.

[Cortez]

I started with Tau. Why? They're a bunch of freaking hippies who zap you with uber guns, and they have Jet Packs!

Moved onto Blood Angels when they hit the WD codex. Was never able to get used to making an effective list without racking up a large unit of Death Company, and I wasn't such a great player back then either.

I tried vanilla marines for a while. I failed. I tried Space Wolves for a while. That failed, too.

Came back to good old Blood Angels. I still get called 'cheesy' and 'OP' whenever I use an uber combo like Sanguinary Guard, Chaplain and Sanguiniary Priest, but hey, I'm a marine player.

Noone has the right to judge you for your choice of army. So what, you collect the same race as others? If anyone calls you a 'sheep' or 'noob' for collecting marines, just refuse to play them.

In fact, my best games have been against marine players.

[Explosivo111]

wow wasnt expecting this thread to be so popular

Its interesting to hear peoples opinions on the this matter, and also reasurring to know that not everyone is judging SM players.
I really like the analogy about the hipster/goth not wanting to conform, seemed to sum up the tau player quite nicely.

I collect marines purely because when i was 12 my friend said 'Collect these there cool' and now at the age of 19 and just going back into 40k, its saved me money to just repaint my old models and as a student this is usefull
But im really glad i did, because i love marines and with my current list im at 5 Wins 2 Draws 1 Loss
which isnt too shabby i dont think.

Explosivo111

[SwampyTurtle]

Having started off with Tau and facing black templars from day 1 in my 40k gaming career, i say that orginally my buddy whom got me into it use to show me alot of tips. I learned marines were the most popular army and that as a tau player, playing (and winning) against these types of armies would be nothing short of a challenge. my marine vs tau games since have been some of the closest, hardest, most well fought battles. I love the challenge!

Not all Tau players are like that though. Just because player X collects a army doesnt mean all people are like player X. Alot of tau players and other races that ive meet from people are generally very nice people. espically as tau, we realize that we are on the lower end of the totem pole and have to fight to win our victorys.  Having picked up guard (and recently breaking the 2000 points barrier), i can say, i probably should have started with guard. Its much more my style of play but i had another buddy at the time playing guard and didnt want there to be too many of one race there at the FLGS.

I do have another friend of mine that players nilla marines with his own home made custom chapter and i do give him crap from time to time about being a marine player but he knows im never serious, and he'll dish it right back out to me for being a weakling guard player or a blue commie    I do believe sometimes there is a difference between Bullamphetamine parroting between buddies and a serious hurtful comment. From what the OP has writtern it sounds much more like the latter.  In which case you just beat the crap out of him on the table or dont play him.

[Caustic]

Admittedly I find Dark Angels unappealing now due to an incident between another player and me a while back, but overall I don't harbour any bad feelings about playing against Marine players at all since they are just another opponent to play against.

Codex Marines are an army that is easily picked up by new players, but from my experience difficult to win with in a competitive setting.  Even my best army lists with Marines produce close and narrowly faught games against less than optimal armies, which isn't good compared to my Hybrid Guard (which tends to crush things) and my Three Stormraven Grey Knights.

The best way to respond to such sentiment would be to actually be glad he feels that way.  Having your opponents underestimate you is always a good thing.