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Author Topic: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?  (Read 2136 times)

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Offline -Lox-

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1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« on: March 24, 2011, 05:07:56 PM »
Hey everybody,

I am pretty new to 40k, though I have stalked the blog scene and especially youtube for 40k stuff for a while now. My problem is that I have trouble getting in games, which would really help this learning process. I hope you can give me some advice on my list. I’ve been extremely unsuccessful with my armies in the past, and after re-working my list a few times, I came up with the list below. However, I’ve only come up with 1645 points for an 1850 point list. As I’ve had a LOT of trouble with vehicles in the past (one game with another list I spent almost the entire time trying to destroy one Baal, and just couldn’t get rid of it; this left the rest of his army free to table me. I didn’t even manage to destroy a single one of his units!), I really want something that can pump out lots of anti-tank shots. However, I also want to balance this with having as many troops choices as possible, which I've found to be immensely important. I also don’t want to play razorspam, because I don’t really think that would be much fun, and don't have the models for that anyway.

Anyway, I’ve put together 4 options to fill the remaining 205 points in my list; if you could review my list and help me figure out what would fit best (or tell me which parts of my list won’t work), I would really appreciate it. Also, if you could help me figure out what second psychic power to chose, that would be great. Thanks!

 

HQ:
Commander Dante
Terminator-SS Librarian (Unleash Rage, Blood Lance???? or Sanguine Sword????) (But would a S 10 attack at I 4 really be that valuable with 10 TH’s at I 1?)

ELITES:
10 man TH/SS Terminator Ass. Sqd
Terminator Sanguinary Priest w/ power weapon

TROOPS:
Sanguinary Guard w/ Chapter Banner
10 man Ass. Sqd. w/ x2 meltagun, PF, in rhino (w/ dozer blade)
10 man Ass. Sqd. w/ x2 meltagun, PF, in rhino (w/ dozer blade)
 

1645 pts total, leaving me 250 points to work with.


Option 1:
Tac Squad in Las/plas razorback w/ extra armor, dozer blade
Total: 200 pts
Thoughts: leave the squad in the raz, use as lascannon factory, control/contest. Rapidfire enemy units off objectives.

Option 2:
Ass. Sqd. in Las/plas razorback w/ extra armor, dozer blade
Put Extra Armor on my two rhinos
Total: 205 pts
Thoughts: leave the squad in the raz, use as lascannon factory, control/contest. Assault enemies off objectives? Not as effective as option 1, though the extra armor on the rhinos might come in handy…

Option 3:
9 man Devistator Sqd. w/ x4 missile launchers, combi-melta
Total: 204 pts
Thoughts: I really like shooty anti-tank, but they aren’t troops, can’t control objectives, vulnerable to flanking/deepstriking...

Option 4:
Predator w/ lascannon sponsons
Predator
Total: 205 pts
Thoughts: I like the anti-tank shots and the resilience of vehicles, but I’m not sure how effective this would be. Also, they aren’t troops, and vulnerable to flanking anti-tank stuff. Perhaps giving both preds heavy bolter sponsons would be more effective?

Option 5:
5 man Tac Squad w/ powerfist, teleport homer
Rhino w/ dozer blade, extra armor
Total: 200 pts
Thoughts: I can move this out with my other rhinos, and use the homer to put my terminators in the fight, keeping them from scattering. Once my termies are in, I could turn them around and hopefully grab an objective. Might not work so well for capture and control if termies take a while coming in...

If it helps to know the way I will play this list, the libby goes with the Sang Priest and the Termy squad, which deepstrikes. Dante goes with the Guard and deepstrikes behind the termies, using them for a cover save. The assault squads make their way up the board as fast as possible, though rolling through terrain to get cover saves.

I appreciate your time, and for reading all this! Thanks!
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 06:17:36 PM by -Lox- »

Offline WisdomLS

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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2011, 07:33:12 PM »
Hello and welcome to the forum  :D


I've got a few suggestions and tips, some may or may not be very useful depending on your model collection and the style of play you want to use.

Firstly a large proportion of the points of your army is going to be in reserve at the start of the game and this leaves the units you do deploy at a disadvantage as the whole enemy army is going to be firing at them.
I think you have to many points invested in your terminators, the problem is that you don't have any control over when they arrive (unlike with dantes unit) and if they turn up turn 5 you'll have probably already lost  :(
Also assault terminator just aren't very effective when deployed via deepstrike as they can't assault and everything near them will just move away.
If you want to deep stike in some terminator then try normal ones with ranged weapons or if you want to run assault terminators then stick them in a landraider. It may be the common option but it does work :)

I like dante with the unit of sang guard (they are great models) but I think you need a couple of extra bits of gear on them to make them effective.
One of dante's best abilities it to DS accurately and you can take advantage of this by sticking a couple of meltapistols in the unit. These along with dantes own pistol will give you a great chance of cracking any vehicle of your choice the turn you drop in.
Also its a good idea to give one guard a powerfist as this will allow the unit to do some damage to things like dreadnoughts and monsterous creatures that they usually have a very hard time dealing with, I like giving it the the guy with the banner as he's the one you want to keep alive the longest.

As for the extra unit i think you need some extra ranged support so I'd go with a predator or some devestators but as I said the terminator just aren't a very effective unit so you might be able to free up some points by re-jigging them a bit.

Offline Rayvn70

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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2011, 10:02:10 PM »
I like it, Dante is a beast and with the guard it's pretty murderous but it's also a fire magnet so I'd probably add a priest in there with a jump pack to give FNP and FC to pack a serious punch, I'd also drop some of those termies down to 4 with lightning claws and thunder hammer sergeant and toss in a landraider crusader give the libby unleash rage and sanguine sword and make him an epistolary and watch things die all around them, that unit will get rerolls to hit and wound and on the charge they'd be S5 I5, I never DS assault termies becuase they can't assault when they show up and they'd just be running to try and catch things but with a ride they can really hurt things.

The list I would use from yours would look something like this

HQ:
Dante 225
Librarian in Terminator Armor with Storm Shield, Epistolary, Unleash Rage, Sanguine Sword 195

Elites:
Terminator Assault Squad, Sergeant with Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield in Land Raider Crusader 455
Sanguinary Priest in Terminator Armor and power sword 85
Furioso Dreadnought with Blood Talons Magna Grapple and Heavy Flamer 150

Troops:
Sanguinary Guard with Chapter Banner 230
10 man Assault Squad with 2x Meltaguns, Powerfist and Rhino with Dozer Blade 255
10 man Assault Squad with 2x Meltaguns, Powerfist and Rhino with Dozer Blade 255

Total 1850


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Offline Partninja

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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2011, 10:41:57 PM »
Too many CC termies with no ride to be effective. Drop 5 of them. Now you could take an LRC with the 5 termies, termie priest, and power armor Libby (he has a 4++ anyway). Alternatively, you could take a storm raven (cheaper than an LRC, moves faster, and give you a lot of AT on it which you need) with your 5 termies, power armor priest and power armor libby. You may want to run a 3 hammer/2 claw setup here to get some attacks on the charge at I5. The LRC or Raven will be a distraction for your mech assault squads to get into position.

With points saved you could take two auto/las preds for ranged anti-tank. As long as you're careful the 3 scoring units you have should be fine.




Offline -Lox-

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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 12:55:13 PM »
After taking a look at some of the specific rules for the Storm Raven, I didn't see anything regarding the transport of terminators. Am I allowed to transport termintors in it? I assume that terminators would take the space of two models as usual, so I would have to drop the priest for the termies.

So after making a few adjustments, here is my current list, lemme know what you think:
HQ:
Commander Dante
Terminator-SS Librarian

ELITES:
5 Assault Terminators w/ x1 TH/SS
Furioso Dreadnought w/ blood talons

TROOPS:
Sanguinary Guard w/ x5 Infernus pistols, chapter banner, x1 powerfist
10 man Ass. Sqd. w/ x2 meltagun, PF, in rhino (w/ dozer blade)
10 man Ass. Sqd. w/ x2 meltagun, PF, in rhino (w/ dozer blade)

HVY SPRT:
Stormraven Gunship w/ TL MM
Predator w/ lascannon sponsons

1835 points, so I have 15 spare points. I might just give an assault squad sarge an infernus pistol.

Offline WisdomLS

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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 01:29:44 PM »
A much better list, looking good  :D

The only thing I'd say is a list with that many bodies really needs some Priests.

Obviously points are a little scarce but there are a couple of area's you can cut stuff.
Firstly you don't really need 5 infernus pistols on the sanguinary guard as with Dante's this is a bit overkill, you could drop 2-3 of these.

The other thing that seems a little superfluous is the librarian, he gives pychic defence and can take a couple of powers but I think a couple of preists would be more useful.

With those savings I think you might be able to get a jump pack priest to go with dante and the guard and a termy priest to go in the storm raven. If you did this I'd swap a Lightning claws over to a TH/SS.

 

Offline Partninja

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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2011, 03:04:15 PM »
I second what Wisdom has suggested. You could also drop the Furioso to get the much needed priest support.

I think the main problem now is you are trying to take two uber units. I would suggest the termies+libby, or the sang guard+ dante, but not both.

I would also suggest extra armor on the Raven. Being armor 12 you will see a lot of glances. Of which stuns are very common.

Offline -Lox-

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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2011, 03:35:00 PM »
Allright, I've done a lot more minor shuffling. First, I dropped the dozer blades on the rhinos, as that's 10 points that could go to better use. Second, I swapped the Furioso Dread for a regular Dread, and gave him a TL Heavy Flamer. Next, I (sadly) dropped all the infernus pistols from the Guard. I slapped on a priest with wings and a claw.

I really don't want to drop my libby, as I am taking preferred enemy as one of his powers.

Right now, I'm thinking that it might be more worthwhile to swap out the lascannon sponsons on my pred for a lascannon turret, saving 20 points, which I would then invest either on two infernus pistols, or extra armor for my stormraven and another TH/SS upgrade. What do you think about that? I think the sponsons might be the better deal for the points though...

As for playing this army, I think the raven should turbo boost in, and essentially make my opponent flinch. They basically walk around wrecking stuff, with the dread giving flamer support for horde control or just dealing with infantry I don't want to deal with yet. Rhinos move up, take objectives/support termies based on mission. Pred camps in the back, pinging away. Eventually, the Guard comes in, and I eat stuff up.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 03:46:32 PM by -Lox- »

Offline Rayvn70

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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2011, 04:24:21 PM »
The thing I have a problem with is the termies in a storm raven, to me it's a bad idea as you can't assault out of it if it moved flat out but Dante and his boys can using the skies of blood rule


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Offline Partninja

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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2011, 04:44:40 PM »
The thing I have a problem with is the termies in a storm raven, to me it's a bad idea as you can't assault out of it if it moved flat out but Dante and his boys can using the skies of blood rule

Incorrect. Units are not able to assault after wards as it counts as deep striking.

Allright, I've done a lot more minor shuffling. First, I dropped the dozer blades on the rhinos, as that's 10 points that could go to better use. Second, I swapped the Furioso Dread for a regular Dread, and gave him a TL Heavy Flamer. Next, I (sadly) dropped all the infernus pistols from the Guard. I slapped on a priest with wings and a claw.

I really don't want to drop my libby, as I am taking preferred enemy as one of his powers.

Right now, I'm thinking that it might be more worthwhile to swap out the lascannon sponsons on my pred for a lascannon turret, saving 20 points, which I would then invest either on two infernus pistols, or extra armor for my stormraven and another TH/SS upgrade. What do you think about that? I think the sponsons might be the better deal for the points though...

As for playing this army, I think the raven should turbo boost in, and essentially make my opponent flinch. They basically walk around wrecking stuff, with the dread giving flamer support for horde control or just dealing with infantry I don't want to deal with yet. Rhinos move up, take objectives/support termies based on mission. Pred camps in the back, pinging away. Eventually, the Guard comes in, and I eat stuff up.

I wouldn't bother with the dread at all in this case unless you made it a rifleman dread to sit in the back. MM/Hf dreads are best used in pods in my experience.

I still think you should choose between the termies or the SG at this points level. I feel it is making your list quite lacking where that 200+ points could be better spent.

Offline WisdomLS

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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2011, 06:29:43 PM »
If the priest is running with dante and the guard you really dont need to give him a claw as the rest of the squad are already decked out with powerweapons. Save the points an use them for infernus pistols.

Offline -Lox-

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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2011, 01:20:46 AM »
Initially, I planned on doing that, but, I remembered something somebody mathhammered about survivability increasing when adding a regular weapon to a squad of power weapons. The sarge with the powerfist will always take the armor save, and may end up hitting back. I'm reluctant to let a 40 point model automatically die because I didn't spend 15 points on a PW.

As for dropping the dread, your probably right. I think I was just bringing it along because I could. I'm interested in where you think I should spend the points though.

Offline Partninja

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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2011, 02:38:53 AM »
A Priest for one thing. Either for your termies or your SG. Your assault squads will want one too, though one could not fit in the rhino with them. You could take 9, with one flamer, sarg with PW and a priest with a PW. Have the two rhino squads work together and screen for the SG. I still think you should decide between the SG or the termies though.

You may want to rehash a new list so we have something fresh to work from.

Offline -Lox-

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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2011, 08:55:44 AM »
Allright. At the moment, my list is:

HQ:
Commander Dante
Terminator-SS Librarian

ELITES:
5 Assault Terminators w/ x2 TH/SS

TROOPS:
Sanguinary Guard w/ chapter banner, x1 powerfist
10 man Ass. Sqd. w/ x2 meltagun, PF, in rhino
10 man Ass. Sqd. w/ x2 meltagun, PF, in rhino

HVY SPRT:
Stormraven Gunship w/ TL MM
Predator w/ lascannon sponsons
Dreadnought w/ TL HF (though a candidate to be removed)

Offline Partninja

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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2011, 03:12:36 PM »
I would drop the dread and the termie armor on the Libby to fit a power armored priest and Libby in the raven. Take 3 hammers and 2 claws on the Termies. With FC you will attack before most things. Just keep the priest in the second row out of combat.

Offline -Lox-

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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2011, 06:18:58 PM »
Allright! Thanks for all your help guys! After a lot of thought, I decided to make space for a priest in the raven. As much as I didn't want to give up the survivability of the libby, this should help the squad as a whole. Dropping the dread and libby armor left me some points to invest in extra armor. :) Therefore, the final list:

HQ:
Commander Dante
Librarian

ELITES:
5 Assault Terminators w/ x3 TH/SS
Sanguinary Priest w/ LC, JP
Sanguinary Priest w/ LC

TROOPS:
Sanguinary Guard w/ chapter banner, x1 powerfist, x3 infernus pistols
10 man Ass. Sqd. w/ x2 meltagun, PF, in rhino (w/ extra armor)
10 man Ass. Sqd. w/ x2 meltagun, PF, in rhino (w/ extra armor)

HVY SPRT:
Stormraven Gunship w/ TL MM, extra armor
Predator w/ lascannon sponsons

And five points to spare. Thanks again for all your help!

Offline Partninja

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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2011, 09:38:37 PM »
I prefer PWs over single LCs. You get an extra attack for two cc weapons with the postol+PW. This gives the possibility of more wounds.

Offline Rayvn70

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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2011, 10:00:04 PM »
I prefer PWs over single LCs. You get an extra attack for two cc weapons with the postol+PW. This gives the possibility of more wounds.

I agree, though you lose the reroll to wound but you get more attacks  and at Str 5 on the charge that would make up for it


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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #18 on: April 1, 2011, 05:50:26 PM »
I forget the mathhammer, but IIRC the average amount of wounds when comparing the two is about equal. However with the PW+pistol you still can get those lucky rolls and get that extra wound. At S5 you'll wound most things on 3s so I'd take those chances.

Offline WisdomLS

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Re: 1850 Blood Angels Army: which unit should I choose?
« Reply #19 on: April 2, 2011, 04:45:41 AM »
The priest with the libby should definitely have a sword and pisyol as the libby will most likely have the preferred enemy power and more attack is much better with re-rolls.

 


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