Topic: Taktika: Battlewagonz

[Saracenar]

Ah the Battlewagon. My favourite Ork vehicle. And, I'm sure, a favourite of many other Warbosses out there.

They can be used in a variety of ways, whether as fire support tanks belching out ordnance and all manner of other projectiles, or speedy open-topped transports for da Boyz, or da Nobz, in my case. Battlewagons are useful indeed.

So, we'll start by looking at what we get for our base amount of points. Good, tuff armour at the front, usually quite hard to penetrate. Moderate armour on the sides, probably best left unexposed for as long as possible. And at the back, the easy weakness of the tank. Same armour as a Trukk; not something we want the enemy ever seeing. On top of this, it's open-topped. Good for letting us assault after disembarking, which I use to my advantage all the time. Not so good for protection, because as we know, open-topped vehicles are more easily destroyed. And finally, the transport capacity. 20 whole Orks (10 if in Mega Armour). The largest transport capacity in the game, discounting apocalypse? I like. No shooting capabilities, yet.

I'd say, for the price it is, it's worth it. Now, let's take a look at what is available to the tank.

First, we'll check out the offensive options.

Boarding Plank: Only useful while you have passengers embarked, and even then one of them needs to be armed for anti-armour in CC. Recommended when transporting units with Power Klaws, Tank Hammers or Big Choppas, but still optional, not a must have item. A disadvantage of the Boarding Plank is its very short range. If you plan on getting close enough to use it on enemy vehicles, you might be exposing your weaker armour to other elements of the opposing force, which could prove fatal. I personally don't use them because I'd rather just use my Deff Rolla (see below)!

Deff Rolla: A handy piece of tech if you're facing more vehicles than your ranged support can handle. Thanks to the latest FAQ, we now know for sure that Ramming is a special type of Tank Shock, so we can use our Rollas on other vehicles. Deliciously destructive possibilities, if you ask me. The Battlewagon can serve as a decent form of anti-armour, if you can get it close enough. It's even capable of squashing Land Raiders. It's effect on infantry is less than optimal, as it doesn't ignore armour saves, but can potentially inflict instant death on many models. It also allows you to re-roll dangerous terrain tests, and that can be very handy at important times. I always take it on my wagon, and think it is definitely a worthwhile upgrade.

Wreckin' Ball: This is another short ranged anti-tank option fitted somewhere on the vehicle. While this one does not require that the vehicle be occupied with someone carrying some sort of strength boosting weapon, it still requires a to-hit roll that will see it hitting 50% of the time. The hit it inflicts is powerful enough to have a decent chance of damaging AV13, with less of a chance against AV14 (still better than a Rokkit though). Again, I use the Deff Rolla for anti-armour on my Battlewagon, so see no need for this option. Still, it is a cheaper alternative, but you get what you pay for.

Big Shoota: A classic Ork weapon, the Big Shoota is cheap and offers a decent volume of fire at a good strength. Sadly though, the Battlewagon is crewed by inaccurate Orks, so one or two, if for the purpose of inflicting damage, are really not worth it. Fortunately, you can have up to four, and more shots = more hits. The next problem however, is that, with the strength value they have, they are classified as main weapons, so you can't move and shoot with them all, only one, which means if you want to move your Battlewagon, forget about taking Big Shootas if you want to hurt somebody with it. I find that their best purpose is to soak up Weapon Destroyed results, and protect the wagon from being destroyed too easily from multiple glancing hits. I always have two Big Shootas, for this purpose alone. I rarely fire them at all, but am very happy to take them away instead of becoming immobilised.

Rokkit Launcha: Double the points of a Big Shoota, for a one-shot (per turn) weapon. Not really what I'd call value for money. At Ork ballistic skill, they frankly aren't worth it unless you're planning on buying four (more shots = more hits) and sitting still for the whole game, as again, they are main weapons. I would never take them on my Battlewagon, if I used it for shooting.

Kannon: Yes, Battlewagons can take a single Big Gun of your choice. The Kannon is the cheapest of the options and can be used as a defensive weapon if you fire the frag round. This somewhat nullifies the Orks' terrible ballistic skill and allows you to fire on the move, in addition to a main weapon. Alternatively, you can fire it as a long range Rokkit, so you have a bit of freedom with how you can use it. It also costs the same as a Rokkit Launcha, but does more, so always take this before you take a Rokkit Launcha, if you plan to take one (or many). The Kannon is my favourite Big Gun, but as I usually take a Big Gunz Battery in my army, to utilise the BS of the Gretchin Krew, I don't bother putting it on my wagon (that and, I don't take my Battlewagon for the guns it can take.

Lobba: Another of the Big Gunz available to the Battlewagon, this is a main weapon that doesn't so  much rely on Ork BS as the Zzap Gun or Kannon Krak shell does. This is a barrage weapon, so has the potential to ignore armour saves, and doesn't require line of sight to fire (but scatters even worse than it would normally). 5pts more than the Kannon, I don't really think its worth it.

Zzap Gun: The Zzap Gun is the last of the Big Gunz. It is unpredictable in terms of its strength, which is randomly determined each time you fire it. An upside is that it can't harm the wagon when you roll too high for strength, but the down side is - yep, you guessed it - Ork BS. This weapon as the potential to do well, but I wouldn't want to have to rely on it. On average, 2D6 will roll for a total of 7. So you'd better off taking the Kannon, in my opinion, for a good, solid weapon that provides you with options.

Killkannon: Now we're getting to the good stuff. Not as good as the Looted Wagon's Boomgun, but still powerful (easily capable of annihilating infantry who stray from cover), and mounted on a more durable platform. Also has the potential to be effective against lightly armoured vehicles, thanks in part to its Ordnance characteristic. But again, it suffers from Ork BS, which isn't too bad because its a blast weapon. If you're looking for something to blast apart heavy infantry I'd suggest taking the Looted Wagon with a Boomgun instead, but this can still have decent impact, and is more durable. The Killkannon is a solid option for a shooty tank, fairly reasonably priced. However, it does reduce the transport capacity from 20 to 12. Although if you have this weapon you won't be able to move over 6" and fire it, so you probably won't be using it as a transport anyway. It still houses a full squad of Nobz, though. Just remember that the Killkannon cannot be taken on a Battlewagon that is a dedicated transport.

Now for the defensive options.

'Ard Case: This option provides mixed 'bonuses' to your vehicle. On one hand, it makes it no longer open-topped, so it will be harder to destroy. But losing open-topped means that you can't get out from just anywhere (particularly the front, if you're like me), AND, you can't assault after disembarking! That's a big disadvantage if you're transporting a unit. However, this upgrade is good if you aren't using the wagon for a transport, but for shooting.

Armour Plates: Extra armour is always a good thing to have. If you're transporting models, definitely consider this upgrade. Why? Because, if you're transporting models, chances are you'll want to be moving, as much as possible. And this upgrade makes sure you're always moving...most of the time. I'll always recommend it on transport vehicles, but it comes down to what sort of anti-armour you're up against. Not so important on shooty tanks.

Reinforced Ram: It sounds offensive but it's really defensive. If you're not taking a Deff Rolla, you might want to look into this. For just a quarter of the price, you're almost definitely protected from unlucky dangerous terrain rolls. It's other benefits are wasted, however.

And finally, the other options.

Grot Riggers: I always take these little guys on my wagon, purely because I don't want an unlucky roll to see it stuck in place for multiple turns. For such a small price, it can bring the Battlewagon back to usefulness as a transport, and, as that is the primary role I have for it, I find it very important to keep it rolling. Granted, it might not ever work for an entire game, but when it does, you'll be glad you paid for it. A good, cheap, insurance option.

Stikkbomb Chukka: Fairly simple. If you're transporting Boyz, don't worry about it. Their initiative is usually too low to make a difference anyway. But, if you're transporting Nobz, this upgrade does become useful. I only ever disembark from my Battlewagon if I'm about to charge, so I would always utilise the Chukka. I don't bother taking it though, because I like my wagon to be as cheap as possible, and don't find that I am often assaulting into cover with my Nobz, who just about always ride in it.

Red Paint Job: Da red wunz go fasta! It's true! It used to be cheaper in the old codex, but even with a 2pt increase, that extra 1" of movement could make or break the game. Again, I don't bother with this upgrade, for cheapness' sake, but I would definitely say that it could be useful. There are some issues that arise with the RPJ, but its better that they aren't gone into, and doesn't impact greatly on the use of the vehicle.

So that's the options covered. Let's talk tactics. This is a tactica after all.

As I mentioned earlier, there are a few uses for a Battlewagon, the most prominent of these being transport and shooting. I use my wagon for transport. But that's not to say a shooty wagon won't pack a punch. Let's have a look at some example set ups:

My Setup (Transport):
Battlewagon
- Deff Rolla
- Big Shoota (x2)
- Armour Plates
- Grot Riggers
Total: 135pts.

A pretty cheap vehicle here, with protection against Stunned, Weapon Destroyed and Immobilised results. That only leaves Shaken (which isn't a problem, as I never shoot with it), Wrecked, and Explodes! So half of the results are harmless, while only 2/3 of the other half are permanently bad. I always take this Battlewagon in games of over 1k, for my 7 man Nobz mob. Sometimes I'll take it in 1k too. I find it almost always gets the Nobz where they need to go, and manages to intimidate the enemy. Of course, there are other variations you can take, to make it even cheaper, by replacing the Rolla with a Ram and ditching a Big Shoota, but I think this is close to the optimal set up for a Battlewagon acting as a transport.

When using it, I always make sure the front armour is facing the majority (if not all of) my enemy's anti-tank. While they try to take it out, it takes the heat off my other vehicles, like my Boomwagon or Deff Dread. I have taken to leaving it in reserves in some games, to better protect it from anti-tank, and (hopefully) have it roll on in time to counter charge any approaching enemies (as I did against a unit of Thunderwolves, worked out alright...).

So who can/should ride in a Battlewagon? As I mentioned earlier, I usually put my Nobz in there, accompanied by my Warboss. They are certainly a good option, if you choose not to give them bikes. Alternatively you could throw in a squad of 20 Boyz. The Battlewagon provides good protection for them and allows them to assault after disembarking. 20 Boyz on the charge is pretty powerful. Being an open-topped vehicle, it could also transport Burna Boyz, who can stack their templates from any part of the vehicle's hull. Mega Nobz could also utilise the transport, which has enough space to hold a full squad of ten; the only transport able to do so. Tankbustas or Flash Gitz could also hitch a ride, but seeing as they are primarily shooty, the Wagon would have to move slower to allow them to do so.

Let's take a look at a shooty wagon now.

Battlewagon
- Killkannon
- 'Ard Case
- Armour Plates
Total: 175pts.

A little more expensive, but the Killkannon can more than pay for itself if you use it right. Remember, its ordnance, so it has a decent chance of penetrating armour between 10 and 12, and will keep MEQs with their heads down if they know what's good for them. The 'Ard Case makes the wagon more durable, and the Armour Plates will allow it to keep moving if it gets Stunned (so it can get away from whatever stunned it, if possible, or Tank Shock). You could throw on a Kannon, just so that if a Weapon Destroyed result comes up, your tank doesn't become useless, and as has already been discussed, the Kannon is probably the next best gun you could have. Try and sit the wagon back a little, so that it is just within range of its target (allowing for scatter, of course), with the front armour facing whatever anti-tank the enemy has. Then blast away.

So we've looked at the bare bones of the Battlewagon, gone over the options available to it, and looked at a couple of example builds. There are so many more you could toy with, but I feel these are probably the two most effective set ups. But that's just me.

So, how'd I do? Was it worth reading? I hope you learned something reading this, this large huge block of text. With any luck it'll help someone out there deciding how to build their Battlewagon.

Thanks for reading.

[SKEETERGOD]

Excellent tactica, a good read.

On a side note; the death roller transport is exactly how I use mine. For the gun wagon, I put my flash gits in there so that one stays open topped so that they all can shoot from the moving pill box.

A great piece, I highly suggest you submit it for an article and then drop Angel of Death 007 a PM and see if he can get a mod to move this to the ork bootcamp.

Oi, and 2 more teef for you.

[angel of death 007]

A very well wrote article.  Any time you get a big model like that it is always good for people to know how to equip them properly. 

[Saracenar]

Thanks guys, I'm glad you liked it.

On the note of suggesting it for an article, how abouts do I go about that?

[DropFall]

Killkannon cant be taken on a dedicated transport Battlewagon.

As for the Killwagons setup it should be a Killkannon, & a BS. If I was gonna take more it would be a Deff Rolla first, then armour plates. With the Killkannons 24" range you're gonna be close to your enemy, and you can get closer whilst shooting and delivering a second wave attack unit the Deff Rolla just makes sense like it does on all other Battlewagons.

[Saracenar]

Ah yes, good you pointed that out. So max 3 Killkannons. I'll fix that up.

Well, one could say that comes down to personal preference. I'd rather take the 'Ard Case over anything else, because I've often learnt that the +1 to the damage roll is usually what Wrecks my wagon, and I'd do anything to avoid it. Especially when an Immobilised result would have little effect on the wagon, because it is shooting. 24" can actually be a fair distance, I've come to realise. What with most armies now trying to get into close combat with at least something (save for at least, Guard and Tau, sometimes Necrons), you don't need too much range on a weapon like the Killkannon.

Yes, yours is cheaper, and sometimes less is more, but I'd rather have the added protection. Again, its personal preference though.

[Azonalanthious]

I disagree with the armour plate section, by the by.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think its a BAD upgrade and I'll never give someone a hard time for taking it.  But its not as mandatory as you are making it sound.  I have, literally, never taken plate on any ork vehicle I've ever run.  And I can think of exactly one time where the stunned instead of shaken actually made a noticeable difference in the game.  I'm sure there are other times that I'm forgetting, but my point is that it doesn't come up so often that I feel its truly a vital upgrade.  Grot riggers also fall into this category for me, except that I can literally NEVER think of a time where I would have used them other then on deffdreads (where I do take them).

[Saracenar]

Well, we are talking about dice rolls here. My Battlewagon gets Stunned at least almost once every game I play. So I've come to always take Armour Plates on it.

I suppose, if you have other vehicles in your army (say 2 + the Battlewagon) it might not be as important because less anti-tank would be directed at it (unless the enemy decides to concentrate their fire), and so the protection Armour Plates provide might not be so necessary as if you had less vehicles. But I don't like to just have my tank sitting there doing nothing, when it can be avoided for a relatively cheap price. Especially early on in the game, when movement is vital.

The Grot Riggers I never said came into use very often, but I said, when they did come into use, you'd be happy you took them. 5pts really isn't that much to pay, for what they can do.

[the_humble_terminator]

Well, we are talking about dice rolls here. My Battlewagon gets Stunned at least almost once every game I play. So I've come to always take Armour Plates on it.

I suppose, if you have other vehicles in your army (say 2 + the Battlewagon) it might not be as important because less anti-tank would be directed at it (unless the enemy decides to concentrate their fire), and so the protection Armour Plates provide might not be so necessary as if you had less vehicles. But I don't like to just have my tank sitting there doing nothing, when it can be avoided for a relatively cheap price. Especially early on in the game, when movement is vital.

The Grot Riggers I never said came into use very often, but I said, when they did come into use, you'd be happy you took them. 5pts really isn't that much to pay, for what they can do.

I agree with every point made in this post, so I'll just ditto that.

[Azonalanthious]

Well, we are talking about dice rolls here. My Battlewagon gets Stunned at least almost once every game I play. So I've come to always take Armour Plates on it.

I suppose, if you have other vehicles in your army (say 2 + the Battlewagon) it might not be as important because less anti-tank would be directed at it (unless the enemy decides to concentrate their fire), and so the protection Armour Plates provide might not be so necessary as if you had less vehicles. But I don't like to just have my tank sitting there doing nothing, when it can be avoided for a relatively cheap price. Especially early on in the game, when movement is vital.

The Grot Riggers I never said came into use very often, but I said, when they did come into use, you'd be happy you took them. 5pts really isn't that much to pay, for what they can do.

Oh, agreed on the riggers, no issues at all with that part of the tactica.  Just saying that riggers and plates are in the same category in my mind.

With the battlewagons, part of it might be my local gaming situations.  But when my battlewagons are truly getting shot, its generally by multiple meltas at point blank range as they are pounding down to squish things.  Which means the double dice so usually pens, +1 from AP 1, +1 from open topped, so rolling a 2 isn't even possible on a pen. :/  So that might be part of where I'm coming from.

But, sure, I still face the odd missile launcher or las cannon, but usually no more then 2 or 3 a round on a given wagon and I generally have a kff going.  So 1/6 to 2/6 change of glancing/penatrating the armor, (even assuming everything hits, so one glance/pen every 2 rounds or so), half those saved from the kff, so now once every 4 rounds, and then only a 1 in 6 chance of getting stunned, so now we are up to one in ever 24 rounds or roughly one every 4/5 games.  And even that one doesn't always matter, depending on where my battle wagon is when it gets stunned -- its often close enough that I can just hop out and still reach charge range, since if the vehicle doesn't move, you can disembark 2", move 6", and assault 6" for a 14" range from the wagon even without waaaghing.  In fact, generally speaking, unless its on turn 1 or (only sometimes) turn 2, I can do that.

So like I said, I don't think its mandatory.  I understand the logic of taking it and won't argue with those who want it.  But I really don't think its as vital as you made it sound.

[Saracenar]

I guess it just comes down to the types of army compositions you come up against, too. Fortunately in my area not many people use Melta guns, and I'm happy not to recommend them, if it means my tank will live longer. I tend to see more Lascannons, mainly.

I'll edit the Armour Plates entry a little bit.

[Jack_Merridew]

was there a mention of how wonderful it is to have a burna big mek and some burnas in a battle wagon with a deff rolla?  I know skeet is a fan.  Ram them pop thier armor and then burna them to bits during the shooting phase.  With the 4+ from the kff on the big mek the battle wagons tend to make it across in one piece.  It also devalues some of the defensive upgrades as they seem less mandatory when there is a 50% chance that things will miss. 

Also, If you are running 2+ wagons, your tactics will vary greatly than if you are running 1-2 wagons.  With fewer wagons, you are more likely using it as a quick dump for massive troops.  If that's the case, you will be more likely to get the rpj, and armor plates.  You want to get across regardless of shooting and deploy.  Anything else is gravy.  My troop transport wagons are deff rolla, rpj, plates and that's it.

For larger point games when I have multiple wagons, I tend to keep 1-2 wagons as fast attack troop transports just like the previous paragraph, but I like to keep one of them as a "command" wagon, that stays back and does more utility work.  I've gone with 4 rokkits and the kannon as a loadout once, along with a squad of lootas inside.  I've gone killkannon only before and used it to help out my boomwagons. 

As far as tactics go, an IG player taught me that you have to keep covering fire to support your troops.  So if I have two boomwagons and a killkannon battlewagon,  I keep them in the shape of a triangle on the board.  That way if somebody droppods sternguard with meltas or snikrots or whatever one of my tanks, the other two can drop the ordinance and protect themselves.  I also would like to point out that I will put the KFF mek in a killkannon wagon in the middle so that the 6" range on his kff has the most range as the bwagon is the largest ork vehicle.  This allows for a larger triangle to keep enemy units from sweeping through. 

Don't be afraid to just have stripped down deff rolla wagons.  At 120 points, you can get a deff rolla, rpj, and plates.  That gives you a wagon that can travel 13" per turn and sweep into enemy lines.  The plates let it keep moving forward barring imobilized and up, and since it's not a shooting weapon it's during the movement phase, you can still tank shokk if your are shaken.  d6 str 10 shots will be a concern for your opponent and he will have to deal with it.  With AV 14 front, that's no easy feat.  Most army's, (other than IG) rely on drop podding behind vehicles or some other dirty trick to kill av 14.  And if you have 2 such suicide wagons barreling right at your opponent it will dictate how he plays his turns.  Throw in some trucks behind them full of boyz, or nob bikers on the flank and you start making his decisions very tough.  Remember, it's not what you know they can do, it's what your opponent fears they will do.

The wagons are easily the greatest unit in our codex.  They can be modified to fit in any role supportive, offensive, or defensive.  As it is such a large vehicle don't be afraid to use it as cover.  Park one between two pieces of terrain and use it as a wall to move your boyz across a kill zone.  Most kill zones are set for anti infantry not anti armor, so if you have a wagon running bodyguard he should do alright.   

Having problems with horde armies?  Send in the wagon with the kannon and kill kannon.  As he speeds around (7") drop frag kannon shells on them.  When you get in range drop the big kill kannon shell.  You could even forgo any shooting and just load up with burnas and watch the vapor trail of ash as you singe your way through the gaunt lines. 

As for boarding planks, I have to disagree.  If you have 5pts to spend pick it up.  You are playing orks.  Any unit that you will be toting around in a battlewagon accept burnas (and even then they might have a mek with one) should have a pk in it.  A lot of players will park thier precious vehicles close to one another.  Ram one with the rolla, and during the assault phase, plank the other.   

The grabbin klaw is also useful against tau and eldar.  Thier skimmers can avoid being tank shocked, so the def rolla is less effective.  I tend to instead equip the grabbin klaw and plank in these cases.  Move right up next to them like you would to def rolla them, but stop short.  Then hope the klaw catches, and then on the next turn when your nob's pk's autohit a vehicle that didn't move you will smile and he will cry.

Skeet loves to put flash gitz in them.  I love to put any unit that has a purpose.  Orks have a t-shirt save that just begs to be ripped open.  But our elites tend to get pricey so we want them to survive a little longer.  Footsloggin burnas is just insane.  I've already mentioned in the forum how you can use a battlewagon to block LOS so that your tankbustas can fire at whatever unit you want them to shoot.  Lootas sitting in the back, 15 strong parked in a KFF mek'd battlewagon will take some serious firepower to bring down. 

Again it is the biggest model (stompa excluding) so it can block LOS on anything else in the codex.  Your trucks, buggies, rokkit koptas, dreds, kans, you name it the wagon is ready willing and able to get them to thier destination unharmed.

I guess that I should mention that I never leave home without at least 3 of these guys....but I digress...lol

[Saracenar]

I haven't had much experience with using a great deal of vehicles, as I've usually only had between 1-3 in any of the armies I've ever played, and never had more than 2000pts for an army. So I guess my tactica focuses more on using smaller numbers of vehicles. But your input based on your experience with larger numbers of vehicles looks very good, Jack. I can see you put a lot of effort into that post; perhaps I could borrow some of it if this becomes an article?

[SKEETERGOD]

Talking about blocking line of sight, a sneaky git trick it to use a BW to transport your tank bustas, and when you have something else besides a tank shot at, have the tank bustas get out of the BW so that the BW blocks the line of sight to the out of range tank and then the glory hounds don't have to shoot the tank they can't see and instead get to light up the enemy unit of your choice.

I also use up a heavy slot for the kill kannon BW that is also the ride for my flash gits. Since both weapons have the same range, the flash gits "choose" thier target and shoot, then I know what is in range for the kill kannon.

Lastly the burna wagon. The death roller 135 point wagon, with 15 burna boys and a big mek with KFF and a burna riding in it has proven many times to be a very effective weapon. It is to the point that at my local most of my regular opponents will ask which one is the burna wagon, as that is the one they want to kill first. If you read my burna boy tactica (now located in the bootcamp) you will see mention of this.

So, three more items for you, just something for you to touch on if you wish.

[Chaos40kAD]

I just got my first Battlewagon last night   I'm excited to assemble it and model some of these options     Great thread!!

-Brett

[Jack_Merridew]

I'm not kult of speed by any means, but it's the kult of the wagon!  I love boomwagons and battle wagons.  I run them non stop.  Soon you will too.

[SKEETERGOD]

I just got my first Battlewagon last night   I'm excited to assemble it and model some of these options     Great thread!!

-Brett

Congrats, that is a good model. A small piece of advice, only glue the main body together. The ram and ard case and turrets etc do not glue on, leave them loose as you WILL be changing them as you experiment and do double duty with them.

Don't forget the upgrade sprue so you can get the death roller. The one from forge world doesn't fit the new BW without some serious alteration, so it is easier just to get the upgrade sprue. Can't wait to see pictures.