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Author Topic: Why is LOTR/WOTR so unpopular?  (Read 6815 times)

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Offline Starstrider3

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Re: Why is LOTR/WOTR so unpopular?
« Reply #20 on: August 9, 2011, 03:17:36 PM »
Brutoni, i'm actually rather glad you've breathed some life back into this old thread. I'm also rather surprised no mod has shut this down but I'm definitely not complaining. You make fantastic points in your posts and it's really nice to know there are people out there who still love and play the system.

Sure the story has ended and LOTR 'fever' is a thing of the past but how many times to you hear or read stories and think 'What If?' Like you said, although I haven't read much of the appendices or many of his other books, Tolkein provides plenty of other tales and inspiration for your own campaigns besides the War of the Ring that are great fun to explore. I'm looking forward to the 2 Hobbit movies not just for the sake of more Rings and hopefully good films, but so the systems can get a very welcome boost.

Oh, I just want to add to those who say it's a waste of shelf-space, no body plays it, etc. You do realise GW still runs tournaments for these systems, right?
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Offline Malfush

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Re: Why is LOTR/WOTR so unpopular?
« Reply #21 on: August 9, 2011, 03:32:07 PM »
I love WotR, it's just too bad that the only other person I know who likes/wants to play it is now deployed to South Korea. /sadface

I have a Galadhrim elf army, and it's done pretty well against the EVILS of Isengard.

I wish more people would get into it.

Offline spotaflint33

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Re: Why is LOTR/WOTR so unpopular?
« Reply #22 on: August 9, 2011, 04:11:55 PM »
In reference to the post quoting me, I do have hobby time every week (mainly Thurs-Sun due to custody arrangements), it is just play time is a rarity (once a month or so) and I have vastly more time to build/paint.  I also do all three main systems among other things (that can be more costly) so its kind of divide and conquor.  I just haven't done LOTR stuff in a long while due to my models being at my parent's house still.

Offline Faeluchu

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Re: Why is LOTR/WOTR so unpopular?
« Reply #23 on: August 9, 2011, 04:35:24 PM »
I'd say that LotR has at least similar story possibilities to 40k or FB: last year there was this big campaign in WD (I think it was called "Blood and Sand") about a Gondor incursions to reclaim Umbar; apart from that there are about as many possible scenarios as you can imagine, from "what if...?"s based on the book itself to making your own Middle-Earth from Mighty Empires tiles and fighting for dominance. Tolkien left enough unexplored places, unused names and possible twists for thousands of games: you may build an army based on prince Imrahil's son, Amrothos, and get him to fight Haradrims in the south or even help in reclaiming Arnor; you can model your 2nd Era Gondorians and represent the fightings between Arthedain, Cardolan and Rhudaur after Eärendur's death and so on - the possibilities are nigh infinite, whether you're looking for scenarios (about 11500 years all three Ages, not counting Fourth ["current"] - trust me, there were plenty of battles), modelling possibilities (from the frozen wastes of Forodwaith to deserts of Harad, with many a forest, lake, hill, mountain and such in between) or painting opportunities (in Gondor alone you have over 10 different provinces, each with it's own leaders and colours) ; and if that's not enough you can always take advantage of various white spots left in the lore to create your own army/ fortress/ battlefield.

As you see, the problem here is not with the fluff or that it's in any way "ended" - if you like the universe enough you'll come up with several original scenarios in a moment - but rather with factors like lack of time (after all it's a pretty young system and a majority of players already had their armies when it came out), the size of models or other mini problems (although it wasn't an issue for me... I actually enjoyed seeing a bit sleeker swords than in FB) and lack of bigger support from GW. Let's face it, the last time LotR received any major update was when WotR was coming out about a year ago and since then GW has been churning new armies and codexes [or is it 'codices'?]for 40k/FB  on a monthly basis. LotR players don't get any modelling workshop articles to show them for example how to build Mordor walls or elvish ships, to show new ways of painting Army of Dead et cetera. LotR players can easily develop a feeling of being unwanted - the "no new codex" blues; I'm a bit sorry for my Gondorians when I see all those new Vampire Counts/Storm of Magic/Tomb Kings/insert_current_WD_theme_army rulebooks and models - and I personally feel that's why there are so few of them.

TL;DR version: GW should buckle up and show LotR players some more love - for God's sake, you can still make much money off us! ;-)
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Offline Brutoni

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Re: Why is LOTR/WOTR so unpopular?
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2011, 04:35:34 AM »
Faeluchu,

Indeed, your comments are quite pertinent. The last major update for me in LotR was when the Galadhrim hosts got official rules for the LotR SBG. That was a happy day!!

That said, there is usually an article or two in the White dwarf and this month DID have an article on using cavalry in the SBG. BEST of all it seems that the article is one of a series covering each major unit type. So hopefully we will see another article on Infantry, Archers, Monsters, Heroes and Maybe siege engines!!

Funnily enough the article, while pointing out pretty obvious tactics for the most part, has pushed me to get painting my 12 Galadhrim Knights again!!

@ Spotalint33;

Thats good to hear that you get some time :). I wasn't having a dig in anyway at you... Real life issues should always come before play!!

Offline Darsenko

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Re: Why is LOTR/WOTR so unpopular?
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2011, 04:56:39 AM »
Hey, you know, after reading this, I might actually try LotR, even if it's just me playing against myself with some 40k minis. Now, I wonder if there is a place to find the basic rules online....

Offline Starstrider3

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Re: Why is LOTR/WOTR so unpopular?
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2011, 06:09:09 AM »
Don't forget about the Battlehosts Expansion of WOTR. That book featured plenty of new ways to build your army and lots of different colour schemes. Several of the Battlehosts were practically crying out for scenarios to be designed around them. Gondor and Angmar were especially interesting, even to a player like me who plays neither of them.
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Offline Rip of Zahr-Tann

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Re: Why is LOTR/WOTR so unpopular?
« Reply #27 on: December 2, 2012, 02:59:22 PM »
I enjoyed the film trilogy and have enjoyed reading The Hobbit.  I'm fully familiar with the background and the setting behind the games.  The fact is, I just can't get excited about the games and because I am actually interested in 40k and WFB, I can't be doing with the amount of space they get in WD every month, even though I understand why.  I mean, this month's issue seemed to be nothing but a Hobbit-fest.
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Offline starstrider

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Re: Why is LOTR/WOTR so unpopular?
« Reply #28 on: December 2, 2012, 05:06:10 PM »
It's a self-cycling problem sort of. I think.

I loved the hobbit and the LOTR reading them as a kid (and again when I was older). I found Tolkiens other stuff a bit harder to follow, but still enjoyed reading through much of it. I loved the movies too, and ended up seeing all of them at least twice in theaters before buying the fancy DVD boxed sets. I'd even buy the blu-ray set now, but I'm just really reluctant to after all I've shelled out on the DVDs. I still might get it at some point though, if it goes down ten dollars or something.

Anyways, I like the setting. I think the question to ask is why would I play the game though?

To get a chance to "live" in that setting? That's fair enough. I'm not as imaginative now as I used to be when I was younger though, and have a harder time "living" in imaginary or represented settings. I think the real question is why do I play 40k? It's not my favorite wargame.... it's not even my favorite genre, I'd probably prefer a more strictly accurate historical wargame in the Napoleonic era by a great deal. The only real reason I play 40k is that I can go to my GW and find people to play it with, when none of the other people I know play wargames of any type. I can't go to my local GW and find people playing LOTR. At least, I very rarely can find that.

It used to be a more common sight when the film came out, but even then it smelled of "we'll support this until it's not popular, and then table it" to me. Now, you guys can talk about the support WOTR is getting all you want, but I find it very hard to believe it's getting equal support a year ago to that it was getting during the film's release. Even if it was getting magazine articles, it certainly wasn't being "pushed" in store. Not at any of my two GW's, at least. Is it getting tournament support? I don't know how much, but apparently so. My Napoleonic wargames are getting tournaments too, but nonetheless good luck to me finding people I could regularly play with. I feel like fans of the system are somewhat confusing maintenance/existence with support.

Regarding articles and such, I say a year ago because, presently, we're close enough to the hobbit's release date that it makes sense for them to again be pushing WoTR/Hobbit articles for their new game and new set of minis. A set that I suspect will end up getting largely tabled as well.

All this aside, the biggest reason I never gave the game a chance at release is that it quite strongly felt like GW was just latching onto something popular to make money. This isn't a GW corporate greed thread, but I feel the company has changed pretty broadly from it's original foundations. Those changes have seemingly made it a much more successful company, in terms of income and following at least - which I suppose is how you'd measure corporate successes - but a lot of GW's mainstreaming wasn't entirely welcomed by everyone. The production of a game designed just to draw in crowds from a popular movie seemed like a really exacerbated form of this. It irritated me enough that I never really would have given the game a fair shake on its own merits.

Offline Prophecy

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Re: Why is LOTR/WOTR so unpopular?
« Reply #29 on: December 2, 2012, 05:31:26 PM »
I believe starstrider has some excellent points. It really felt jimmy rigged when the game came into existence like it was forced into things rather than belonging. I played for a year when the game was released but found it to be boring and very unbalanced. When it originally came into being the prices were fair and getting your friends to try it out wasn't so bad. Now that I look at it I can't believe how expensive it is. The new hobbit stuff is WAY overpriced and just doesn't come to close to grabbing me.

It is one of the only games I don't regret selling because I was lucky enough to get a good price. Personally, I think it has the poorest resale value and one of the highest to get into. There really isn't many pros to playing the game. Even when I did actively play I hated seeing articles for it in WD because I kept thinking about how many more other products could have taken that many pages for something actually interesting.

I find bloodbowl to just be a superior game. It is fun, random, and there are tons of 3rd party interpretations of the models to latch onto and try. If I have to play a specialist game it just isn't going to be LOTR ever again.

Offline Bobby P

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Re: Why is LOTR/WOTR so unpopular?
« Reply #30 on: December 2, 2012, 08:02:32 PM »
Whilst the system may have merits, i cant believe people actually thought that the game was going to be around after the hype from the films wore off. As Starstrider said GW created the game to ride the LOTR hype and then dropped it when that hype died down. I truly feel for the people who " invested " money into this system
« Last Edit: December 2, 2012, 08:12:42 PM by Bobby P »

Offline Lachdonin

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Re: Why is LOTR/WOTR so unpopular?
« Reply #31 on: December 2, 2012, 08:10:56 PM »
I played LoTR, and WoTR, and honestly ahve tried my darndest to get into them, game wise. A friend an i went splits on the starter set for LoTR, played a few games, and stopped. WoTR came out, we got some more units to round out actual armies, played a few games, and stopped.

It just lacks the excitement and the cinema of Fantasy and 40k. It may be because all the characters, deeds and personas are already developed, or it may be that the fimls have stripped the imagination from the game, but for me theres just no oomph to it. It's dull.
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