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Extra Armour. Worth it? If so where.

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Extra Armour. Worth it? If so where.
« on: December 3, 2010, 01:34:43 PM »
 

WisdomLS

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I've never been a fan of extra armour but I often see people stick it on all their vehicles as a matter of course. I'd like to know why so many people take them as these are my thoughts on them.
 
I generally think that a power weapon, melta pistol or other such equipment is more useful for the points.
It only helps one in six time after you suffer a damaging hit so just doesn't seem very effective.
People often compare them to eldar spirit stones which are nearly always taken on their tanks and do the same thing but the stones are cheaper and when combined with holo fields are twice as effective
I've only ever taken them ona landraider because they seem a bit more important on such an expensive transport but taking them on rhino's seems excessive as they cost just under half what you pay for the vehicle.

Please let me know whether you agree with me or think I'm a raving lunatic for my heretical veiws, and more importantly why :)
« Last Edit: December 3, 2010, 04:38:56 PM by WisdomLS »
 

Re: Extra Armour. Worth it? If so where.
« Reply #1 on: December 3, 2010, 01:49:58 PM »
 

dalaran1991

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Exrtra armor definitely. This is most important on transport such as rhinos or razorbacks which need to keep moving. Although the transports are cheap, the guys they carry are not. 2 marines cost almost as much as a rhino and 3 cost more than a razorback. With a marine you can buy one extra armor. Would you leave your whole squad at risk of becoming sitting ducks because you are not willing to pay the extra price? Stranded marines = half-dead marines.

Being stunned is actually much more common than you think, due to the new glancing rules. With so many autocannons and missile launcher out there, chances are you will be getting a lot of glancing hits and getting stunned is pretty common. I got stunned every turn fighting IG, and I don't know what I would do without my extra armor.

It's also as important on other vehicles. Being stunned means you will be easier to hit in cc and the vehicle cease to be a threat. With EA you can redeploy or tank shock people.

It's mandatory on drop podding dreads. EA allows them to get into combat and smash stuff and not getting shot at.

Think of it as a powerfist/powerweapon on tactical sarges. How often do you throw your tacticals into melee? No? How often do they get charged? A lot. You just have a bp and chainsword? Suck to be you. You got a powerfist? But they cost 25pts! Yes, but you just ID their 150+ HQ. Same thing with extra armor. Doesn't seem that useful, but when the amphetamine parrot hits the fan, you wish you had it.
 

Re: Extra Armour. Worth it? If so where.
« Reply #2 on: December 3, 2010, 01:54:17 PM »
 

Ludo

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Extra armor is only worth it on a few space marine vehicles.  A landraider full of terminators being the most easily identifiable.  You want it to move every turn so you can get into assault range with them.  It is also a viable choice on footslogging dreadnaughts that you keep back as a counter attack unit.  I never take EA on rhinos, razorbacks, or my dreadnaughts (The ironclad comes with them and is a better Chic IMO).

I run a mech/drop pod hybrid so the enemy is rarely targetting my transports.  If you're running a pure mech list it seems to me that you should go for target saturation rather than wasting points on EA.

End thoughts:
EA only on landraiders with terminators
sometimes on dreadnaughts
EA is mostly a waste of points.
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Re: Extra Armour. Worth it? If so where.
« Reply #3 on: December 3, 2010, 02:53:00 PM »
 

Ramath

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As much as I respect your points, Ludo, I do have to disagree that EA on Rhino's is a waste of points.  The entire point of a Rhino is to get its payload across the board.  If it is stunned, it can't do that.  Upgrades, of all kinds, should always be used to enhance a unit's primary objective.  dalaran1991 hit the nail on the head with this one.

Take EA on anything that needs to keep moving.  Transports, CC Dreads, being the main choices.
 

Re: Extra Armour. Worth it? If so where.
« Reply #4 on: December 3, 2010, 05:25:09 PM »
 

Ludo

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The entire point of a Rhino is to get its payload across the board.

I disagree.  Many space marines field rhinos as an armored shell.  I've seen rhinos planted on home objectives with a squad inside so that you can't shoot and kill the marines inside in one fell swoop.  Provides a buffer that can't be overcome with many weapons.  Even a bolter can at best glance a rhino.  If you're doing a mech rush then I can concede that point.
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Re: Extra Armour. Worth it? If so where.
« Reply #5 on: December 3, 2010, 07:00:25 PM »
 

Ramath

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I guess if they are used as pill boxes then EA isn't terribly useful.  It isn't a tactic I have ever seen, and I suppose it has its merits.

In this case, I would agree with you.  It really comes down to the role you wish to fill with your vehicle.  Like I mentioned before, Upgrades need to be used to help complete the unit's main objective.
 

Re: Extra Armour. Worth it? If so where.
« Reply #6 on: December 3, 2010, 08:56:48 PM »
 

Hymirl, Space Machine!

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I find extra armour costs too much, sure its annoying on the occasions that you get stunned but by and large I find I'm able to live without it without problem. Most the time the extra points are more useful elsewhere... for the price of two sets of extra armour you can almost afford a whole extra rhino!

I'd probably go for it on dreadnoughts that you plan to get into combat, having them get stunned is pretty critical for them.. particularly in combat. Usefully Ironclads come with it pre-fitted.
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Re: Extra Armour. Worth it? If so where.
« Reply #7 on: December 3, 2010, 09:04:37 PM »
 

Semaj_14

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I never leave the house without extra armour on my drop pod dreadnoughts! Nothing like not being able to charge into combat the next turn beause some inconsiderate jerk decided to shoot at you and manage to get a stunned! Some people!

I used to take extra armour on my rhinos but Lately ive just been taking a whole bunch of marines with rhinos. If theres a problem on the field, throw more marines at it. If you have more rhinos theres more of a chance that some of them are gonna make it to the target :D
yay target saturation!
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Re: Extra Armour. Worth it? If so where.
« Reply #8 on: December 3, 2010, 10:02:07 PM »
 

dalaran1991

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Well if your fighting with 6+ vehicles on the field then I would say it's enough target saturation. Still, any opponents worth his salt would divide his heavy weapons up equally among his troops and split fire on the rhinos full of marines just enough to get a stunned bonus, then move on to other target. My IG friend does this very well. He wouldn't bother with destroying the Rhinos, simply load up on lots of autocannon to get lots of stunned results and then move on to stun the whole mech force. Since I got EA this split fire tactic doesn't work as well as before. Overall I would say if your fighting with 5 vehicles or less EA is useful.

And getting more rhinos isn't that easy :) I'm still waiting for my pay check
 

Re: Extra Armour. Worth it? If so where.
« Reply #9 on: December 5, 2010, 11:05:49 AM »
 

Partninja

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As stated it really depends on your list. With all of the new S6-S8 non-melta spam out there, glances and then stunned results are quite common (at least for me). On something like a landraider that MUST keep moving to get its payload on target extra armor is critical. With such a high armor glances are common, and so are stuns. Same goes for dreads who want to get into CC on the next turn. Vehicles that hang back in more of a shooting support role certainly won't need it.

It also depends on the army. I know for my BA, I like to put extra armor on a few since my vehicles are also fast. That means last turn objective dashes can mean getting that win or tie. A vindi is a good example here for BA. Since it can move 12" and still fire, and with its relatively short range, being able to move after a stun can keep it alive to shoot another round and/or avoid CC, tank shock, or contest an objective in that crucial moment. I will often use vindis and/or baals as a mobile wall for my jump infantry so if they can keep moving up for my jump packers, extra armor becomes an invaluable piece of kit. Another example would be BA razor back spam. When you have so many small units in razorbacks, you want to make sure they can stay in them and move to those objectives late game. Foot slogging 5 guys on foot more than 12" on turn 4-5 won't always get you on those objectives.
 

Re: Extra Armour. Worth it? If so where.
« Reply #10 on: December 5, 2010, 12:58:12 PM »
 

DW

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I only always take it for any assaulting dreadnoughts. Other than that I find my points are better spent elsewhere.
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