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Offline croggy

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Best hellhound variant vs...
« on: July 12, 2010, 05:04:58 PM »
Hello again my fellow commanders,
                                                 I have called this meating to urgently discuss how we can best use our resources to fight of the comming threats that are incrouching upon our positions . I have taken it upon myself to present you all with a list of our current threats and i am interested in finding out your opinions on which of our mighty war machines should be sent where.

First of all.Which of our trusted hellhound variants would be suited where and how should we equip each

Thank you all once again for your time and i trust that with the emporer by our sides we shall prove triumphant and compile a work of reference for future generations

Against
Space marines
Tau
Tyranids
Orks
Necrons
Deamons
Chaos Space marines
Traitor Guard
Eldar



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« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 03:57:13 PM by Rasmus »

Offline Underhand

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Re: BEST HELLHOUND VARIANT VS......................
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2010, 05:13:18 PM »
Space marines            -        Banewolf
Tau                             -        Hellhound (Banewolves still good)
Tyranids                     -         Hellhound - the range is nice.
Orks                            -        Hellhound
Necrons                     -          Banewolf
Deamons                    -         Banewolf/Hellhound
Chaos Space marines -         Banewolf
Traitor Guard              -         Either Banewolf or Hellhound
Eldar/Dark Eldar         -          Hellhound

Basically, against MEQ, it's the Banewolf and against hordes, it's probably  the Hellhound, anything else is probably a tie between the Banewolf and Hellhund - it can go either way depending on the composition of the enemy, your own army and your playstyle.  The answer is never the Devildog.

Offline croggy

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Re: BEST HELLHOUND VARIANT VS......................
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2010, 05:18:38 PM »
lol thanks that is exactly the kind of answer i was looking for

The answer is never the Devildog.

love this quote

EDIT: WOOPSIE I FORGOT ABOUT THE ELDAR
« Last Edit: July 12, 2010, 05:20:54 PM by croggy »

Offline JusticeCetin

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Re: BEST HELLHOUND VARIANT VS......................
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2010, 07:07:10 PM »
I want to deviate with Underhand on a few counts. Ill run through my playgroup armies and explain my view.

 My friend has been playing his deamon army against me, with some success, and i have learned that the Hellhound is superior to the Banewolf in this case.  Deamons will generally use 1 of 2 kinds of troops.  Nurgle or Khorne.  Khorne will get up to you and cut you down, badly, and against these men both are effective.  But it is against Nurgle that the Hellhound shines.  The strat is often that with Nurgle you Go to Ground on an objective.  As such, they get a nice Cover Save and the FNP save.  I have found the easy wound is not as useful as the range.  Often the deamon player will plant his nurgle guys, and bait you.  The ability to deny cover save, and remain 12-18 inches away is invalueable.  And trust me, you don't want to drive your precious FA tank ANYWHERE remotely close to a soul grinder or Bloodthirster.  Or any greater deamon for that matter, or deamon prince, or AT Tzeentch units.  basically there are ALOT of things you don't want to be near. 

Against SM, definitely the Banewolf, the AP stat makes it obvious.

Nids, definitely the Hellhound

Necrons, look at SM :)

Against IG, i would suggest the hellhound, because if they are mechinized, the extra range allows you to pop their Chimera, then waste the occupants, all while staying out of melta range.  If they arent mechanized, then the inferno cannon will kill better than the banewolf anyway.  I don't see how a BW would be good, unless they are bringing GK.

DE, Def the Hellhound, for the same reasons it is better against guard.  Plus, in a pinch the Hellhound can hurt DE and IG transports, which the banewolf cannot.  I have ONCE gotten two wrecks with an Inferno cannon on raiders in the same shot. 

Basically, i rate it based on Save.  3+=BW,  4+=Hellhound.  Deamons are Invuls, so it doesnt matter too much, hence why i value the range over the easy to wound-ness of the BW, unless you are trying to use your BW to hunt his MEQ Greater deamons like his Bloodthirster, which ill tell you now, is a bad idea. 

So that is my view, hope it helps. 
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Offline Commissar ShoutY

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Re: BEST HELLHOUND VARIANT VS......................
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2010, 09:09:58 AM »
ok i feel i must defend the devildog (career suicide but oh well!)

all hellhound type tanks are dedicated for one thing only:-
 Hellhound anti infantry.
Bane wolf anti Marine and Heavy Assult infantry
Devil dog anti tank

i think that the devil dog is probabliy the best tank ambusher in the guard list. remember its fast! so any armour withing 24inch is a 2D6 AP1 S8 shot away from the 28mm afterlife. and most enemies will totaly forget about it or ignore it! in previous games mine has:-

took out a land raider,
wave serpent,
LR Demolisher

ok so there are the LR paskquisherand others for anti tank but theres also the punisher, exterminator ETC for anti infantry so go figure!
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Offline Paraplegic

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Re: BEST HELLHOUND VARIANT VS......................
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2010, 10:10:26 AM »
It's the scattering of a small blast template that really irks me whenever I use the devil dog. I just end up wishing I took a HH/BW and stuck a MM on it.

Offline croggy

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Re: BEST HELLHOUND VARIANT VS......................
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2010, 02:58:07 PM »
i gotta agree that the reason i don't use the devil dog is also because if i want fast melta action i would also bolt on a multimelta to my hell hound

but against one of my opponents it works awesome

he fields a shooty ork list with 4 battle wagons and the move together in a square with the custom force field mek wagon  so its very difficult to see anything other then AV14 and being as they stay bunched up for the whole game it never really misses on the scatter

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Re: BEST HELLHOUND VARIANT VS......................
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2010, 06:41:10 PM »
Hellhound. So good.

Banewolf is great in theory (and with a heavy flamer its awesome against less armoured foes too) but I don't think it'd get further than being a suicide unit. Enough people go "Kill it now!" at a hellhound without me being kind enough to park it next to their meltaguns and krak grenade armed troopers.

The answer is never the Devildog. ;)
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Offline Gornon

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Re: BEST HELLHOUND VARIANT VS......................
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2010, 01:17:56 PM »
Here is my stance on things:

Hellhounds: Power Armor laughs at them.  AKA, half of GW's available armies.  Therefore, the tank is useless against half of your opponents.  In addition, in my experience, very rarley does the extra range of the Hound let it stay in cover while it blazes at the enemey.  The extra range really only means it has an easier time getting to position then the Bane Wolf.

Bane Wolves: Eat Power Armor.  With the addition of a Heavy Flamer, they have more firepower then a Hellhound against infantry if they close.  (Yes, I know the Flamer can't penetrate Power Armor, but I find that the template does cover all the models in a squad and a few one's crop up, so the key models are safe.  Might as well make them roll saves)  The key problem with a Bane Wolf is the term 'close'.  This is bad for two reasons.  One, like Hymril, I have found this means 'suicide unit'.  Any attacks against the enemey mean retaliation is assured.  The other is getting in position.  Their short range means that sometimes, the Wolf just can't close in time to make a differance.

Devil Dogs: Outside of having a dumb name, I actually like this tank.  Why?  It's cheap.  You can get anti-tank and anti-infantry for much less points then what you pay for Hound or Wolf.  If you want to add a multi-melta, you have two anti-tank shots.  More importantly, this tank has what the other two lack.  That is low AP at range.  The Devil Dog can put an attack at further range then the Bane Wolf (and has about 6 inches more effective range then the Hound) and has the low AP to hurt MEQs/TEQs (and deny FNP) unlike the Hellhound.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 01:23:07 PM by Gornon »
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Offline HC118

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Re: BEST HELLHOUND VARIANT VS......................
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2010, 12:23:02 PM »
The only places where a Devil Dog makes sense, is in A)  Nidzilla Lists to contribute to other firepower, or B)  Fully Mechanized Lists in which you face a wall of APCs and Land Raiders.  Otherwise, the Bane Wolf and Hellhound is a preference thing.  I'd go with a Bane Wolf 4 times out of five though.
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Offline Gurney

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Re: BEST HELLHOUND VARIANT VS......................
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2010, 12:37:34 PM »
"Devil Dogs: Outside of having a dumb name," Any US Marine worth his salt would have to disagree very strongly with that statement. Semper Fi!
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: BEST HELLHOUND VARIANT VS......................
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2010, 02:50:43 PM »
We're not talking about the US Marine Corp. We're talking about a support tank. It's really not a good name for a support tank.
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Offline HC118

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Re: BEST HELLHOUND VARIANT VS......................
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2010, 03:54:35 PM »
How are the Hellhound Variant tanks support?  I use them as the tip of an armored assault.  Aren't the Basilisks, LRs, and the like support?
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Offline Bert_the_Turtle

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Re: BEST HELLHOUND VARIANT VS......................
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2010, 03:57:38 PM »
I think the Devil Dog's flexibility, able to destroy infantry and vehicles with equal ability, makes it superior in some rather potent combos.

Imagine using Creed to outflank a couple Devil Dogs. It doesn't matter if they come on and run into a Land Raider or Terminators or a squad of Gretchin. Whatever they bump into is goo. And their fast speed means they might even be able to do a real honest to goodness hit and run.


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Re: BEST HELLHOUND VARIANT VS......................
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2010, 03:59:28 PM »
How are the Hellhound Variant tanks support?  I use them as the tip of an armored assault.  Aren't the Basilisks, LRs, and the like support?

Oh, it's breaking down armoured vehicles into categories. Just like how a Chimera isn't a tank by definition but an infantry fighting vehicle. Rhinos aren't tanks but armoured personal carriers etc. Hellhound variants are support vehicles as generally they're there to force multiply for infantry rather than engage other armoured vehicles by design.
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Offline Cpt. Banjo

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Re: BEST HELLHOUND VARIANT VS......................
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2010, 09:12:54 PM »
Banewolf is great in theory (and with a heavy flamer its awesome against less armoured foes too) \

Be careful of when you use that heavy flamer on your banewolf.

Let's say your Banewolf rolls up to five space marines. One has a Power fist, three have bolters and one a missile launcher. You cause five wounds from the chem cannon and five from the heavy flamer. The owning player could then allocate 2 chem cannon wounds onto two bolt gun marines, a chem cannon wound and a flamer wound onto the last bolter marine and two flamer wounds a-piece on the powerfist and missile launcher.

So if you're not careful, the weapons that you want dead, the powerfist and missile launcher, may not be insta-killed. This is why I prefer a MM on the Banewolf.   
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Offline Gornon

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Re: Best hellhound variant vs...
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2010, 09:52:59 PM »
Both Multi-Meltas and Heavy Flamers have their places on a Bane Wolf. 

Multi-Meltas make the tank expensive, costing as much as a bare bone Leman Russ.  It does make the tank more flexible, though.  Now it does not have to close.  If closing to kill those Bikers will lead to the tanks death, you can pop melta shots off at some transports instead.  It also makes the tank more effective against monsters.

I do use Heavy Flamers against Space Marines, even with the Chemical Cannon.  I'm an old had at using flamers, being a Battle Sister player.  I've found that rarely does a flamer template cover every model (and you can usually tell ahead of time if the flamer template will cover all models, after a little practice).  So, if there  are 10 Marines standing about, I know I will cover about 6 or 7.  While I can't predict the dice rolls, I find it safe to assume there is always going to be one '1'.  This means that about 2/3rd of the squad will be gone.  With a Heavy Flamer, I can at least make sure that the important models have to roll armor saves.
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Offline Cpt. Banjo

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Re: Best hellhound variant vs...
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2010, 04:34:37 AM »
There's always merit in forcing wounds.

The Banewolf is fast though so if you throw it at your opponent, you should be able to put all but the largest of MEQ units under the template. The biggest problem, besides the armour allocation thing, is that with two template weapons, the tank is woe-fully short-ranged.

At least with a multimelta you have one deadly weapon with a decent range and low ap. The chem cannon is str 1 so you can always roll up and fire both the MM and chem cannon.

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Have you no form of decency Jehan?

 


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