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Author Topic: iViva Estalia! (Estalian Army List)  (Read 3154 times)

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Offline Calamity

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iViva Estalia! (Estalian Army List)
« on: April 28, 2010, 09:31:18 PM »
I'm trying to make a list for an army of Estalians, fantasy's Iberian Pennisula.  I'm mostly inspired by the old Dogs of War list, and the real life tactics of medievil swiss mercenaries and spanish conquistidors.

Now, before I delve into the army, here's my rules for pikes, which are very important to this list:

Units armed with a pike:

-Fight in 4 ranks when charged, 1 when charging.

-Strike first when charged, UNLESS, the attacker has a magic ability which allows them to strike first as well, OR, is charged by an attacking unit when already engaged in close combat with another unit.

-Receive +1 strength against charging cavalry, chariots or flyers.

-Receive +1 to their armour save against missile attacks.  This may still be affected by strength modifiers.

Now, the core of the army will be made up off blocks of pikemen, backed up by crossbowmen, knights, small cannon, some sort of skirmisher unit, units of mixed handgunners/halberdiers, and 'conquistor' type mercenary calavry (think 'heavy pistoliers').

What do yous think?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 10:57:34 AM by Tangi, praying for a mircle, but not from Raptor Jesus...... »

Offline Irisado

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Re: Viva Estalia! (Estalian Army List)
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2010, 06:18:49 AM »
They are quite similar to the pike rules in the Dogs of War army book if memory serves me correctly, but if you have a copy of that book, or can get hold of a copy, I would be just be tempted to use the rules there.

There are also various Estalia army lists with rules floating around the internet, so you might want to take a look at some of them (obviously those which have been play tested are the best ones), and see how they tackled the rules for pikes.

The only thing I'm not at all sure about is the bonus save against missile fire.  I don't see why they would receive this bonus.

One final point, you forgot the first exclamation mark (it's ĄViva Estalia!;).
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Offline Calamity

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Re: Viva Estalia! (Estalian Army List)
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2010, 10:57:00 AM »
The only thing I'm not at all sure about is the bonus save against missile fire.  I don't see why they would receive this bonus.

Yes, bit of a weird one this, but I can explain. 

Archers would more commonly go with area fire rather than directly shooting at their targets.  Having a 'hedge' of 18 foot tall spikes over your heads when marching (pikes had to be held upright when moving) can provide some degree of protection from missile fire raining down on you.  Or at least, that's my reasoning.

Note that strength modifiers still apply, so while your bunched up pikes might stop an arrow, they still won't stop a handgun round, or a cannon ball. :P

The pike and crossbow armed troops in my list are levied troops drawn from  the peasantry, so they won't have the worlds best statline.

But the units of mixed halberdiers and handgunners are professional troops, on par with Empire State troops.
They'll have halberds and light armour, with the first rank armed with handguns.  Not sure how I'll work out the ratio though. :-\

Edit: Fixed that little grammatical error. iViva Estalia! ;D
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 10:59:20 AM by Tangi, praying for a mircle, but not from Raptor Jesus...... »

Offline Benis

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Re: Viva Estalia! (Estalian Army List)
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2010, 11:02:15 AM »
Now, before I delve into the army, here's my rules for pikes

I think it is too complex and far too good for simply being longer spears. GW made similar set up but that was in the jolly days of 6th edition and even that didn't really save the rule if you ask me.

-Fight in 4 ranks when charged, 1 when charging.


Fair enough, it is the original deal, although I would personally stick to three ranks since four has always struck me as being a bit over the top.

-Strike first when charged, UNLESS, the attacker has a magic ability which allows them to strike first as well, OR, is charged by an attacking unit when already engaged in close combat with another unit.

This one is too good if you ask me, especially if you get to fight with all the ranks. It would mean that your units would have to be quite expensive and that is in my opinion silly since all it is is a two handed longer spear.

-Receive +1 strength against charging cavalry, chariots or flyers.

Okay, at least leave in the clause about flank and rear charges that is present in the original. Personally I dislike this one too though.

-Receive +1 to their armour save against missile attacks.  This may still be affected by strength modifiers.

Uhm, that explanation doesn't really carry any water, just give them shields instead...

Now, the core of the army will be made up off blocks of pikemen, backed up by crossbowmen, knights, small cannon, some sort of skirmisher unit, units of mixed handgunners/halberdiers, and 'conquistor' type mercenary calavry (think 'heavy pistoliers').

Sounds good although I don't get the handgunner/halberdier unit, what are they meant to represent?

Offline Calamity

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Re: iViva Estalia! (Estalian Army List)
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2010, 05:02:58 PM »
Sounds good although I don't get the handgunner/halberdier unit, what are they meant to represent?

They are full time, professional troops, compared to the pike and crossbow armed conscripts.  They mostly guard the cities and ports of Estalia, and also form a 'marine corps' during naval conflicts. 

However, they can oporate inland when needed, adopting the mixed gun/polearm tactics.

Offline Irisado

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Re: iViva Estalia! (Estalian Army List)
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2010, 05:11:55 PM »
I don't see Pikemen as conscripts personally.  I would have thought that they would be fully trained soldiers, as I wouldn't have thought that the pike is the easiest weapon to use.  Conscripts would use more basic weapons in my opinion.
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Offline Awfully Dandy

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Re: iViva Estalia! (Estalian Army List)
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2010, 05:16:59 PM »
I don't see Pikemen as conscripts personally.  I would have thought that they would be fully trained soldiers, as I wouldn't have thought that the pike is the easiest weapon to use.  Conscripts would use more basic weapons in my opinion.

That and mainting group disclpline and all. Benis is on the marks with his point on the pike, remember they are just good spears and unfortunately the rules for spears are rather simplistic but there you go.

I think though that Tilea being essentially italy should have and did have a heavy merc element to it. So while your citizen militia are good, I would want to have more emphasis on the merc as I feel that would help seperate them from the Empire

Offline Calamity

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Re: iViva Estalia! (Estalian Army List)
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2010, 05:46:30 PM »
OK, I'm having a re-think. :P

Seeing as Estalia is a bit of a factured nation anyway, what if the core of the estalian army is made up of fighting 'free corps'. 

Basicialy all over the country, the people band together and form their own 'paramilitary' type groups to defend their lands, with only the cities maintaining professional standing troops (the handgun/halberdiers).

These formations meet up, train, drill etc, but only in their spare time, and are funded entirely at their own expense (and sometimes cause tensions between themselves and the ruling nobility).  Mostly though, the nobility asks for their help, and they usually agree (for a price).  So, they are mercenaries of a sort.

Offline Benis

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Re: iViva Estalia! (Estalian Army List)
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2010, 05:58:31 PM »
That is not how Estalia is described as working though. To start with it is not a nation it is a territory consisting of several city-states, these city-states hold military forces that are mostly paid mercenaries while the countryside is basically feudally harassed by those forces fortaxes and resources. What you describe sounds much more like how an Empire state would work in desperate times or somewhat how Bretonnia works.

Also, halberdiers is a symbol of the Empire as are handguns in a sense so I don't know how fitting that would be. Better to have elite units with pikes (that does not come with more than one or two rules) and crossbows if you look at the Estalian and Tilean background (which are culturally very similar).

 


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