You are Here:

+-

Tau in close combat

Author (Read 3383 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Tau in close combat
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2010, 04:20:50 AM »
 

Benis

  • 77 Shades Of Decay | Lazerous Penguin | Death to the Emperor with a Pulse!
  • Project Editor
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • 5001
    Posts
  • Country: se
  • Getkilling
    • Awards
Yes that could be it but it feels like a massive handicap in that case, after all it is not only in close combat you need depth perception. It is also something that doesn't feel so extremely far into the future for us (in my incredibly layman opinion) so that solution doesn't really work for me. It is after all specific choice that the Tau has done concerning their helmets, they must have gone from a more traditional parallel eyesight to the current fit because the benefits outweighs the drawbacks.
 

Re: Tau in close combat
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2010, 04:50:21 AM »
 

Full Metal Geneticist

  • Sir Quotesaplenty | No new bastardy suits.
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • 6113
    Posts
  • Country: 00
  • Defender of the Text Wall
    • FMG's Angry Rantings
    • Awards
Depends, if your eyesight is already poor then this is a big boost.

Put it this way people with glasses actually have a sense of tunnel vision compared to the rest of the world. If you threw a ball at one of us our reactions are slow IF the ball is out of the view frame of our glasses.

With contact lenses the frame expands a lot so we would see the ball coming long before it hit but the glasses causes a sense of "tunnel vision". However its still not as good. This is with our good eyesight. If their eyesight as a whole is bad then this could be plausible.


It is pernicious nonsense that feeds into a rising wave of irrationality which threatens to overwhelm the hard-won gains of the Enlightenment and the scientific method. We risk as a society slipping back into a state of magical thinking when made-up science passes for rational discourse. I would compare it to witchcraft but honestly that's insulting to witches.
 

Re: Tau in close combat
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2010, 05:11:27 AM »
 

Benis

  • 77 Shades Of Decay | Lazerous Penguin | Death to the Emperor with a Pulse!
  • Project Editor
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • 5001
    Posts
  • Country: se
  • Getkilling
    • Awards
But given their background as savannah living spearchuckers their eyesight should be about our level. Also your comparison with lenses if interesting since that's sort of how I would imagine that the Tau helmets work only perhaps a bit less invasive.
 

Re: Tau in close combat
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2010, 05:58:43 AM »
 

praetorian1

  • Member
  • ***
  • 500
    Posts
  • Who ordered you to die!
    • Awards
wouldn't this tie into the tau being farsighted and having trouble seeing things up close

it would also tie into the savannaha culture they have

is there mention of tau carrying any type of close combat weapon at all, i mean there's the butts of there rifles but even a bayonet on the end of a rifle is better than that (guard)
Time is not made out of lines. It is made out of circles, that is why clocks are round.
 

Re: Tau in close combat
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2010, 06:17:31 AM »
 

Benis

  • 77 Shades Of Decay | Lazerous Penguin | Death to the Emperor with a Pulse!
  • Project Editor
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • 5001
    Posts
  • Country: se
  • Getkilling
    • Awards
it would also tie into the savannaha culture they have

You mean like us? And it is not a culture issue more of an evolutionary origin issue...

As for equipment, I would assume that they carry some sort of knife just like Space Marines and Imperial Guard, even if it is not meant for close combat (which could be said for Imperial Guard as well) it is pretty damn useful tool to have. It is hardly a question of them lacking a close combat weapon in comparison to a Guardsman.
 

Re: Tau in close combat
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2010, 06:28:52 AM »
 

praetorian1

  • Member
  • ***
  • 500
    Posts
  • Who ordered you to die!
    • Awards
er origin issue is what i meant sry

most IG regiments have some sort of bayonet drill (close combat being so prevalent in 40k)
just saying that guard will have bayonets and tau won't probably isn't helping the tau
Time is not made out of lines. It is made out of circles, that is why clocks are round.
 

Re: Tau in close combat
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2010, 07:18:28 AM »
 

The Ecclesiarch

  • Member
  • ***
  • 1213
    Posts
  • Country: gb
  • Be Pure, Be Vigiliant, Obey!
    • Awards

  • Armies: Forces of the Imperium, Da Boyz, CHAOS.
I just thought i would mention that the Tau dont seem to use offensive grenades either (like Frags) Plasma grenades that they issue to their soldiers are purely defensive! They dont seem to be geared towards offensive hand to hand at all.
+++ Ecclesiastical Proverbs +++
Blasphemy cries out for purgation from the faithful.
Blessed are the war makers.
By Bolter and Flamer we purify the faithless.
Hate sanctifies faith.
Anger and Hatred are mankind's highest virtues.
Let he who would be without sin cast the first grenade.
To be bigoted is human, to be unrepentant of thy bigotry is divine.
Tolerance is ignorance.
+++ Scribe Jack Hanson, Terra +++
 

Re: Tau in close combat
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2010, 07:37:38 AM »
 

Benis

  • 77 Shades Of Decay | Lazerous Penguin | Death to the Emperor with a Pulse!
  • Project Editor
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • 5001
    Posts
  • Country: se
  • Getkilling
    • Awards
That is more into the game mechanics though. Photon grenades are described as working similar to how frag grenades work. In game terms grenades in general have a very game mechanical function. You could perhaps argue that Tau deploy their grenades in a defensive fashion but I would imagine that guardsmen would make similar attempts if they got charged although frag grenades could possibly be less disorienting when compared to photon grenades.
 

Re: Tau in close combat
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2010, 08:41:38 AM »
 

The Ecclesiarch

  • Member
  • ***
  • 1213
    Posts
  • Country: gb
  • Be Pure, Be Vigiliant, Obey!
    • Awards

  • Armies: Forces of the Imperium, Da Boyz, CHAOS.
Yes a defensive wall of shrapnel makes sense, i just mentioned the Plasma grenades to further emphasize the Tau's crummy abilitys in hand to hand combat. As it says in the codex they will try and destroy an enemy through long ranged fire and then withdraw before the enemy gets close, or at least this is what they will usually do with few exceptions!
They are obviously as fast, strong and robust as a normal human, they just suck when it comes to smacking things with riflebutts. Even a Grot could in theory duel a Tau Firewarrior lol lol lol
« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 08:43:59 AM by The Ecclesiarch »
+++ Ecclesiastical Proverbs +++
Blasphemy cries out for purgation from the faithful.
Blessed are the war makers.
By Bolter and Flamer we purify the faithless.
Hate sanctifies faith.
Anger and Hatred are mankind's highest virtues.
Let he who would be without sin cast the first grenade.
To be bigoted is human, to be unrepentant of thy bigotry is divine.
Tolerance is ignorance.
+++ Scribe Jack Hanson, Terra +++
 

Re: Tau in close combat
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2010, 10:24:43 AM »
 

lich

  • Newbie
  • *
  • 43
    Posts
  • I always found myself to be more of a lurker
    • Awards
if I recall correctly isn't Commander Farsight one of the few Tau good in close combat?
Quote from: lich
So a friend of got the new blood angels codex, he says its so overpowered that it give all friends in real life furious charge and feel no pain
 

Re: Tau in close combat
« Reply #50 on: April 11, 2010, 10:38:48 AM »
 

Benis

  • 77 Shades Of Decay | Lazerous Penguin | Death to the Emperor with a Pulse!
  • Project Editor
  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • 5001
    Posts
  • Country: se
  • Getkilling
    • Awards
Yes, the Dawn Blade helps a lot. All the Tau in the Farsight Enclaves is better in close combat when it comes to rules, apparently due to extended combat with the Orks. It might also have to do with the runaway Fire caste culture the Enclaves probably have. I would view that more as game mechanics though.
 

Re: Tau in close combat
« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2010, 11:51:55 PM »
 

Locke

  • Member
  • ***
  • 1128
    Posts
  • Country: us
  • Bring the Rain
    • Awards
I would have loved to jump on this earlier. Alas, thems the breaks. I just want to say to whoever it was a page and a half ago that suggested that the battlesuits provide additional combat ability, that's false. While it isn't apparent in the current codex, go pull out an old 3rd edition one and it will actually tell you what stat upgrades the suit provided and why. Stealths gave just +1S, while Crisis's due to their larger size gave +2 S, +1T, and +1W. No mention of close combat stats. Those are tied purely to being the Shas'ui\Shas'vre rank. Now, why did GW see fit to write the fluff that the Tau, a ranged combat species, should advance in close combat as their ranks improve rather than ranged combat is a little baffling to me.

Quote
is there mention of tau carrying any type of close combat weapon at all, i mean there's the butts of there rifles but even a bayonet on the end of a rifle is better than that (guard)

Well, they have the bonding knife and honour blade. Obviously they know what a knife is. And I doubt you'll see a Tau housewife at home blasting bread into slices with a pulse pistol ;). Most close combat weapons are a variation on a club or a knife, I'm positive the Tau know what both are. While I don't think they attach it to their gun, I'm sure Shas have knives issued as survivalist gear, if not as close combat weapons.


As to the actual root of Tau cc woes, I think there are a few reasons. Primarily there's the physique & psychology, but as that's been heavily vetted, I had an alternate idea. Has anybody considered that the Tau in close combat might actually be too preoccupied with their guns? Looking at the models, they're nearly as long as the firewarrior himself, and can't exactly be useful in combat the way a bolter could be. I could imagine that Tau being charged might look something like an old (Pardon the American reference) Revolutionary War charge. They're shooting down to the last second, some are reloading, both get cut down by people ready for close combat. Others are trying to fumble with their weapons to get a shot off before their head is cut off. I could see the Tau attempting that in lieu of actual hand to hand combat.

I still think Tau need stand & shoot xD.
Locke's Record (2010):
 Shas'el'Sa'cea'Kanvah'Kais: 3-1-1
 Simulation (Vassal) Record: 31-4-9
            Tau: 21-3-6
     Necrons: 3-1-1
 Dark Eldar: 7-0-2
 

Re: Tau in close combat
« Reply #52 on: April 12, 2010, 12:21:25 AM »
 

Gornon

  • Emperor's Quill | I... I just don't want to talk about it
  • Ancient
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • 3329
    Posts
    • Awards
Quote
Has anybody considered that the Tau in close combat might actually be   too preoccupied with their guns?

I can agree with that.  Bolters look more like Carbines than Rifles.  As do las guns.  Think about most FPS.  The Sniper Rifle usually has superior damage and range, but lacks the hovering cross hairs in the air when being shot from the hip like other guns.  I think Pulse Rifles are like that.  Superior at range, but have a hard time up close and personnel, being very cumbersome to aim due to the barrel length.  Bolters would be assault rifles.  Las Guns would be that basic fire arm that never runs out of ammo.

However, the length of the gun isn't all bad.  The reason the bayonet replaced the spear was that the old school muskets and rifles were about spear length.  Add a bayonet and instant spear!  The Pulse Rifle could be the same, but I don't see any lugs on the front of the gun for a knife or bayonet, let alone images of Tau with such tools.  The fact that their rifles don't even have that speaks of Tau having  doctrines against hand to hand, not just physical problems. 

Of course, the real reason is that a knife blade would look goofy sticking out of the end of a Pulse Rifle. 

The gun might be used as a club, but I get the impression the gun is made from as light materials as possible.  All well and good for the solider hefting the gun, but less weight means the enemey get hit with less force.  This will also limit just what a Pulse Rife can do in CC.

Seems odd at first.  Even the modern Western Military still has close combat training and the like because house to house fighting would dictate that close quarters fights must occur.   The Codex does note that the Tau never preform close assaults, preferring to gun the enemy down (Just blow up the house the enemey is in with long range Rail, Seeker, or Crisis fire) or send in Kroot if the stronghold is too tough.
"Lift not my head from bloody ground,
Bear not my body home,
For all the earth is Roman earth
And I shall die in Rome."
-G.K. Chesterton, The Ballad Of The White Horse

"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."-Carl von Clausewitz, Prussian Military Theorist

Background Board Poster of the Year, '09
 

Re: Tau in close combat
« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2010, 10:07:54 AM »
 

Mr.Peanut (Turtleproof)

  • Exarch | Pork Sword of Mod-Justice | Took the basket, nuts and lol | Good grief, ye hennie pennies
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 13059
    Posts
  • Country: 00
  • ++Leagio Extremae Bibentibus++
    • Awards
They're physically shorter than the average bear race, shorter lived, have poor eyesight, and so on.

Just because they have the technology to compensate doesn't mean the grunts get it.  Even the Tau have an economy, resource limitations, and logistical issues to deal with, so not every Warrior gets encased on a Manta Battlesuit for protection and armament.  Cultural constraints have been mentioned already; if close combat is taboo then its not seen as a shortfall to be poor at it.
You are
What you do
When it counts
     -The Masao

Hiatus Kaiyote
 

 


Powered by EzPortal

Facebook Comments