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Offline 007

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Shadowsun
« on: February 3, 2010, 11:09:07 AM »
So... shadowsun.  Your thoughts?  I think she is an awesome character and has potential.  But can potential justify here price tag?

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Shadowsun
« Reply #1 on: February 3, 2010, 12:11:29 PM »
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Offline 007

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Re: Shadowsun
« Reply #2 on: February 3, 2010, 03:22:12 PM »
I saw that one when I ran a search lol.  He is rather charmingly charismatic isn't he? 

However, that was written in 4th ed.  I'm talking 5th ed o'shaserra here.  I say this for the reason that I feel her value has increased a bit.   What do you all think?

Offline Sayt

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Re: Shadowsun
« Reply #3 on: February 4, 2010, 06:25:46 AM »
Unfortunately, O'Shassera  trips at one of the most important hurdles;  specialisation.  IE, She isn't, and that's somethind we need, unfortunately.   Her weaponry is that of a suicide suit.  A very expensive, probably very effective suicide suit.  She can hit two tanks/squadrons  with a melta shot each at once, which is rather cool.  However, Her Commadn Uplink drone makes her a tempting addition to a Tau Gunline, which is a bad thing, as Gunline is dead and buried, we shall never speak of it again.

Offline Gentleman Fate

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Re: Shadowsun
« Reply #4 on: February 4, 2010, 07:08:49 AM »
I've used her to good effect. She is best for Deepstriking in and using her melta shot, but this shouldn't be a solo mission. I accompany her on a flank with either my Skyray and 'finders (who act almost always as Krak Missile shooters) for breaking vehicles on said flank, or in front of a Crisis Suit advance to make them less likely to flee when the battle becomes tough for them.
"If you were smart you would have rolled a six."
- Spencer Young, God amongst men.

"ok, my boys are disembarking now, and since i have no shooting, theyr gonna run then assault" me-"Umm... you went flat out, AND you aren't Fleet" him-"But this is a trukk and these are boyz. they can do it because they believe they can do it" me-"...Right." -Kabal

It's cool to shoot 2 plasma cannons.....INTO YOUR PLAGUEMARINES.

Offline Farseer Arendil

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Re: Shadowsun
« Reply #5 on: February 5, 2010, 10:12:00 PM »
Hrmm, yeah Shadowsun...... Do what you think is best, just know, she isn't the greatest HQ choice....  then again I am a Farsight advocate so maybe you shouldn't listen to me.  I just feel that with stealth, no infiltrate, and a couple of drones and two melta shots... I could set up a mad crazy face stomping stealth team that will get her work done in half the time.
Besides, the FW DCCW is too damn awesome not to put it on a ven dread... Holy Moly! You know something? that's not even a proper DA ven dread; its a generic ven dread with a RW icon plastered on one side after half the icon's wing has been cut away, pathetic! :P

Offline Razing_Zozo

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Re: Shadowsun
« Reply #6 on: February 5, 2010, 10:35:04 PM »
Unfortunately, O'Shassera  trips at one of the most important hurdles;  specialisation.  IE, She isn't, and that's somethind we need, unfortunately.   Her weaponry is that of a suicide suit.  A very expensive, probably very effective suicide suit.  She can hit two tanks/squadrons  with a melta shot each at once, which is rather cool.  However, Her Commadn Uplink drone makes her a tempting addition to a Tau Gunline, which is a bad thing, as Gunline is dead and buried, we shall never speak of it again.

Unfortunately melta is not what it used to be, now a weapon with melta only adds the extra D6(verse Vs) at half the weapons range. While, yes, a S8 hit is a S8 hit, you need to ask yourself is that worth it? For this expensive, easy to hit and (if she is shooting at something, even at 12") easy to assault unit. Yes the drone is cool, but an ethereal only costs 50 points and their inspiring presence is not to far off the mark of her drone, plus it has a range of line of sight (which is now only blocked by impassable terrain) and though it be a woeful day when your Ethereal is killed, at least you have a just over 50% chance of all your Tau getting Furious Charge. Field 2 Ethereals, and that 50% becomes a cool 75% when his pheromonal buddy bites it.

I like her, but she needs another edge, maybe have her experimental suit allows her to wield 2 heavy barreled Fusion blasters, upping their range to 18" and thus, their Melta to 9", with Jump packs, she would be a holy terror indeed, and would have less a chance of the suicide run.
"So let me get this straight: You hit me once with your Bike, winning the assault, I rolled a 9 for morale and now my unit of 11 Firewarriors and 2 drones are totally wiped out... 13 to 1, and I'm scared to death cause T'om got killed??? Only the Tau"

Offline Sayt

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Re: Shadowsun
« Reply #7 on: February 5, 2010, 11:28:06 PM »
The fielding two ethereals would be a novel idea.  If you could take a second Ethereal. Anfd seeingas you have two HQ slots, adn Crisis battlesuit caommanders are 1+ choices........


Miiight be a little difficult to pull off.

EDIT: oh, and melta weapons are the king of AT these days.  with 2d6Armour pen, you've got an even chance of penetrating just about anything that doesn't have the Livign metal special rule.
« Last Edit: February 5, 2010, 11:29:08 PM by Sir Saytael Gin A Lot. »

Offline Daedalus_Mk_V

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Re: Shadowsun
« Reply #8 on: February 6, 2010, 01:25:24 PM »
Agreed with Saytael. Meltas are the best Special Weapon in the game right now, pretty much across the board. Melta spam is what kills tanks for most armies, since the difference between AP1 and not-AP1 is absolutely massive. Tau are lucky in that our primary AT is still alive and well (the Railgun lost very little killing power in the shift from 4th to 5th, while most AT took about a 35% drop).

As to O'Shaserra? She was built to lead a gunline from a long way away from the enemy, where she can operate with relative immunity to damage and keep those Fire Warriors and Broadsides in line. She's still really, really damned good at that, it's just that Tau gunlines aren't going to do too well in a competitive environment anyways, which makes her much less useful. She does have one of the coolest models in our range, though, which is one of the reasons that DoW stole it for their Tau commander. IMO, we don't see Shadowsun anymore for the same reason we don't see Etherials much; they're really only good in Gunlines, and Gunlines aren't a good way to play Tau except at low points levels (where Shadowsun doesn't fit due to cost).

Offline Razing_Zozo

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Re: Shadowsun
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2010, 09:29:18 AM »
The fielding two ethereals would be a novel idea.  If you could take a second Ethereal. Anfd seeingas you have two HQ slots, adn Crisis battlesuit caommanders are 1+ choices........


Miiight be a little difficult to pull off.

EDIT: oh, and melta weapons are the king of AT these days.  with 2d6Armour pen, you've got an even chance of penetrating just about anything that doesn't have the Livign metal special rule.

You are of course, correct. I had never attempted to field such a force, the idea just came to me as i was typing. But, it would be very cool to field 2 etherals, sacrifice one right away, and get as many Tau to go nuts for revenge as possible. Technically this IS possible, though expensive. For 205 points you could field Aun'va and then take an Ethereal as your other HQ choice. then deside if you want to sacrifice 50 points to give a bunch of your Tau Preferred Enemy, or the better part of 205 points to give your Tau Perfered Enemy AND Furious Charge.
Costly and crazy can be the Price of Failure.
"So let me get this straight: You hit me once with your Bike, winning the assault, I rolled a 9 for morale and now my unit of 11 Firewarriors and 2 drones are totally wiped out... 13 to 1, and I'm scared to death cause T'om got killed??? Only the Tau"

Offline Gentleman Fate

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Re: Shadowsun
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2010, 10:36:24 AM »
I've tried her in a few games lately. She has been tasked the role of leading flanks via deepstrike and hunting Obliterators/Heavy tanks.
She did her job admirably, dropping three Oblits one game and two Rhinos another. Both games however, she ran away from danger, despite Ld 10.
It should be noted that she is also two KP, as her drones form a retinue. I've dropped her from my list in order to field a full SMT.
"If you were smart you would have rolled a six."
- Spencer Young, God amongst men.

"ok, my boys are disembarking now, and since i have no shooting, theyr gonna run then assault" me-"Umm... you went flat out, AND you aren't Fleet" him-"But this is a trukk and these are boyz. they can do it because they believe they can do it" me-"...Right." -Kabal

It's cool to shoot 2 plasma cannons.....INTO YOUR PLAGUEMARINES.

Offline Daedalus_Mk_V

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Re: Shadowsun
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2010, 01:03:25 PM »
The fielding two ethereals would be a novel idea.  If you could take a second Ethereal. Anfd seeingas you have two HQ slots, adn Crisis battlesuit caommanders are 1+ choices........


Miiight be a little difficult to pull off.

EDIT: oh, and melta weapons are the king of AT these days.  with 2d6Armour pen, you've got an even chance of penetrating just about anything that doesn't have the Livign metal special rule.

You are of course, correct. I had never attempted to field such a force, the idea just came to me as i was typing. But, it would be very cool to field 2 etherals, sacrifice one right away, and get as many Tau to go nuts for revenge as possible. Technically this IS possible, though expensive. For 205 points you could field Aun'va and then take an Ethereal as your other HQ choice. then deside if you want to sacrifice 50 points to give a bunch of your Tau Preferred Enemy, or the better part of 205 points to give your Tau Perfered Enemy AND Furious Charge.
Costly and crazy can be the Price of Failure.
Sorry to break it to you, but Crisis Commanders are 1+ and you only get two HQ slots, so you can never have more than one Etherial in standard 40k.

Also, never take Aun'va. Ever! A savvy opponent will sit back and let you waste over 200 points making you stubborn... Then use that to make combats last two assault phases instead of one. IMO, Aun'va is utterly useless in every way, except perhaps in very large Apoc games as a sacrificial lamb to give the whole army something approximating CC ability. Even then, though, I wouldn't take him.

Offline Gentleman Fate

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Re: Shadowsun
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2010, 05:34:08 PM »
Yeah, its kind of sad that the Tau's primary spiritual leader's only real purpose is to pull a Kuwabara and piss off his men. But Daedalus is right, you can never do the two Ethereal trick.
"If you were smart you would have rolled a six."
- Spencer Young, God amongst men.

"ok, my boys are disembarking now, and since i have no shooting, theyr gonna run then assault" me-"Umm... you went flat out, AND you aren't Fleet" him-"But this is a trukk and these are boyz. they can do it because they believe they can do it" me-"...Right." -Kabal

It's cool to shoot 2 plasma cannons.....INTO YOUR PLAGUEMARINES.

Offline Razing_Zozo

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Re: Shadowsun
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2010, 05:06:21 PM »
The fielding two ethereals would be a novel idea.  If you could take a second Ethereal. Anfd seeingas you have two HQ slots, adn Crisis battlesuit caommanders are 1+ choices........


Miiight be a little difficult to pull off.

EDIT: oh, and melta weapons are the king of AT these days.  with 2d6Armour pen, you've got an even chance of penetrating just about anything that doesn't have the Livign metal special rule.

You are of course, correct. I had never attempted to field such a force, the idea just came to me as i was typing. But, it would be very cool to field 2 etherals, sacrifice one right away, and get as many Tau to go nuts for revenge as possible. Technically this IS possible, though expensive. For 205 points you could field Aun'va and then take an Ethereal as your other HQ choice. then deside if you want to sacrifice 50 points to give a bunch of your Tau Preferred Enemy, or the better part of 205 points to give your Tau Perfered Enemy AND Furious Charge.
Costly and crazy can be the Price of Failure.
Sorry to break it to you, but Crisis Commanders are 1+ and you only get two HQ slots, so you can never have more than one Etherial in standard 40k.

Also, never take Aun'va. Ever! A savvy opponent will sit back and let you waste over 200 points making you stubborn... Then use that to make combats last two assault phases instead of one. IMO, Aun'va is utterly useless in every way, except perhaps in very large Apoc games as a sacrificial lamb to give the whole army something approximating CC ability. Even then, though, I wouldn't take him.

As I said, I have never fielded this type of strategy before. Needless to say, being able fielding more that one HQ at all was an oversight I made long ago. It was not until I recently read an official tournament Tau Roster that featured two Shas'el that I realized it was an option. As you say, commanders are 1+ and thus can be fielded with another Shas'el or any other HQ choice. Ethereals only ever travel alone, or with body guards. Compared to other armies HQ lists, the Tau are indeed lacking in options. Ethereal's definitely need some more ability options.

As far as Shadowsun, while she is not all that great, the equipment she carries is. I hope to see her Advance Target lock in 5th Ed, and the idea of light weight integrated Shields would definitely make for a great addition to either our Elites or HQ figures. (maybe just Shas'ui)
"So let me get this straight: You hit me once with your Bike, winning the assault, I rolled a 9 for morale and now my unit of 11 Firewarriors and 2 drones are totally wiped out... 13 to 1, and I'm scared to death cause T'om got killed??? Only the Tau"

 


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