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Rhino rush. What is it, and how to use it?

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Rhino rush. What is it, and how to use it?
« on: January 5, 2010, 04:28:12 AM »
 

dalaran1991

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I've heard about the Rhino rush all the time, and it seems to be a common tactic for SM. I have lotta Rhinos, but to be honest I don't know exactly what a Rhino rush is, and most importantly, how to be effective with them. Can you veterans explain in detail for me this tactic, especially on these points:
-Deployment. How to deploy the Rhinos ready for the rush
-Movement. How u move ur Rhinos around and protect it (i.e when to use smoke, how to move to screen each other)
-Passengers handling. Why, when and where to disembark passengers.
-Use after disembarkation.
-Necessary upgrades.
I ask these question assuming I'm using the rhino rush tactic, though by now I'm not entirely sure what that tactic is.
I know I'm asking for much :) but if u guys could be so nice to help, we may even form an important tactica to help people out. Any feedback would be much appreciated.
 

Re: Rhino rush. What is it, and how to use it?
« Reply #1 on: January 5, 2010, 04:49:24 AM »
 

Wuestenfux

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Well, Rhino rush was a successful tactics in the 3rd ed.
At that time, passengers of a Rhino were able to charge after the transport moved in the SAME turn.
Since then, Rhino rush is dead.

However, there are is modified version of Rhino rush that works quite well if you field Rhino squads and Assault Marines. I used this tactics very often when I played my BA army.
For this, you take, say, two Rhinos squads and two Assault units. Move the Rhinos side by side at full speed towards the enemy, with the Assault Marines behind shielded by the tanks. If the Rhinos are not in rapid fire range, then launch smoke. Otherwise, let the Rhino squad disembark and rapid fire. The Assault Marines stay behind. In the next turn, the Rhino Marines secure the area where they disembarked while the Assault Marines sweep across the board.
This tactics requires some support units like Vindicators accompanying the advance of the Rhinos. :D
 

Re: Rhino rush. What is it, and how to use it?
« Reply #2 on: January 5, 2010, 08:08:41 AM »
 

Major Arah

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What Wuestenfux said is correct. Now its more like the rhino rush then got shot up...

BUt i still do it with my Black Templars you just have to be able to manouver your rhinos correctly with the support of other units so that what you are trying to assault stays in assault range. Its a bit more fiddley now but its still the best bet with assault based SM armies
Thus the metric system did not really catch on in the States, unless you count the increasing popularity of the nine-millimeter bullet. - Dave Barry
 

Re: Rhino rush. What is it, and how to use it?
« Reply #3 on: January 5, 2010, 12:47:13 PM »
 

g3nius_monkey

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I've only ever played 5th ed, so my development of the rhino rush is a bit different than what some of the vets around here might say. It also depends heavily on whether you got the first or second turn.

If you have the first turn the tactic is really easy. Load up a rhino with a Tactical Squad, push it to the front of your deployment zone, and on your turn move it as far forward as you can and blow smoke. Regardless of whether or not your rhino survives till turn 2, you'll have enough movement to move your marines forward and either Rapid Fire (most common) or charge (a little more tricky but still possible). The success of this tactic grows exponentially with the number of Tactical Squads in coordination with each other. Generally, a full out broadside from two Tac Squads is enough to kill or cripple a unit that would otherwise be dangerous.

If you get the second turn, try to anticipate your opponent's first move, and set your rhinos accordingly. This is a little more difficult than it sounds, because your rhinos are easy targets to kill and have to withstand a round of firing before you can actually do anything. I usually put mine behind a rock, or position them in a way that doesn't present an obvious target (IE, out in the open). After your opponent makes his move, assuming you placed your rhino correctly you can intercept the unit and broadside it with a full squad of Tactical Marines.

Of the two, the latter is more effective, since your Marines aren't left at the enemy's doorstep and have a high chance of surviving the following turn. The former usually only works when the stars align (meaning its very risky and even then might not do anything) and I would only recommend to hit hard on a flank.
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Re: Rhino rush. What is it, and how to use it?
« Reply #4 on: January 5, 2010, 12:57:06 PM »
 

NewHeretic

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My most common tactic is similar to what Wuestenfux and g3nius_monkey described.  I advance my Rhinos their full movement allotment and disembark the Tactical Squad inside to Rapid Fire enemy units or keep them inside and pop Smoke to advance again next Turn.

What Wuestenfux said about supporting units is very important.  I usually advance a Vindicator or two along with the Rhinos, though I only advance them at Combat Speed so that they can fire their Ordinance weapon the first Turn.  I also bring a dedicated close combat unit to support the shooting power of the Tactical Squads.  This may be a Terminator unit or a Vanguard unit in a Land Raider Crusader, a couple of Dreadnoughts, or even an Assault Squad.

My Tactical Squads are equipped in the following manner in order to be as flexible as possible to deal with any threat:
  7x Bolters;
  1x Multi-Melta;
  1x Melta Gun;
  1x Sgt w/ Powerfist & Combi-Flamer.

NewHeretic
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Re: Rhino rush. What is it, and how to use it?
« Reply #5 on: January 5, 2010, 01:45:43 PM »
 

dalaran1991

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Thanks for the influx. About disembarking, I do this quite often and wipe out a unit in a volley of bolter, only to be shot to pieces by all the heavy firepower, especially blast template. Is this essential to disembark into cover? Sometimes when I try to hug cover it breaks my formation.
Please keep the idea flowing guys  :)
 

Re: Rhino rush. What is it, and how to use it?
« Reply #6 on: January 5, 2010, 02:43:53 PM »
 

NewHeretic

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Thanks for the influx. About disembarking, I do this quite often and wipe out a unit in a volley of bolter, only to be shot to pieces by all the heavy firepower, especially blast template. Is this essential to disembark into cover? Sometimes when I try to hug cover it breaks my formation.
Please keep the idea flowing guys  :)

Several suggestions for mitigating this have already been offered.  I'll recap:

1)  Support units that can offer alternate targets or tie up opposing shooty units.  Try (Assault) Terminators, Assault Squads, Bike Squadrons, Vanguard Vets, Dreadnoughts, etc.

2)  Target Saturation.  Having three, four, five, or even six Tactical Squads all doing this together will allow you to focus the fire of more than one Tactical Squad on enemy units so that you can wipe them out altogether and will provide too many targets for your enemy to wipe out.

3)  Keep the Tactical Squads inside of the Rhino.  Next Turn, you can move again to a better position or have two of the Marines (the Special and Heavy Weapons guys) fire out of the top hatch.

4)  Disembark your Tactical Squad(s) behind the Rhino and pop Smoke.  Next Turn, your Tactical Squads can reimbark and move or the Rhinos can move out of the way giving the Tactical Squad the option of firing all weapons at maximum range or advancing and Rapid Firing or, if the Rhinos have been destroyed, the Tactical Squads can advance into their wrecks or craters and Rapid Fire from Cover. 

NewHeretic
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Re: Rhino rush. What is it, and how to use it?
« Reply #7 on: January 6, 2010, 03:35:36 AM »
 

Wuestenfux

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One problem with the implementation of Rhino rush is that each Rhino can launch smoke only once per battle.

However, if two Rhinos work together by leap frogging then smoke can effectively be used two times per battle:

Take two Rhinos, one in front of the other.
Move both at full speed.
The first one launches smoke; the Rhino behind should get cover as its obscured.
Next turn, leap frog, move the second Rhino in front with the first behind.
The Rhino in front launches smoke: the other Rhino should get cover as its obscured.

2 1 -> 2 1*  ->  1 2*
* smoke

Quote
If you have the first turn the tactic is really easy. Load up a rhino with a Tactical Squad, push it to the front of your deployment zone, and on your turn move it as far forward as you can and blow smoke. Regardless of whether or not your rhino survives till turn 2, you'll have enough movement to move your marines forward and either Rapid Fire (most common) or charge (a little more tricky but still possible). The success of this tactic grows exponentially with the number of Tactical Squads in coordination with each other. Generally, a full out broadside from two Tac Squads is enough to kill or cripple a unit that would otherwise be dangerous.

More specifically, 40k follows the Lanchester square law:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanchester's_laws

 

Re: Rhino rush. What is it, and how to use it?
« Reply #8 on: January 6, 2010, 05:20:46 PM »
 

HORDE

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The success of this tactic grows exponentially with the number of Tactical Squads in coordination with each other. Generally, a full out broadside from two Tac Squads is enough to kill or cripple a unit that would otherwise be dangerous.

oh how i wished that were true last night! but generally yes, two tactical squads rapid firing in unison should put a significant dent in most squads.

getting out and rapid firing is the rhino rush of 5th, but it's difficult to not get mullered the turn after you've unloaded.
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Re: Rhino rush. What is it, and how to use it?
« Reply #9 on: January 6, 2010, 05:48:29 PM »
 

NewHeretic

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One problem with the implementation of Rhino rush is that each Rhino can launch smoke only once per battle.

However, if two Rhinos work together by leap frogging then smoke can effectively be used two times per battle:

Take two Rhinos, one in front of the other.
Move both at full speed.
The first one launches smoke; the Rhino behind should get cover as its obscured.
Next turn, leap frog, move the second Rhino in front with the first behind.
The Rhino in front launches smoke: the other Rhino should get cover as its obscured.

2 1 -> 2 1*  ->  1 2*
* smoke

I'm having trouble envisioning this method working to move the Rhinos forward very quickly.  Because each Rhino is about 5 inches long, on Turn 1, the first Rhino could move 12" and the second only 6-7".  Turn Two, the first Rhino could only move between 1" & 2" in order to allow the second Rhino to move all the way around to its front.  I suppose, if they were moved, then turned sideways, this would add an inch or two to their movement, but not much.  A SM player would be much better off simply moving both Rhinos their full 12" on Turn 1 and using both of their Smoke Launchers right away to ensure that their cargo got as far forward as possible before their transports were destroyed.

Am I missing something? ???

NewHeretic
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Re: Rhino rush. What is it, and how to use it?
« Reply #10 on: January 6, 2010, 06:38:54 PM »
 

g3nius_monkey

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I think the leap frogging thing can be done, but it requires a little bit of forethought as to which unit you're trying to protect yourself from.

Put the rhino's side by side, then move one forward its max distance and blow smoke. Move the next only far enough to where its obscured from the PoV of the target you're protecting against. Next turn, do the same thing, this time moving the rhino that hasn't blown smoke out and in front of the one that already did, gaining the same effect. It should look something like this;



Sometimes I start my rhinos side by side just for this purpose. I don't always discriminate against a single unit, but it helps control what kind of targets you're presenting to your opponent.
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Re: Rhino rush. What is it, and how to use it?
« Reply #11 on: January 6, 2010, 08:11:46 PM »
 

NewHeretic

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Yes, I see how your pictures demonstrate that the tactic can be effective later in the game or when you don't need your Tactical Squads to advance very quickly.  I just don't see it working well on the first and second Turns of the game when your goal is to get the Tactical Squads into your opponent's face in the middle of the table as quickly as possible, which is generally the goal of the Rhino Rush.

NewHeretic
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We will serve the Lord.

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Re: Rhino rush. What is it, and how to use it?
« Reply #12 on: January 7, 2010, 02:55:36 AM »
 

Wuestenfux

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Well, the advance of the Rhinos is a bit slowed down when you want to guarantee that they get obscured for more than one round. In this way, the Rhinos eventually get into rapid fire range.
 

Re: Rhino rush. What is it, and how to use it?
« Reply #13 on: January 7, 2010, 11:27:38 PM »
 

dalaran1991

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When and in what situation should we pull out a rhino rush, and when should we not?
 

Re: Rhino rush. What is it, and how to use it?
« Reply #14 on: January 7, 2010, 11:54:03 PM »
 

CreepyCrawly

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The rhino rush is best used as part of a combined-arms tactic. It should not be used by itself if there is an immediate threat to the tactical squad it is delivering. I use two rhinos accompanied by two vindicators with fire support. This ensures that the tactical squads receive relatively little opposing fire, and most anti-marine guns are also anti-tank. the infantry can protect the tanks as these are most vulnerable in assault. Furthermore, any unit wishing to counter-charge the tactical squad once it does its about-face rapid fire (the only way I use them) will soon face two demolisher cannons when I use combat tactics to fall back. Alternatively, I can assault with the second tactical squad to reinforce the first. The point is that the rhino rush is not an isolated strategy, but one that requires cooperative specialization.
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Re: Rhino rush. What is it, and how to use it?
« Reply #15 on: January 8, 2010, 12:16:21 AM »
 

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When and in what situation should we pull out a rhino rush...

When you want to get close to the bad guys!

Truth be told Rhino Rushing is dead, it used to refer to how marine armies could spam tactical marines (and probably a command squad in rhinos) scream it all over the other side of the table and proceed to deck people in hand to hand because using a rhino was much cheaper, faster, more reliable and more flexable than buying assault marines and rapid fire guns where no bloody use to shoot anything with. Its primarly why they changed the rules... and why everyone was dubious of the sexuality of 3rd edition blood angel players. But thats an aside...

Nowdays you're pretty much just using mechanised tactics, which is slightly different because it features a core of marines in rhinos who close with the enemy in a slighty more measured pace and using bolters to deal with things. But you need to use support to take out targets out of reach so that means predators and vindicators... and you need to have some units with more powerful combat attacks to prevent your army getting bogged down in hand to hand.
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