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Doombreed = Hitler?

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Doombreed = Hitler?
« on: September 11, 2009, 05:08:35 PM »
 

Boss_Bannednutz

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Was Doombreed http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Doombreed supposed to be Hitler?
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Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2009, 05:11:24 PM »
 

Benis

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This might go better in Warhammer Background...

I think he is more suppose to represent Genghis Khan or some other bloodthirsty warlord (Alexander, Xerxes, Tamerlane, Attila whatever). Hitler wouldn't really impress Khorne that much in my opinion...
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 05:12:31 PM by Benis »
 

Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2009, 06:02:01 PM »
 

Boss_Bannednutz

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This might go better in Warhammer Background...

I think he is more suppose to represent Genghis Khan or some other bloodthirsty warlord (Alexander, Xerxes, Tamerlane, Attila whatever). Hitler wouldn't really impress Khorne that much in my opinion...
I thought of that too, initially, but the genocide part seems more akin to AH. Conquering vast swaths doesn't necessarily mean deliberate genocide.
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Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2009, 06:07:07 PM »
 

Benis

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No but at least Genghis Khan and Tamerlane were quite famous for what we now days would call genocide. Just because someone mentions genocide it doesn't automatically mean Hitler, sadly he is certainly not alone in history of performing such deeds. ;)
 

Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2009, 06:15:49 PM »
 

Land Rover Tangi

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I think he is more suppose to represent Genghis Khan or some other bloodthirsty warlord (Alexander, Xerxes, Tamerlane, Attila whatever). Hitler wouldn't really impress Khorne that much in my opinion...

Yeah, I can see why.  Khorne seems to favour physical strength and prowess in his servants, something Hitler sorely lacked.  But I have to wonder, what did happen to Hitler by the time of 40k.   :)
  

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Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2009, 06:27:30 PM »
 

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He became Hitler, In Space! as seen in the Ciaphas Cain novel, Cain's Last Stand.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 06:30:52 PM by Scorn »
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Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2009, 06:31:30 PM »
 

One Guy with a Meltagun

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He became Hitler, In Space! as seen in the Ciaphas Cain novel.

That was the low point of the novel....
Like  Creed being  Churchill, or some guy in 40k modelled after Rommel.
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Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2009, 06:32:25 PM »
 

Irandrura

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*sigh* Lexicanum.

Quote from: Codex: Chaos, 2nd ed., p. 139
Khorne was the first of the great Chaos gods to awake fully, and Doombreed was one of the first of his servants. His true name has long been forgotten, but he was once human, a mighty Warlord who led armies which ravaged entire nations on Earth long, long ago. His acts of genocide and murder pleased the young god Khorne, who rewarded him and made him one of his first Daemon Princes.
Since then Doombreed has continued to serve Khorne well. He fought for his master at the side of Horus during the Heresy, and was aboard the Warmaster's battle barge when Horus was slain and the Emperor mortally wounded. Over the millennia he has returned to plague humanity countless times.

Quote from: Black Crusades, Liber Khorne
The ancient prince of Khorne named Doom breed will sweep humanities finest [sic] and purest to the brink of destruction. Few will fall compared with other invasions, but the cost will be high indeed. His war will be nothing less than a declarationof war upon the Adeptes [sic], staunchest of all the foes of Chaos, and he will be defeated.
But I lament the Warhawks and the Venerators, for they shall be lost.

Quote from: Codex: Chaos Space Marines, 4th ed., p. 32
Khorne was the first of the Great Gods of Chaos to awake fully, and Doombreed was one of the first of his servants. His true name has long been forgotten, but he was once human, a mighty warlord who led armies which ravaged entire nations on Earth long, long ago. His acts of genocide and murder pleased the young god Khorne, who rewarded him and made him one of his first Daemon Princes. Since then Doombreed has continued to serve Khorne well. Over the millennia, Doombreed has returned to slaughter the warriors of humanity countless times, his presence always inspiring bloodshed and war on an apocalyptic scale. Doombreed fought for his bloody master at the side of Warmaster Horus during the Heresy, and was aboard the Warmaster's battle barge when the Emperor attacked and Horus was slain. Of Doombreed's subsequent wars, there is no record.

There you go: all the canonical information there is on Doombreed. Note that the 4th ed. source shamelessly copies the 2nd ed. source and yet still manages to contradict other sources. Classy, GW.

Anyway, is Doombreed Adolf Hitler? *shrug* Was Hitler a 'mighty warlord' who 'ravaged entire nations' and committed 'genocide and murder'? You could characterise him like that. But human history is definitely not lacking in warlords who ravage entire nations and commit genocide and murder, and there's no particular reason to think it's Hitler as opposed to, say, Vlad Tepes. Pick any monster you like. We've got plenty to go around.

Of course, it seems to me that the real point here is that Doombreed's identity is irrelevant. Even he doesn't remember it. Keeping his identity mysterious makes Doombreed more archetypal; he is any and every blood-mad tyrant the human race has ever had to suffer under.
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Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2009, 07:09:29 PM »
 

Bumbles

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Well when was Khorne "born"?
IIRC was about the "Dark Ages", with Nurgle coming about during the Black Death and Tzeentch the Renaissance.

So he impressed "young Khorne" - that would (to my mind) imply a Medieval Warlord someone like Khan or Tepes.
 

Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2009, 10:53:14 AM »
 

Awfully Dandy

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Define young........

Anyway we all know that khorne blessed adolf to single handly win the battle of berlin and take over the USSR in an orgy of bloodlettting.

Not every evil thing is Hitler and in terms of martial prowess I doubt Hitler was that great.............. .......
 

Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2009, 12:32:34 PM »
 

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I think he is more suppose to represent Genghis Khan or some other bloodthirsty warlord (Alexander, Xerxes, Tamerlane, Attila whatever).
Alexander wasn't a bloodthirsty warlord though; he was an empire-builder. There is an empire of a difference.

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Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2009, 01:00:29 PM »
 

Benis

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Alexander wasn't a bloodthirsty warlord though; he was an empire-builder.

He was a man who marched armies across the Greece, middle-east and north Africa, conquering the realms, I fail to see how that does not make him a warlord. Sure he might have made nice changes to the scenery and tried to build an Empire but the same can be said of Genghis Khan and Tamerlane, it's just that we Europeans like to consider Alexander as a great chap who mainly built cities and spread the greco-persian culture through out barbaric regions.

This however is off topic...
 

Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2009, 07:13:05 PM »
 

Sir_Godspeed

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From what I recall, the Chaos Gods were said to have been "born" in the 1600s. Now as to whether this fluff should be considered facepalm or not is like always a question of angle.

For example (if the above fluff is indeed correct) then the 1600s could be a random coincidence with the Chaos Gods amassing enough strong emotions galaxy-wide during this period (from all kinds of species), on the other hand, one could consider humanity to be the proverbial drop in the glass, in other words; the extreme emotions of humanity was the last bit of energy the nascent Chaos Gods needed before the reached their hypothetic "critical mass".

If there were no such critical mass, then they could have existed in lesser forms for the majority of the galaxy's history.
 

Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2009, 05:18:55 AM »
 

CobraCommander

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Totally random with nothing to support either side but speculation, but. If Doombreed was so badass, why didn't he try and go slap happy on the Emperor/escort during the final battle?

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Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2009, 07:14:19 AM »
 

DOGGED

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I find it difficult that Doombreed can be Hitler. The beast is meant to have been a bloodthirsty warlord, one of the kind that gets to the fight (at least, almost) in the front lines, more in the likes of Gengis or Attila, or some crusader lords...
For me, Gengis was a keen man, not only lost by bloodlust, as were Attila or Tamerlane (I don't even consider Alexander). Simon de Montfort, on the other hand, actually was the kind of man who could become such a beast. Bloodthirsty beyond necessity, brutal, vain and false by nature, a mass murderer... By his own hands. Had he been killed before Muret, the whole history of the world could have changed (easily), saving a lot of bloodshed...
Hitler was a politician (a debased, depraved, degenerated, foolish one) when he sent millions to death. But he was not a warrior. Not the kind of Doombreed.
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Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2009, 10:35:45 AM »
 

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I would've said someone like Vlad the Impaler, or one of the warlords that degenerated into such acts of depravity because they could.

As Dogged says, Hitler was hardly the sort of person that would get his hands dirty.
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Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2009, 06:34:06 PM »
 

Sir_Godspeed

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The problem with many of these is that they're more likely to become champions of Tzeentch due to their incessant ambition and planning.
 

Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2009, 07:45:53 PM »
 

Sayt

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I would've said someone like Vlad the Impaler, or one of the warlords that degenerated into such acts of depravity because they could.

As Dogged says, Hitler was hardly the sort of person that would get his hands dirty.

I like the idea of Vlad being Doombreed, especially with Vlads...associeted myths...
 

Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2009, 08:41:54 PM »
 

Yarrik

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no, no, vlads body was frozen and became the basis of Sanguinises gene seed, but i agree, most of these suggestions have a tseentchian theme, more decietfull planning than outright bloodshed
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Re: Doombreed = Hitler?
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2009, 01:18:30 AM »
 

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I honestly don't think GW or BL would be so tacky as to try using a real world mass murderer as a basis for some bit of fluff.  Its rather offensive and is deeply insensitive to the victims of said butchers.

Besides, why have a feudal Barbarian as a champion when you could use the world destroying upstarts of the Dark Age of Technology?  From the accounts in some BL fiction there were more than enough to warrant Khorne's attention.
 

 


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