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1500 Eldar List - Competitive, but not Cheesy

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1500 Eldar List - Competitive, but not Cheesy
« on: June 24, 2009, 01:51:55 PM »
 

bluegdec1

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2 Autarchs
- mandiblaster
- fusion gun
- power sword
- shuriken pistol

1 x 7 Guardian Jetbike Squad
- 2 Shuriken Cannons
- Warlock w/ Embolden

1 x 7 Guardian Jetbike Squad
- 2 Shuriken Cannons
- Warlock w/ Embolden

1 x 7 Howling Banshees
- Exarch w/ Mirrorblades
- Wave Serpent

1 x 7 Fire Dragons
- Exarch with firepike and crack shot
- Wave Serpent

1 x 7 Warp Spiders
- Exarch w/ 2 Deathspinners

1 x 3 War Walkers
- 2 Shuriken Cannons

1 Wraithlord
- Eldar Missile Launcher, Flamers

General idea is to be able to reserve everything to guarantee myself first turn (depends on the army and situation). Come in, concentrate on a single portion of the army and obliterate it via volume of fire. Both Autarchs will roll with the banshees to add 12 power weapon attacks on the charge.

My only suspected change at this point would be the removal of an autarch and the addition of a Doomseer. I would lose the nearly guaranteed reserve rolls on turn 2, but gain wounding percentages on targets for the whole army. Any thoughts and critique are welcome: This is my first Eldar list (coming from Tyranids).

The multiple views + lack of replies must mean that I'm on the right track, hehe.

Please do not double post. Use the "modify" button instead.
-Lor.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 05:10:12 PM by Lorizael »
 

Re: 1500 Eldar List - Competitive, but not Cheesy
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2009, 04:36:59 PM »
 

Irisado

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Considering you only left two hours before replying to your own thread suggests that not enough of the regular army list reviewers had had the chance to look at this list more than it does anything else in my view  ;).

The list is a reasonable reserves list in my view, but I feel that there are a few areas that could be improved:

1. The Howling Banshee squad needs to be ten models strong in my view to be at its most effective.  Banshees are fragile, and tend to lose the odd model here and there even in combats when they dominate, so you need a large unit, so that it can absorb a few losses, and still be effective in combat.

This is especially true here, since you do not have a Farseer with Doom to help the Banshees out in close combat, which is always a risk in my view, meaning that a maximum sized unit is a must in my view.

2. Your Wave Serpents do not have Spirit Stones, and they need them.  You cannot afford for crew stunned results to leave them as sitting ducks, so I suggest finding the points to take these.

3. You don't list any turret weapons for your Serpents.  What are they equipped with?

4. The Fire Dragon Exarch isn't need with a pure anti-tank/elite MEQ unit in my view.  If you want to field a dual purpose Fire Dragon squad though, you could add an extra Fire Dragon, and give the Exarch the Dragon's Breath Flamer.

5. Having only Jetbikes as your scoring units is marginal, since they can be quite hard to protect from firepower.  I suggest, therefore, that you consider adding a third Wave Serpent transporting either Dire Avengers or Storm Guardians, or the Dire Avenger/Falcon combination as a third scoring unit.

6. The Wraithlord seems totally out of place in a mobile list such as this, and has no way of being protected against Wraithsight, so I recommend dropping it, and spending the points on another scoring unit (see point five).

7. I assume the War Walkers will outflank.  Is this correct?

Overall, it's a reasonable list, but it is probably one scoring unit light, and doesn't quite have as good a synergy as it could have, due to the presence of the Wraithlord.

I hope that helps.
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Re: 1500 Eldar List - Competitive, but not Cheesy
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2009, 08:30:05 PM »
 

Sludge_City

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I would certainly drop one Autarch for a 'Doomseer'; Banshees are so much more effective with Doom on their target. Also, I don't really see where a second Autarch would fit in the list, anyway. One in with the banshees...other... climbs trees for a while...hunts squirrels  :D

I would also say your Spider exarch could really use Powerblades, and Executioner is much much much better than Mirrorblades for the Banshee exarch.

Like Irisado said, WL is too static for this kind of list (found this out myself recently...didn't drop the WL...bought more and played Iyanden instead of Biel-tan mech :P ), drop for more troops or something :)

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Re: 1500 Eldar List - Competitive, but not Cheesy
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2009, 11:03:20 PM »
 

bluegdec1

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Thanks for the critique. Here's an updated list that takes some of your suggestions into account.

1 Autarch
- mandiblaster
- fusion gun
- power sword
- shuriken pistol

1 Doomseer
- Doom
- Runes of Warding and Witnessing

1 x 6 Guardian Jetbike Squad
- 2 Shuriken Cannons
- Warlock w/ Embolden

1 x 6 Guardian Jetbike Squad
- 2 Shuriken Cannons
- Warlock w/ Embolden

1 x 5 Guardian Jetbike Squad

1 x 8 Howling Banshees
- Exarch w/ Mirrorblades
- Wave Serpent w/ spirit stone, 2 twin-linked shuriken cannons

1 x 8 Fire Dragons, 2 twin-linked shuriken cannons
- Wave Serpent w/ spirit stone

1 x 5 Warp Spiders
- Exarch w/ 2 Deathspinners and powerblades

1 x 3 War Walkers
- 2 Shuriken Cannons

--

So, I increased the Howling Banshee to a squad size of 8, but didn't max it out; i think the additional wound allocation and invulnerable saves that are afforded the unit by attaching the farseer and the autarch will help make up for the loss of two bodies. Moreoever, the autarch alone is worth 2 banshees offensively on the charge, which also goes a long way. The addition of the Doomseer should also greatly decrease the amount of counter-attacks that the unit faces on the charge.

I also decided to include the Doomseer and ditch an Autarch, due to the utility of Doom and the Runes of Warding against most armies. I think I can accept the 3+ reserve rolls on turn 2 in exchange for making the entire army much more effective at dealing with an individual unit.

 Since I didn't have enough points for a unit of avengers or guardians in a wave serpent, i went with an additional 5 man squad of guardians.

Let me know how the revisions look, and thanks again!
 

Re: 1500 Eldar List - Competitive, but not Cheesy
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2009, 11:37:02 PM »
 

Aron Figaro

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This looks more or less like a Saim-Hann list, so I'm going to critique it as that, since I've become mildly enamored with the playstyle as of late.

1) Those Banshees still need more Banshees if they're going to kill anything. Load up, full squad.
2) Cannons in the Jetbike squads.
3) Drop the dragons down to 5 or 6
4) Drop the walkers and the spiders - they're going to be easy targets for your opponent's autocannons and such, instead of forcing them to fire at turbo-boosting jetbikes or vehicles.

With the points saved from the walkers and spiders, GET MORE TROOPS! You're going to want at least one fast, durable unit to take objectives late-game with. My recommendation here is a Fire Prism full of either Storm Guardians with two flamers and Destructor, or Dire Avengers with whatever you like on them.

Finally, I would slap some bright lances on the Banshee and DA/Stormy serpent for some anti-tank power, something for 1500 points your army very much lacks.
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Re: 1500 Eldar List - Competitive, but not Cheesy
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2009, 11:59:31 PM »
 

silverspindle

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i think you're getting close with this list
my suggestions to bring it up to speed are similar to
Quote from: Figaro
With the points saved from the walkers and spiders, GET MORE TROOPS! You're going to want at least one fast, durable unit to take objectives late-game with. My recommendation here is a Fire Prism full of either Storm Guardians with two flamers and Destructor, or Dire Avengers with whatever you like on them.

except I think the walkers are absolutely fine if you're still reserving stuff. trust me they're gold for coming in next to an enemies shooting squads, blasting them with shuriken and then charging to tie them up (or explode on them) indefinately.

i believe the spiders have to go because you just can't afford them with jetbikes as your main troops. only four and the exarch (powerweapons are hugely pointless unless you have autarch with the squad) means your shooting isn't really enough to make an impact and your assault jump is too open to chance. i also feel they're not as needed due to overlap in targets with the walkers.

to solidify the 3rd troops choice you get rid of the extra 5 jetbikes and change them for something tougher and just as fast.

with the points you simply get another waveserpent and bung in some storm guardians, taking your pick of warlocks and special weapons.

last thing you might want to think about is singing spears for your jetbike warlocks as it lets them hit tanks you arn't in range to assault and gives a solid punch to your s6 shuriken-cannons.
 

Re: 1500 Eldar List - Competitive, but not Cheesy
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2009, 06:41:52 AM »
 

Irisado

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So, I increased the Howling Banshee to a squad size of 8, but didn't max it out; i think the additional wound allocation and invulnerable saves that are afforded the unit by attaching the farseer and the autarch will help make up for the loss of two bodies.

I don't think attaching both HQs to one unit is a good idea.  Not only does it increases the unit's value in terms of kill points, but it also makes this squad a very tempting target for your opponent, and Howling Banshees are a tempting enough target for him/her without being led by two HQs, so I strongly suggest attaching the Autarch to a different unit.

This idea that the invulnerable saves will help you out is also slightly misplaced in my view.  Remember that these saves only help the Autarch and Farseer, and the unit will lost assault potential once Howling Banshees start falling, so I still believe you need ten, especially at this level of points.

The Farseer doesn't need Runes of Witnessing, as, in my opinion, they are an unnecessary safety net in view of the Farseer's high leadership, and they increase his/her chances of suffering a Perils of the Warp Attack too.

The third Guardian Jetbike squad needs to mirror the first if it is to be effective in my view.

Taking two main weapons on the Wave Serpents isn't necessary in my view, since if you are using them aggressively (which you will be in this list), they will be moving more than six inches most of the time, so they won't be able to fire the second Shuriken Cannon very often.  For this reason, I don't feel the second Shuriken Cannons are required.

The Fire Dragon squad only needs to be six models strong if you are not going to use it for a dual purpose role in my experience.

The Warp Spiders should not be assaulting in such small number in my view, although you may get away with it against some units if you attach the Autarch to them.  If you want to use them as a support assault unit to the Banshees though, Withdraw, in spite of the fact it is less helpful than it was in fourth edition, due to the defenders react rule, is still a must in my opinion.

Having only Guardian Jetbikes for your scoring units does look a bit brittle to me, and I still favour finding the points for a unit of Storm Guardians or Dire Avengers in a Wave Serpent in lieu of that third Jetbike squad.  Dropping the Warp Spiders or War Walkers would net you enough points, but if you are happy to risk fielding three units of Jetbikes, then that's fair enough, but it is a bit of a gamble in my opinion.

I hope that helps.
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