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Offline MalContent

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[Help] Rust effect?
« on: January 29, 2009, 07:07:01 PM »
http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=165707.20

This beautifully sculpted miniature has an amazing rust/corrosion effect done to it, and I was wondering how it was done if possible.

Also, if anyone has any experience with rust effects themselves, please feel free to share them.

What I plan to do is use some PVA glue and playground sand to create the texture around the edges of the armor. Base coat black, layer of boltgun, then do the rust effects in maybe a 1:1 mix of vermin brown and fiery orange, and then wash in Devlan mud. Would that give a suitably rusty effect or are there easier ways to do it?

Thanks,

~Mal
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Offline Raktra (So long, I guess)

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Re: [Help] Rust effect?
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2009, 07:10:21 PM »
I'm not too sure how this guy did it, but the Ogre Kingdoms army book has fantastic guides for rusty effects. Have a look at it.

Offline Changeyname

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Re: [Help] Rust effect?
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2009, 07:28:21 PM »
well i've done it myself a few times, never as outstanding as the one in that picture but heres how i did it, simple and clean, no muss no fuss:

start with scorched brown and stipple it on to the area you want rusted
next move up to the foundation calthan brown, repeat but with a lighter coat
next the same technique using the foundation macharius solar orange
finally a wash with ogryn flesh

i found the other washes too dark and toned the rust down to much for my liking but  play about with shades of browns and oranges and washes to get the effect you want

here's the finished version of my rust effect over in another topic

hope its some use to you anyway ;)
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Offline MalContent

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Re: [Help] Rust effect?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2009, 07:48:33 PM »
Raktra: I'll have to take a look at the book next time I go up to my LGS, as I don't personally play fantasy.

Changey: While definently a pretty good effect, it makes me wonder what it would look like on metalics.....

~Mal
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Offline Changeyname

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Re: [Help] Rust effect?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2009, 07:53:54 PM »
i'll let you know tomorrow
i'm finishing my BW at the moment and its gunna have the same rust effect over a darkened boltgun (its had a few badab washes so its dull but still obviously metallic)

will post the pictures here or give you a link if i put it in the painting forum (probably be the latter to be honest)
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Offline MalContent

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Re: [Help] Rust effect?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2009, 07:54:35 PM »
i'll let you know tomorrow
i'm finishing my BW at the moment and its gunna have the same rust effect over a darkened boltgun (its had a few badab washes so its dull but still obviously metallic)

will post the pictures here or give you a link if i put it in the painting forum (probably be the latter to be honest)

Thanks  ;D
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Offline Skeeve

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Re: [Help] Rust effect?
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2009, 09:03:56 PM »
Having done some fair amount of various rust
http://blog.coolminiornot.com/skeeve/note/984/assault-on-black-reach-ork-
(base) http://blog.coolminiornot.com/skeeve/note/904/28mm-inquisitor-eisenhorn-by-black-library.html
http://blog.coolminiornot.com/skeeve/note/876/grumlok-and-gazbag-age-of-reckoning.html
http://blog.coolminiornot.com/skeeve/note/739/mek-with-shock-attack-gun-last.html
http://blog.coolminiornot.com/skeeve/note/420/new-chaos-spawn-done.html

(hmm looks like half of my display minies have rust, i wonder why....)

I would suggest avoiding sand. The main reason is that  your ordinary sand is "out of scale" with things like rust damage and will look very strange on a 28 mm mini. Think of it. how many "grains" of sand can you put into a marine hand - rather few actually, for a marine your sand is like a rather large gravel. You can use MIG pigments (or tamya weathering system, or simply brown pastel). Another good alternative is Gale Force number 9 Ash waste - it is much much finer then sand.As for specific color what you propose will work to spice it up I would add some red and blue in places


Offline Dux Aurelius Elysius

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Re: [Help] Rust effect?
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2009, 09:46:47 PM »
I'm not enamoured with the final effect of the rust in the OP.  Looks much better in the WiP picture.  At a guess I would say on the axe the rust has been stippled on and for other sections a wash used.

For clarity, stippling is where you take a stiff bristled brush, get some paint on it but remove most (do not remove as much as if you were drybrushing) and then vertically jabbing at the area you want the paint which, because of the stiff bristles, gets a dotted effect.
Washing is where you take your paint, water it down a lot before applying it to the model and this way it pools more to the recesses.

For the axe:
Paint bolt gun metal.
Stipple on bestial brown.
Stipple on vermin brown.
Streak chain mail/mithril silver onto the blade and highlight as wished.  Do this in areas that would see the most use or abrasion as they would be the most highly polished and rust that forms would be removed through use (fun, huh?)
Stipple on vermin mixed with blazing orange.

For other areas: (I suggest doing a google image search on rust to get some reference images)
Paint model as normal, highlighting to satisfactory standards ignorant of rust.
Paint areas where you want rust with bestial brown.
Wash these areas with vermin brown.
Wash parts of these with a mix of vermin brown and blazing orange.
It looks to me like solitaire took his mix right up to straight blazing orange, which I consider too bright for an aesthetically pleasing rust.

Use your own discretion with how to shade the colours, how heavy to make particular stages etc.  If you want it darker, mix the bestial brown toward scorched brown with a little blazing orange (to maintain the "oranged" look you get with rusts).  If you want it lighter use it closer to blazing orange for the finished colour.

Because rust doesn't oxidise completely evenly and you get patchy bright areas that are not "logical" to the way you'd highlight a model (in the same way that painting flame does not follow standard logic) I cannot emphasise enough he importance of finding some good references that show how much rust you want and using them while painting.  In my opinion the rust on the Death Guard is too bright and too clean, especially given the setting, and while excellent can be improved upon if you use reference to see how the rust would actually settle.  These photos look like an extremely good reference.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 10:17:01 PM by Dux Aurelius Elysius »
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Offline MalContent

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Re: [Help] Rust effect?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2009, 09:53:21 PM »
-snip-

Wow, those are pretty impressive...But as for the pigments, I've heard of them and I've heard they work well but they don't give any texture to the model do they? If not that's fine, but I'm just trying to find what looks best.

I ordered a bunch of Deathguard kits from FW recently and looking at their armor I figured it might look kinda good painted up like rusting iron. Either that or some other more classic Plaguemarine theme.

Rust collecting on the edges, around the rivets, and streaking down from where the armor is torn from mutation, to me, would look amazing.

You wouldn't happen to have any tips for using said pigments would you? Maybe a few pointers on how to achieve the rust streaks?

Lastly, out of the pigments listed, which do you think looks/works best to give that rusted iron appearance?

Thanks,

~Mal

Edit: Thanks for the tips Elysius, I'll try out both methods and see which effect I like better for the models!
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Offline Dux Aurelius Elysius

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Re: [Help] Rust effect?
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2009, 10:16:29 PM »
Err ... was originally put into my previous post but it was edited in after you made you post.  Consider that I've used Mig Pigments, which are very good but not the easiest, so that's what I refer to.  I have no experience with Tamiya weathering.  The next two paragraphs are my general statements that I made at the time, then I'll address your specific questions.

As Skeeve mentioned, there are specifically designed products from other companies that are specifically for rust effects.  I would not advise Mig Pigments for beginner painters because they're incredibly difficult to control and easily get everywhere.  The colours in the GW palette, bestial brown; vermin brown and blazing orange are well suited towards painting rust and because they're a medium you'll be more used to, you may find them easier to get along with.

If you do pick up any rust shade Mig Pigments I suggest also picking up either the pigment fixer or the thinner for washes.  These will allow you to set the pigment so they won't be rubbed off, and can also be mixed with the pigment so you can use it like a wash with much more control (water works, but not so well).  Also, don't use any brushes you like when using pigment because you'll never get it truly out of the bristles.  If you want to just brush on the pigment without any water, that works fine for affect if you want a lighter colouring but isn't the easiest of controlling where it will end, and is hard to fix in place (the pigment fixer will still dislodge it unless you find a way to dispense it from an atomiser of some sort.)

No, pigments do not leave texture on the model.  They're far finer than that.  I haven't tried GF9 Ash Waste but from what I've seen of their stuff it tends to be good stuff so is probably worth looking into if you're determined for that.  28mm I'd say goes a little to egregious levels of detail and tends to look ungainly.  With 54mm it can work if you can find something fine enough, so ash wastes may be worth looking into.

As for how to achieve rust streaks, using pigments I'd suggest the shade Light Rust, watered down and then painted on with a very fine brush.  Personally I use the pigment fixer because it helps the pigment dry out faster and ensures it's better fixed.  Or vermin brown 50/50 blazing orange, watered down and painted on works fine and you tend to have a little more control.

Shades to buy I'd say Light Rust and Old Rust.  You can mix the two for a mid-rust that you'd get from Standard Rust so it's not really needed.

Again though, don't use pigments unless you're looking for the challenge to improve.  If you want something that's easy and quick for army painting, stick with the paints I suggested in my previous post.  You won't notice too much difference to the final results.  Pigments get absolutely everywhere (I'm usually quite a clean painter but I still manage to get them under my nails, on my face ...), and are hard to control for getting on the model (they don't flow quite the same as paint if you liquidise them, and if you keep them dry they don't settle in just one spot and can take a bit of time layering them.)  If you enjoy painting for the sake of painting, by all means pick some up and have a play - I love mine, and prefer to use them over standard paint for rust because it means I have to use slightly different techniques and approach.  But if you're just looking for a speed paint rust effect for your army, pass them up.

I have a model nearing completion that I've used both pigments and paint on for the rust effect (I was testing the difference).  I'll try to remember to get some pictures in the light of day tomorrow and get them posted up.  There's really very little difference in finished result.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2009, 10:18:01 PM by Dux Aurelius Elysius »
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Offline MalContent

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Re: [Help] Rust effect?
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2009, 10:35:39 PM »
I think I might try both the GF9 Ash Waste flocking and the pigments together to see what sort of effect I can manage. Of course, I'm going to test on a non-FW model first to see how everything works, but once I can get my hands on the ingredients I'll post some pics of the tester.

I appreciate all the help everyone. I'm new to painting, so all this is definently useful. Also, I'm not too afraid of trying the pigments, I'm a pretty neat painter myself.  ;D

~Mal
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Offline Alienscar

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Re: [Help] Rust effect?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2009, 08:02:29 AM »
Take a look at this post by Saucey http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=174296.msg2125268#msg2125268. The rust is some of the best I've seen. Saucey also details how the rust effect was achieved later in the post.
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Offline MalContent

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More Rust Help AND Gore-streaked armor
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2009, 06:47:15 PM »
Here I am again!

I've tried out a few rust effects using just boltgun, bestial brown, and blazing orange, but I can't seem to find one that looks 'rusty' enough. It all ends up just looking either too much like dull metal or the rust color stands out too much against the background metal.

Does anyone have a suggestion on a technique I can use to make it work better?

I've got citadel colors and washes available to me, along with Tamiya Clear Red, but that's it. (Scorched brown, all oranges, bestial brown, all metals, all greens, bleached bone, and all foundations and washes)

--------------------------------

Second problem:

I was wondering if a concept of gore-streaked armor would look good at all on my what are essentially plague marines. As in, lightly rusted looking metal armor with gore effects streaking down it.

If anyone has any pictures where they have used the Tamiya Clear Red style for blood on metal, I'd appreciate them to see what it looks like.

Thanks for the help guys, as always!

~Mal
« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 06:49:18 PM by MalContent »
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Offline Fafnir

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Re: More Rust Help AND Gore-streaked armor
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2009, 10:19:34 PM »
I used testors red drybrushed onto a semi-wet model. In case you're wondering, it was wet because of a wash, not because of actual paint.

Offline Dux Aurelius Elysius

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Re: More Rust Help AND Gore-streaked armor
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2009, 10:25:52 PM »
Ok ... so despite the fact that posts pertaining to rust should've been put into the rust post of yours that's linked to in the sticky, what did you do with the paints.  Tell us how you used them, with pictures.  Simply saying "Oh I used colours x, y and z" really isn't telling us much at all.  Were you stippling them on and then drybrushing over? Were you painting metals and then washing the rust colours on?  Did you use any reference pictures? Rust stands out.

As for gore streaks, 99% of models it looks tacky on.  Do you want fresh gore (a brighter red), or old, dried on gore (blood goes a dark near-brown when dry).  Where would you put it?  All over the model?  Just on weapons?  Just on select models or the entire army?
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Offline MalContent

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Re: More Rust Help AND Gore-streaked armor
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2009, 11:46:55 PM »
I hadn't realized my thread had been stickied, as I can't even find it by searching 'rust' in the search engine. That, and I kind of avoid reading the sticky thread....

Anyway, I don't have pictures because I don't have a camera.

Other questions:

1. Basecoated Chaos Black
2. Stippled(to the best of my knowledge) on Bestial Brown in places I wanted rust.
3. Stippled on Blazing Orange in select places over the bestial brown
Drybrushed with boltgun metal

At that point I still didn't like how it looked, so I tried reapplying Step 2 and 3 to see if it would look better. It didnt.

The gore would be used on select weapons and wherever there is a cracks in the armor from damage (see FW deathguard if you don't know what I mean) and possibly on select weapons, select bases, etc. I was thinking of using a daker red, but still fresh blood. If it was a bright red it would stand out too much against most nurgle paint schemes.

I've never done non-wash washing either, if anyone has an example of the effect given I'll try my hand at it.

~Mal
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Offline Dux Aurelius Elysius

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Re: More Rust Help AND Gore-streaked armor
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2009, 11:53:14 AM »
Non-wash washing?

Also: zing

[smg id=3259]

This the sort of look you're aiming for?

That was mig pigments, using the fixer to thin them for a wash (though I'm assuming the actual product designed for washes is better, I don't have any of that).  All three colours, layered from dark to light with light tending to be where you'd see the "fresher" rust but essentially just layered randomly until it achieved the right sort of look I wanted.

Because pigments are very hard to control and tend to get everywhere, once dry I went back with the metallic paint to block out the parts that I didn't want to have rusty, to confirm the "streak" look.  It's a WiP so the metal hasn't been blending back to the original basecoat yet.

Comparative colours that you can use would be bestial brown, vermin brown and blazing orange with some vermin brown mixed in.  Wash rather than stippling, because stippling never really looks nice if you're leaving that as the finished effect and you get less control of where the colour ends up.  You should:

Paint the main layer properly first (so if it's armour, paint it as you would if it were normal clean armour)
Apply rust effects
Go over to push back the rust where it's gotten carried away, with the main base colours

Also, don't drybrush with your metallics.  Water them down and paint them on properly.  Otherwise you'll never be able to control where you get a good finish which is why you swing between REALLY RUSTY or just weird looking metal.  In fact I'd go so far to say that never dry brush anything.  Ever.  It's only useful if you're only painting to get a game ready army ASAP.
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Offline MalContent

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Re: More Rust Help AND Gore-streaked armor
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2009, 12:50:32 PM »
As in, using paints as washes instead of using the GW products that are actually labeled washes (i.e. Sepia, Flesh, Badab, Mahoganny, etc)

Also, wow, that is a really nice effect....That's almost exactly what I was wanting to go with originally, but I figured patched rust would be easier than doing streaks so I abandoned the idea....I'll have to go to my local hobby lobby/ Michael's to try and find some of that pigment....

The colors are something like Light rust, medium rust, and heavy rust, right?

Either way, thanks for your help, if possible I'll post up my PM's once I get one or two done.

~Mal

P.s. For the lining between those plates, did you use a Micron pen or did you wash/do it by hand? I've heard good things about the pen, just thought I'd ask someone who would know.  ;D
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Offline Dux Aurelius Elysius

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Re: More Rust Help AND Gore-streaked armor
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2009, 01:08:38 PM »
I've never used a pen so I can't comment.  Just watered down black paint is what I usually use, add in some PVA glue and it really draws it into the recesses.  It looks quite messy on this model because, as I say, there's still a fair amount to do blending the colours together before I'd consider it finished and it's been slightly put on the backburner for other projects (such as my Eisenhorn that's in my avatar).

A wash is literally just slopping on heavily watered down paint.  You can make into a glaze (so that it doesn't pool but instead has a translucent quality) by using a medium instead of quite so much water, or you can make it cling to the recesses by adding PVA glue (which contracts as it dries).  The latter is basically all the GW "washes" are.

Get some paint, water it down a fair amount and take some onto the brush.  Because it's so wet, for doing streaks you'll want to take some off onto the palette and then simply apply it to the model.  If it pools too much, or runs too much, then take that layer off and add more paint into the mix.  Keep in mind three things when you're applying the paint and you can't go far wrong:
  • The wetter the paint the more it will pool to crevices.  If it's pooling too much, or acting like big drops on the surface, use more paint.  You want some pooling when painting rust because it tends to form from the recesses and then work down.  You don't want too much pooling or it will just look silly.
  • Gravity.  Usually when using a heavy wash for shading I'll turn the model upside down while applying paint and letting it dry.  Gravity helps the paint run down, so be prepared for this.  If you find the streaks are "dripping" you're using too much paint on your brush.
  • Pigment is the heaviest at the end of the brush stroke.  Start from the end of the streak and finish with the brush at the source point.  This'll help to blend the streak out more naturally if you're using small amounts of watered down paint on the brush.

The mig pigments for rust are Light Rust, Standard Rust and Old Rust.
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