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Offline scotatheist

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Help a first time painter
« on: December 8, 2008, 12:10:38 PM »
Hi guys, I have just started painting eldar scorpions.

I have primed them chaos black (spray) and I have given them about 3 basecoats of dark angels green. I am currently moving onto covering it with watered down snot green and I have a few problems.

1. There is so much detail that the snot green just goes into every recess, their is really no way to control the paint flow.

2. It doesnt show over the dark angles green

does anyone have any tips they could give me, it would be much apprectiated.

cheers :D


Offline Da Pittman

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Re: Help a first time painter
« Reply #1 on: December 8, 2008, 12:33:11 PM »
If you are doing a wash from what it sounds like then it should be a darker color, if you are using a lighter color then you should do a dry brush of a lighter color.

Offline moc065

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Re: Help a first time painter
« Reply #2 on: December 8, 2008, 02:32:58 PM »
Or you can keep your paint as it is, and simply wipe off a lot of the snot green prior to painting on the figure...(use a wet pallet)... then use multiple layers to blend it outwards to the edges.

Seriously your doing it right, it just take practise and maybe the right Pallet (wet sponge with wax paper on it) or google Wet Pallet for the high end versions. A glaze medium can also help to keep the paint precisely where you apply it.

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Offline scotatheist

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Re: Help a first time painter
« Reply #3 on: December 8, 2008, 02:38:10 PM »
Thnaks very much, when I thinned the paint 1:1 water and dark angels green; it looked fantastic. The Snot green is a little harder. I know the worst thing you can do is rush it. I have patience and if it takes me 2 - 3 weeks to paint them, then it takes 2 - 3 weeks.

When I tried a scorpion highlight over the snot green it looked too bold. I was thinking of mixing scorpions green and snot green, watering it down and then apllying that to the edges of the armour do you think that will work ?

Oh yeah and the previous poster mentioned a wash, when would I apply a wash and when do you think it should be done; before highlighting ?
« Last Edit: December 8, 2008, 02:39:31 PM by scotatheist »

Offline moc065

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Re: Help a first time painter
« Reply #4 on: December 8, 2008, 02:48:04 PM »
Washes can be good if applied just before the final highlight; but its not always needed... mixing Snot and DA green in a good idea to help the blend process even more, and then do pure Snot, followed by Goblin Green after that... but it really depends on how much contrast you want.

Here is link to a figure I did with the colours you mentioned... and I have a write up on how each step was done.... My method is fast and I can do it; but many people prefer to use your method of layers (me too actually but I needed these guys done faster)... In that section (my projects) you will see several figures done in this style.. if this is the effect your looking for, then let me know and I will try and help you more with the Thin Layered Wet Blend style... if I am out to lunch, then let me know, and I might help you in a different manner.... PS... if you had a pic of what your trying to achieve it really would help.

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Offline scotatheist

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Re: Help a first time painter
« Reply #5 on: December 8, 2008, 03:15:36 PM »
Thanks very much the article help enormously. I am starting to get the hang of blending, it will take me a few more attempts till it looks more conisitant but I am starting to better understand the technique. Thanks a lot for your help.  ;D

Offline moc065

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Re: Help a first time painter
« Reply #6 on: December 9, 2008, 06:32:14 AM »
Your Welcome...

And here is another Link for you... it is all Scorpions and there all done in Greens... there is also a little write up I did on their gear and some tactica.... Take a look at those pics too and let me know if if any of them suit your end goal... I might be able to help you paint them that way.. Although I always prefered a slightly Darker feel to my Eldar.

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Offline scotatheist

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Re: Help a first time painter
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2008, 02:15:21 PM »
Thanks again, this article helped even more. I can see how you have blended the colours on the scorpions helmet. That is an area that is given me most problems; being a large flat featurless area. I have 2 models soaking in white spirit :D thanks to me screwing up the helmet.

I will give it another bash. I can see you go lighter the further down the hlemt you go is this correct ?.

Offline moc065

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Re: Help a first time painter
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2008, 02:33:24 PM »
I did not paint that figure. (but I can tell you how to)



It Looks like it was based with Snot green and then wet blended with Goblin Green, Scorpion Green and Yellow to cover 70-80% of each panel; simply adding the lighter colours to the mix as you do each portion, and wet blending all the while... Then extreme highlighting with pure yellow.

The guy is a very good painter, and he did this one on commission for Lazarus... I will be doing something very simular with my Scorpions; but maybe if you showed a pic of your first stage, second etc.. it would help me explain what is good or how to correct things a touch.

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Offline scotatheist

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Re: Help a first time painter
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2008, 03:36:10 PM »
Thanks a lot. Unfortunatley I do not have a dig cam or webcam, however I still very much appreciate your advice and input.  :D

Offline moc065

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Re: Help a first time painter
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2008, 05:48:03 PM »
Here is a Paint page Link that might help you out.

Here is an UltraMarine I did with Wetblend techneques... its done with blue; but switch in Green and it would work... Sorry for the subpare pics, I did them years ago.

Here is the same thing done with Reds... (I did this years ago also, so once again sorry for the sub-par pic)


The trick is to work on one panel or small section at a time (for me) doing multiple layers with the addition of the lighter paint to the pallet as I go. Patience and practice give great results... So do the feet first and work your way up to the more looked at areas. OK

CaHG
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 05:49:12 PM by moc065 »
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Offline scarecrow260584

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Re: Help a first time painter
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2008, 09:03:33 PM »
ive recently painted my scorpions in that green colour scheme, except im far from happy with the paint job.  I still dont really get the wet blending technique.  My understanding of it is that i put the darker colour down on the whole panel, then whilst its still wet, put down the next colour, and pull the lighter colour into the darker colour with a different brush.  Then do the same thing again with lighter and lighter shades.  Is this even correct.  Do i need to be watering the paints down?  if you could explain the technique in laymans terms, it would help me immensely.

Offline moc065

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Re: Help a first time painter
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2008, 10:20:31 PM »
OK, I figured out a simple way to help you out... I will simply paint a Scorpion here in the colours you like.... I will take several pics as I go, explain brush techniques, and paint consistancies... It will begin tomorrow, with upload of pics probably over the weekend... So by Monday I might have the Greens done, and you can check out how I do it... There are several methods, so my way is not the only way...

Do you think that will work.

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Offline ShasO Kodel

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Paint Pooling/Color problem
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2008, 01:00:16 PM »
Running into a odd situation. Finally able to basecoat my figures without them turning to crap, now I think its a color problem. I'm doing Tau armor, using midnight blue and red gore as the primary colors on a black primer spray. This is offset by boltgun metal bandings and pads. The idea was a night fighting unit, dark urban colors with bright reflective surfaces to break up their figures at a distance.

The first problem mainly is on my hammerhead, though its also on my fire warriors to a smaller extent. Any large flat surface really. When I paint the coat on, the paint particles sort of congeal. They don't lump, so its not a problem with the substance itself, but its like looking at a topogrpahical map almost, black going to blue or red. I've been using arylic flow improver for a while now, and that seesm to help some, but is this a different problem that I'm jsut not seeing.

Also, does anyone else here use a dark color scheme that can help with the color problem I'm looking at? In addition to the pooling thing, the color just never looks blue, just black with blue mottling. Am I wasting my time trying to paint a dark color on black primer, or am I approaching it wrong, that I should start with a lighter color and paint down, or something? I'll try and post some pics later.

Offline finoro

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Re: Paint Pooling/Color problem
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2008, 03:20:13 AM »
The biggest problem is that you are using two colours that are notorious for not being opaque. Midnight blue has loads of pigment in it as you can tell if you try to match Enchated blue by adding white to it, you need loads of white, but it always allows the undercoat to show through. It has been discontinued now, probably for this reason. Reds do not cover well either and you cant add white to make them cover because it turns pink or black because they turn reddish brown.

Try using some foundation paints as a base or if you do not want to shell out on more paint you could add some white to the blue. Not a lot but just enough to get away from the whole it looks black with blue bits thing. You can then go over again with pure Midnight to darken it if needed.
I would also basecoat the red bits blue. This will not look very bright when you have put the red on top. Red going to dark red then purple is quite a nice transition.
Don't trust me? Mix a little Ench blue with Blood red. How dark is that?

Last thing stir your paints really well, shaking is not enough. They can still look like paint when most of the colour has settled to the bottom of the pot.
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Offline scotatheist

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Re: Help a first time painter
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2008, 12:36:00 PM »
Brilliant idea, I look forward to it.  ;)

Offline moc065

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Re: Help a first time painter
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2008, 08:02:05 PM »
OK, the following is how I Wet Pallet paint (several Thin layers)... and Wet Blending is different so I'll do that one later if needes be. OK, click on any picture to bring up larger, OK: Here goes.

  • Have a figure all primed up.. I use Black 9/10 times for a thicker heavier feel to the finished product.


  • Get a tupperware tub or something simular that you can put a flat sponge into, and make sure the sponge is damp.
  • Add a layer of Cooking paper (the think stuff you get in the bakers section at the supermarket.
  • Once the cooing paper is saturated, add a blob of the darkest paint your using (Dark Angles Green shown here).
  • I like a standard Brush so I load the tip and get ready to paint.
  • I paint the one area that I wish to focus on (like base coating)
 

  • Next I add a blob of the next colour of paint (Snot Green) and mix it with some of the Previous colour to get a blend.
  • Apply the blended colour onto about 90% of the area being painted, focusing on higher of more lighted areas.
  • Then do a layer with just hte newest colour (Snot Green)... and continue to cover about 90% of the last layer.

Note that I never cleaned the brush at any time, and the paint is staying workable because the Pallet is wet... I also twist the brush continually on the pallat to keep the tip very sharp, and actually add more water as needed to keep the paint about the consistancy of condensed milk.


  • Continueing through the paint colour to the next lighest colout (goblin green) I do the same thing, still using a Standard brush.
  • This is the figure after both the mixed and the full goblin green coat, but still only covering about 90% of each of the previous layers.


  • Same idea now with Scorpion Green
  • Mixed layer.
  • full Scorpion Green layer


  • Same idea now with Sunburst Yellow
  • Mixed layer.
  • Line hte edges with pure Yellow


I hope that helps in some way CaHG
 
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 08:11:17 PM by moc065 »
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Offline scotatheist

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Re: Help a first time painter
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2008, 08:35:46 AM »
beutiful, really helped cheers.  ;D ;)

Offline moc065

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Re: Help a first time painter
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2008, 01:16:48 PM »
Glad to have helped in some small way... let me knkow if you need anything else like this, or where I can make it better for you to use... Oh and note the consistancy of the paint on the Pallet in that last pic row, its actualy see through.

CaHG
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