News:

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish  (Read 887 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

  • Can't Touch This; Captain; Swarmlord - Tyranid Sweatshop Operator; 40KO's Official WMD; "No American orphans, please"
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13094
  • Country: gb
  • I kill, maim and torture because I care
1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« on: March 7, 2011, 10:05:47 AM »
I'm looking for some constructive criticism on this from more experienced chaos players than I. The list is intended for use in friendly tournaments (i.e. not GTs and so on), but I'd quite like it to be at least moderately effective

Total= 1735 points
HQ
Chaos Lord= 130 points
   Terminator armour
   Pair of lightning claws
Troops
7 Chaos Space Marines= 200 points
   Meltagun
   Icon of Chaos Glory
   Aspiring Champion with power fist
   Rhino
7 Chaos Space Marines= 200 points
   Meltagun
   Icon of Chaos Glory
   Aspiring Champion with power fist
   Rhino
7 Chaos Space Marines= 200 points
   Meltagun
   Icon of Chaos Glory
   Aspiring Champion with power fist
   Rhino
7 Chaos Space Marines= 200 points
   Meltagun
   Icon of Chaos Glory
   Aspiring Champion with power fist
   Rhino
Elites
4 Terminators= 430 points
   Icon of Chaos Glory & lightning claws
   Heavy flamer
   2 champions with chainfists
   Land Raider with combi-melta, extra armour
Heavy Support
2 Obliterators= 150 points
2 Obliterators= 150 points
1 Obliterator= 75 points

The forum rules are fair and just. *twitch*

Offline Hymirl, Space Machine!

  • 40KO's Care Bear of Spite | Dolphin Death Dealer | 40K Oracle
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10582
  • Country: gb
  • Str 4, AP 5, Assault 1, Template
    • The Bristol Vanguard Wargaming Club
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #1 on: March 7, 2011, 11:05:00 AM »
I like chaos space marine units, they're solid and decent value. That said, I'd probably look at consolidating a unit or two to get ten man units for the additional special weapon.. having two meltaguns is great fun particularly because if you only have one the numpty holding it will fire it into the ground/air/a tree at some essential moment.

The other unit that would be really useful is to turn one squad into chosen, being able to outflank with a rhino gives them a really useful surprise ability. Keep them cheap and load them with meltaguns and you've got a good spanner to throw in the works of enemy armies. Very useful against forces that fire from long range.

Although your options with the terminators might be limited, I'd think about giving them a sprinkling of combi-weapons. A couple of combi-meltas are great to bust a transport so you can charge the contents. Its so cheap that I wouldn't pass it by, probably giving up the dual lightning claws if you're not already limited on toys.
Rules Expert 2007 | Kijayle Commemorative Award for Acid Wit 2008 | Most Notoriously Valuable Rules Expert 2009

http://www.bristolvanguard.co.uk

Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

  • Can't Touch This; Captain; Swarmlord - Tyranid Sweatshop Operator; 40KO's Official WMD; "No American orphans, please"
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13094
  • Country: gb
  • I kill, maim and torture because I care
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #2 on: March 7, 2011, 11:14:12 AM »
The problem I have is that in order to consolidate them into ten man units I end up losing a lot of other stuff in order to find the points for them. In my experience I tend to have a lot of trouble in objective games because of not having enough scoring units. That being said I'll play around with this and see what I can come up with. I agree with your suggestions, especially about the chosen as they are kind of the Alpha Legion's signature unit
The forum rules are fair and just. *twitch*

Offline Hymirl, Space Machine!

  • 40KO's Care Bear of Spite | Dolphin Death Dealer | 40K Oracle
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10582
  • Country: gb
  • Str 4, AP 5, Assault 1, Template
    • The Bristol Vanguard Wargaming Club
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #3 on: March 7, 2011, 11:24:52 AM »
Thats a fair comment to be honest, I don't think you'd really want less than 3 scoring units. Perhaps losing the lone obliterator would give you points to throw combi-meltas onto all the unit champions? My Space Wolves run with squads more or less similar with a melta+combi melta and I find the extra shot is enough to make it less of a gamble... normally I find when you need to use a meltagun, you're in a situation where you'd really like it to work!

The leftover can be used to beef up one unit into a squad of chosen. As you say, they're the signature sneaky marines!
Rules Expert 2007 | Kijayle Commemorative Award for Acid Wit 2008 | Most Notoriously Valuable Rules Expert 2009

http://www.bristolvanguard.co.uk

Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

  • Can't Touch This; Captain; Swarmlord - Tyranid Sweatshop Operator; 40KO's Official WMD; "No American orphans, please"
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13094
  • Country: gb
  • I kill, maim and torture because I care
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #4 on: March 7, 2011, 11:45:31 AM »
That all sounds good to me. Thinking about it, I could also drop the CSM squads down to 6, as either way they will be taking a morale check when the fourth man goes down. I think that does leave them a little small though, 7 is a decent size for standard marines but 6 seems a little low to me. I agree with your comments about having a second melta option, I often have the same experience as you in needing a spare. Maybe it will be less of a big deal if I take a suicide chosen squad packing meltas
The forum rules are fair and just. *twitch*

Offline Mrs. Brisby

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 65
  • Country: 00
  • being evil is fun
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #5 on: March 7, 2011, 12:37:10 PM »
I agree with Hymirl your units are small. Toss one of the 7 man squads away.

using the points saved up get some special weapons and a combi weapon on your champs.
yes this means you will have less troops but now your troops are less likely run and can dish out more damage.

your terminators (commander included) might be better if they were given a more specific job if you were to deep strike them giving them some combi weapons would help you. Also let you toss the land raider which could free up some room for those chosen you were thinking about.(or more troops)

The terminators set up I use is normally bare bones just with combi melta/plasma IoCG and one chain fist. If I have extra points I am not spending else where. I might give them a lighting claw to improve their ability to wound in combat.
play around a bit with different list Ideas

Hope this helps.
If you know where this is from good for you
go get your self a cookie

Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

  • Can't Touch This; Captain; Swarmlord - Tyranid Sweatshop Operator; 40KO's Official WMD; "No American orphans, please"
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13094
  • Country: gb
  • I kill, maim and torture because I care
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #6 on: March 7, 2011, 06:19:22 PM »
The main reason I have the Land Raider in there is that it's nice for the terminators to have a ride, and it takes some of the enemy AT heat off my Rhino. It's true that my Terminators don't really have a specific role, but to be fair that's kind of how I wanted them: capable but not exceptional generalists who can do reasonably well against almost anything. They are there as a sort of mobile reserve, meant to be able to handle almost anything they need to
The forum rules are fair and just. *twitch*

Offline ReaperGrim

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 834
  • Country: 00
  • BFTMFBG!!!
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #7 on: March 7, 2011, 09:48:14 PM »
They are there as a sort of mobile reserve, meant to be able to handle almost anything they need to

I've used a Landraider in this way before and it can be very effective.  It allows you to use the lascannons for a few turns and then deliver a deadly payload into any fight where it is needed most.  Great for breaking through enemy lines and smashing late game objectives.  I use Berserkers though, nobody is better on the charge and more worthy of a LR. 

As for the troops, I've never been a fan of taking any CSM squad at less than 10 models.  The extra bodies makes a big difference when in combat and rapid firing and of course the extra wounds help, not to mention the whole special weapon situation.  In this instance I might recommend Plague Marines for the job.  They are a unit you can get with min sizing and not have to lose a special weapon as well as tough as nails.  You could get 3x 7 man PM squads with double melta and fist champ in a rhino with a few points to spare (32?).   

I get not wanting to drop below 4 scoring units, but if you were to drop the termies for an 8 man zerker squad with fist champ like I mentioned you would have 4 scoring units.  Of course the LR would become heavy support, meaning you'd have to drop the single oblit, but the LR can fire 2 las for a few turns just the same.  That gives you some extra points to spread around as well.  Combi-flamer PM champs?  yes please!  ;D

Sorry if that seemed like me re-writing your list, not my intention. I'm just throwing some ideas at you about different units doing similar jobs.    :)
The world will look up and shout "Save us!", and I will whisper "No..."
"The Sons of Slaughter" death toll:
             W/L/D - 23/5/3

Offline archonoftheredhand

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1188
  • Country: be
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #8 on: March 8, 2011, 12:58:02 AM »
That list looks really good.
If you take a termie lord, a LR is a must IMO. DS is good for combiweapon delivery not for CC troops.

I would take 2 squads with melta and 2 with flamer. You have a good deal of AT and a flamer can be nice to toast some orks etc.
Flamers can be used single but I agree that the melta's can use backup. If you take the flamers and drop the combimelta on the LR or a chainfist you can have combimeltas on your meltasquad Champs.

Offline ReaperGrim

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 834
  • Country: 00
  • BFTMFBG!!!
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #9 on: March 8, 2011, 08:57:56 AM »
Ah crap!  I just realized that your going for an Alpha Legion-esque force, which renders most of my cult troop recommendations moot. 

That being said, I think Arcon has the right idea.  Using combi-weapons on the champs can help to compensate for the lose of the second special weapon.  A flamer squad somewhere could be useful as well, seeing as hordes could very well be the bane of this list. 
The world will look up and shout "Save us!", and I will whisper "No..."
"The Sons of Slaughter" death toll:
             W/L/D - 23/5/3

Offline Mrs. Brisby

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 65
  • Country: 00
  • being evil is fun
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #10 on: March 8, 2011, 10:45:32 AM »
okay so you want to keep your terminators and use the land raider to try and redirect most of the incoming fire away from your rhinos.

I say one land raider is not enough, but what to take off.

I say the oblit's as I don't think they fit to well with the we are stealthy Idea of the alpha legion.

now we look at the chaos heavy's and the areas where your lists fall short. in this case swarm lists.

defliers; long range walkers with some combat ability the battle cannon can thin the swarms before your troops disembark to finish the job.
people are almost always going to make sure theses things will not survive to long as they can easily become a pain.

vindicators; short range but more powerful than the deflier also has better front armor. with one weapon destroyed result this thing becomes useless.

last but not least the daka predator auto cannon and heavy bolter side spoons for clearing infantry or one of the lascannon setups for some ranged anti tank

you can easily take 2 of theses options and still have points leftover from dropping the 5 oblits
(use them to give some special weapons to your infantry)

If you know where this is from good for you
go get your self a cookie

Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

  • Can't Touch This; Captain; Swarmlord - Tyranid Sweatshop Operator; 40KO's Official WMD; "No American orphans, please"
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13094
  • Country: gb
  • I kill, maim and torture because I care
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #11 on: March 8, 2011, 02:25:37 PM »
defliers; long range walkers with some combat ability the battle cannon can thin the swarms before your troops disembark to finish the job.
people are almost always going to make sure theses things will not survive to long as they can easily become a pain.

vindicators; short range but more powerful than the deflier also has better front armor. with one weapon destroyed result this thing becomes useless.

last but not least the daka predator auto cannon and heavy bolter side spoons for clearing infantry or one of the lascannon setups for some ranged anti tank

I have used all three of these, and found them thoroughly underwhelming. Defilers do not have "some combat ability", I find them to be woeful in combat at best. Their GEQ WS and Initiative makes them fodder for anything that wants a go. Vindicators are too short-ranged, pay a premium for being AP 2 that can easily be negated by cover saves, and have a single weapon, which can easily be blown off, or can simply miss. And Dakka predators just lack punch for the price. I'm frankly not convinced by this argument.

As far as taking on swarm lists goes, I think you forget that Obliterators can Deep Strike and have twin-linked flamers.
The forum rules are fair and just. *twitch*

Offline archonoftheredhand

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1188
  • Country: be
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #12 on: March 9, 2011, 12:37:48 AM »
Quote
As far as taking on swarm lists goes, I think you forget that Obliterators can Deep Strike and have twin-linked flamers.

They also have plasmacannons so they even don't have to DS.

Thats the beauty of obliterators, they have a weapon against everything.

Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

  • Can't Touch This; Captain; Swarmlord - Tyranid Sweatshop Operator; 40KO's Official WMD; "No American orphans, please"
  • Ancient
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13094
  • Country: gb
  • I kill, maim and torture because I care
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #13 on: March 9, 2011, 03:27:49 AM »
Against hordes, 5 TL flamers is much better than 5 small blast templates, regardless of how powerful said templates are. For one thing, flamers can't miss
The forum rules are fair and just. *twitch*

Offline archonoftheredhand

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1188
  • Country: be
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #14 on: March 9, 2011, 06:29:51 AM »
Against hordes, 5 TL flamers is much better than 5 small blast templates, regardless of how powerful said templates are. For one thing, flamers can't miss

That's true, but the cannons have more chances to fire since you can use them from the beginning. With DS you don't know when they arrive.

Offline ReaperGrim

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 834
  • Country: 00
  • BFTMFBG!!!
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #15 on: March 9, 2011, 09:44:58 AM »
Not saying you should put one in this list, but my experience with defilers has been different than yours I believe.  I usually run two squads of oblits and a defiler with reaper and xtra ccw.  It has served me well in almost every game, even the ones where it is blown up first turn by a melta toting drop pod squad.  The attention it gets takes heat off my other units and if left unchecked, it can cause lots of damage.  The template is its primary weapon obviously but even with its low initiative and WS, if you throw it at the right targets it will mulch them.  Or at very least act as a charge deterrent while sitting near your oblits/home objective unit. 

As for oblits, just be careful with deepstriking against hordes.  Pick your targets carefully and make sure you gave plenty of support for them.  It would suck to drop a 150 point unit in next to a 30 man boyz squad to roast 10 or so, only to gave them charge you next turn and eat your heavy support up.  Even plasma cannons aren't the best, since scatter is ever present and an accomplished horde general will keep his troops 2" apart whenever possible, minimizing the effectiveness of those small blasts.  Or at least they should :D.  I've always preferred a combination of rapid firing bolters and a good charge (zerkers in my case) to thin large units down.  Combi flamers are always useful as well. 
The world will look up and shout "Save us!", and I will whisper "No..."
"The Sons of Slaughter" death toll:
             W/L/D - 23/5/3

Offline Mrs. Brisby

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 65
  • Country: 00
  • being evil is fun
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #16 on: March 9, 2011, 12:38:49 PM »
for me my infantry are some of the best anti infantry I have. Three flamers the turn they pop out of their transport can hurt even terminators
the power fist can hurt all but the most armored enemy tanks.

the reason I recommended those units were not because of cost effectiveness but because they can distract enemy fire away from your transports as well as fill that swarm killing gap you list has due to a lack of special weapons.

right now if you were to play the list you stated with your oblits in reserve the only targets available are

land raider ( often to tough for some armies to pop first turn but that does not mean they will not try)
rhinos (these are the things that must be keep moving at-least for the first turn but are very fragile)

unless you plan to place all of your rhinos behind one land raider if the enemy has enough long range guns you will be walking across that board. I have had games where my army after the first turn had all of their rides destroyed even with cover saves from smoke or being obscured behind other units/terrain.

that is why I recommended those units they often make a more juicy target then a rhino full of marines.
If you know where this is from good for you
go get your self a cookie

Offline Fury

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 793
  • Country: us
  • Glory to the Dark Gods
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #17 on: March 9, 2011, 03:16:58 PM »
So are the Obliterators going to be run as is (taking up 3 HS slots)?
Just to be sure, if the Raider is a dedicated transport for the Terminators, it no longer takes up a FOC slot?

Sorry for the newb-like question, but this just never occurred to me, since I normally run Berzerkers in my Raider and DS the Terminators.
Ruinous Powers - My Chaos Space Marines Blog
http://ruinouspowers.blogspot.com

Offline Heretek

  • General Freyberg | Out, damn'd Grot! | Ork Boy
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5863
  • Country: nz
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #18 on: March 9, 2011, 03:24:23 PM »
So are the Obliterators going to be run as is (taking up 3 HS slots)?
Just to be sure, if the Raider is a dedicated transport for the Terminators, it no longer takes up a FOC slot?

Sorry for the newb-like question, but this just never occurred to me, since I normally run Berzerkers in my Raider and DS the Terminators.

Dedicated transports take up the same FOC slot as the unit they were purchased with.

Offline enlargingcloud

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3068
  • Country: 00
  • I like editing stuff.
Re: 1750 Tournament List- Alpha Legion, ish
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2011, 02:44:03 AM »
Looking at that first list, you could replace the 4 terminators+land raider with

10 terminators, heavy flamer, Icon of chaos glory, 2 chainfists
1 extra obliterator (so you have 3 squads of 2).

You have so many icons I could imagine this workin, but then again certain armies/units may love seeing 10 terminators when they have lots of ap2.

Just an idea, as 10 terminators for 345pts, with 2 chainfists+heavy flamer+rerolling leadership is pretty good for assaults

 


Powered by EzPortal