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Dull Cote Protective Coat

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Dull Cote Protective Coat
« on: July 23, 2008, 07:37:30 AM »
 

Blaze182

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Hey,

All my models have never been sealed with a protective layer.

I was wondering if Dull cote would protect the paint job from chipping?

Also, is it possible to dull cote over static grass, etc. Or will it wreck it?

Thanks, ASAP response greatly appreciated.. as this decides whether I take my nicely painted army, or the horrible one out to play tomorrow.

Thanks!!
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Re: Dull Cote Protective Coat
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2008, 07:59:43 AM »
 

Catachan Devil Sniper

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Is it from Testors?

Becuase if it is, I would spray it on. I have had mixed resaults with it. 1st time I used it, I brushed it on and it came on thick and blended the colors together. Thank God it was a test model. But the 3rd time I tried it, it worked good. And I brushed that on...its just plan odd. It does make the model look alot better. The decals are less shiny which is a good thing. I havent used it in a while but I bet if you thin it out a little and put it in an airbrush, it could work.

Hm. Grass huh. My guess would be it would wreck it.

EDIT:

I just looked at what I use with my models. I just switched from GW sealer to something new: Mr Super Clear Flat. It works pretty good. I would use this other than Dull coat just becuase its in a spray can already, dont have to thin it out, it doesnt run/bled the colors.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 08:36:38 AM by Catachan Devil Sniper »
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Re: Dull Cote Protective Coat
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2008, 08:16:28 AM »
 

Blaze182

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Yup. Testors Dull Cote
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Re: Dull Cote Protective Coat
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2008, 08:37:28 AM »
 

Banned Solorg

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Right, sealing the flock is not the best choice.  But some players are less picky than others.  My advice is to take a model who is bad (ie couldn't hit the broad side of a Broadside in a recent game) and make him the test subject.

I'm not familiar with the product you mentioned.
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Re: Dull Cote Protective Coat
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2008, 09:01:08 AM »
 

Blaze182

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I think I will.

Its worked perfectly on painted mdoels and hasnt blended the colours. but i've never sprayed the base and im unsure as to its protective capabilities... I'll test tomorrow.
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Re: Dull Cote Protective Coat
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2008, 09:22:21 AM »
 

Mr.Peanut (Turtleproof)

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Dullcote will protect against chipping, just not fabulously. 

I was taught how to use Glosscote followed by Clearcoat to protect models, it works extremely well.  Glosscote will sometimes ... swirl certain colors, but the results have always been attractive (power weapons and the like, I may have sprayed before the paint was fully dry, I'm not sure). 

Spraying Gloss + 2 coats of Dull creates a finish similar to the one the model started with. 

Spraying only Dullcote will create- surprise- a dulled finish.  This makes metallic paints look oddly flat.

Both sprays will cause no problems at all with flock, grass, or other basing materials.  They will not, however, create a water proof finish for anything secured with PVA/white glue, though.  This could possibly be achieved with a heavy coat of lacquer to create a full seal, but this would have its own new drawbacks.
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Re: Dull Cote Protective Coat
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2008, 11:01:16 AM »
 

regf

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Spraying only Dullcote will create- surprise- a dulled finish.  This makes metallic paints look oddly flat.


I started out using dull cote both brushed then sprayed & found the totally dull finish unnatural looking. Also you really have to make sure it is stirred & mixed thoroughly or the the dulling material ( looks like fine sludge) clumps up in details

I now use Humbrol Satin and either brush or airbrush it on depending upon how big or how many models I'm doing

I then go over any shiny bits with gloss - GW 'ardcoat, tamiya or Humbrol again for things like lenses, visors etc

I don't like spray can because of the extra solvents causing the blending mentioned above, the fact they are expensive, the huge amount of waste and don't use them on a warm day above 23 and I've had "sugar frosted" marines, which would limit me to mid winter only here

protection wise it's been pretty durable

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Re: Dull Cote Protective Coat
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2008, 02:13:32 PM »
 

Raven

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Dullcote will protect against chipping, just not fabulously. 

Sorry to correct you, but it will actually do nothing to protect.

Dullcote, for want of a better term will "frost" the layer it hits.

Think of gloss varnish as glass. Its shiny and smooth.

Dullcote turns it to frosted glass. It etches tiny bumps onto the surface, stopping it being shiny.

Its technically damaging to paint (being highly solvent), and I believe there are a couple of fantastic photos of plastic models its devoured.

Its currently banned in the EU (which annoys me as I need another can) its apparently horribly effective because its full of horrible chemicles.

I seem to remember it being stated that its got the chemical makeup of diesel floating in alcohol. :P


But I digress. Put on a gloss coat (GWs gloss was damn nice, but discontinued) , then dullcote it AFTER TWENTY FOUR HOURS for a good finish.

Spray it too soon and it can crazypaving effect your figures...
 

Re: Dull Cote Protective Coat
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2008, 01:21:31 AM »
 

regf

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Interesting. I've never had this problem with it. The bottle seems full of solvent and an ultra fine particulate sludge. If you don't stir it at all the solvent is clear & mildly shiny in finish. Partially stirred you get the globules of sludge mentioned previously.

thoroughly stirred & the particulate is suspended in the liquid & you get a dull finish.

I interpreted this to mean that it's the particulates that cause the dullness

Similarly I got sold a bottle of tamiya flat coat ages ago by a hobby store that assured me it was a primer.

After airbrushing a couple of rhinos & 20 marines I picked one model up the next day & all it had was a fine coating of flat white powder with no adhesive or cohesive properties at all. Had to clean it all off & start again. annoying

Some research on the Tamiya site revealed this was an additive to turn any paint flat.

So I think the dulling process would seem to be the effect of this particulate , rather than a chemical action.
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Re: Dull Cote Protective Coat
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2008, 09:54:04 AM »
 

Mr.Peanut (Turtleproof)

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As I said, dullcote will protect against chipping (and rubbing) but not well.  I say this from years of experience using Testors Dullcote. 

Testors Dullcote will not frost anything.  Painter's Touch varnish and other "heavy duty" spray varnish brands will, especially when put on too thick (they're nearly indestructible, though, I based-coated Eldrad many years ago and he still looks pristine- if not ugly).

Quality varies from can to can, but bumps are the result of a defective can or insufficient shaking before use.

There is a warning label on Testors saying that certain chemicals within it cause neurological damage in lab rats.  I always spray outside and hold my breath when spraying.

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Re: Dull Cote Protective Coat
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2008, 10:03:16 AM »
 

Da Pittman

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I like to seal mine with a couple coats of flat varnish for protection and then go over it with the Dullcoat, so far its been working pretty good for me.  Just be careful that if you want shinny parts that the Dullcoat will make it look like a flat metal.
 

Re: Dull Cote Protective Coat
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2008, 10:32:41 AM »
 

Raven

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Testors Dullcote will not frost anything. 

Perhaps my description was misleading.

Testors coating resembles laquering processes by being similar to the following snip:

Quote
The nitrocellulose and other resins and plasticizers are dissolved in the solvent, and each coat of lacquer dissolves some of the previous coat

Dullcote is a Toluene based agent, and contains no real "weight" like a varnish would. It is a very thin microfilm layer of deposits, which are slightly mingled with your top layer of "substrate". Its main effect is to "rough up" the surface of the figure, removing its uniform reflective surface. My frosting analogy was not aimed to suggest that it turns the figure white and cloudy, but to resemble the process of frosted glass, wherin the top layer is made unsmooth, lowering its reflective rate dramaticly and making it a matte finish.
 

Re: Dull Cote Protective Coat
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2008, 10:50:41 AM »
 

JaPizzy

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Dullcote will protect but not as well as glosscote, because the flattening agents in dullcote make the layer not as tough as pure lacquer.

Dullcote isn't just an "etching" layer as been said.  It's a lacquer resin with a flatting agent in it.  Which is why it can go on glossy if not mixed right. 

So in short glosscote and dullcote are the exact same thing, but dullcote has a flattening agent added to it, which reduces the toughness of the film, because it's not pure lacquer at that point.  Because of the VOCs in it it will eat into the lower layers, thus creating a sort of "thick" layers for protection.

Cheers

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Re: Dull Cote Protective Coat
« Reply #13 on: August 2, 2008, 12:42:53 AM »
 

Black1705f

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I've been using Dullcote for years and frankly I love the stuff. Of course thats just my taste. I never relied on for protecting against chipping, but it does well for plastics, but they tend to be a lot lighter. If you have heavy pewter or old lead figures I don't think anything is gonna protect it from serious clanking around or falls to the floor.

The biggest thing with Dullcote like any varnish or coating agent, is to test it prior to use. I think others have mentioned that too and that is truly critical. I have had that problem before with temperature or humidity that will cover your miniature in white specks with nothing to do but try to repaint, but you pretty much have to strip and restart.  I've also noticed recently a change in the finish over the years. The older product I've used is so flat it practically sucks the light in. Yeah, metallics do take on a super dull almost gray looking finish. I personally like it, because I don't like gleaming metal on my figures that are supposed to be fighting a war. I had one can that was almost glossy in finish so I discontinued it's use. Now a days when I buy a can of Dullcote it's slightly glossier than what I've used in the past, but still dull's down my inked and washed figures well enough.

I've also started using bottled Dullcote in conjunction with hard to reach glossy spots and with decals. I've been using decal solvent to get the decal fully adhered to the rounded surfaces, then decal varnish over the decal to seal and protect it and I finish up with bottled Dullcote that dulls it down just right. Does a great job imho.

I probably should try to experiment with other products, but the nice thing is I can get Dullcote at Walmart 24/7 if I have to.
 

 


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