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Author Topic: Wych Cult of Gore  (Read 18615 times)

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Offline typhon

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #60 on: January 1, 2009, 12:01:44 AM »
not lately the last fight i had with my ladies was the ard boys did ok but not as good as I had hoped.

they are very acceptable to the after combat resolution but then agian if they were easy to run then everyone would have an army.

your just need to find away to get the cover the ladies need to keep them alive after they wipe out a unit.

Offline Grumpy Kwi

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #61 on: July 1, 2009, 06:04:29 PM »
The High Lords of Commorragh have taken notice of the lack of activities within the Cult of Gore. Vect himself inquiring on the status of Cult and the reasons the slave pits are so low.

I'd be curious of the lists those of you are currently running, your success and or failures. If you stopped using the Wych Cult lists altogether I would like to hear what you are running instead.

To start with the contributions I am posting my current list and hope to be posting a battle report soon. Here it is:

Archite, SF, CD, PG, T-helm, Punisher, T-Rack and Animus
Dracite, CD, PG, Ag, s-pistol, T-rack
4x 6 wyches, 2 blasters, WW, PG, Succ ag, Raider, lance, H-fex
6 wyches, 2 blasters, WW
1x 6 man Raider Squad, cannon, blaster, Syb, p-blades, xenospasm, H-fex
2x 5 Reaver Jetbikes, 2 blasters, Succ, Punisher, T-Helm, PG, T-rack
2x Ravagers w/3 lances
1x Ravager w/3 disintegrators

I have been playing similar variants where the bikes were 3 bike tank hunters with 2 raider squads (the reverse of above) - I will be trying this out soon.

What I noticed with the Wych Cult is that 5 "troop" choices really makes a difference and I find it gives me enough squads towards the end of the game to be competitive (even though the on of the squads is on foot).

I have also noticed that reducing the wych squads down to a total of 6 wyches has been for the most part effective. I tend to use Wych Squads in pairs so there will always be at least 2 agonisers in any given combat not including the Archite and Dracite. If the target is tougher than what 2 wych squad can handle then I got the solo Archite and Dracite there to throw in.

Another tactic I find useful is having some "in-your-face" distractions to help spread the enemy fire. Having Bikes and Raider squads turbo boosting directly at the enemy on turn 1 really panics them and they tend to focus fire on the closest target instead of the more deadly (scoring) ones. This allows my wyches that necessary turn to position themselves into a charging position.

Setup is somewhat subjective but if I do have first move then just about everyone will start on the table. If I lose first move and I do not like what I see in the enemy setup I will most likely use "reserves" to control what can be shot at (I am not talking a lot, just a squad or two).

Another tid-bit I really did not expect is the amount of fire-power this list can dish out if they get within range. I do find myself keeping the wyches on board their cardboard death traps a little longer than usual and that sometimes lets me shoot 2 blasters and the dark lance at a given target (like a mini-ravager).

I am trying 2 CC orientated Reaver Jetbike squads for the first time in 5th (I think the last I used one was at last years 'Ard Boyz tourney). Totally experimental and I will admit I will be using them almost sacrificially (kinda expensive for that I know).

The Ravager setups are pretty much how I run them in all my lists. At my store there are always a ton of armor targets to get rid off and I find the 3 lances on a ravager to be more effective than the ordinary sniper squad.

These are a few adaptations I have evolved to since 5th was introduced 11 months ago. At first I thought WWP Wych Cult was doomed but I have found that only the WWP was what made my games lop-sided along with my 4th edition strategies. I say things look a lot better than they did for the Wych Cult, you just have to let 4th edition go.

Offline draconjoke

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #62 on: August 9, 2009, 09:05:15 PM »
Dear Wych Cult of Gore,
I'm a returning DE player (after a 5 year hiatus in the army, ugh), who hasn't played a game since v3 in 2004.  As I wipe the dust of my old models, what are some new tactical considerations I should be aware of?
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Offline Grumpy Kwi

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2009, 05:39:11 PM »
Dear Wych Cult of Gore,
I'm a returning DE player (after a 5 year hiatus in the army, ugh), who hasn't played a game since v3 in 2004.  As I wipe the dust of my old models, what are some new tactical considerations I should be aware of?

Welcome to the forum draconjoke!

Although I am glad you posted your question here I will also advise you that by design, not everyone is allowed to post in this section "Wych Cult of Gore" unless they are a member of it. 

What do I mean by "member"?

The forum started a little project a couple years back that recruited the members of the DE forum and placed them Kabals (and this Cult) as a system of generating a type of "role playing" in the form itself. In fact, there was even a system of battle amongst the different Kabals for supremecy of the forum in a fairly complicated on-line ruleset found in the Chain of Ascension and important links to past "Stickies".

You will notice that there are 3 Kabals and 1 Cult. You will also notice that some of the members actually have rank within their Kabal/Cult listed in their Avatar. Only these members are allowed to post in their respective Kabal/Cult. For example, I am the Archite of this section and I can not post in any of the other Kabals (I don't belong to them) although I am free to read them. Same goes for non-Cult of Gore members, they can not post here either other than read what's going on.

So, since you do not belong to any of the other Kabals I will respond to your question but only me and the other Cult members will be able to respond to your question. To be fair, you might want to post this question as a new thread for everyone to participate so you can get as many opinions.

Otherwise, I can comment from a Wych Cult point of view even though I am unsure you are asking for it (are you running a Kabal or Wych Cult?).

Anyway, in a nutshell, wyches and warriors/Raider squads are going to be the backbone of your choices. They are both very solid performers and once you filled out the troop and elite slots with them you can spend the points on the other aspects of the army.

Tactica Outline (my opinions):

*Get as many “scoring units” into your list, at least 4 up to 1500 points and at least 5 from 1750 on up

* Mechanize your army as the movement phase is now (in my opinion) the most important phase. When you take a Raider with your units you are actually getting 2 units – that raider can move into scoring or contending position on the last turn

* Annihilation is a killer mission that will never be in our favor. Our army is designed to be mechanized and the game now punishes mechanized lists so do not let Kill points design your list. I am not saying “give up” on annihilation games but your only real recourse is trying to table your opponent

* Ravager disintegrators are hugely popular and most people take at least 2 ravagers with all disintegrators. I personally on take one while the other two ravagers have 3 lances. In a wych cult I find balancing the list by making the ravagers tank hunters and leave the “crowd control” to the wyches. Strictly a matter of style – I play in an armor rich gaming club and have a huge need for some dedicated tank hunters and “sniper squads” just don’t cut the mustard.

* I have been playing a “Raider Rush” style army and just bum rushing the opponent on the opening turn. Sure, you will lose some raiders but I have found getting into close combat by 2nd or 3rd turn to be a good tactic. I do use “reserves” at times depending on the mission, enemy and setup but with true line of sight I find you might as well put everyone on the table and blitz. Too many times I have held back and have given my opponent too few targets to focus on and just fed him “piece meal” my army. Engage him as soon as possible.

* I do not care for the WWP anymore, its too expensive for what it offers. True line of sight, the new IC rules and the fact that the enemy can reach you anywhere on the table by turn 2 puts the nail in the coffin on its effectiveness. Too many times I have lost the wwp to outflankers, deepstrikers, teleporters, scouts and drop-podders and I am not found of dropping the wwp on the first turn (what's the point?). Using "Reserves" is free, more reliable (guaranteed to give you the rest of your army) and still can allow your raiders to be on the mid-way line in one turn (usually by that time the enemy is already on my half on the table anyway).

Hope this gives you some ideas, I can contribute more but it really is just my opinion on the game.

Are you running a "Wych Cult"?

Offline draconjoke

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2009, 07:06:42 PM »
Oops. 
Sorry for the misplaced post and thank you for the direction.  I'll be sure to post a thread on the DE forum.  And to answer your question, yes I run a Wych cult mostly because I never had success with a Kabal. 
Also a big fan of the raider rush, I'm glad it still works.
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Offline Grumpy Kwi

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #65 on: December 27, 2009, 01:26:38 PM »
Wych Cult for Dummies – Part One, 4th edition Wyches

    A couple weeks back a fellow DE member "Silver" asked me if I found Wych Cult lists more successful than Kabal lists – although I thought the question is easily answered I discovered it wasn’t easily explained. I have tried 5 or 6 separate attempts to tackle the question and what I have found was that there were too many things (variables) that dictate “synergy” or “harmony” or “zen” in a list. Variables such as, raider rush vs. wwp, last turn grab vs. “tabling”, mechanized vs. non-mech and even retinues vs. non-retinue units all can be considered pieces to a larger puzzle and finding how they all best fit together to give you the means to adapt, survive and conquer a normal 40k game. I think for this thread I will have to take it down to the grass-root level and describe the changes I believe have affected a very common squad selection (found in both Kabals and Cults) and that is the basic Wych Squad. Even if you do not play Wych Cult, I think you might find some insight of some sort even if you are only taking a squad of them in a normal Kabal list.

    I also want to chime in that the new nuances of 5th edition also had a huge impact in that some of us are just now realizing. I think 4th edition tactics and popular 4th edition formations are still evident in many of the lists I see and I think their role gets convoluted beyond successful productivity in some cases. So my goal at first is to take a look at a wych squad and compare their advantages from one edition to the next. Some may say their effectiveness hasn’t changed much and still expect them to kick some butt as they did in 4th but I think this is where many fail to realize that the arena has changed – with this I hope to shed some experiences and examples.

    Let’s start looking at the common Wych Squad in the 4th edition spotlight - I'll have to make a generalization.

    I can expect that the unit was always mounted on a raider and even though raiders were a flying “death trap” you couldn't get them into close combat without them (fortunately, raiders are a little safer in 5th). The means of getting the wyches on a raider into close combat was either by using a Web Way Portal or a massed “Raider Rush”. Although I believed that most lists that used wyches in mass tended to use web way portals (used mostly by experienced players) that even the raider rush tactic had the "skimmer moving fast rule" that did a fair job of getting the wyches across the board. I will at this point just presume that most DE players mounted their wyches no matter what method of delivery they used as the thought of anyone putting them on foot is just too far-fetched.

    Next, the squad size. In 4th edition I noticed that most wych squads were at least 8 to 10 wyches strong and every one of them outfitted with a succubus with some sort of power weapon, wych weapons and plasma grenades. The reason for 8 or 9 wych squads was to have a raider available for a lord of some sort to ride in the raider due to the funky reserve rules we had to deal with when working with the portal. Retinues may have been the exception here as a lord with a retinue was already a potent squad and I do remember seeing squad sizes as low as 5 to accompany Lelith or an Archite. For the most part, retinues were a little more popular in 4th edition because it ensured a lord would ride on raider when entering the game through a web way portal. In 5th, some still use retinues to either shield a lord or because it was the only way to get a certain squad into the list (like incubi) or because some sort of advantage can be utilized (like Lelith being able to choose her drug for the whole squad to use). I think retinues warrant some discussion but I would probably address that later in this topic and for now just focus on the rank ‘n file wych squad.

    Now I am going to just mention the choice of adding blasters to a squad like this but overall the feelings I got mostly in 4th edition was if you were playing the Web Way Portal tactic then the wyches coming out of the portal were going to come straight out, disembark and charge a target in one turn. Blasters were taken simply because most portals were placed so close to the enemy that the wyches could spare the “fleet of foot” move in the shooting phase and use it instead to “soften” their target before the charge (while being 1" away!). In “Raider Rush” lists blasters were frowned upon since the wyche’s raider would be starting in their own deployment zone and most often or not the squad would most likely need that “fleet of foot” move to get within charge range. Even if the squad did get close enough to shoot, you ran the risk of either causing the target to flee in the shooting phase or you ended up killing the only models within your charge radius. Blasters were not sure thing in a 4th edition wych squad so for the most part not a factor – I will exclude them for now even though I always used them in a wwp list.

    All right, we have a common 4th edition wych squad of 8 to 10 wyches strong with all the trimmings I mentioned above on a raider – what were the expectations of this unit? I think the first thing that most people expected was that a wych squad was a dedicated assault unit that needed to get into assault as fast as possible, hit so hard on the charge that the enemy would fail morale (or at least fight back weakly), outnumber the opponent, “sweep” the unit and “massacre” into another assault. The ideal situation was to get into assault and “roll” the enemy line and the enemy could do nothing about stopping the wyches as they were always in close combat and couldn’t be shot at. (Personal note: I strongly feel that the new 5th edition rules purposely targeted WWP Wych Cult lists - probably not but this world was absolutely shattered when 5th came out).

    Now, I do believe that some DE players thought that a single ordinary wych squad can beat an ordinary squad of marines in a fair fight and as long as we got the charge. Here I want to interject that I usually did not have such high expectation and it really depended on what drug the wyches had, how many marines they killed in the shooting phase and how many marines I could “clip” limiting the amount marines that could strike back. I did however, embrace the ideology that we should never fight fair and avoid 1 on 1 confrontations. However, I’d say that most often than not, a squad of wyches could win that fight most of the time (if they got the charge and average luck in the opening assault) and still keep some combat potency when finishing the marine unit – if a lord was present, it was pretty much a slam dunk combination and the marines were as good as dead and eventually the wyches would massacre into a new assault when they were done to the man.

    How many squads were there in a list? In my wych cult lists I would say about 4 squads were the average and in a Kabal list I’d say 2 was the norm and 1 or 3 squads was not unlikely – having no wyches was unusual but not unheard of. This is for the most part, what I see in lists in 5th edition. In fact, many Kabal lists I see now could have been easily played in 4th edition with the bulk of the points invested in specialized assault units while skimping on the Troop selections with min/max squads geared for shooting only that are 1 dimensional in nature (just shoot baby!). Maybe it’s habit or it is still believed it gets the job done but these formations haven’t changed much in today’s lists (although I think we are seeing more min/max raider squads with lances and less sniper squads (down to 1 or 2 squads). I think it is fair to say a 4th edition wych squad was a specialized assault unit that looked something like this:

    8 to 10 wyches, ww, plasma, succubus, agoniser, pistol, raider

    I honestly believe I needed to go through all this information as a “common” ground to work from so I can continue the rest of my point. Now that I am delving into 5th edition I can point out the changes I have made and observed in the last year and a half. Hopefully, even if you never used your wyches in the way I described that perhaps you can still get what I am trying to say and you just might be able to apply in your own way.

    So sorry for the lengthy post so far – I thought it was unavoidable if you wanted to understand everything I wanted to say.

    Part 2 will be some of my thoughts and experiences using 4th edition wych tactics in a 5th edition game.

    I would love to hear of any wych formations or expectations you might used that I did not mention above or if you thought I missed something - I do make mistakes quite often. Thoughts or suggestions?


Offline Grumpy Kwi

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2010, 01:00:09 PM »
Sure, I am going to double post - I will punish myself later.

I am going to play a 1,000 point game with my wyches today, just thought I'd share the latest and greatest (in my mind) ideas mixed in a list. I still think Wych Cult is easier for me from 1750 points on down so no regrets as I really do want to win this game against an IG player. So here goes:

Archite, punisher, t-helm, drugs, shield, plasma, trophy rack, animus vitae
5 wyches (6 total), 2 blasters, WW, plasma, + Succubus, Angoniser, pistol, plasma on Raider, NS, Fex, lance
5 wyches (6 total), 2 blasters, WW, plasma, + Succubus, Angoniser, pistol, plasma on Raider, NS, Fex, lance
5 wyches (6 total), 2 blasters, WW, plasma, + Succubus, Angoniser, pistol, plasma on Raider, NS, Fex, lance
Ravager, 3 lances and NS
Ravager, 3 lances and NS

His list is very optimized and although I know just about exactly what he is running my list is exactly as it was when I won with it in a 1,000 RTT. His list is something like:

Yarrick
Officer guy that drops an ordinance blast template in a small command squad
2 platoons with nothing special in them
Vendetta with 2 heavy bolters and a las cannon
Lemon Russ with all plasma cannons with a hull mounted las cannon.

I believe I am going to need first turn and a good mission to win. Idea is to get the right match ups, pin what I can, silence the vendetta and russ with any result I can generate and pray for some 12" charging drugs.

We will see - be back soon.

 


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