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Offline ravenklath

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2008, 03:58:17 AM »
hello all, with the new edition comes great change along with my acceptance that the inquistion is all mad. i have chosen to ally myself with the Wych Cult of Gore. new to DE myself i decided a Wych cult would be best as they are what brought me to the DE any advice as what to get would be appreciated atm i only have Lelith and 10wychs so anything else i may need please let me know

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Offline Balthraka

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2008, 07:16:15 AM »
Hello fellow cult members and honourable Archite!

I thought i should probably stop by here to make sure that you all know i still have allegiance to the Cult of Gore and that i am back!
I have been away for some time but am now back with a vengenace. If you are interested; i have posted my return in the Beginners and Newbies Forum...

However; i thought i also needed to stop by here to say hi to everyone and check that the system THAT I BEGAN (the Dark Eldar chain of Ascension that is) is still going strong.

So...
Hi again and may you take many slaves!

-Balthraka
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Offline Grumpy Kwi

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2008, 12:01:57 PM »
You actually don't play for wipe out every game as a wych cult? Thats all I ever do, whether it is a tourney with objectives or pick up games.

Is there any other reason to even use a wych army besides a wipe out :)

That is the reason I love the forums, thank you, this probably has saved me a lot of play testing. I was figuring that I would definitely have to play "wipe out" for annihilation games but would still try to play the missions. With "wipe out" in mind, I can now focus a list without worrying on keeping wyches alive or keeping them near objectives as this would just get them killed - time to make some new lists!

@ravenklath - welcome to the Wych Cult of Gore! I take it you are going to be getting serious with the Wyche Cult then I think we need to induct into our Cult proper! Hopefully our illustrious Archite will sign you up before you get thrown into the gladiator pits. ;)

As for your models - you have a nice start and I think Lelith is a great way to start your Cult. For now, since you do not have 1500 points worth just use here as an Archite or Dracite until you have enough to legally use her - she's a bargain!

Right now you are in a bind with the rumors of a new codex and models that might come out next year but I really do not want you to wait that long - its your call. So I will recommend what I think you will need but you will have to decide if you want to get them now or wait until next year (hopefully).

I think you need:

The Ravager Titan Hunter kit - it came out for Apocalypse and I believe it is still available. The ravagers come out $25 a piece and they can be used as either a raider or a ravager. You are going to need to be "mechanized" when using wyches so either go eBay or the Titan Hunter package.

More Wyches - my lists usually has 4 squads of 8 and Lelith's retinue of 7 (1 succubus and 6 regulars). I usually run Wyches in a WWP and thus usually have 2 blasters in each squad (except Leliths). So I think 30 more wyches minimum.

A Dracite - at 1500 I will usually run 2 HQ options, an Archite and a Dracite. Anything less then a Dracite could suffice. Since there really isn't much of a selection for a Dracite model I would consider taking the old DE female Lord and customizing her if your customizing and green stuff skillz are good. Another mini you could consider is the Kruella model but I am not crazy about skulpt however her arms and body looks like it would could easily be changed if you know how to pin.

For auxillary units it comes down to style of play beyond what I mentioned above. In my larger lists I have raider squads, warrior foot squads, warp beasts and sometimes mandrakes - it just depends on your style. For 5th edition, I like raider squads and foot warriors - they are low cost in points and add firepower to the list.

Hope that gets you some ideas.

@Balthraka

Welcome back! I cannot remember if you ever joined any of the other Kabals but I hope you are considering the Cult of Gore. I am sure if you can offer any slaves or sacrifices to our Archite Intellectawe we can make accomodations to add you to the Cult. Glad to see you back. :)

Offline typhon

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2008, 12:14:14 PM »
You actually don't play for wipe out every game as a wych cult? Thats all I ever do, whether it is a tourney with objectives or pick up games.

Is there any other reason to even use a wych army besides a wipe out :)

That is the reason I love the forums, thank you, this probably has saved me a lot of play testing. I was figuring that I would definitely have to play "wipe out" for annihilation games but would still try to play the missions. With "wipe out" in mind, I can now focus a list without worrying on keeping wyches alive or keeping them near objectives as this would just get them killed - time to make some new lists!



I think i can reply with out being a current member of the cult but 

We're wych cult what else is there beside inslaving armies in whole.   

we need slave as plaything to pass the time in between raids for new play things

Offline Grumpy Kwi

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2008, 06:41:26 PM »
I think i can reply with out being a current member of the cult but

Actually, no. But since you have not been recruited yet we will let you live long enough to join our Cult.

Personally I do not mind as long as its "Wych" talk but you might want to get that past Intellectawe first - it might be easier to just join

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We're wych cult what else is there beside inslaving armies in whole.   

we need slave as plaything to pass the time in between raids for new play things

I think for Wych Cult I take prisoners for sport and the gladitorial pits - some slaves are probably worthless and can either be sacrificed or sold.

I really like this type of mindset of just wiping out everyone - this alone may preserve the wych squads in itself.

Offline Balthraka

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #45 on: July 25, 2008, 10:36:12 PM »
@Balthraka
Welcome back! I cannot remember if you ever joined any of the other Kabals but I hope you are considering the Cult of Gore. I am sure if you can offer any slaves or sacrifices to our Archite Intellectawe we can make accomodations to add you to the Cult. Glad to see you back. :)

Well if you look just below my name you will notice that i am in fact a Dracite in this very cult.
I was the starter of the Dark Eldar Chain of Ascension and have always been a Dracite here...

But thanks for the welcome back

-Balthraka
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Offline Bannedface666

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2008, 02:56:29 PM »
Ravenklath and Typhon of gore, welcome into the Cult! I am impressed that you guys want to join. Within the warhammer 40k world, Dark Eldar are the Elite among the many, and the Wych Cult is the Elite among the Elite.

We are not an easy army to play with. How ever many mistakes you think DE can make and still win, subtract 5.

I am currently invloved in moving, and I am deep within my job at the moment (making a video game... takes up all my time) so I have not played 5th. Kwi has the throne while I am out in Commorragh picking daises. If you want an answer to a cult specific question, ask it here.

Say no to warrior armor.
Say yes to thongs and banana hammocks.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2008, 03:03:34 PM by Intellectawe »

Offline ravenklath

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2008, 03:23:00 AM »
well how many squads of wychs is a good number for them. and how big should the squads be

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Offline Frogbait

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #48 on: July 29, 2008, 07:22:01 PM »
My new army stilllllll hasn't arrived through ebay yet, (http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=280230720406 )  but Ive been proxying and playing on vassal with it in the meantime. I'm still new to the true kin, but it's time to step into the ring and test out my punisher. And Ive been looking for a little advice on the changes to wyches in 5th before I get a live game in. This looks like the place, I'll sign up. If it requires a trial, I was part of the winning mercenaries faction in the summer campaign, and managed to find the seeker's stones for our faction... Along with a decent amount of slave playthings.  ;)

Offline Grumpy Kwi

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #49 on: August 4, 2008, 06:08:53 PM »
well how many squads of wychs is a good number for them. and how big should the squads be

There is no set number and its a matter of style and experience but eventually you will discover a couple things:

Wyches work well with a dedicated transport. With either a WWP or rush style list most people will put them on a raider so they can move 12", disembark for 2" and assault for 6" (or 12" if they get lucky enough for the random combat drug).

With a dedicated transport I have found 8 total to be optimum (7 wyches and 1 succubus). This is a matter of experience where some found the difference between 10 wyches attacking and 8 wyches attacking to not be significant. 10 is fine if you already have plans for your HQ units but 8 will survive just as well. Simply put, if 8 wyches can't take care of your target then 10 isn't either and you might as well throw in another wych squad into the fray.

Another reason (probably the real reason) why I use 8 in a raider is that at the 2,000 point level I will usually have an Archite and a Dracite that run solo. The Archite and Dracite (and especially now in 5th) can be placed into any of the squads on the raiders if there is room.

The older 4th edition reason for 8 instead of 9 is that a squad that is even will stay above or be at half strength longer than that of an odd number. Since there is only 2 HQ units and usually 4 or 5 wych squads I tend to have more wych squads that wont have an HQ on board.

I do have a slight change when I deal with Lelith however, I usually will give her a retinue of 7 (6 wyches (no blasters) and 1 succubus) for a total squad number of 8 including Lelith. Usually, when I also run a Dracite, I will stick her in this unit as well (so 9 total) but the Dracite separates or detaches from the squad during disembarkation even though they may be charging the same target (allows me another shot at a sweeping advance).

As for running wyches on foot - I don't do it (or havn't done it yet). I am thinking of it however but only because of the "Dawn of War" and squeezing in another "troop" choice - I was thinking of taking a raider squad with scaling nets and doing a "switch-a-roo" (both units would have a wwp but opened at different times in certain situations).

Another alternative is taking Lelith with a retinue on foot (no raider) and putting them in the portal with Lelith choosing the 12" charge drug to make up for the absence of a raider. The only thing that I do not like about this idea is that they can now be blocked in portal without their raider so I will probably never try this out.

Other wych squad options I like:

They all get plasma grenades - this is a slam dunk
WWP wyches get 2 blasters - chance of them needing to fleet is less
Always take wych weapons
Succubus most likely takes agoniser (no reason, I just do)
I do not like haywires - assaulting vehicles is a death sentence
Raiders outfitted with horrofexs - to pin other units not assaulted.
Not fond of the Goblet of Spite

Those are my thoughts in Wych Squad configurations - definitely a matter of style and play (milage may vary  ;)).

Offline Sir Sam Vimes

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #50 on: August 29, 2008, 09:45:53 AM »
Whoa. Didn't realize until now that this is a new Wych Cult of Gore-thread :o

Well then, that calls for a proper introduction.

Hi!

Name's Vimes and I have been a member of this Cult for a year or more (not a very active one though...). Currently I have a vanilla DE force, though wyches and wych cults are what is closest to my black heart. Haven't played 40k for a very long time, I'll blame it on the uni and work, but I'm planning on getting active again once I've finished the studies.

You can see me here in the DE section, but mostly on the Fiction and Art boards. Love to write, like to draw, although I've done the latter one for a longer time than the other one. If you have any fluff or stories that you want commented, critized, or dumbly praised, I'm the one for you :D

Take care and good hunting!

Offline Grumpy Kwi

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #51 on: September 19, 2008, 11:10:26 AM »
Well, the "playing for wipeout" strategy isn't working for me - the variable game length keeps getting in the way.

Anyone else have a particular strategy or list combination that is proving to be a winner?  I keep pulling "draws" in the hands of defeat so not all is bad its just that I do not have enough fodder to take the pressure off the wyches. I can make a list of 4 to 5 troop choices but due to their cost they do not allow alot of spare points for support units.

I'd be curious to hear of your tactics and list combinations.

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #52 on: September 19, 2008, 03:52:51 PM »
Isn't 5th great   my wyches have that great problem of wiping out a unit and then getting shot to death for their prior victory the turn before.

I can't get them to last more than a turn in close combat so they are good for one close combat versus a smart opponent. 

I think the kabal list a fairing better at least mine are the large foot troop squads are proving gold for me currently in fifth.  Granted they die in droves but when you taking over 70 into a fight they are quite good at laying down a wall of fire. 

In the Ard boys one squad of 17 warriors killed a daemon prince from shooting and close combat and then they proceed that feat with gunning down abaddon can't spell that freaks name.

  I know I can't run my lord independent anymore they get shot to death 2+ only last so long to small arms fire.  So they have to have a retinue for each unless you going with the reaver lord..   Which I'm finally liking reavers again they do more than get shot and run away.

I guess retinues are now gold in fifth  since you no longer kill from the characters kill zone.  unless your running a major killing lord aka reaver lord with punisher and t-helm.


I'm really think of trying scaling nets to allow my wyches to drop off the raider and then have the raider run up and provide cover for the wyches if they wipe out the opponent in close combat. 


large warrior squads for the fire power and then the screening 4+ cover save.  A full squad of twenty can screen alot of board and with only half the unit need to be in cover to get the save is nice.  the front squad half in cover and half out of cover can provide cover for the squad in the open behind it.  This has been working great. 

use your warriors to screen each other and provide fire power leave your wyches in wait and when the warriors get threatened of assault let your wyches attack.  Did this in my last game and worked very well.   

ravagers are standard 3 diss now they work wonderfully with the new bast rules and the new weapons rule.

I guess I have to take a mandatory 2 large foot troop squads 17 warriors 2 splinter cannons and 2 blaster with sybrite and poison blades not the best in close combat but can punish units before they get there.

if i was to throw a list that I would favor in fifth it would be

arhcite SF,CD,PUN,T-Helm,PG HG

2 x 17 man warriors 2 splinter cannons 2 blasters sybrite poison Blades.

4 x 8 man wych squads with agoniser and two blasters, Plasma grenades on raider

8 wyches agoniser, Plasma grenades, raider

2 ravagers 3 Diss

thats 75 models
6 Diss
8 blasters
5 dark lances
4 splinter cannons.

If you worried of armour and liked a sniper squad then go with 3 sniper squads and a 3 warp beast squad

But as for a proven winner that is hard to do since the new attempt to balance out the armies with the new rules and the new codex's being made.




Offline 40kfomPodmaster

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #53 on: October 7, 2008, 07:49:22 PM »
To those new joiners, welcome! To those old hands, my apologies for my lack of presence of late. As Vimes said - didn't realise this was a new thread for our glorious cult!

Been playing with some new toys of late, but have un-retired (is that a word?!?) my ladies having been taunted about them by a new to the game Blood Angel player. Now...this debate that's doing the rounds at the moment . . . playing for the wipe out etc. I've always been a precise scalpel or rapier thrust, rather than a blunt instrument (total contrast to me on a rugby pitch on a saturday afternoon!) . . . however, this BA player's tauntings ("Dark Eldar? Wych Cult? What a load of ****. No one plays them...") riled me somewhat. 5 turns and 1400+ points of dead red smurf later...

All joking and boasting aside, I think a Wych Cult is too precise an impliment (and too fragile in inexperienced and / or inept hands) to go for a wipe out. "Remember the mission" should be the mantra, with caution tempering our natural cold-blooded cruelty.  Think of total butchery of the opposition as a nice bonus!

Offline Grumpy Kwi

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #54 on: October 16, 2008, 01:58:23 PM »
I played a 1,000 point RTT tournament at my local GW and decided I was going to give the wyches a try. I then discovered that GW was going to split the tables in half as to get as many players into the game as possible – of course, I started frothing at the mouth with the thought of playing on 3x4’ board. My list:

Archite: WW, punisher, t-helm, drugs, SF, plasma, t-rack.
8 wyches, WW, plasma, 2 blasters w/succubus, agoniser, pistol. Raider, darklance
8 wyches, WW, plasma, 2 blasters w/succubus, agoniser, pistol. Raider, darklance
8 wyches, WW, plasma, 2 blasters w/succubus, agoniser, pistol. Raider, darklance
Ravager, 3 lance
Ravager, 3 dissy

The tables had decent terrain I and I usually had enough cover to hide 1 raider and 1 ravager and plenty of time to play a full game I figured if I got first turn to go ahead and place everyone on the table and if I move 2nd then I would place units in reserve in case the enemy, terrain and mission endangered my chances of getting the wyches into combat.

1st game was against vanilla space marines and the player was a beginner. He had never played before and I would have to “spoon feed” him the rules and at the same time try not to take advantage of his experience. I basically told the guy that I would help him defeat me but leave the most of the dice rolling to chance – the dice were going to decide his fate. His list was:

Captain with bolt pistol and power weapon
10 terminators with storm bolters and power fists and sgt. with sb and power weapon.
10 Tac Squad with a flamer and missle launcher and a Sgt. with nothing
10 Tac Squad with a flamer and missle launcher and a Sgt. with nothing
7 Devastators with 4 missle launchers and sgt with nothing.

Once I found out how wacked the list was I asked him about it and he said that he wanted a very plain jane list with nothing “fancy” in it. He said it was all new to him and he didn’t want to get confused with a bunch of special rules.

He won the roll to setup first and placed both tac squads behind cover with the devastators sitting in the middle in the open with the terminator squad standing in front. The mission was the old take n’ hold mission from 4th using the pitched battle setup and it was clear that he would have to take 2 to 3 turns of moving to get to the center objective.
 
I decided to put 2 wyches into reserves so the archite started on the lone wych squad starting on the raider behind cover along with both ravagers. The wyches on the table had the +1 attack and the other 2 had +1 strength and always strike first.

Turn 1: He moved both tac squads on both flanks along with the terminators that just moved straight ahead up the middle. His devastator squad had a choice either ravager and he chose the 3 dissy one, I failed the 4+ cover and he blew it up.

In my turn I turbo charged the archite and wych raider behind a windmill on the left flank to challenge the tac squad with the captain in it and moved the 3 lance ravager forward to fire 3 shots at the devastators and ended up killing 2 marines and the sgt.! He passed their morale so it looked like I was going to lose that ravager now.

Turn 2: He moved the same squads again and the devastator squad scored 2 hits but only shook the ravager. His terminators were now close enough to the archite/wych raider and stunned it with bolter fire.

I first moved the shaken ravager behind cover and the Archite and wyches disembark from the stunned raider with the Archite separating from the wych squad as the marines looked as if I could fail the charge with them being in cover. The both had pretty good “run” rolls so I was confident that they would make it. The other 2 wych squads became available and I sent the +1 strength wyches at the terminators in the center and the always strike first wyches at the far right tac squad. Both wyches went “flat-out” as to incur the 4+ cover save. The Archite and wyches both made the assault on the marines in cover and ended up killing 6 marines and a wound on the Captain – I ended up losing 1 wych. He ended up failing morale and could’nt break away and with 6 addition armor saves caused by “no retreat” he passed all 6 saves.

Turn 3: He still moves the terminators forward as to be within inches of the objective and the far right tac squad was still trudging through the forest to the very edge, in one turn they could be able to be in scoring position if they moved and “ran” well. Both the terminators and the tac squad fired at each wych raider but failed to do anything to them thanks to the 4+ cover save. The 4 missle launcher dev squad fired at the wyches threatening the terminators and hit with 3 of them and I failed all 3 4+ cover saves - then he rolled 3 “1’s” for armor penetration. In his assault phase, I chose to put all the archite attacks on the captain and although I hit him 4 times I fail to wound him at all. The wyches ended up killing 2 marines and the marines killed another wych. He passes his moral check.

In my turn both wyches disembark and charged their assigned targets. The ravager moves back out and fires at the terminator squad as to “soften” them up for the wyches and only kills 1. All 3 empty raiders fired at the terminators and again only 1 terminator drops dead. In assault, the Archite and wyches totally “whiff” and no wounds made it through (perhaps the worst example of bad dice rolling I ever had). Luckily, he does nothing as well and we continue on. The wyches charging the terminators killing 3 and the terminators only kill 2 wyches and he passes his 1 save for being fearless. The wyches charging the far right tac squad manage to only kill 3 marines and then the marines dished out 4 kills of their own to win combat. My dice rolling was pathetic and the wyches lose morale and break off .

Turn 4: He fired his dev squad at the 3 lance ravager and destroyed it and the far right marine squad flames the wyches dead. The Archite and wyches finally finishes off the captain and remaining sgt. and I consolidated those wyches towards the dev squad and the Archite towards the terminators. The wyches in the center only manage 1 terminator kill and the terminators kill 3 wyches. I pass my morale with only 3 wyches left.

In my turn the remaining wych squad is now 1” away from the dev squad and move an empty raider next to the dev squad. The Archite is within 1” of the terminators. All 3 empty raiders fire at the tac squad and only manage to kill 1. The wyches charge the dev squad and they are destroyed and consolidate to within 2” of the empty raider. I decided to charge the Archite at the remaining tac squad as to tie them up while the wyches try to kill the terminator squad themselves. The Archite kills 4 marines while they all manage to do nothing back at the Archite, they pass morale. The wyches do manage to kill 2 terminators and I then lose 2 of mine and so we tied combat again.

Turn 5: His assault phase: The Archite kills 2 more and he failed to do anything to the Archite, they pass morale. The one wych with the agoniser actually kills the remaining terminators and consolidates into scoring postion at the objective.

In my turn the wyches on the raider move to the tac squad and disembark 1” away getting ready for a big rush. He concedes at that point.

Man, I thought his bad list was going to be a “push over” but he tested the wyches and I think that with all the points he saved on fancy wargear really put a lot of bodies on the table (especially the 10 man terminator squad) which nearly broke me in the ending turns. My opponent had a fun time and thanked me for helping him out. He knew it was going to be tough and he never got angry at all, I think this introduction into 40k is going to “reel” him in big time.

I will post game 2 of 3 next.

Offline 40kfomPodmaster

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #55 on: October 17, 2008, 10:25:19 AM »
Perhaps this is a result of desperation with our ever-shrinking model range, but I like to think of it as inventiveness with fluff and a modelling challenge: I have a question for my fellow cultists.
 
Given the hedonistic ritual society that the Dark Eldar live, filled to the brim with cruelty, cults and covens . . . mixed with their living within the webway and possibly very close to the warp, what do you think of the idea of using the new plastic Daemonettes as Wyches (with perhaps the Masque of Slaanesh representing Lilith)? A modelling challenge undoubtably, but one which could be accomplished with the aid of a bitz box, some green stuff and opponents goodwill.
 
What do you think?

Offline Grumpy Kwi

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #56 on: December 29, 2008, 05:10:33 PM »
Has there been any luck with the little ladies? I am curious to hear if anyone has been playing them lately.

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #57 on: December 29, 2008, 11:01:52 PM »
I haven't evejn played 5th yet due to life. But things have changed actually, and I may get a game in next month. I'll keep you'll informed.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2008, 02:25:46 PM by Trollface666 »

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2008, 11:45:33 AM »
Has there been any luck with the little ladies? I am curious to hear if anyone has been playing them lately.
Sadly not old chap. Been side-tracked with my building a Space Marine army exclusively out of Rogue Trader era models (Mk1 Land Raider, Rhinos & Preds, RTB01 Plastic marines, metal models of the same type / era...ebay's done well out of me of late). Been a while since I've dusted down the ladies for a game...

Offline ravenklath

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Re: Wych Cult of Gore
« Reply #59 on: December 30, 2008, 04:57:05 PM »
Well I did not start my Ladies until 5th edition I have had my ups and downs with them but I'm still learning them as well as Dark Eldar as a Whole. So yes I'm on a very steep curve but then again I did learn how to play with the Sisters of Battle first so yes I have much still to learn about these even more so delicate ladies. Most of my games have been against Deamons and well they work well because they have hardly any shooting so it works for me. The biggest trouble I have with them is against shooting.

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