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Author Topic: The Outsider- help?  (Read 2867 times)

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Offline Onanon

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The Outsider- help?
« on: January 8, 2008, 04:16:19 PM »
I'm going to try running a 40k campaign over the holidays, and I could do with 40kO's expert opinion. Basically, a strongly anti-psychic rogue planet has been colonised by Imperials, who are now terraforming it. High proportion of psychic blanks in the population and in the regiment stationed there. Commanded by an Inquisitor who has some connection with the planet itself.

The tomb world is awakened, along with the Outsider, one of the C'tan. The Regiment are controlled by the corrupted Inquisitor and make like nothing is wrong. the entire planet is a living, breathing, seething thing and is being steered into the Eye of Terror to try and shut it down. Grey Knights get called along with other Guard, Necrons start springing up from the planet and Chaos invade, unwillling to have the Eye closed. Eldar, who had attacked the colony earlier, also play a role.

tl,dr: THE METAL LIVES

The Outsider: Points: 360? 350?

The Boy Snide's Outrageously Shiny Leather and PVC clad Soul Train-Void. The Stranger Inside.
Like a massively pumped up Culexus, but currently inside the Dyson sphere. It's the source of the Pariah Gene.

WS BS S T W I A LD SV
 5   4   6 8 5 4 4 10 4+

Armed with a pumped up Aminus Speculum (str5 ap1, uses small template. Assault 2. Gains extra shot for every psyker within 12 inches)and the Sea Inside.

Souless:
All models within 18 inches count as LD 7.

Psychic Abomination:

All psykers within 12 inches must take a leadership test or fall back. If are with a unit, that unit must also fall back.

Monsterous Creature:
Rolls 2d6 for armour penetration, and ignores armour saves. Because it's a C'tan, it's attacks also ignore invulnerable saves.

Immune to Natural Law:
Ignore terrain, if attacking models in or behind cover, count as having frag grenades.

Necrodermis:
4+ invulnerable save. If the C'tan is killed, it inflicts a S6 hit on every model within d6 inches, no armour saves possible.

Drain Life:

Any opponent reduced to 0 wounds in close combat will not regenerate them or recover them due to bionics or medipaks or any other fancy wargear.

Manifestation:
Anyone wishing to assault the C'tan must make a LD test. If the test if failed, they cannot assault this turn.

Fearless:
Autopass all morale checks, cannot be pinned.

The Sea Inside:
Used in shooting phase. Ordinance template over Outsider, str 5 ap1. Partial coverage hits on a 4+. If any enemy models take a wound, must pass a leadership test or be dragged into the Sea of Dirac, a pocket dimension of absolute negative energy, and is insta-killed.
A bit like episode 16 of Neon Genesis Evangelion.

Like a grossly distended famine victim, rake thin, half-squatting and screaming, stomach swollen with child. Echoing within it are the birth pangs of the entire universe.

I'm not to sure about The Sea Inside...
Quote
Partial coverage hits on a 4+. If any enemy models take a wound, must pass a leadership test or be dragged into the Sea of Dirac.
Or should it be like a flamer hit, and an instant kill if you fail a LD test, no saves of any kind possible?

I need the advice of the Necron boards, as you've got more experience with C'tan that I do. The Outsider would be great with a fear list. I hope this isn't rage-enducing...
« Last Edit: January 12, 2008, 07:27:45 AM by No Love Lost »
I like what you're doing, but none the less... It's pretty freakin' messed up. Which is cool. Great ideas and concepts, but again, pretty freakin' messed up.
Lol.

Offline Everian117

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Re: The Outsider- help?
« Reply #1 on: January 9, 2008, 10:48:57 PM »
LOL, when i started reading the "sea inside" rule the first thing that popped into my head was Evangelion, then i saw that note and lol'd

up his wounds by 1, and make the sea inside rule differnet, so instead of insta-death, the unit counts as pinned.

and his points sohuld be around 400ish
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Offline Onanon

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Re: The Outsider- help?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2008, 07:15:27 AM »
400 points is a bit much compared to the other C'tan. 350? 360?
I should drop the attacks to 3, as it's meant to be more of a shooty-screamy unit.
Edited in the C'tan rules for clarity.

Quote
LOL, when i started reading the "sea inside" rule the first thing that popped into my head was Evangelion, then i saw that note and lol'd
Heh, I had hoped someone would get the reference. I might write up a few special rules for that SoB Eva army, The New Beginnings of His Message, and the Penitent Engines or Dreadnaughts of the 3 pilots.

Quote
and make the sea inside rule differnet, so instead of insta-death, the unit counts as pinned.
Hmm, not so sure about that. I want it to be pretty lethal. And how should this affect vehicles and walkers?
I like what you're doing, but none the less... It's pretty freakin' messed up. Which is cool. Great ideas and concepts, but again, pretty freakin' messed up.
Lol.

Offline Snike

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Re: The Outsider- help?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2008, 04:40:31 PM »
GAH! "Monsterous"! I hate when people misspell it like that!  >:( >:( The Outsider is kinda cool one. IMO I like it a lot. The points cost should be close to 350p.

Quote
Like a grossly distended famine victim, rake thin, half-squatting and screaming, stomach swollen with child. Echoing within it are the birth pangs of the entire universe.
If that's how it looks I'm probably going to kill you.  :P

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Offline Khodexus

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Re: The Outsider- help?
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2008, 04:47:30 AM »
Hmm, I came up with stats for the Outsider myself a while back, and while yours has some similarities, there are some definate differences too.  Would you be interested in seeing my version?
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Offline 666_Mutley_666

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Re: The Outsider- help?
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2008, 04:59:47 AM »
400 points is a bit much compared to the other C'tan. 350? 360?
I should drop the attacks to 3, as it's meant to be more of a shooty-screamy unit.
Edited in the C'tan rules for clarity.

well looking at the other c-tan your stats for the outsider are far superior to ethie the nightbringer or the deciever
i agree with what Everian117 said
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Offline Rasmus

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Re: The Outsider- help?
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2008, 09:49:19 AM »
The Outsider was soundly beaten by Cegorach, the laughing god. This shoud be reflected in a handicap, a grevious wound or faltering leadership (stupidity from FB comes to mind) as well as a reluctance (fear) to fight hte Harlequins. Otherwise it is just another Nghtbringer.

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Offline uriŽl1978

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Re: The Outsider- help?
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2008, 09:58:31 AM »
Quote
The Outsider was soundly beaten by Cegorach, the laughing god. This shoud be reflected in a handicap, a grevious wound or faltering leadership (stupidity from FB comes to mind) as well as a reluctance (fear) to fight hte Harlequins. Otherwise it is just another Nghtbringer.

Or a kind of hatred vs Harlies
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Offline Xeal

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Re: The Outsider- help?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2008, 10:09:33 AM »
I always got the impression the outsider wasn't all there in head, maybe have a slight chance of him tunring on his necron minions  or just wandering about randomly.  The old mad boyz rules from the feral ork list come to mind.

Offline Onanon

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Re: The Outsider- help?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2008, 04:00:05 PM »
The Outsider was soundly beaten by Cegorach, the laughing god. This shoud be reflected in a handicap, a grevious wound or faltering leadership (stupidity from FB comes to mind) as well as a reluctance (fear) to fight hte Harlequins. Otherwise it is just another Nghtbringer.
Good call. Insanity it is.

Quoting from Lexicanum:
    * Insane
    * Consumed many of its fellow C'tan, possibly still has the same desire
    * Drives others to insanity and death
    * Some similar traits to the Nightbringer

Entire article here.

Quote
* Consumed many of its fellow C'tan, possibly still has the same desire
Sea of Dirac enveloping anything and dragging it inside the negative energy pocket dimension within the Outsider. It's gestating something awful, and those cravings must be satisfied by a universal harvest.

Quote
This article gives a brief description of the domain of the Outsider, possibly even its mind. It talks about inverted geometries and an illogical labyrinth (5). It also talks about how it captured 'harvest' and drives them insane but allows them to keep a slither of hope, in a way increasing their torture (6). They also cannot escape his realm.
That would be the disturbed and agitated tomb Mono and Di come across in 'Colony', being warped by even the supressed, dormant essence of the C'tan. The 'harvest' is kept inside the death-womb of the Outsider, waiting for a black birth that will never come, totally alone in amniotic abyss.

Quote
* Drives others to insanity and death
That's what had me going down the Culexus road. The Necrons were responsible for engineering the Pariah Gene, it follows that the idea comes from the star god itself.
Put a psyker in the same room as a Culexus and he will going insane in a matter of seconds and probably die within the hour as his soul is torn into a million pieces and swallowed up by the vortex in the Warp that is the Culexus. Hell - the assassin's even souless enough to turn normal people around him insane.

Now imagine that turned up to minus 11.
An absolute black hole of soul, tearing at those around it.
How can I best represent that in a game of 40k?

Quote
* Insane
The ghosts of a million million souls kicking at the psyche of a star-god, combined with the horror of consuming your brothers. She/he'd be pretty hormonal after that I'd imagine.

Quote
Hmm, I came up with stats for the Outsider myself a while back, and while yours has some similarities, there are some definate differences too.  Would you be interested in seeing my version?
Most certaintly.

While the Nightbringer embodies the fear of death, the Outsider itself is the enbodiment of the Death drive and the need to self-destruct, to go from restless change and movement to absolute nothing; perfect, inorganic matter.

Quote
Quote
The Boy Snide's Outrageously Shiny Leather and PVC clad Soul Train-Void.
Excuse me, what!?!
:@

Thanks to all.
I like what you're doing, but none the less... It's pretty freakin' messed up. Which is cool. Great ideas and concepts, but again, pretty freakin' messed up.
Lol.

Offline Khodexus

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Re: The Outsider- help?
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2008, 12:47:36 PM »
==Ok, here's what I had, hope it is helpful to you, only thing I hadn't finalized was the points costs, I'm not sure if it's more powerful or less powerful than the other C'tan.==

The Outsider
ďIt was silent as the void, and to look upon it was to know terror.  It drifted above us with slow, liquid grace, and its gaze caused madness and despair wherever it fell.  Those it came near took their own lives rather than endure its hellish presence.Ē
Morillia q, Harlequin Shadowseer

Scraps of information gleaned from the infinity circuits of Eldar craftworlds hint at a great war for ascendancy between the Cítan.  The nomadic Harlequins have a legend, recounted barely once every century about the lunacy of the Outsider.  They tell the tale of when the Laughing God tricked the outsider into eating its brothers; the Cítanís unceasing thirst for ascendancy ensured success.  But fragments of its victims lingered, twisted like shards of glass within its essence, slowly but steadily driving it insane and forcing it into exile.  The mocking amusement of the Laughing God earned it the eternal enmity of the Outsider, and the Harlequins whisper that one dark night it shall return.

Of all the Cítan, the Outsider is the least understood.  Its motivations are incomprehensible, even to the other Cítan.  Of all the Cítan, only the Outsider refused to take part in the consumption of its brothers; preferring solitude, and its own designs to those of the other star gods.  However, the Eldar Laughing God supposedly tricked it into performing the cannibalism it so despised.  It is not known why this act drove the entity insane, and yet left the other Cítan intact.  Perhaps something about its nature was anathema to the other Cítan, and perhaps knowledge of this was the reason it refused the slaughter in the first place.  However its madness ultimately became its power.  For none who encounter it ever remain sane.

Points Cost ?   WS 5   BS 4   S 8   T 8   W 4   I 4   A 1d6+1   Ld 10   Sv 4+*

Weapons: The outsider carries no weapons and rarely gets into close combat.

Character: A Cítan is an Independent Character and follows all the rules for characters given in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, modified by the ĎAbove All Othersí rule (may not join friendly units and may be picked out by enemy shooters even if within 6Ē of other targets).

Special Rules
Lance Claws: In the shooting phase the Cítan may make a Ďrangedí attack with his claws, extending the living metal of its necrodermis into blades of incredible length.  This attack has the following profile.  If this attack is used then the Outsiderís Attacks profile in the immediately subsequent assault phase is reduced to 1.
Range 12Ē;   Strength 8;   AP N/A (Ignores All Saves);   Assault d6

Terrifying Madness:  This power is always active and has several effects.
First, all enemy units within 24Ē of the Cítan have their Leadership Values reduced by 3 (minimum 3) for all purposes except for Psychic tests.
Second, all units attempting to assault the Outsider must pass a Leadership test (with their reduced leadership), if they fail, they immediately fall back instead of assaulting.  If they succeed they still may only hit the Cítan on a roll of 6 in close combat.  Models already in close combat must pass a similar Leadership roll at the beginning of each assault phase or fall back in absolute terror.
Third, all units attempting to shoot at the Outsider from closer than 24Ē only hit on a 6.

Gaze Through the Soul: During the Shooting Phase, the Cítan may activate this power instead of firing a ranged weapon.  This power can be activated even if the Cítan is in an Assault.  The Cítan may target any enemy unit within 24Ē in line of sight, that unit must make a Leadership test (with their reduced leadership).  If they pass they are simply shaken, and cannot move or shoot in the following turn, but may still defend themselves in an Assault.  If they fail all models immediately make one attack with their most powerful close combat attack on either themselves or another model in their unit as they are overcome with an unprecedented insanity and seek to take their own lives rather than face such terror.  Their attacks will hit on a 2+ but otherwise are resolved normally.  If any models are left standing they may then act normally in subsequent turns.

=And there you have it, hope you like my rules.==
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 12:51:24 PM by Khodexus »
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Offline Rasmus

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Re: The Outsider- help?
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2008, 09:03:27 AM »
I suggest that as a side note, Eldar Harlequins are Immune to the Terrifying Madness, since it is the chuckle of their patron God, in fact. It won't win anyone any battles, just in there for the flavour and fluff of it.

Is he not a monstrous creature?

He seems very controlled, not very mad at all, but quite sane. Make him a bit more random, I would suggest.

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Offline Onanon

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Re: The Outsider- help?
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2008, 05:13:17 PM »
A possible 8 Str 8 Monstrous Creature attacks, ignoring all saves, at I 4 with WS 5? For something not meant to get into combat, it could certainly give a Carnifex a run for it's money.

Your stats for the Outsider were closer in some respects to what I wanted, particularly
Quote
Terrifying Madness: This power is always active and has several effects.
First, all enemy units within 24Ē of the Cítan have their Leadership Values reduced by 3 (minimum 3) for all purposes except for Psychic tests.
Second, all units attempting to assault the Outsider must pass a Leadership test (with their reduced leadership), if they fail, they immediately fall back instead of assaulting.  If they succeed they still may only hit the Cítan on a roll of 6 in close combat.  Models already in close combat must pass a similar Leadership roll at the beginning of each assault phase or fall back in absolute terror.
Third, all units attempting to shoot at the Outsider from closer than 24Ē only hit on a 6.
Except I'd only drop it to a 5, since that seems to be the 'base' level in 40k.

It's not meant to be a combat god, it's meant to be something that can affect an entire 2 feet and disrupt enemy formations, then to get in close and start hoovering up pretty much everything.

Quote
I suggest that as a side note, Eldar Harlequins are Immune to the Terrifying Madness, since it is the chuckle of their patron God, in fact. It won't win anyone any battles, just in there for the flavour and fluff of it.
That'd be a bit silly if there was a Shadowseer in the Troupe. Just because Cegorach is giving a little snigger doesn't make the Outsider any less of a Psychic Abomination. If the Shadowseer fails his leadership, the rest of the squad has to fall back with him, regardless. Or should this Immunity override the soul-shearing aura of the Outsider? It doesn't really fit in with the effect of a Culexus.

Remember that this thing is the literal mother of all Culexus assassins.
I like what you're doing, but none the less... It's pretty freakin' messed up. Which is cool. Great ideas and concepts, but again, pretty freakin' messed up.
Lol.

Offline Khodexus

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Re: The Outsider- help?
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2008, 07:48:35 AM »
Remember that this thing is the literal mother of all Culexus assassins.
Theoretically, this may be true.  Personally, while there are certainly some similarities, I don't really see the Outsider as being that.

A couple reasons why, for one, I don't think the Deceiver knows where the Outsider even is.  And the Deceiver would be the one who planted the Pariah gene in humanity if that theory is true.  It's more likely that the Deceiver himself, or even the Void Dragon for that matter, is the originator of the Pariah gene.  Or, failing that, perhaps it is something which originated in humanity itself, and the Deceiver has simply cultivated it to create Pariahs.

My Terrifying Madness ability may have some similarities to the Soulless ability possessed by Culexus Assassins, and Pariahs, but it was not intended to be specifically an upgraded version of that.

If anything, I would say the Outsider is the "litteral mother of all Flayed Ones".  That seems more appropriate, to me at least.

Also, on a side note, you might have noticed that both the special abilities I gave my version of the outsider were inspired by that "fluff" bit at the top of my entry.

It might be interesting to write up a table to somewhat randomize the outsider's profile, but I think what I gave it already is sufficient, it's not that fast, and it's primary ranged and melee attacks are already pretty random.  Just because something is truly mad does not mean it can't be purposeful and strategic in a battle.  I'd reccommend looking up the rules for the Dark Eldar Talos, as something else which  is pretty crazy, with some similar rules to this.
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Offline Farseer Wraith II

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Re: The Outsider- help?
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2008, 01:27:10 AM »
Quote
* Drives others to insanity and death
That's what had me going down the Culexus road. The Necrons were responsible for engineering the Pariah Gene, it follows that the idea comes from the star god itself.
Put a psyker in the same room as a Culexus and he will going insane in a matter of seconds and probably die within the hour as his soul is torn into a million pieces and swallowed up by the vortex in the Warp that is the Culexus. Hell - the assassin's even souless enough to turn normal people around him insane.

Now imagine that turned up to minus 11.
An absolute black hole of soul, tearing at those around it.
How can I best represent that in a game of 40k?


Then we would have to delve into accountant rules, and after what happened last time, no one want that;D

But, I think you should just make it a straight up d6 wounds on a 4+, or a 4+ wound for every model. If there insane, they are just as likely to attack with tooth and claw rather than a weapon.  The earlier clawing of eyes actually would mean no weapons.  But should be reversible, limited duration, because otherwise it is too broken.
 
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