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Author Topic: 1750 CSM Tournament List, Please Shred With Extreme Prejudice  (Read 1671 times)

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Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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1750 CSM Tournament List, Please Shred With Extreme Prejudice
« on: October 31, 2009, 09:29:14 AM »
Okay, I'm entering a 1750 point local tournament using my new CSM army I'm working on in a little while. It's not an RTT so it won't have the UBER-COMPETITIVE slant that most of these affairs tend to involve, but it will be quite...heated, so I want to take an army list that does well against the more likely army builds. Equally though, I don't want to take the cookie-cutter boring-as-beslubber Double-Lash/Plague Marine/Obliterator List that tends to turn up at these affairs.

So with that in mind, please tear this list apart, but for preference without suggesting I take the boring standard amphetamine parrot.

Total= 1744 points

HQ
Daemon Prince= 205 points
  • Wings
  • Mark of Tzeentch
  • Warptime
  • Wind of Chaos
An unusual, but I hope rather effective choice. With Warptime, he can be quite the beatstick in CC, while Wings, MoT and Wind of Chaos allow him to drop in if I want and blow away particularly tough units. I'm mostly thinking of FNP Nobz mobs, Terminators and the like here.

Summoned Greater Daemon= 100 points
Summon the Rancor! I just like to be able to thunder a Rhino up the line near an enemy, pop smoke and then summon this guy next turn and have him heave through a likely looking unit.

Troops
10 Chaos Space Marines= 220 points
•   6 Marines
•   2 meltagunners
•   Aspiring Champion with Powerfist
•   Icon of Chaos Glory
Chaos Rhino= 35 points
These guys are mostly for objective grabbing twinned with anti-tank or anti-Nobz. I really hate FNP Nobz btw

7 Plague Marines= 226 points
•   4 Marines
•   2 plasma gunners
•   Plague Champion with Powerfist and Personal Icon
Chaos Rhino= 35 points
Similar role as above, but not so much about the Nobz hunting, unless I really feel like it

8 Khorne Berzerkers= 203 points   
•   7 Berzerkers
•   Skull Champion with power weapon and Personal Icon
Chaos Rhino= 35 points
Objective-grabbing yes, but mostly these guys are there to tear apart standard Boyz Mobs or other horde-like creatures. I've thought long and hard about the Skull Champion and decided that a Power Fist is kind of a waste of Furious Charge really, plus I like having that 1 extra armour-ignoring attack

Elites
10 Chosen Chaos Space Marines= 210 points
•   5 Marines
•   4 flamers
•   Icon of Chaos Glory
Chaos Rhino= 45 points
•   Pintle Combi-flamer
Outflanking flamey goodness, for anti-horde or anti-terminator (I reckon they should halve an 8-man terminator squad with flamers alone. Not able to kill them in a single go but combined with the other high-power etc stuff I've got, it should be able to account for them).

6 Chaos Terminators= 280 points
•   1 Terminator armed with Pair of Lightning Claws
•   1 Terminator armed with Pair of Lightning Claws and Icon of Khorne
•   1 Terminator armed with Heavy flamer
•   1 Terminator Champion with Power fist and combi-melta
•   1 Terminator Champion with combi-melta
•   1 Terminator with combi-melta
I just like these guys. Wound-allocation monkeyness plus some serious combat punch, and a heavy flamer just in case. Guess what the combi-meltas are for. I'll give you a hint, it rhymes with FNP Dobz.

Heavy Support
Obliterator Cult= 150 points
  • 2 Obliterators
Okay, I caved. I don't like Obliterators massively but with all the Icons dotted around this list I should be able to get them in fairly reliably and bring some killer firepower to bear. The Plasma Cannon function should be especially shiny, as will TL flamers
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Re: 1750 CSM Tournament List, Please Shred With Extreme Prejudice
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2009, 10:00:10 AM »
   Looks to me like a very solid list. The only thing I am worried about, is your ability to deal with threats at range. Your army is highly mobile, and can get stuck in after the first turn, but you have nothing that'll really be able to silence threats from the get-go. Not as big of a concern though, considering the pressure you'll put on the opponent. The only thing I don't like, is the terminators, but thats mostly a person preference. I am sure that you should try and get that powerfist into a chainfist. Nothing worse then getting stuck with a dreadnaught. S8 still only wounds Armour 12 on a 4+.

   Really, I expect a list like this to preform quite well. Lots of flexibility, mobility and power. Oblitorators are always an all star choice. Take a couple of them in my 1500pt games and they never do me wrong. You seem to have quite the hate for Nobz it seems ha ha. I know that feeling. The powerfists and abundance of metla should make short work of them quickly.
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Offline Master Bio-Titan BT

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Re: 1750 CSM Tournament List, Please Shred With Extreme Prejudice
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2009, 10:01:56 AM »
I love everything about it!  I would only change one unit a bit and that would be the Terminator setups.

As you know, anything other than IoCG is risky from failed leadership rolls.  IoK IMO is most beneficial CC wise.  I understand this, keep it as is if you wish for fluff and fun.  The way you have them all setup make each casualty expensive.  I would suggest putting the Champion upgrades on the Lightning Claw models for more of those sweet re-rolling To Wound attacks, their only St4 afterall.  Upgrading to a Chain Fist is a lot more threatening to your opponent from any walkers and is better paired up with the H.Flamer on one model.  I just feel that you need more ablative wounds for the termies as they are not cheap and the cheapest ones to take are the ones with combi-weapons.  I also suggest Combi-Plasmas instead of the Meltas just for anti-terminator tactics will the ability to pop dedcent armour, also helps against opponents MCs'.  I just feel that Plasmas are more versatile.


Other than that, the list looks great!  Good luck and let us know how it goes!


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Offline Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown

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Re: 1750 CSM Tournament List, Please Shred With Extreme Prejudice
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2009, 10:14:18 AM »
Sweet, cheers guys.

The Terminators appear to be a controversial choice. Frankly, 30 pt terminators seem rather awesome to me (though I appreciate they actually come to a bit more than that). Point taken about power fists into chainfists, that honestly didn't occur to me in the slightest.

I used to think plasma was overrated, but thinking about it, the extra range and shot volume is pretty cool. I'll be honest, my thinking with meltas was, what else, instagibbing Nobz, but I suspect I've got enough stuff to deal with them at this point. And yes, I beslubbering hate Feel No Pain Nobz, with the wound-allocation rules and taken as Troops with a Warboss, they are pretty much the ultimate pain-in-the-arse, and previous lists I've taken have completely fallen apart as soon as those bastards appear.
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Re: 1750 CSM Tournament List, Please Shred With Extreme Prejudice
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2009, 10:16:22 AM »
You don't like Orks that much, do you? ;)

The list looks solid enough, although you seem to sprinkle it a bit for extra taste, I would not spend so much points on wargear options but I prefer more models to glitter whenever I construct an armylist.

The Daemon Prince is particularly expensive, it might be worth it but more troops are always more troops, I would simply go with Warp Time for cheapness and just focus on close combat.

The troops are sound although I would probably go melta on both the Chaos Marines and the Plague Marines but that is of course a bit boring and plasma still has its uses even if it is a bit expensive.

The elites are mixed. The Chosen are alright in all cases, they can outflank, are cheap and provides a nasty punch for GEQ and MEQ (you do realise you heavily overestimate the impact these will have on Terminators? For the flamers alone to drop 4 Terminators they will statistically need to hit 12 Terminators each, which is quite hard in a 8 man squad :P). The Chaos Terminators is another sinkhole in my opinion with a lot of points that can be useful in other areas. You have no cheap wounds to go first in the squad turn while the icon makes them evil a simple icon of chaos glory keeps them on the field, it is nothing that is so annoying as having your expensive unit fail a morale check and be gone from the field. Personally I would drop the champion upgrades, skip a combi-melta or a pair of lightning claws and make the power fist into a chainfist.

Obliterators always work...

If you do save a few points in any of the ways I suggested (or other) I would recommend some Lesser Daemons or, with a little further scraping and  given the rhino saturation this list has, some kind of tank, a Vindicator never fails to terrify the enemy and it does get rid of those pesky Nobs in a spectacular fashion if you get the chance.

Like stated, the list is good but those are the things I found worthy to comment. Best of luck in the tournament!

Offline archonoftheredhand

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Re: 1750 CSM Tournament List, Please Shred With Extreme Prejudice
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2009, 10:32:55 AM »
I really like this list. It's totaly diffirent but should do really well.

My only concern in this list is that you only have real expensive champions for the GD summoning. So I would suggest to give a Champ upgrade from a terminator to a chosen and don't let them infiltrate.

Good luck with the list, and if you get the time, a batrep would be nice ;)

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Re: 1750 CSM Tournament List, Please Shred With Extreme Prejudice
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2009, 10:44:46 AM »
Yeah, the Summoned Greater Daemon is mostly to add a nice, powerful surprise to the list and because I really want to be able to shout "Summon the Rancor!" in the middle of my games (I love DragonBall Z Abridged). For freeing up points for Benis' suggestions, I suspect that he along with some of the pricier and less significant upgrades on the Terminators will be the first to go.

I admit the DP is rather expensive, but at the same time Wind of Chaos followed by a charge backed up by Warptime should wipe out most things he chooses to take on.

I think the Chosen could probably stand to go down by a few models and add a cheap Asp. Champ for Greater Daemon summoning as well, they're mostly meant as flamer-caddies really. And yeah I suck at maths  :P Although I wasn't that far out 5 flamers on an 8 man terminator squad should average out at 3 and a bit dead by my count (40 hits, 20 wounds comes to 3.2 I think). But anyway, I have enough anti-terminator stuff elsewhere in the list, so they'll mostly be for standard Marines or horde stuff.

The problem with adding more troops is that for a CSM squad to be any use, it will be pretty expensive, just north of 200 points by my estimation. It's extremely difficult to free up points for that, unless I essentially gut other units and make them too weak.
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Re: 1750 CSM Tournament List, Please Shred With Extreme Prejudice
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2009, 02:08:44 PM »
My concerns have both already been mentioned.  However, the solution for one, if you go with it, provides the solution to the other:

I think the DP is too expensive.  I recommend, to save points, that you drop Warptime.  I know that it helps out in CC, but I think that Wind of Chaos is the better power of the two.  It provides additional wound opportunities, while Warptime merely makes the ones you already have more consistent.

The second problem is the high prices Champions for Daemon Posession.  My solution to that is to take the points you'd save by dropping Warptime, and purchasing an Aspiring Champion without upgrades for the Chosen.  I know you were thinking about outflanking with them... but with the short range of their weapons... there's a good chance that the units you want to hit will be out of range when you come on the board, even if you come on the side you want.  Better to put them on the table; where the Summoned Greater Daemon will be a very nice compliment to the squad.

Just a thought.  ;)
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Re: 1750 CSM Tournament List, Please Shred With Extreme Prejudice
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2009, 02:21:58 PM »
Yes, the greater deamon is good but he'll cost you a champion in the bargin. So so bad if you manage to get the chosen on first so he can take over the naked one thats in the middle of their lines but if they haven't turned up by then you may end up removing a valuble powerfist that you'd rather be keeping around.

You could easily chop some guys out the chosen and maybe a terminator without giving you too much problem to have a minimal CSM squad as summoning insurance, they can run forwards mid game to support the rhinos and then pull back to hold and babysit objectives later on. You could even buy them a plasmagun if you feel really nice about it.

The terminators might be improved with a bit of wargear shuffling around as mentioned, I'd definatly have a pleb with nothing but the basic starting gear to absorb the first meltagun wound for the team. You can live with 5 terminators without an issue. I like the heavy flamer, and sprinkle with enough chainfist and combi-meltas to give you options and wound allocation fun and games!
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Re: 1750 CSM Tournament List, Please Shred With Extreme Prejudice
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2009, 02:27:47 PM »
I know you were thinking about outflanking with them... but with the short range of their weapons... there's a good chance that the units you want to hit will be out of range when you come on the board, even if you come on the side you want.

If you do go down this suggested road you might as well change the chosen to havocs and save 30 pts although the champion will be a bit more expensive but you still save 25 pts.

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Re: 1750 CSM Tournament List, Please Shred With Extreme Prejudice
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2009, 02:56:32 PM »
That's fair, plus in a tournament setting there'll most likely be a variety of things that mess with my reserves anyway.

Fair point also about dropping Warp Time. I'm pretty sure this tournament's going to involve a lot of rules anality, so I might end up getting screwed by that anyway.
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Re: 1750 CSM Tournament List, Please Shred With Extreme Prejudice
« Reply #11 on: November 1, 2009, 10:13:01 PM »
extreme prejudice.........

well, some of my main issues with this list.

terminators, 6 basic terminators costs 180pts. your 6 cost 280pts. i dont feel that 100pts of upgrades is neccesay, I feel it is really over.
-the needed/reasonable purchases you've made: 3 combi-meltas, power fist(chainfist is better, but still)
-choices that are fine for their points: heavy flamer
-too expensive: the pairs of lightning claws and the champion upgrades

chosen, you dont need 10 of them to fulfill their role.
-atleast drop 2 guys in the squad, to get the most saved points, drop the unit to a squad of 5 with the flamers. very, very inexpensive
-lack of a champion (get to this later)
-combi-flamer is a bit expensive, but not too bad

greater daemon, who is it being summoned off of? all your champions are high points cost and add a lot to their respective squads. you should use a chosen champ to summon this off of outflanking, off of a unit of 8 chosen IMO

plague marines: in this situation, since they have a CC champion, give them flamers to flame+rapid fire orks before taking a charge. this swap saves 20pts, 10 of those which can give you a combi-flamer on the champion in the squad. and if you want to go overkill give the rhino a combi-flamer too

heavy support: 2 oblits is not sufficient anti-tank. your anti-tank is this, the daemon prince and 2 meltaguns+3 combi-meltas. you need some more, at least id take a melta chosen unit to do a dual outflank approach

daemon prince: i think this could be very powerful, but it seems a bit expensive pointswise. why not just take wind of chaos and wings? its then 150pts and can still kill a lot of nobz. and that is 55pts cheaper.

good luck, Cloud

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Re: 1750 CSM Tournament List, Please Shred With Extreme Prejudice
« Reply #12 on: November 1, 2009, 11:13:03 PM »
Dp is ok, I would prefer a second DP to keep them quadrupled in terms of threat.
Though, unique Nobz may not be a great thing for the ‘205’ DP to go up against.

The GD is at best meh.  Who’s the prime sacrifice?

CSM:Decent.
Plague marines: decent: though I do like meltas in a rhino more than plasmas…I generally reserve plasma for the footsquads.
Zerkers are ok, decent counter-chargers with an 8 man squad and a power weapon.
If you want an charge initiator unit, I do suggest 10 with a fist instead.
The fist only wastes the initiative, but the str 9 is pretty ace at taking down harder targets, and the more frequently hitting fist can screw over T4 multiple wound units.

Chosen: /shrug, decent with anti-horde in mind.
Not sure of anti terminator though.
Termi bases are larger, in addition, I don’t know anyone that arranges them in base to base in an open list environment.

Termies: that monkeyness is only really useful on multi-wounded models.
The only bonus here is not much of a bonus.
How will they be delivered? Deepstrike: then I suggest more combi-meltas (for nobs) and less combat upgrades.

Oblits are ok.   
Though I have heard orks have issues with AV at range…so a Defiler or Vindi can be an option instead of 2 oblits.  Though I would personally still go with oblits.

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Offline Ben Atter

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Re: 1750 CSM Tournament List, Please Shred With Extreme Prejudice
« Reply #13 on: November 4, 2009, 11:03:00 AM »
I just wanted to ask why you have a personal icon in the Plague Marine squad. You have three other icons for deep-striking your terminators, and I think that's probably enough, especially when you consider that you only need to save 4 points to get a champion in the Chosen squad. With a champion there in an infiltrating/outflanking squad if the Greater Demon comes in early it's the best choice to avoid starting on your side of the board and having to footslog, and it's also the cheapest champion available to you.

You don't have to agree about the icon, but I'd definitely look for those 4 points. If you have a unit of Chosen ANYWAY, I think there's no doubt that their champion is the best way to bring a GD in for cost, positioning, and for the fact that the unit doesn't need the Champ/Power fist combination to be effective because the other members can be tooled up nicely.

By the way, nice list - a bit different from the usual, but I think it could still work as well as being fun to play.

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Re: 1750 CSM Tournament List, Please Shred With Extreme Prejudice
« Reply #14 on: November 4, 2009, 11:26:45 AM »
So... your downright asking me to be mean? ok...

HQ
Daemon Prince= 205 points
  • Wings
  • Mark of Tzeentch
  • Warptime
  • Wind of Chaos
An unusual, but I hope rather effective choice. With Warptime, he can be quite the beatstick in CC, while Wings, MoT and Wind of Chaos allow him to drop in if I want and blow away particularly tough units. I'm mostly thinking of FNP Nobz mobs, Terminators and the like here.

Um... Id drop one of the powers. Both Warptime and Winds are good, but having them both on a prince puts him costing almost 2 princes.

And 2 princes would do more damage than a single one.

Summoned Greater Daemon= 100 points
Summon the Rancor! I just like to be able to thunder a Rhino up the line near an enemy, pop smoke and then summon this guy next turn and have him heave through a likely looking unit.

So.... how do you plan for this guy to enter the game anyway? Sacrificing a 70 point fist champion? Or a terminator champion?

You really need a cheap entry point for him. He is not really competitive because of this - you are paying at least 128 points for him, and if the wrong thing dies you could be paying a lot more.

Troops
10 Chaos Space Marines= 220 points
•   6 Marines
•   2 meltagunners
•   Aspiring Champion with Powerfist
•   Icon of Chaos Glory
Chaos Rhino= 35 points
These guys are mostly for objective grabbing twinned with anti-tank or anti-Nobz. I really hate FNP Nobz btw

Melta marines. Sound good.

7 Plague Marines= 226 points
•   4 Marines
•   2 plasma gunners
•   Plague Champion with Powerfist and Personal Icon
Chaos Rhino= 35 points
Similar role as above, but not so much about the Nobz hunting, unless I really feel like it

Why the icon?

I dislike plasma as i am risk averse, but i agree that if you are putting plasma in, plagues are the best place.

8 Khorne Berzerkers= 203 points   
•   7 Berzerkers
•   Skull Champion with power weapon and Personal Icon
Chaos Rhino= 35 points
Objective-grabbing yes, but mostly these guys are there to tear apart standard Boyz Mobs or other horde-like creatures. I've thought long and hard about the Skull Champion and decided that a Power Fist is kind of a waste of Furious Charge really, plus I like having that 1 extra armour-ignoring attack

Id still give him a fist. The extra attack that Zerkers have over standard marines make them really good. On average you will kill more with a fist than with the weapon, the problem is striking last.

Also, the fist instagibs FNP Nobz. Although if your zerkers are fighting a unit of Nobz you might be in trouble.

Elites
10 Chosen Chaos Space Marines= 210 points
•   5 Marines
•   4 flamers
•   Icon of Chaos Glory
Chaos Rhino= 45 points
•   Pintle Combi-flamer
Outflanking flamey goodness, for anti-horde or anti-terminator (I reckon they should halve an 8-man terminator squad with flamers alone. Not able to kill them in a single go but combined with the other high-power etc stuff I've got, it should be able to account for them).

With a champion they are the cheapest entry point for your greater demon. If you plan to outflank them, you run the risk of the demon showing before they are on the table. If you are not outflanking, you would be better off taking Havoks with flamers.

Oh. Give them 5 flamers instead of 4.

6 Chaos Terminators= 280 points
•   1 Terminator armed with Pair of Lightning Claws
•   1 Terminator armed with Pair of Lightning Claws and Icon of Khorne
•   1 Terminator armed with Heavy flamer
•   1 Terminator Champion with Power fist and combi-melta
•   1 Terminator Champion with combi-melta
•   1 Terminator with combi-melta
I just like these guys. Wound-allocation monkeyness plus some serious combat punch, and a heavy flamer just in case. Guess what the combi-meltas are for. I'll give you a hint, it rhymes with FNP Dobz.

If you have spare points on the list, id give them a chainfist.

You *really* dont want your terminators to spend 2 or 3 rounds angaged with a walker. The chainfist is a much bigger deterrend.

Oh. they are also *very* expensive. Think if it wouldnt be better to have a fist/flamer terminator and as many other normal termies as you can fit for the same points... It would be far more durable.

Heavy Support
Obliterator Cult= 150 points
  • 2 Obliterators
Okay, I caved. I don't like Obliterators massively but with all the Icons dotted around this list I should be able to get them in fairly reliably and bring some killer firepower to bear. The Plasma Cannon function should be especially shiny, as will TL flamers

Yeah, obliterators are good. Unless you are pie plate spamming, they are the way to go.
« Last Edit: November 4, 2009, 11:34:28 AM by Wyrmnax »

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Re: 1750 CSM Tournament List, Please Shred With Extreme Prejudice
« Reply #15 on: November 4, 2009, 12:44:17 PM »
HQ
Daemon Prince= 205 points
  • Wings
  • Mark of Tzeentch
  • Warptime
  • Wind of Chaos
An unusual, but I hope rather effective choice. With Warptime, he can be quite the beatstick in CC, while Wings, MoT and Wind of Chaos allow him to drop in if I want and blow away particularly tough units. I'm mostly thinking of FNP Nobz mobs, Terminators and the like here.

Um... Id drop one of the powers. Both Warptime and Winds are good, but having them both on a prince puts him costing almost 2 princes.

And 2 princes would do more damage than a single one.

Agreed on the first point, and agreed on the second but there's a limit to how far I'm willing to go in emulating the boring cookie-cutter tournament lists.

Summoned Greater Daemon= 100 points
Summon the Rancor! I just like to be able to thunder a Rhino up the line near an enemy, pop smoke and then summon this guy next turn and have him heave through a likely looking unit.

So.... how do you plan for this guy to enter the game anyway? Sacrificing a 70 point fist champion? Or a terminator champion?

You really need a cheap entry point for him. He is not really competitive because of this - you are paying at least 128 points for him, and if the wrong thing dies you could be paying a lot more.

I'm probably going to drop this guy.

7 Plague Marines= 226 points
•   4 Marines
•   2 plasma gunners
•   Plague Champion with Powerfist and Personal Icon
Chaos Rhino= 35 points
Similar role as above, but not so much about the Nobz hunting, unless I really feel like it

Why the icon?

I dislike plasma as i am risk averse, but i agree that if you are putting plasma in, plagues are the best place.

For all the Deep Striking stuff, i.e. Oblits and Terminators.

8 Khorne Berzerkers= 203 points   
•   7 Berzerkers
•   Skull Champion with power weapon and Personal Icon
Chaos Rhino= 35 points
Objective-grabbing yes, but mostly these guys are there to tear apart standard Boyz Mobs or other horde-like creatures. I've thought long and hard about the Skull Champion and decided that a Power Fist is kind of a waste of Furious Charge really, plus I like having that 1 extra armour-ignoring attack

Id still give him a fist. The extra attack that Zerkers have over standard marines make them really good. On average you will kill more with a fist than with the weapon, the problem is striking last.

Also, the fist instagibs FNP Nobz. Although if your zerkers are fighting a unit of Nobz you might be in trouble.

Most of the things I'd likely launch these guys into combat with, I'm not going to need that huge amount of strength. Strength 5 with 5 attacks will be more than enough for my purposes, and striking in initiative order is more useful.

And yeah, I'm sure as beslubber not charging FNP Nobz with Berzerkers.

Elites
10 Chosen Chaos Space Marines= 210 points
•   5 Marines
•   4 flamers
•   Icon of Chaos Glory
Chaos Rhino= 45 points
•   Pintle Combi-flamer
Outflanking flamey goodness, for anti-horde or anti-terminator (I reckon they should halve an 8-man terminator squad with flamers alone. Not able to kill them in a single go but combined with the other high-power etc stuff I've got, it should be able to account for them).

With a champion they are the cheapest entry point for your greater demon. If you plan to outflank them, you run the risk of the demon showing before they are on the table. If you are not outflanking, you would be better off taking Havoks with flamers.

Oh. Give them 5 flamers instead of 4.

Huh. I just looked at the army list and I can in fact give them 5. That layout is WEIRD

6 Chaos Terminators= 280 points
•   1 Terminator armed with Pair of Lightning Claws
•   1 Terminator armed with Pair of Lightning Claws and Icon of Khorne
•   1 Terminator armed with Heavy flamer
•   1 Terminator Champion with Power fist and combi-melta
•   1 Terminator Champion with combi-melta
•   1 Terminator with combi-melta
I just like these guys. Wound-allocation monkeyness plus some serious combat punch, and a heavy flamer just in case. Guess what the combi-meltas are for. I'll give you a hint, it rhymes with FNP Dobz.

If you have spare points on the list, id give them a chainfist.

You *really* dont want your terminators to spend 2 or 3 rounds angaged with a walker. The chainfist is a much bigger deterrend.

Oh. they are also *very* expensive. Think if it wouldnt be better to have a fist/flamer terminator and as many other normal termies as you can fit for the same points... It would be far more durable.

Chainfist no problem.

I still think being able to rock the combi-weaponry and so on and so forth would be more useful than just normal power weapons, but I'm apparently in the minority on this one, so I bow to your superior expertise
The forum rules are fair and just. *twitch*

Offline enlargingcloud

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Re: 1750 CSM Tournament List, Please Shred With Extreme Prejudice
« Reply #16 on: November 4, 2009, 06:06:19 PM »
understand that combi-weapons are VERY GOOD

just that paying twice as many points to give every guy in the squad a special CC weapon is the good.

understand that SM Termies are 10pts more than ours, so giving our guys those guns makes us cost the same # of points, but we have worse heavy weapons, no combat tactics, and no storm bolters (our weapons need to get close to be better). so giving all our guys combi-weapons makes them 35pts, and can make them more powerful, as droping 5 combi-plasmas can really wreck MEQ's, or 5 combi-meltas. only get 1-2 chain/power fists after that, because then that makes them not vulnerable to walkers up close.

my main concern for your terminators is the choice of lightning claws, as they take up too many points and aren't as powerful as powerfists. they are only really useful on slaanesh terminators, as they really need to use their initiative, and lightning claws are the only weapon that they can get that lets them become more powerful while using their initiative.

basically, id go heavy flamer+4 combi weapons. then maybe 1-2 fists. no champion upgrades (not worth it, IoK does this to every guy, while saving 10pts per each guy over 2 in the squad. so this saves 30pts to upgrading all of your terminators.), IoK is fine. its pretty good, if you know they will get into close quarters a decent amount, 20pts for this ability is never too much, and it doesn't hurt to add 1-3 more terminators to the unit if they all get +1 attack.....also keep in mind the power weapons hit the nobz first and en masse can really kill some before they attack. drop down, fire 8 meltaguns, melting maybe 5 of them, then power weapons can hopefully get a good amount of them after. also keep in mind, if you drop, you can save combi-meltas, fire 4 at one tank, then save 4 for later in case you need them.

8 terminators, heavy flamer, combi melta x7, chainfist, IoK=315
-this will wreck nobz. IMO of course


 


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