Topic: Buildings, emplaced guns and orders (and annoying predicaments)

[The Unseenly Invincible]

  I had a bit of a strange predicament, when I was testing out a bastion with a CCS inside (on the battlements). The story goes that I really want to shoot at this defiler, and since its a vehicle, I can order Bring it Down! Issue is, can I do this on top of a building. The wording for the orders, is, more-or-less "can't be issued to units inside a transport", but it doesn't say building. So I assume the Company Commander could of issued the order to his own squad.
  The second problem was if I could fire the Icarus Lascannon (was using a store Bastion, which didn't have a Quad Gun...) as Twin-linked. The wording is along the lines of "twin-links weapons of the squad," or something like that. The Icarus Lascannon isn't exactly belonging to the squad, but it's still being fire by it. Peoples opinions?
  Third thing: can I issue orders from the battlements to another unit? I can't issue orders "from inside a vehicle" but vehicle and building are two different things.

[Azgard]

at work so I cannot look up the rules atm.
But you could issue orders into and out of buildings before.
Now your just allowed to buy buildings.
No change to the way orders function in or out of them.

[JusticeCetin]

Well the things i note are this

Building are treated as transport veihlces, so i don't think your CCS could order a unit inside with BID, although since it is on a battlement, which is a special part of a building, and they can be shot at/ assaulted, they are effectively in terrain, where they could issue to themselves.  If you issue BID, the big question here is in the wording of the order.  it says, "Counting their weapons as twin linked" which refers to the weapons they fire.  So yes, i could see you giving BID to a CCS on a battlement with the Icarus, and you should be able to have it be Twin Linked.

But no, you cannot issue an order into a building, unless my Melta Vets can do BID inside a Chimera.  If i read the rules correctly, Bastions are effectively immobile transports (among other things.  )

[RandomGuardsman]

Building are treated as transport veihlces

 I am digging around to try to find a clause that states this. So far all I have found is the line on page 92, first sentence of the second paragraph that states "use aspects of the Transport vehicle rules." Then in other areas of the 'Buildings' section it references some rules that apply to transport vehicles but does not refer to the building as being, or is treated as, a Transport vehicle. I find it slightly vague. 

 I am going to ask around for a few more opinions to see if I missed something (as I have a massive migraine) but unless I see otherwise, I am leaning towards being able to use orders on units inside a building. 

[jawmonkey]

I can imagine a red-faced imperial on the battlements roaring at the troops, but inside the building... I'd allow it if everyone had voxes!

On battlements: I would allow it as long as everyone has line of sight, range, and whatnot. Or at least I cannot recall a contradicting rule offhand from the rulebook.

Inside buildings: I can't find any rules that would support this.

Issued order to squad next to gun emplacement: I would allow it. Orders basically,"counting their weapons as TL" (p. 30, IG codex), emplacements (P.96 and P.105, BDB) I don't want to quote all that, but from what I can gather, I think the weapon is more or less the model's that is in base contact with. Not sure how to word this argument... my votes on yes, yes you can TL it with that order.

[Nemo vas Varya]

I can imagine a red-faced imperial on the battlements roaring at the troops, but inside the building... I'd allow it if everyone had voxes!

On battlements: I would allow it as long as everyone has line of sight, range, and whatnot. Or at least I cannot recall a contradicting rule offhand from the rulebook.

Inside buildings: I can't find any rules that would support this.

Issued order to squad next to gun emplacement: I would allow it. Orders basically,"counting their weapons as TL" (p. 30, IG codex), emplacements (P.96 and P.105, BDB) I don't want to quote all that, but from what I can gather, I think the weapon is more or less the model's that is in base contact with. Not sure how to word this argument... my votes on yes, yes you can TL it with that order.

Oh... Quad with Fire on My Target... already has TL, so might as well give it reroll cover saves :-p I like this idea.

[jawmonkey]

Let them have their cover saves, I'd rather them be cowering in the mud and bayonetted rather than give them the grace of getting shot in the face! Forward you dogs!

Just don't forget to finish giving all your orders before your officer gets so riled up he has to man the quad gun himself and release some steam!

[Hymirl, Space Machine!]

Units inside buildings are treated just the same as those inside transports. So orders can't be issued in or out of them. The chimera is unique in it's ability to allow orders to be given from inside it.

Units on the battlements seem to be just standing on top. There isn't a size restriction for the unit, and normal penalties like models taking up two transport spaces aren't in force either. So I would agree that you can treat like models behind any other kind of cover.

The empacement gun is fired by a model in the unit, so it would count as the unit's firing with all the normal bonuses and penalties that unit would have. Just make sure you nominate the commissar to fire it, so that it shoots straight!

But you could issue orders into and out of buildings before.

No, you could not.

[Shadowbreed]

which is a special part of a building, and they can be shot at/ assaulted, they are effectively in terrain.

They actually can't be assaulted directly, except by units in the same building (page 96)


Page 16 on planetstrike, mentions a rule in which you have to inform your opponent which models are inside the bastion, and which are on the roof.
I'd say between that, and the rules in 6th (page 95, "a different unit can be'on top'of it"), the models on the roof/battlements are not "inside" as such, and could be issued orders.

[RandomGuardsman]

Units inside buildings are treated just the same as those inside transports. So orders can't be issued in or out of them.

 Do you have a page reference to a rule that states that they are treated exactly as if they are in a transport, or that the building is treated like a transport/vehicle. So far all I have seen is a few clauses that reference rules they share, but no actual wording to support this. Any help to speed up the process so I can stop looking at this damn book would be a great help.