Topic: Mechanized marines

[Minorboy]

Okay, I haven't seen any other threads about this, so I figured I'd ask, Is it wise to make a mechanized marine army?  I use 2 land raiders to carry my close combat squads (LR for my command, then a LRC for assault termies w/chaplain) and Lascannon razorbacks for my squads. I like the idea and look of the mechanized force, but there are games where I think that the razorbacks are lacking, but I don't like to get rid of them, because that's 3 T.L lascannons in the army that I would lose, unless I can make up the tank killing ability for 240 points, any suggestions?

I'll post an inventory when I get the chance, but I know I've got enough marines to fill 2 organization charts, one filled with foot slogging or tank riding goodness, as well as a few dreadnaughts(6), and a list of bikes, assault marines, landspeeders, and the like that are fast, the fast stuff started out as white scars, but got put on the back burner when they got rid of the white scars(in a way), so if anyone can help me figure out wether it's wise to pay the points for all the rides, or maybe drop some for other units?

[Mordekiem]

I am not a big fan of SM vehicles because they are too easy to kill off.  Our only 'best' ones are the LR and LRC, but they cost an arm and a leg and can still die to a single lascannon shot.
Predators have av 13 on the front, but only 11 on the sides.  Severely limiting where they can go and making them vulnerable to quick units with anything str 5 or more.
Razorbacks are not that great, though I love the idea (they went from godly to not so hot from 3rd ed to 4th).  In reality though they make poor transports since they can only carry 6 guys and are more expensive than a rhino to lose.  They make poor tanks since they got AV 11 and a heavy bolter can pop them.  For the cost of a LC equipped razorback you are well on your way to buying a predator with heavier armor (at least in the front).
Vindicator can drop a big pieplate, but has shorter range than the pred.  Otherwise it has similar issues.
I do like the whirlwind though.  The indirect fire ability makes its light armor and vulnerablity much less of an issue.  And against some armies it is a godsend.  Even against marines it can cause some damage and problems if not dealt with.  and it is cheap that if it is lost then you are not out alot of points.
Speeders are similar in that they are cheap and pack good firepower.  They will eventually die though since they have paper for armor as well.

All that being said there are still people who swear by mech marines.  I love the idea of mechanised forces, especially marines, but have yet to make it work in 4th ed.  There are people who still think the rhino rush is the way to go and are making it work.  But the learning curve with tanks can be steep and even if they do work for you eventually you will have some very frustrating games as you learn or when you are just unlucky.  It is not fun when all your tanks are flaming wreckage after a couple of turns.

[Magus_42]

I play mechanised marines, and they can be quite effective, although probably not as good as an all-infantry gunline or a good drop pod list. I wouldn't recommend 2 land raiders and 3 razorbacks, however. Too many points sunk into the transports, and not enough points for the men.

I also have to ask how much anti-tank you need in an average game. A LR and a LRC gives you two TL lascannons, a TL assault cannon (better than a TL lascannon) and a multimelta. Assuming the rest of your army has some anti-tank capability, you should be fine against most armies.

[Minorboy]

I was fealing that there was too many points into the vehicles, I don't own a pred or whirlwind yet, but may in the future,

I might just drop the 3 razorbacks and maybe invest in some speeders or more troops, I like the speeders, 2 tornado's and a typhoon are all I got for speeders, and eventhough there lightly armored, there quick, pick a flank and roll it over.
I kind of like the LR's because of the assault hatch, the AV14 helps keep them from getting shot up while footslogging accross, I might have too much invested in CC units, but the 2 I use can kill quite a bit before some armies(I know not all) even swing back. I don't take a vind because of fear of scattering into my cc units

[Lord Commissar Spiteful]

What about using a rolling advance (6 inch/turn max) with Marines marching behind the vehicles for support. (Here the aim is to split enemy fire, while avoiding the deathtrap that is Space Marine vehicles. You deny LoS to the Marines (not sure if you can force leadership checks like this though). As long as you keep the cost of the vehicles low by not taking the TL Las, and arming the infantry with mobile firepower. AT can be supplied by as many Preds as possible.

Not sure if this would work as I'm new to Marines.

[Mordekiem]

re-read your codex, Spiteful.
For most units it says something like 'a squad numbering 6 or less may purchase a razorback.  squads of 10 or less may purchase a rhino' or something to that effect.  At least it does for tactical marines.  perhaps other squads have a typo that would allow it.