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Swooping Hawks and there many uses

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Swooping Hawks and there many uses
« on: October 9, 2007, 04:19:07 AM »
 

SpaNNerZ

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hello everyone
ive been recently toying round with a small army list to play with at my local (and if it works out maybe at the next tournie) and well everytime i run thru the dex' i fall upon the hawks.
now ive only just recently realised that they have fleet aswell (lol sad really) but with this new info in mind im intrigued about wat people mainly use them for in my opinion they are absouloutly awsomeness at just bout everythin.
anyway back to the beef of this post what do you use em for like do you yo-yo em with 2 sqauds and harass the enemy or use em for a last ditch attempt at the objective with skyleap or move 12 fleet as far as possible and assualt the closest tank with intercept etc etc...
the list is endless but im really curious to peoples main purpose for them
cheers.
« Last Edit: October 9, 2007, 04:20:27 AM by SpaNNerZ »
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Re: Swooping Hawks and there many uses
« Reply #1 on: October 9, 2007, 05:54:41 AM »
 

Gutstikk

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With swooping hawks there are only a few builds I actually consider and they are all structured around a tight role with a little flexibility, but I really do try to keep them cheap as they can be very vulnerable and on a point-per-point basis are extremely worthwhile to destroy.

Anti-Tank: This config is six hawks, an Exarch upgrade, a Talon and intercept. It will virtually always begin the game on-table. The hawks really concentrate on killing tanks; if none are present they can shoot at infantry. They rely on innate mobility to perform their function and will play like most any jump infantry.

Anti-Infantry: This config is also six hawks, an Exarch upgrade, but then it uses a sunrifle. This config can start on the table or deepstrike in when necessary as it solely focuses on shooting infantry units. If none are available they can use grenades to harrass tanks but generally that is something the unit avoids. Doom helps them out lots. They will particularly focus on squads that are pinnable.

Both those configs are six models to stay inexpensive but also to boost the amount of time they remain scoring. It is worth a tactical retreat to keep them scoring if possible.

Skyleap: This config only has 5 hawks, an Exarch and skyleap, because while it is invincicible [remains scoring throughout the game because it cannot be targetted] it also will not add a whole lot. Still, the template has its uses and can damage a wide variety of targets. Since you have skyleap why would you not use it every turn? So in this case, nothing further is bought.

Assault: This config relys on Baharroth for bonuses and features a large number of hawks with an Exarch with powersword and possibly a talon. They concentrate on a coordinated charge with Baharroth joined, then make use of hit and run. They have plasma grenades so can flush targets out of cover. This is the least orthodox build but can be highly entertaining.

I think that's all the configs I consider generally useful. Of course, more points can be sunk into the unit to greatly increase flexibility but I find they function much as a hunting falcon would in real life and as a result you want to keep them focused - they are deadly but hugely vulnerable and biting off more than you can chew will make them die rather quickly.
 

Re: Swooping Hawks and there many uses
« Reply #2 on: October 9, 2007, 06:02:02 AM »
 

phisicsbof

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I use my squad go after tanks since opponents don't often see them as a threat to thier land raider then as soon as theve done heir mission i sky leap them out of touble and see where their needed most. But most of the time they don't get into my list because they don't suit my assault tactics.

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Re: Swooping Hawks and there many uses
« Reply #3 on: October 9, 2007, 07:04:08 AM »
 

Trokair

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My army is fast so hawks make and appearance on a regular basis so there role is shifted. For a normal army I would have to agree with Gutstikk, but in fast the have to have flexibility. So I tend to take slightly larger between 6 and 8 plus the exarch.
Often with skyleap. They will be used as either emergency tank hunter (intercept will be taken if I know I am facing a tank heavy army) and in general as a way to distract, eliminate dangerous units, such as heavy weapons, devastator and so on, as such unit are a big danger. It is always a debate over leap and tank hunting, as they become public enemy number one after blowing up a tank, and praying to Ynnead to save them is not really successful.

So they will be there as support, for things I canít deal with the jetbikes on there own. Or hovering around and go after tanks,

Come to think of it I just said the same thing as Gutstikk, so just read his bit, it explains things better.
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Re: Swooping Hawks and there many uses
« Reply #4 on: October 9, 2007, 08:07:14 AM »
 

moc065

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I agree with both of your (Gutstikk and Tau_Worlock).... But I will add this... as Gutstikk said, make them as cheap as you can, and then as Tau_Worlock said, make them versatile enough to fit your armies needs.... Show us your list and we will help you out.

My favoured squad is 6 Hawks, Exarch with Sun-Gun, Intercept and Skyleap.... But that is because I normally run them to start on the table, and go for tanks.... but I also find the "Pinning" effect of the Sun-Gun very useful for those Mob style low LD armies.... and Skyleap is just retarded if you time it right (especially with an Autarch or Baharroth on teh table as well).

I hope that helps,

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Re: Swooping Hawks and there many uses
« Reply #5 on: October 9, 2007, 09:14:30 AM »
 

Bentron

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I use mine as MOC described, with the exception that I've usually got 8 Hawks in my units to withstand a bit of shooting.  (10 Marines with a heavy bolter usually won't kill more than 4 in a round of shooting at 24", which means they're still scoring.)

I also prefer 8 instead of 6 because I tend to use Doom to enhance their ability to deal damage to their opponents.  Their high rate of fire and accuracy (especially the 6 shot Exarch) insures that Doom is quite synergistic.  Pinning (is also useful).

Should the unit drop to 4 members, they proceed to yo-yo, in order to stay scoring and continue to deal damage.  Immobilized vehicles are also prime targets, assuming that they can stay on the far side of the rubble they leave.
« Last Edit: October 9, 2007, 09:17:36 AM by Bentron »
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Re: Swooping Hawks and there many uses
« Reply #6 on: October 9, 2007, 10:30:54 AM »
 

Bronze

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Gutstikk has sumarised several different configs quite well. Of the configs he uses, I find the 'anti-infantry' by far the most useful. 7 Hawks with exarch/sunrifle will put out 18 shots per turn; this will kill a lot of bugs or guard (but don't try it with MEQs unless you have no option!). A compromise is to add intercept to this config; with 24" range shooting there will be little reason for you to close with enemy infantry with this config, but being able to assault skimmers that come to close (or that deepstriking monolith!) can be invaluable.

Going tank-hunting with Hawks is surprisingly difficult, mainly because they get shot: regardless of whether you blow up the tank you are not 'locked' in combat and so can be shot, and if you fluff it up, they are right next to a big angry thing that has lots of guns...

I'm not sure how universal this is, but beware configs that depend on the Yoyo - I know there is variation on this but where I play it is generally accepted that you can't skyleap on the turn you have deepstruck, making it a lot less effective (unless this has been clarified somewhere?).

Cheers

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Re: Swooping Hawks and there many uses
« Reply #7 on: October 9, 2007, 10:45:03 AM »
 

Gutstikk

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The yoyo is in fact legal by raw and the specific tactic is described on the GW website in the Eldar section as a good way to use the unit, highlighting the fact that this makes them unkillable.

That being said, an Eldar army can put out better shooting effects than the grenade pack with much less cost investment - so for that reason I consider it an inferior tactic, not making as much use of the unit as could be done otherwise.
 

Re: Swooping Hawks and there many uses
« Reply #8 on: October 9, 2007, 11:39:12 AM »
 

moc065

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The yoyo is in fact legal by raw and the specific tactic is described on the GW website in the Eldar section as a good way to use the unit, highlighting the fact that this makes them unkillable.

That being said, an Eldar army can put out better shooting effects than the grenade pack with much less cost investment - so for that reason I consider it an inferior tactic, not making as much use of the unit as could be done otherwise.

I agree, for the points you can use almost any unit of shooter to better effect than the Hawk grenade pack, even the often underestimated Guardians.

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Re: Swooping Hawks and there many uses
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2007, 01:36:00 AM »
 

SpaNNerZ

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in reply to MOC wantin to see my list i decided id post it and see wat u guys think i should use it for

farseer
guide
singin spear
78 pts

5 fire dragons
exarch DBF and crack shot
97 pts

8 dire avengers
exarch twin cat and bladestorm
128 pts

10 guardians
shuri cannon
85 pts

5 swoopin hawks
exarch sun-gun skyleap
147 pts

warwalker
2 x EML
70pts

warwalker
2 x EML
70 pts

warwalker
2 x EML
70 pts

total 745 pts so i was plannin to take intercept on the hawks but if anythin else comes up i mite take it
altho my math mite be a little off so correct me if im wrong
im mainly plannin on an army than can take most comers in order for a tournament and ill adjust it accordin to how it goes b4 then
any other contributions bout my army list ar most welcome
cheers
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Re: Swooping Hawks and there many uses
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2007, 03:07:48 PM »
 

Atomic Rooster

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in reply to MOC wantin to see my list i decided id post it and see wat u guys think i should use it for
[...]

Your army obviously needs more anti tank :P
Seriously though, I'd ditch the dragons & change at least one of the warwalker's weapons to either scatter lasers or star cannons.

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« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 11:01:42 PM by Mr.Peanut »
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Re: Swooping Hawks and there many uses
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2007, 06:02:09 PM »
 

moc065

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Here is a tactical rundown of what I see from your list.
farseer: guide, singin spear. 78 pts
Everything you have is BS=4 (Except the Guardians - more on these later) and/or small units, so I think that you should go for Doom instead of Guide as it will help more of your army at 1 time and it really assists with the DA, Guardians, Frag EML's, and the Hawks... where Guide can only help a singel entity per turn.

5 fire dragons: exarch DBF and crack shot. 97 pts
I love this unit.... Versatile and you will be able to squeeze them into a Falcon when your list expands (if you take that route)... Awesome... just use the cover well to get them on site, and don't let them get assaulted.

8 dire avengers: exarch twin cat and bladestorm. 128 pts
Another good unit.... solid choice tof almost any scenerio. I do caution on the use of Bladestorm (Doom would help here again) and try notto get them Tarpitted as their shooting is often their best attribute.

10 guardians: shuri cannon. 85 pts
Make sure these guys cover your Fire Dragons and/or the Avengers.... they are more expendable than the Aspect Warriors and don't disregard their Catipults... they can do well if you try to use their shooting before they get into CC. A bigger squad would help as their low LD will mkae them suseptable to running.

5 swoopin hawks: exarch sun-gun skyleap. 147 pts
Another Minimal Squad... not a good thing as I see it.... If it had the Intercept it might be able to score an early tank; but then the Sun-gun wouldn't really be required as the squad would probably get vapourized shortly there after. I like Hawks, and I can use them to great effect; but, I am used to playing very carefully and having a lot of scarier things on the table that are so fast that the opponent has no time to consider kiling my Hawks.... I would llike to see how you use these guys; but adding intercept and adding more Hawks would not be a bad thing if you asked me.

warwalker: 2 x EML. 70pts
warwalker: 2 x EML. 70pts
warwalker: 2 x EML. 70pts
I actually don't have a problem with these units as the long range of the EML will give them a better survival ratio. The fact that they are Versatile is good as well. You may want to configure them with duel Scatterlasers if you think your enemy will have a lot of light vehicles; but, even with EML's the odds are good that you can drop soemthing, and for 70 pts, anything in the bag will get you their point back.

OK,,,, Now onto how to use it...
First, lets say that you took Doom instead of Guide, dropped the Sun-gun and added Intercept, Leaving you few points to spare still; but not a big deal. I would Set-up with the Walkers spread out a bit; but close enough to actually mass there fire if required and with a decent LOS ontot he battlefield while using cover to block some return fire (Don't forget they may have a Scout move to "Decieve" the enemy a little). Then drop all the infantry into/close to/behind cover but pretty well all together as it will be the Rolling Hammer of the Army. Finally the Hawks should go as close to an enemy vehicle as possible; but behind cover (Well Hidden).  Give your opponent first turn unless he is a Super Fast shooty army (DE, Saim-Hann, RavenWing, etc) this way he will probably waste most of hte first turn trying to get LOS onto your squads....On your first turn, you can now move the Hawks, and fllet them to gain either an assault on a vehicle, or better possioning to assault next turn, if their in trouble - Skyleap out of there. The Rolling Hammer starts to advance, and if they have no targets, then they should Fleet to gain another advantagous position on the table. The Walkers pick the most dangerous thing in his army, move out to gain LOS (being careful to not overexpose themselves, and pound the crap out of his priority target; they make sure its useless. After that on his turn 2, if he hasn'e assaulted into you, you try to gain the round of shooting before assauting with your Rolling Hammer, use the Hawks to Drop that Vehicle or Mobile Snipe and grab objectives, and keep the Walkers moving and shooting from as far away as possible.

I think you stand a decnet chance against most all comers lists, but, experience will be your best tutor.

Cheers and Happy Gaming.
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Re: Swooping Hawks and there many uses
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2007, 10:04:50 PM »
 

Kaledesh

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well, Hawks were one of the first squads of guys i bought but since them i dont use em much, but recently i played a HUGE game 3 on 3 1500pts each really fun but really long...anyways i decided to use my feathered friends and they fared nicely

i took 6 hawks, exarch,sunriffle, intercept and skyleap
a bit expensive but i had room fer it

i deep stuck them and they barley came in on turn two(Autarch saved the day)

they dropped in and shot up a squad of scar boyz that were threatening my dark reapers
and wouldn't y'know it i pinned em with the sunriffle

my next target was the monolith on the table but i had space wolf terminators heading my way...SKYLEAP!

came in next turn and took down some more orks with the nade pack

finally the turn where i was close enough to the monolith, i moved 12 fleeted 5 and assaulted it

intercept let them hit on a [what the Codex says it does]. all but one hit
2 penetrating,and 3 glancing...blew that sucker sky high(taking two hawks with it :D)

so in conclusion...hawks work well for killing monoliths(with some luck)... and other pesky small infantry units and are a good edition to any eldar force

*thumbs up*

Removed rule effect.  -Mr.Peanut
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 11:04:11 PM by Mr.Peanut »
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Re: Swooping Hawks and there many uses
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2007, 05:52:38 AM »
 

TheEldarGuy

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I believe that in the GW circuit, after some test games the Swoops are now dubbed 'Titan Killers'.

Nuff said.
 

 


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