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Author Topic: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition  (Read 1097 times)

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Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« on: May 4, 2019, 06:26:17 AM »
So, after having taken some time to absorb and study the changes, I am interested in my fellow players thoughts on the Ynnari changes.

First off, I do want to say I think as a whole for the game this is a move in the right direction. Ynnari were stupidly powerful while forcing a rather single type of build (more on that below). I feel the changes have helped to mitigate their build as well as their power, without completely gutting them. Without field testing though, it is rather difficult at the moment to see where they really fall....

Quick summary of changes and thought:

Strength from Death: I like that this applies to pretty much every model now. The first part of it is a bit meh imo, but if you can get the +1 to hit in cc, which is pretty easy to do, there are a good number of units that enjoy that. A big win for me though is the relative ease by which it is triggered and the fact it applies to your whole army when triggered. This allows for shooting units to set up their melee counter parts, which I really like the feel of.

Characters: Not a lot of real changes here and the points staying the same on the Yncarne really blows (imo s/he is over-costed by 87 pts), but the real gem is being able to take the Ynnari HQ's in any Eldar detachment and not have the detachment become Ynnari nor give up their bonuses. This has really helped DE especially with 3 new HQ's to help flush out double bats.

Stratagems: There are some decent ones in here, and some meh. Overall, I like the direction taken but I feel they are a bit light. To me, the strats are the tool set you use to adjust and adapt, and Ynnari loses some flexibility here. They keep some stable Eldar strats but don't gain a ton of new toys. Standouts to me are Ynnead's net, Reborn together, Back from the Brink, and Exalted of Ynnead.

Warlord traits: There are some beautiful traits in here. I think these were very well thought out and I am looking forward to what combos I can make with these. Lord of Death and Warden of Souls are the two that immediately speak to me. If master of Death proced on a 6+ to hit, I would be more inclined but alas, it is not so.

Relics: Again, a bit light. The sword is quite nice, especially on an Archon or Autuarch - this can really do some damage. The Pistol is decent but doubt I will ever use...  I think the real winners are the shroud to make some one pretty damn tough to kill, or the locket to make a hero (cue music now).



The winner to me is a Skyrunner Autarch, Fusion gun/Reaper Launcher, lance, and Banshee Mask. Giving him either Lord of Rebirth or Warden of Souls (leaning to the latter) and the Corag Hai's Locket. Let him finish off units with his shooting to boost his attacks, With Warden of Souls, it has 5 str 7 attacks, going up by 1 each time he kills off a unit in CC or shooting....

Overall, I think Ynnari definitely got knocked down a peg, which was needed, but I think there are some interesting combos to be used now and perhaps some units that don't normally see play may get used.
« Last Edit: May 5, 2019, 07:46:03 AM by faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run) »
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Blazinghand

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Re: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« Reply #1 on: May 4, 2019, 03:16:29 PM »
The spellcasting changes seem big. Before, there was no reason to take a Ynnari Hemlock Wraithfighter. Now, a Ynnari Hemlock Wraithfighter is really interesting, as it gets access to all kinds of interesting spells, rather than just casting Smite or Jinx every turn.
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Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« Reply #2 on: May 5, 2019, 07:47:57 AM »
That is quite interesting and something I had not previously considered...

I am toying with the idea of WraithAxes - they may be able to make some use of the +1 to hit negating their negative... not 100% sure yet though. So many thing to think and ponder...

Edit for additional revelation:

I just realized, Ynnari no longer requires one to give up Rising Crescendo, Power from Pain, etc. This is fairly big....
« Last Edit: May 5, 2019, 10:38:31 PM by faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run) »
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Blazinghand

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Re: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« Reply #3 on: May 7, 2019, 03:17:08 PM »
Yeah, meleeing the enemy is going to be where it's at, so it's just a question of how to do it. I wonder if Shining Spears will still be big? Under the old rules, you'd want to run a single large unit, but now that Strength from Death effects aren't limited to a single unit at a time, You may see more 3-elf squads of Shining Spears to get in more Star Lances.
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Offline Iluvhir Strafermeyer

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Re: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2019, 03:49:16 PM »
Edit for additional revelation:

I just realized, Ynnari no longer requires one to give up Rising Crescendo, Power from Pain, etc. This is fairly big....

It is my understanding that you have to give them up in order to actually use Ynnari rules. The exception are the three Ynnari HQs which you may include in a Craftworlds (etc) detachment. Am I wrong?
Because if I can keep Battle Focus and Rising Crescendo in an actual Ynnari detatchment for craftworlders and quins respectively, that would be very nice.

Edit: Rising Crescendo is listed as a rule in some datasheets in the Quins dex, and is never stated as being an army wide rule anywhere. I think it's safe to say that Rising Crescendo can now be used by Ynnari quins. I'm still unsure about Battle focus for the craftworlds though. It is listed as an ability before the datasheets section (and then referred to by some datasheets), so I'm wondering if it counts as a detachment ability (in which case Ynnari can't use it). Would live it if someone could clarify this for me.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 04:45:21 AM by Iluvhir Strafermeyer »
"Consider the battlefield: it is essentially a dawn in grim guise. It is a scenario in which darkness meets light and is annihilated by it.
Imagine that the enemy are the shadows lurking in the night - The arrival of our warhost is like the sun's light breaking the horizon. Let the Bladestorm expel the darkness."

Beaujl'blef Philosophy

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2019, 05:01:27 PM »
The rules for Ynnari explicitly state what you do give up.

In the previous index, it listed battle focus, rising crescendo, and power from pain. In this version it does not. I have read, re read, and read again and I can not find anywhere that says it must be given up, despite a rather exhaustive list of things that do get removed (and which leaves the poor wraithseer unable to get access to some powers that might not completely suck)

If you can find where it says those abilities are given up though, please do let me know, cause I am obviously blind then! This is part of what draws me more to Ynnari now - as I don't feel completely gutted by it
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline magenb

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Re: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2019, 08:16:09 PM »
Battle focus, rising crescendo, power from pain are all unit abilities not detachment abilities, so they still get them.

Some factions, like Dark Eldar can get abilities for specific detachments, such as "Vangaurd of the Dark City" or "Raiding force". Most of these detachment abilities start with "If your army is battle-forged..."


Offline Iluvhir Strafermeyer

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Re: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2019, 07:25:07 AM »
I think you're right. It was just that I was not sure myself, and the wording sometimes confuse me. Thanks for looking into it!

Post Merge: May 16, 2019, 07:28:11 AM
In the future, please use the modify button. Double posting is against the forum rules, and for that reason, the system merged your posts.

which leaves the poor wraithseer unable to get access to some powers that might not completely suck

A Wraithseer in an Ynnari detachment can only use Ynnari powers, right? Isn't that a buff? I always thought the Wraithseer's own powers were lackluster at best. XD
Or am I lost in the woods again?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 07:28:11 AM by Iluvhir Strafermeyer »
"Consider the battlefield: it is essentially a dawn in grim guise. It is a scenario in which darkness meets light and is annihilated by it.
Imagine that the enemy are the shadows lurking in the night - The arrival of our warhost is like the sun's light breaking the horizon. Let the Bladestorm expel the darkness."

Beaujl'blef Philosophy

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2019, 05:38:24 AM »
Unfortunately, no. Again, the rules for them explicitly name what psychic power tables get replaced with the Ynnari table. As the Wraithseer does not use those tables, and is not listed otherwise, he must keep his own awful powers. It is an interesting case, as the main set of rules say you replace all craftworld powers... but his technically are not a craft world power table... but the kicker comes on the Ynnari table where he gets excluded.

That being said, I used him in a casual came the others night and a 1250 pt tournament yesterday. In all 4 games, the wraith seer was my mvp.

I made him my warlord, with the shroud relic and the
Lord of rebirth trait. With a bone singer backing him up, and two wraithlords with swords.

As a short overview of his performance in the tournament:

Game 1, he dropped Girlyman in one shot, who then rezed and spent 2 turns unable to kill the Wraithseer in cc. I, likewise, was unable to take Girlyman's last wound.

Game 2, he tanked 3 turns of dedicated shooting from an ig commander tank and a shadow sword before finally dropping.

Game 3 saw him face down 2 10 man squads of dark Angel's hell blasters. He took about 60 shots on their strat all up and another 40 or so normal over charge. After all that, he had 1 wound left. He finally succumbed in a melee with both squads of hellblasters, a libby, master, and lieutenant.

He hits hard, but damn can he take a hit and keep on going. In the two games he died, I did try and rez him with the back from the brink strat (which, re reading now, I could not have done... oops). In both cases, even with a re roll, I failed.  Even so, mvp of my games for sure
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline magenb

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Re: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2019, 11:45:06 PM »
Game 3 saw him face down 2 10 man squads of dark Angel's hell blasters. He took about 60 shots on their strat all up and another 40 or so normal over charge. After all that, he had 1 wound left. He finally succumbed in a melee with both squads of hellblasters, a libby, master, and lieutenant.

Were you saving like a boss or where they shooting like stormtroopers? :)

Offline Iluvhir Strafermeyer

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Re: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2019, 11:40:34 AM »
I have come to realize that I need to read through some of these datasheets before I post.
So that's what I did, and it occurs to me (about the lance Autarch with the Warden of Souls trait), that he doesn't get to attack with s7. The lance lets him attack on s6 if he charged the same turn; it doesn't say that this bonus is in any way tied to the model's strength characteristics (which does get +1 because of the warlord trait), but is a flat s6.

Still, the bonus attack is always nice, and if for some reason your opponent survives and doesn't fall back or you find yourself locked in another combat without charging, that strength bonus could be useful. Usually it will mean going from a 5+ to wound to a 4+ or from a 4+ to a 3+, so it's not to be discarded.
"Consider the battlefield: it is essentially a dawn in grim guise. It is a scenario in which darkness meets light and is annihilated by it.
Imagine that the enemy are the shadows lurking in the night - The arrival of our warhost is like the sun's light breaking the horizon. Let the Bladestorm expel the darkness."

Beaujl'blef Philosophy

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2019, 05:25:25 PM »
Game 3 saw him face down 2 10 man squads of dark Angel's hell blasters. He took about 60 shots on their strat all up and another 40 or so normal over charge. After all that, he had 1 wound left. He finally succumbed in a melee with both squads of hellblasters, a libby, master, and lieutenant.

Were you saving like a boss or where they shooting like stormtroopers? :)

Lol combination of both. Typically, by the end of a squads shooting, I had 4 5+++ saves to make, and I'd make half. Was taking about 4 wounds per turn, then healing 3 the 1st two turns (2 from bonesinger and 1 from WL trait). Made him pretty annoying for my opponent...

To the Lance Autuarch... I actually found he like the master of death WL trait more. As after killing off three units, 8 attacks hitting on 2+, re-rolling 1's with exploding 6's netted me 10 hits total. It mulched a 5 man guard squad, the company commander, and their psycher in one go... Had me up to 11 attacks base.... and then the rest of the army promptly lit him up, and he failed his rez roll even with a re-roll. But yeah, dude is a beat stick
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Iluvhir Strafermeyer

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Re: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2019, 04:29:41 AM »
One question: I want to take two detachments and make them Ynnari. One Craftworlds, one Harlequins.
My question is - do I need to pick one of the three named Ynnari chars for each one of those two detchaments to be able to upgrade them to Ynnari detachments, or is it enough to take just, say, Yvraine in the Craftworlds detachment and still be able to upgrade the Harlequins detachment as well?
The wording in the WD suggets I have to take one named char for each detachment, but BattleScribe seems to be happy with taking just the one char (in my case, Yvraine).
"Consider the battlefield: it is essentially a dawn in grim guise. It is a scenario in which darkness meets light and is annihilated by it.
Imagine that the enemy are the shadows lurking in the night - The arrival of our warhost is like the sun's light breaking the horizon. Let the Bladestorm expel the darkness."

Beaujl'blef Philosophy

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2019, 07:59:04 AM »
BattleScribe, while a wonderful tool, is not always accurate.

What you read in the WD is correct. This is why some people are a bit upset over having to take Yncarne if they try and do 3 detachments of ynnari, as s/he is quite expensive...

I am hoping to get some reps in with yncarne soon though, so will let yall know my thoughts on its worthiness
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Iluvhir Strafermeyer

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Re: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2019, 09:27:28 AM »
OK, yeah, that really makes me think less of Ynnari. I could live with Yvraine as a psyker, but the other two chars are just not fun. Yncarne is too expensive and Visarch is boring. Too bad.
"Consider the battlefield: it is essentially a dawn in grim guise. It is a scenario in which darkness meets light and is annihilated by it.
Imagine that the enemy are the shadows lurking in the night - The arrival of our warhost is like the sun's light breaking the horizon. Let the Bladestorm expel the darkness."

Beaujl'blef Philosophy

Offline Blazinghand

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Re: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2019, 04:23:28 PM »
I've actually found the yncarne to be pretty good, able to hop around and chop things up in melee. I think yvraine is the easiest to use well, though.
Quote from: Howard Zinn
There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2019, 05:47:43 PM »
I have only used Yvraine (a bit unimpressed by her - she is basically a lesser Eldrad) and the Visarch. Visarch has been... decent. I guess. Not his points cost decent. Maybe... maybe half his cost?

I have not been using him as a bodyguard though... so perhaps... I don't know. He certainly feels lackluster - especially when my Archon with a Hungering blade is running around, or My skyrunner autuarch is dumping out 10 attacks with exploding 6's...

Yeah - he isn't the worst but he certainly leaves a lot to be desired.
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

Offline Hannibal.Lictor

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Re: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« Reply #17 on: August 4, 2019, 09:04:56 PM »
Just getting back into the hobby aftet about  a year, so I am a little late to the game....but.....

Wtaithseer with Lost Shroud....damn son. I think quins are the big winner here and a Master with that  sword is going ro be a killer

Offline faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run)

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Re: Ynnari: White Dwarf edition
« Reply #18 on: August 5, 2019, 10:17:29 AM »
Just getting back into the hobby aftet about  a year, so I am a little late to the game....but.....

Wtaithseer with Lost Shroud....damn son. I think quins are the big winner here and a Master with that  sword is going ro be a killer

You know - I actually find an Archon with the hungering blade to be better off. I have now used Ynnari in 15 games. 4 DE, 3 Quins, 5 CWE, and 3 mixed. Archon, with his 2++ lets me get more millage out of the sword for longer, while my Troupe Master mulches a unit then dies immediately.

Wraithseer on the other hand has been in 8 games, and died now three times. I will take yesterday's game as an example:

After marching across the board t1, my opponent (Farsight Enclave Tau) drops in 3 XV9 Hazard suits with twin burst cannons. That is 48 str 5 shots - hitting on 3's re-rolling 1's. I took 3 damage. Auto healed one. Moved up and started smacking his suits around. Every round, that unit shot him up. I never was able to get to those three suits (damn drones), and he took 5 rounds of shooting like that, and 5 rounds of over watch. Last roll of the game I failed my save and fnp for him to die.

It's hard to fully appreciate until you try it - but he is insanely tough. Hordes he does not much like, but any big models he will just run through. Knights - Baneblades - Guilliman - Celestine - Riptides - Dreadnoughts. They all melt before him... and only 115 pts.

If you are interested in more of my thoughts on Ynnari, I have recently started a blog: Hallsofmirrors
So, what your saying is it's not your fault you look stupid by using words you don't get?
Flawless logic.

 


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