News:

Login  |  Register

Author Topic: 1000 and 2000 pts Plasma/mech  (Read 2048 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lockinvar

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Country: ca
1000 and 2000 pts Plasma/mech
« on: March 22, 2016, 12:52:15 PM »
So my friend and I play every weekend and he plays Tau. I don't necessarily want it to be a list that would be tailored for fighting tau specifically because sometimes other people join our games and I bump up to 2000 points. He doesn't usually bring tanks, the only units of note are a big unit of broadsides with drones and his riptide with drones and the "I am hard to kill (2+4++ feel no pain)" commander tanking wounds for the unit. There are some firewarriors and such but those are meh.

Anyways to the list:

CCS - chimera, lascannon, Kurov's Aquila 205

Tempestus Platoon:
tempestus command - 4x plasma gun   145
tempestus scions(5) - 2x melta guns  90     235

Veterans - Chimera, Grenediers, 3x plasma  185
Veterans - chimera, demolitions, 3x melta  185

Leman Russ Executioner, plasma sponsons   185

total: 995

So this is it. I am worried that I do not have enough boots on the table, but I think that's because I am used to playing with at least 2 infantry platoons. Still I think that I will have to make a choice with the first shots from the executioner whether to put serious hurt on broadsides or to put hurt on the riptide unit. Kurov's for rerolls on gets hot for everything that will be sticking close which I will try to keep at least the tank close so it doesn't kill itself.

I am worried about the tempestus as I haven't really used them but I think that If I drop them in for close support they will be okay. I am also worried that if the tank gets destroyed turn one before I get to go that I may have a hard time with the game as I will have time dealing with the broadside unit. All in all I am worried about not having enough on the table to handle what I will be up against and whether it will be too easy to render me combat ineffective with a couple of casualties. Also no long range armour 14 popping abilities really except for the lascannon but I don't expect to go up against that.

And for the 2000

CCS - chimera, lascannon, Kurov's Aquila 205

Tank commander - 30
Executioner command tank, lascannon, plasma sponsons 195
Executioner squadmate tank, lascannon, plasma sponsons 195     420


Tempestus scions (10x) 2x plasma gun, tempestor w/ plasma pistol  175

Veterans - Chimera, Grenediers, 3x plasma  185
Veterans - Chimera, Grenediers, 3x plasma  185
Veterans - Chimera, Demolitions, 3x melta  185

Hellhound 125

Demolisher 170
Demolisher 170
Manticore  170

total: 1990


Its a lot of the same worries Especially the long range anti armour. The demolishers and manticore will be okay for that, excluding hammer and anvil deployment then the demolishers will have to move up quickly. I find that this list really shores up the weaknesses presented in the lower points one through redundancy and S10 templates. Still worried about tempestus, I just don't want them to be shot by something insignificant and then be rendered combat ineffective. for such a large points investment.

Also these lists are based around what models I have, hence the no wyvrens, I am dying to try one out. Anyways, let me know what you guys think!

Edit: Fixed points costs, and missing weapons(lascannons on executioners) because I forgot to write them down.



« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 10:08:46 PM by Lockinvar »

Offline Spectral Arbor

  • Major
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3021
  • Country: ca
  • Thanks for the help.
Re: 1000 and 2000 pts Plasma/mech
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2016, 06:34:03 PM »
The "Tank Commander" costs points, check the IG codex under "Tank Commander". Roughly 4 meltaguns, if I recall correctly.

Also, if you have access to the Warzone Damocles: Mont'Ka book, you've got a formation in the Russes [Armoured Fist Armoured Company] and they get some nifty benefits if you add an Enginseer to the mix.

You could also run an "Emperor's Blade Assault Company" with the CCS, Vets, and Hellhound. They get a REALLY useful benefit, particularly if you like Plasma.

You'd need to take one more CCS to gain access to double-range orders, orders on the best of 3d6, and a minor bump to lasgun accuracy. I know right, more lasgun hits!

So if you drop the Tempestus, you could buy another CCS and Enginseer. If you aren't super attached to the Manticore, you could add some more infantry to take advantage of the extra orders, and create a serviceable fire support section. [You can take a Platoon as an "auxiliary" choice in a Cadian Battlegroup detachment.] You can also take a Tempestus platoon as an Aux choice, so if you prefer them, you have the order range to make them useful if you drop-troop them. ;)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 06:45:13 PM by Spectral Arbor »

Offline Lockinvar

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Country: ca
Re: 1000 and 2000 pts Plasma/mech
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2016, 08:43:25 PM »
The "Tank Commander" costs points, check the IG codex under "Tank Commander". Roughly 4 meltaguns, if I recall correctly.

I did include the extra points in my points total I just forgot to write it down. I am 10 points short on the 2000 point list and an extra 5 in the 1000 point list. I will edit and write them in.

I unfortunately do not have access to the mont'ka book. I read the giant thread that was posted here about all the formations and what they do for guard and some of them look really good, but I don't have the money for another book right now (also the next book is harlequins).

Any other ideas? I think I may just have to play the lists to see what kind of mileage i can get out of the units before they die. I usually play with melta or plasma vets, but they are usually secondary to an infantry platoon so it will be interesting for me to play them as a primary.

Offline Spectral Arbor

  • Major
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3021
  • Country: ca
  • Thanks for the help.
Re: 1000 and 2000 pts Plasma/mech
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2016, 10:16:25 PM »
Aside from suggesting you find cheaper alternatives to buying a new book? To be clear, I'm not suggesting you try and find copies of the books online without paying for them. Maybe you know of a used book store, or ebay, or something of the like?

At 2000,

If you have variant turrets, Demolishers have got the worst points to results ratio, in my opinion. I'd rather take an LRBT, but I'd even sooner take an Eradicator with a Lascannon and Plasma Sponsons. You get an extra foot of range, three weapons with AP2, and an Ignores Cover cannon for cranking up the casualties on hordes. They're simply better.

I'd suggest two squads of Scions, with a Plasma in each, rather than a single 10 man. More flexibility, better damage control [overkill vs killing more dudes].

The Manticore seems out of place. Everything else is rumbling up, while the Manticore wants to hide. In this case, it's a perfect Deep Strike / Outflank / Infiltrate target for any such unit. Anything that takes out a Manticore has filled its purpose. Rather than a Manticore, something like a Devildog would give you some more mobile anti-tank, while keeping pace with the rest of the clump.

That would also give you points to up the 5-man Scions to each having a pair of Plasma. :)

The CCS is the only Chimera with a Heavy, so you want it sitting still. But Kurov's needs you to stay right close to the action, if you want to take advantage of it. So I'd trade the LC for something more portable. Plus, when Vets start getting ejected from Chimerae, you can issue them orders, if you stay close.

Offline Lockinvar

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Country: ca
Re: 1000 and 2000 pts Plasma/mech
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2016, 02:05:45 PM »
I have an irrational love of S10 templates, hence the demolishers and the manticore. I do agree with you about the manticore, it will have no protection and it doesn't fit with what I am running.

The reasoning for the demolishers is that I love them so much and S10 insta kills the tau commander with iridium armour which he likes to run. I am also hoping that they act as giant magnets for enemy fire because of what they toss around. I think I will get at least one round of enemy shooting before he realizes that lots of plasma templates hurt a lot more than one very hard hitting one. I do agree with you though that they are overpriced for what they do, I find that the new ordnance rules really screw over the battle tank and the demolisher.

As for the manticore, well... its my new model. I think I will leave it out of this list as it doesn't fit, but it has the new model "I really want to use it" advantage. It also took out half of the enemy broadside unit turn one last game which was awesome. It also has the S10 which I can use on the commander to insta kill him or maybe just snipe out the riptide. I do agree and it will be coming out of the list.

So I took out one demolisher because I still want at least one, and I took out the manticore. I have added tempestus command squad with 4 plasma guns and a plasma pistol and I made the other tempestus squad have 2 melta guns for variety (also insta kills broadsides) and brought the model count down to 5. I then added another tempestus scion squad with 2 plasmas and plasma pistol as well.I also took out the lascannon from the CCS and added more plasma guns. This leaves me with 77 points left. List is below any more suggestions on how it is now and what to spend the other points on?

CCS - chimera, 4x plasma guns, plasma pistol, carapace for all, Kurov's Aquila 273

Tank commander - 30
Executioner command tank, lascannon, plasma sponsons 195
Executioner squadmate tank, lascannon, plasma sponsons 195     420


Tempestus command (5x) 4x plasma gun, tempestor prime w/ plasma pistol  160
Tempestus scions (5x) 2x plasma gun, tempestor w/ plasma pistol  115
Tempestus scions (5x) 2x meltagun, tempestor w/ plasma pistol  105

Veterans - Chimera, Grenediers, 3x plasma  185
Veterans - Chimera, Grenediers, 3x plasma  185
Veterans - Chimera, Demolitions, 3x melta  185

Hellhound 125

Demolisher 170


total: 1923

Is it redundant to have 4 plasma guns in a chimera considering only 2 can fire at once? I don't expect my CCS to be providing that much fire support in the first case because they will be sticking close to the executioners so they do not wreck themselves. Also any advice on the 1000 or do you think its okay how it is, I was thinking of changing the melta vets to more plasma for the weapon range but I am not sure.

Offline Calamity

  • Concussor Concussed Dice | Captain
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2910
  • Country: gb
  • Cocking up miniatures since 1998
  • Armies: Kharadron Overlords, Bloodbound, Celestial Lions
Re: 1000 and 2000 pts Plasma/mech
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2016, 01:34:51 PM »
Is it redundant to have 4 plasma guns in a chimera considering only 2 can fire at once?

In my opinion, yes.  Unless you are planing to disembark them from the Chimera and fight on foot, which against the Tau I wouldn't recommend.  More than that, I think that you don't really need all that carapace armor either.  I know that it helps with overheating, but it could be better spent.  And plasma pistols are horribly overpriced and never worth it in my opinion. 

If you reduced your chimera units to 2 plasma guns max, ditched their carapace armor and the plasma pistols, and added in the spare points you have anyway, you can easily afford that second demolisher.  That will be far more useful to you than a few guns you won't be firing most of the time. 

In truth, I think that the only vet unit there that needs the Grenadier doctrine is the one with the Demolition Doctrine and the Melta guns.  Assuming that you'll be getting out to use those melta bombs, the extra armor will be invaluable.  However, if you aren't planning to disembark that unit, then ditch all their doctrines and 1 meltagun too, to save yourself the points.  I always found that with the guard, more models beats better gear 9 times out of ten.  I point to the 500pt list I made once that had 80 guardsmen in it, and could wipe out a grey knight army in 2 turns via overwhelming firepower.  ;)

If you're deepstriking those Scions btw, I would recommend a Navy Officer for the CCS too.  They're always useful.

Offline Lockinvar

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Country: ca
Re: 1000 and 2000 pts Plasma/mech
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2016, 07:30:43 PM »
So, I should drop the plasma pistols, 2 plasma guns from the CCS, the extra plasma guns and melta from the vets, and the grenadiers.

Like I said before I am worried That I am investing so many points into these squads that they would just die if the chimeras pop, which I would expect to. I also understand that even if they were to die, because I saved points there would just be another unit of them or a tank.

I did make an updated list that I didn't get around to posting because I was unsure about it. I basically took the list in my previous poist, removed 2 of the plasma guns and the plasma pistol from the CCS and I boosted the number of scions in each scion squad so that they were a squad of 10. I figured that the extra wounds are always nice before they hit plasma gunners, also the ap3 of the hotshot lasguns would make short work of tau drones.

I will take another look at how many points your suggestions would free up and if I can get around my initial squimishness to finalize it.

Any thoughts on the 1000 point list?



Aright big Edit time.

I have figured out new versions of both the 1000 and 2000 point lists. I will show them then talk about them after.

Starting with the 1000 point list. Due to the nature of smaller points to play with there isn't much change but here it is:

1000 pt list

CCS - chimera, Kurov's Aquila. 2xPlasma gun, Officer of the fleet, meltabombs on CC(5points were left over) 240

Tempestus Platoon:
tempestus command - 4x plasma gun   145
tempestus scions(5) - 2x melta guns  90     235

Veterans - Chimera, 2x plasma  155
Veterans - chimera, demolitions, 2x melta  175

Leman Russ Executioner, lascannon, plasma sponsons   195

total: 1000



There are 2 versions of the 2000pt list.

VERSION A

CCS - chimera, 2x plasma guns, carapace for all, Kurov's Aquila, melta bomb on CC, Officer of the fleet 253

Tank commander - 30
Executioner command tank, lascannon, plasma sponsons 195
Executioner squadmate tank, lascannon, plasma sponsons 195     420


Tempestus command (5x) 4x plasma gun, tempestor prime w/ plasma pistol  160
Tempestus scions (10x) 2x plasma gun, tempestor w/ plasma pistol  163
Tempestus scions (10x) 2x meltagun, tempestor w/ plasma pistol  153

Veterans - Chimera, Grenediers, 3x plasma  185
Veterans - Chimera, Grenediers, 3x plasma  185
Veterans - Chimera, Demolitions, 3x melta  185

Hellhound 125

Demolisher 170


total: 1999



VERSION B

CCS - chimera, 2x plasma guns, Kurov's Aquila, melta bomb on CC, Officer of the Fleet 240

Tank commander - 30
Executioner command tank, lascannon, plasma sponsons 195
Executioner squadmate tank, lascannon, plasma sponsons 195
Executioner squadmate tank, lascannon, plasma sponsons 195     615


Tempestus command (5x) 4x plasma gun  145
Tempestus scions (5x) 2x plasma gun  115
Tempestus scions (5x) 2x meltagun  105

Veterans - Chimera,  2x plasma  155
Veterans - Chimera,  2x plasma  155
Veterans - Chimera, Demolitions, 2x melta  175

Hellhound 125

Demolisher 170


total: 2000



Alright, so I am trying to follow captain calamity's advice and really cut down on upgrades and increasing the amount of stuff. So for the 1000 point list I fit in the Officer of the Fleet and plasma guns instead of a lascannon in the CCS with the saved points. My big thing with the 1000 point list is that I don't want stuff to just die because I don't have a lot of stuff at that points limit but I think I need to try it.

Now when it comes to the 2000 point lists. The two lists show my comfort zone with list writing I think. List A is in my comfort zone, I still have lots of guys but they all have some protection. the veterans have their doctrines and the tempestus have numbers to protect them. I find that this is where I am comfortable, I have some assurance that my guys wont get shredded if the transports get popped.

List B is outside of my comfort zone, but the more I look at it the more I like it and I think I will play it over the other list first, just to see if everything will turn out okay. I took away the grenadiers and reduced the special weapon count in the veterans squads. I don't intend to disembark the veterans but demo charges are just way to awesome not to have, so I kept the demolitions on the melta vets. with all the extra points I was going to initially get my second demolisher in there and add two scions to each tempestus squads but I went with another executioner as that's the whole point of the list, to abuse plasma.

My only worry with list B is that the offensive output is greater than list A, as long as the vets are in their chimeras. If the chimeras pop though, List A would have the extra special weapon and the carapace armour to protect them. I guess I am trying to balance this weakness with an executioner which I think makes up for it but I am not sure yet.

Anyways let me know what you guys think.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 04:16:04 PM by Lockinvar »

Offline Calamity

  • Concussor Concussed Dice | Captain
  • Lazerous Penguin
  • Senior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2910
  • Country: gb
  • Cocking up miniatures since 1998
  • Armies: Kharadron Overlords, Bloodbound, Celestial Lions
Re: 1000 and 2000 pts Plasma/mech
« Reply #7 on: April 2, 2016, 01:51:17 PM »
I'm sorry for tech late reply Lockinvar.  Did you play any games with these lists yet?

I don't have any more recommendations for your 1000pt list.  It looks solid enough to me.  As for the 2000pt ones, I'd had to go with version b, since you managed to squeeze in an extra executioner (which is bound to make an impact) and kept the squads to an efficient minimum. 

I hope my advice has been or will be useful.

Offline Lockinvar

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Country: ca
Re: 1000 and 2000 pts Plasma/mech
« Reply #8 on: April 2, 2016, 10:34:33 PM »
I am playing the game tomorrow. One of my friends backed out so it will be 1000pts against the tau. Thank you for all your advice, I am going to be playing version b when I play 2000 points next. I can't wait to put down 15(probably more like 13) plasma blast templates on a unit and erase it from existence. 

I am going to try to remember to take pictures and notes to write a battle report up. I think it could be fun for everyone to see me play horribly : p


Edit: turns out my friend broke a wall last night at a party and he has to fix it today so the game is postponed until next weekend
« Last Edit: April 3, 2016, 05:01:01 PM by Lockinvar »

 


Powered by EzPortal