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Offline Rayvn70

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Getting back into the game
« on: March 21, 2016, 11:39:55 AM »
I'm just getting back into the game after 2 years and much has changed, I have a couple of questions to ask about the armies I'm playing:

I'll be playing the following armies, I like options  8): Blood Angels, Tyranids, Orks, Eldar.

I'm wondering what books, other than the codex for each and the rules, do I need to get the most from each of them?

And, do I have to use a formation to select my force?


3 Things matter in marksmanship.... Location location location

My favorite part of Star Wars is when Darth Vader flips out and chokes a coworker at a staff meeting

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Getting back into the game
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2016, 01:57:02 PM »
Hi Ravyn, welcome back, sorry about your timing. ;)

Codex Craftworld Eldar is the generally accepted "top codex". To the best of my knowledge, there are some Forgeworld options you could take that I'm not familiar with, but the codex itself is just a beast of unbridled power, so you shouldn't need anything else.

Orks are strongly rumoured to be getting a new codex in the immediate future. The codex has been pulled from GW stores, from what I've heard and that generally indicates a new codex within a month and a half.

Both Blood Angels and Tyranids have about 20 formations each, at least, so I'll have to do a bit of research when I get home. I'll try to check tonight.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Getting back into the game
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2016, 02:32:09 PM »
And, do I have to use a formation to select my force?

No, you don't. You can play Unbound (which is basically "take whatever") or you can just use the Combined Arms Detachment (which is the old FOC from the old days). For some armies and point levels, the CAD is still the superior choice.

Offline Rayvn70

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Re: Getting back into the game
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2016, 05:29:22 PM »
CAD you say? So for example in my BA Codex it has formation called Baal Strike Force with a FOC along with it, is that what you're referring to as a CAD? I'm sorry for the newbish questions, when I stopped playing you only used formations when you played Armageddon.


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My favorite part of Star Wars is when Darth Vader flips out and chokes a coworker at a staff meeting

Offline dog_of_war

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Re: Getting back into the game
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2016, 07:28:45 PM »
There are several 'bound' ways to make an army list. You can use the force allocation chart (foc) in the big rule book (brb) under combined arms detachment (cad). You can take a special foc from a Codex like the eldar warhost or ork green tide. Or you can take formations. You can combine these together to make one force as well and you can take an allied force as described in the brb, as long as it is from a different Codex from your main army. So many ways to make an army list now. And as wyddr says, you can always play unbound, which means you have no foc rules, but make sure your opponent is okay with this before you play, as many people don't see these as 'legitimate' lists.

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Getting back into the game
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2016, 08:02:04 PM »
CAD you say? So for example in my BA Codex it has formation called Baal Strike Force with a FOC along with it, is that what you're referring to as a CAD? I'm sorry for the newbish questions, when I stopped playing you only used formations when you played Armageddon.

No, the CAD is in the main rulebook. It is basically identical to the Force Org Chart of 5th Edition.

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Getting back into the game
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2016, 08:43:44 PM »
The description of the CAD is in the RB, pg 122. You can also find the "allied" detachment, which is somewhat ironically NOT the only way to include allies, which can be kind of misleading.

You can take as many CAD as you have points for. Since I like playing with lots of the "Elite" options from the Space Marine Codex, I often play a Double CAD with 2x HQ, 4x Troops, 4-6 Elites, and sometimes a Heavy Support or Fast Attack option. That's a Battleforged list.

Many codices have their own "Faction Specific" Detachments, such as the Baal Strike Force, included in the BA Book. Only BA's can use the BSF detachment. Instead of gaining ObSec, they gain bonuses when they're charging. You could have a BSF and a CAD, as a legal army. The models from BSF gain the charge bonuses, the CAD gain ObSec on their Troops. But you don't get both, just the models from each detachment get their own rules.

You can add Formations, or run lists composed entirely of Formations. These tend to have specific unit / model restrictions, and tend to have more powerful benefits, or alternatively allow highly skewed lists to be built.

The Archangels Strike Force, from the Shield of Baal - Exterminatus campaign supplement [came in the BA vs Nids box, I think] allows you to take a Formation of 1-2 HQ, and 2-16 Elites, specifically Terminators, Vanguard, Sternguard, and Furiosos. So if you want to rain down 60 Terminators in Squads of 5, in a Battlforged list? This is for you. :)

That supplement also has 12 or so more formations... including the Ever-Popular Codex: Taxi-Service, that lets you take an 1 HQ [cheap Tech] 1 Troop [5 scouts] and 6 Empty Drop Pods. Which you can Battle-Brother and allow things like IG Vets to use Drop Pods instead of Chimera, which is pretty be-atchin', as it turns out.

You could google "Blood Angel Formations" and at the very least, you'd know the names of the formations to source out. Same deal with Nids, though you might want to focus initially on Shield of Baal - Leviathan which allows some nifty formations. Something like 3 Flyrants + 2 Spore mines [At the cost of a couple Marines.] which allows you to basically play something like 5 Flyrants in 1500 points? Something like that.

Offline Rayvn70

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Re: Getting back into the game
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2016, 05:31:31 PM »
So shield of Baal is what I need? If so the LGS here has 3-4 boxes still.


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My favorite part of Star Wars is when Darth Vader flips out and chokes a coworker at a staff meeting

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Getting back into the game
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2016, 06:56:27 PM »
Would you have use of the models inside?

Also, and this is from experience, you can play a better assault focussed force straight out of the Vanilla Codex than you can with the BA. I was doing that for a while. And BA models are awesome. I've made some Death Company into Legion of the Damned. Furioso's into regular dreadnoughts by picking up some weapon arms / hacking frag cannons and adding guns to the front.

I made an Eviscerator Assault Sarge from the Thunder Hammer piece from the Death company, and a couple of chain swords. Looks pretty sweet, in my opinion. :)

Jump Death Company can be Vanguard Vets.

You'll probably wind up bitz ordering for storm shields and thunder hammers for the Termies.

I don't know, I personally wouldn't be spending money on getting BA resources, when the vanilla codex is just hands-down better right now.

Offline Rayvn70

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Re: Getting back into the game
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2016, 09:27:41 PM »
I understand what you're saying, but all my marines are already red/black/gold and I like the fluff better than the vanilla, plus it's just right now, whose to say that the BA don't get a big jump again then I have to redo everything again. Besides I like the challenge of a weaker army, I've played orks for years.


3 Things matter in marksmanship.... Location location location

My favorite part of Star Wars is when Darth Vader flips out and chokes a coworker at a staff meeting

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Getting back into the game
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2016, 09:51:44 PM »
Oh, buddy. There's a challenge and then there's trying to learn Braille with your toes in another language. Sure, everyone else gets a laugh, but you've got to try and walk after that.

Mine are all painted red, gold, and black too, man. I'm just saying, you probably don't want to go too hard into buying BA related stuff, when you could look into the Ravenguard supplement from... er... Warzone Damocles: Kauyon. They have a much more effective Deep-Strike and assault on the same turn rule. Their Chapter Tactics are actually helpful in getting you to assault range. BA Tacticals are crap, but Ravenguard Scouts are fantastic Troops.

They have the Shadowstrike Kill Team. Infiltrate Scouts to a cluster of objectives. Choose whether or not your Vanguard Vets will arrive [no roll]. The VV can assault the turn they Deep Strike, and don't scatter if placed within so far of your Scouts. Add some Dread-Pods and just do what Blood Angels wish they could. [Win. ;) ]

Plus then you can take Skyhammer, if that floats your boat for more drop-assault deals. And basically everything else awesome about Vanilla Marines that suck or don't exist in the BA dex.

This isn't a challenge to your dedication, it's simply observation of the rules that are available to you.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 09:53:24 PM by Spectral Arbor »

Offline Rayvn70

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Re: Getting back into the game
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2016, 09:37:40 AM »
Well, I'll be getting Warzone Damocles: Kauyon today, I was looking over some of the rules in there from screen shots yesterday and I like what I see, kinda wish they'd do something like that for the Blood Angels but hey, someone has to be at the bottom of the pile, right?

If I do go that route I'm really going to miss some of what I think are really powerful units: Baal Predator, Sanguinary Guard, Death Company, Furioso Librarian and my 2 favorites Dante and Mephiston. Hopefully the Raven Guard have some units with Hit and Run or formations with it.

I do like the Raven Guard and I've always wanted to use them, just before there was nothing really special about them except they were black Ultramarines with a special dude named Shrike. I've been wanting to try scouts but the BA scouts are poor units at best.

But to your question about if I'll have use of the models in the Baal set, well the bugs would come in handy when I start them up, he also has a few sets of Space Hulk and I'll be getting one of those as well.   


3 Things matter in marksmanship.... Location location location

My favorite part of Star Wars is when Darth Vader flips out and chokes a coworker at a staff meeting

Offline Spectral Arbor

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Re: Getting back into the game
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2016, 01:31:01 AM »
I'm not a fan of the Baal preds, but that's just me. Sanquinary Guard can work as Honour Guard... though they lose the Jump Packs. If you're handy with magnets, you can swap back and forth between JP and regular backpacks. DC models are the most beautifully versatile kit. With a red paint job they can be Vanguard Vets, or Sternguard, or Command Squads. I took some bolter DC, made up a couple new guys with Plasmagun and Plasma Cannon, now I have Legion of the Damned. Dante is comparable to Chapter Master with Fist on Bike with Shield Eternal... except the CM is probably better on the whole. Mephiston? No, Tigurius. You'll forget Mephy in a heartbeat. ;)

H&R is a White Scar thing, I can't remember any for Raven Guard but I could be wrong.

It's all good about the Box set. The DC are always useful. Not everyone likes Dreads, but I've got 4, so screw them. I bitz ordered some Hammers and Shields and now the Termies are Assault Termies. I was fortunate in that I have a friend that wanted the Nids. And I got the rulebook, which was nice.

Offline Rayvn70

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Re: Getting back into the game
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2016, 04:25:57 PM »
After looking through the rules for the Raven Guard I've decided to start a second marine army  :D, and try to get them to work with my current Blood Angels. They're battle brothers so they should mesh well together till I have more Raven Guard than Blood Angels then the roles will switch to BA supporting RG I think.


3 Things matter in marksmanship.... Location location location

My favorite part of Star Wars is when Darth Vader flips out and chokes a coworker at a staff meeting

Offline Lorizael

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Re: Getting back into the game
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2016, 07:09:56 PM »
The Exterminatus supplement containing extra Blood Angel rules wasn't in the BA/Nid box, it's a separate pair of books (one rule, one background).

Also, the Ork Codex hasn't been pulled from GW stores- it's still readily available and being restocked. :)

Offline Rayvn70

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Re: Getting back into the game
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2016, 10:08:24 AM »
Groovy so I just need that set for the Blood Angels and Tyranids?


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My favorite part of Star Wars is when Darth Vader flips out and chokes a coworker at a staff meeting

Offline Lorizael

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Re: Getting back into the game
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2016, 05:55:07 PM »
Yeah the box is good if you need/want the models. There are some bonus unit rules included, but they're fairly limited.

BA Codex and Shield of Baal: Exterminatus is where you'll find the good stuff.
Shield of Baal: Leviathan also includes a bunch of extra formations/unit rules for Tyranids too.

 


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