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Offline miclantecuthli

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Warhammer AoS Starter
« on: January 7, 2016, 06:11:32 AM »
Some of you maybe remember me. Being a Warhammer Fantasy player, I never posted a lot in the 40K sections of this wonderful message board, but I was an active poster in the (non-GW related) Discussion Board. I stopped playing Warhammer in 2007 shortly after the release of the 7th edition and disappeared from 40K Online in the same period. It’s great that 40K Online is still around and it’s a pleasant surprise to see that some of the posters from 10 years ago are still around.

So, I’m not really a new member, but I feel like one, after 9 years into (voluntary) exile.

My miniatures are gathering dust but the release of “Warhammer: Age of Sigmar” maybe saves them from oblivion! I have a feeling that I won’t be able to resist much longer to give the new game a try … but not before reading here what the 40K Online WFB-community thinks of it.
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Offline Radec

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Re: Warhammer AoS Starter
« Reply #1 on: January 7, 2016, 07:16:32 AM »
 I had a knee deep jerk reaction when it came out because it is so different than what we've come to expect from today's wargames. My opinion now is that it is pretty ok for what it is. Don't try to measure it up to other games, make up a scenario (there is a lot of fan made stuff out there if you don't feel like paying 45 quid for a book), come up with some background story and play a game. My advice would be to limit the model count to about 50 per size in the beginning and not take the game too seriously. Watch what happens, go for the random terrain and events, watch how the scenario story unfolds etc. With this in mind you can have some good time with it without even shedding a penny for the campaign books.

Offline miclantecuthli

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Re: Warhammer AoS Starter
« Reply #2 on: January 7, 2016, 08:38:47 AM »
...it is so different than what we've come to expect from today's wargames. ...

That's why "Age of Sigmar" may lure me into the hobby again: it's new and different.

+ it seems to be designed for smaller armies. The older WFB games weren't really designed for 1000 points (or smaller) games. It will be easier to find the time and opponents for a smaller skirmish game than to spend a whole afternoon/evening playing just one single battle. (Yes, I'm older now, have a full time job and two young kids)

The game doesn't seem to be very balanced and appears to be more scenario/rpg orientated and not at all designed for tournaments. So, the lack of balance shouldn't really bother me as long as I can find someone with the right spirit to play against (or a neutral game master to come up with some cool scenarios).
I 'll certainly give my first impressions here after diving a little deeper in the rules and fluff and after having played a few battles.
Ground Control to Major Tom
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Can you hear me, Major Tom?
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Can you hear And I'm floating around my tin can
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Planet Earth is blue
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Offline Temperance

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Re: Warhammer AoS Starter
« Reply #3 on: January 7, 2016, 12:40:45 PM »
Personally I can't stand it, and think it's a small miracle on their part that GW kept me as a customer at all on the 40k end of things after they killed off Fantasy.

AoS lacks any balance, absent fan-imposed balances. Not to say 40k is all that well balanced.... they've really stopped caring all that much imo... but any pretense of caring in AoS is completely gone. You have models, they have rules, you plop down what you want and have at it with your friends. That might be some people's thing, but it's not mine.

It's not really designed for smaller armies either - it's not designed for armies at all. Sure you can throw down however many units you want, but its a skirmish game at its core, and not like Warhammer Fantasy at all. There's nothing inherently wrong with a skirmish game, but if what appealed to you was the movement, march blocking, ranked combat, etc, etc of Fantasy, then AoS isn't a good place to look for any of that.

Finding someone who has the right "spirit" to play against... part of GW's draw for me was always their brick and mortar stores. I have 0 friends who play any games like this, so it's nice knowing I can drive down to my GW and get a game in with someone I "sort of" know, or a brand new stranger of the day. This pick up and play approach works very very poorly for a game where the balance/scenario/everything has to be set up by two players who don't even know each other.

If what appealed to you in Warhammer Fantasy was the fluff, that's pretty much been torn up as well despite some characters and the races hanging around (albeit with new copyright-able names that annoy me just a little bit more than they probably should). I'm personally not a fan of the new fluff, but your mileage may vary. Fluff was never my number one consideration anyways, so that doesn't make or break anything for me.

I'm about done I guess. I can't think of enough bad things to say about AoS, and would strongly encourage you to check out Mantic's Kings of War or something instead - if you like GW's (wonderful) miniatures you can use them in that system and keep playing something much closer to what Fantasy was. If all you really liked about Fantasy was the limited RPG elements though, and you had no interest in the setting, and you think you can find friends to play AoS with who have the same mindset as you, you can probably have some luck with it. If that's the case, more power to you.
« Last Edit: January 7, 2016, 12:44:04 PM by Temperance »

Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Warhammer AoS Starter
« Reply #4 on: January 7, 2016, 01:23:27 PM »
Welcome back. You'll find things a great deal calmer than they were 9 years ago. Both in quantity and quality. The Discussion Board back in the 2000's, nightmare material at times.
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Offline miclantecuthli

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Re: Warhammer AoS Starter
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2016, 09:27:49 AM »
...
I'm about done I guess. I can't think of enough bad things to say about AoS, and would strongly encourage you to check out Mantic's Kings of War or something instead - if you like GW's (wonderful) miniatures you can use them in that system and keep playing something much closer to what Fantasy was.
...
Temperance, thanks for the feedback and the suggestion.
I might take a look at Kings of War if AoS is indeed a disappointment, but I'll reserve my judgment on AoS until I have played a few battles (or should I say games).


The Discussion Board back in the 2000's, nightmare material at times.

I remember the many intense religious, political, economical and philosophical discussions. I enjoyed them, but can imagine that they kept the moderators busy ...
Ground Control to Major Tom
Your circuit's dead, there's something wrong
Can you hear me, Major Tom?
Can you hear me, Major Tom?
Can you hear me, Major Tom?
Can you hear And I'm floating around my tin can
Far above the Moon
Planet Earth is blue
And there's nothing I can do

Offline Lorizael

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Re: Warhammer AoS Starter
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2016, 07:54:25 PM »
Personally I love it- I was a big fan of 8th (7th was a little dull) and played it as much as I could- I much prefer Aos!

The balance is intuitive rather than based on arbitrary points values. Players use experience and discussion to create the game they want to and make it fair. There are additional rules which offer easier chances of victory if you're severely outnumbered, but the real balance comes from scenarios. AoS is made to run on scenarios rather than straight up pitched battle.

It's designed to scale really well- you can play with just a box of 20 guys and a Hero, or you can go all of the way up to 200 models if you like. Your army can be any size you like and organised in any way you wish. Plus you can mix and match units from different armies for theme and variety.
Despite what some say, it's not a skirmish game, that's not what the designers were making (from the horses mouth)- it's a mass battle game, same as it ever was, but it offers the opportunity to play smaller games too.

AoS is highly mobile- lots more movement and tactical maneuvering available than in 8th ed. It gives a much better representation of medieval warfare: you can have units of skirmishing archers at the front which then fall back through the lines of the swordsmen; ranked combat works excellently with different weapons having different ranges in combat- swordsmen at the front with lines of spearmen behind reaching through to attack.
Units can advance in block formation (using movement trays if you wish), before moving into a line, wedge or dragon-teeth formation for the combat.
A game or two in and AoS seems fairly simple- a dozen games in and you start to realise the tactical complexity involved. Playing AoS taxes my stratgic mind far more than 8th ed. ever did!

Because the game is scenario or discussion balanced, it makes pick up games a lot nicer. You don't have the issue of putting down 1500 points of themed army and then getting smashed by someone's tournie list in the name of point-balance. Turn out some models, play some games!

The fluff/background has progressed significantly since 8th ed. It's the same timeline, just eons into the future. The World-that-was has been destroyed and now the descendants of the Warhammer races and their gods live and fight across the 8 Mortal Realms. In fact, some of the heroes from the Warhammer World are now Gods...
AoS has gone very High Fantasy; realms created, fueled and filled with magic, Gods walking among mortals, Celestial, immortal Warriors...
As yet, we are still to discover a lot of what is happening and what the races have become- the releases are narrative- background is being revealed slowly across releases.

There are so many good things I can say about Age of Sigmar! As with everything in life, it's not going to be for everyone. But it's definitely worth giving it a shot and seeing what you think about it. And doing that is easier than ever seeing as all of the rules are free to download! :)


I'm about done I guess. I can't think of enough bad things to say about AoS, and would strongly encourage you to check out Mantic's Kings of War or something instead - if you like GW's (wonderful) miniatures you can use them in that system and keep playing something much closer to what Fantasy was. If all you really liked about Fantasy was the limited RPG elements though, and you had no interest in the setting, and you think you can find friends to play AoS with who have the same mindset as you, you can probably have some luck with it. If that's the case, more power to you.

 


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