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Author Topic: 1850 of Nids - Rejoining the swarm. Time for some Plasma Pie!  (Read 1509 times)

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Offline Halollet

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1850 of Nids - Rejoining the swarm. Time for some Plasma Pie!
« on: January 14, 2014, 08:37:40 PM »
I played the crap out of Nids in 3rd and 4th edition and I was really good with them.  I usually tabled or got a surrender from my opponent around turn 3-4. Got one surrender at the end of turn 2!  Then, life happened and I missed 5th edition entirely along with all the new bugs that came out.  I got back into 6th with my other armies; Grey knights, guard, Tau, and most recently sisters.  I was waiting for a new codex before I jumped in with them again.  So I never fielded an army with Biomancy, Spores, Trevigons, Doom, etc.  So this new release hasn't phased me like others have been.

So with that in mind, here's my getting back into nids list ver. 1!

HQ
Hive Tyrant - 270
Lash whip and sword, Toxin Sacs, Wings, Regeneration, Shreddershard Beetles
This guys flys foward first turn and gets in everyone's faces.  Plasters SitW over everything for the broodlords, see below.  Then picks off easy units and eats them.

Troops
5 genestealers + Broodlord - 130
5 genestealers + Broodlord - 130
These guys infiltrate forward and are there to mess with low Ld units like basic troops, Crisis suits, devasator squads, Pathfinders - both Tau and Eldar, and especially pskyers.  With the hive tyrant right above them even GK Paladins are taking this pinning test on Ld 5!  That's nuts!

Termagant Brood x30 - 120
Trevigon Tax and screen for them

Trevigon with Cluster Spines - 200
First time using one of these.  Will be there to support the Exocrine and produce scoring units.

Hormagaunts x21 - 105
Runs up with Carnifexes and warriors

Warrior Brood x6 - 312
Adrenal glands, Toxin Sacs, Flesh Hooks, Sword and whip x2, Rending Claws x4, Scything talons x6
Provides mobile synapse and cleans up assault.  Not relying on these guys too much for synapse as they're heading towards the tyrant and the Zoans will be along side them

Elite
Zoanthrope x2 - 100
Back up synapse and blasts stuff and I hope to get a good power on these guys as well.  I would love to split them into 2 broods but first blood exists so ... :(

Heavy Support
Carnifex Brood x2 - 280
Spinebank, Adrenal Glands
Cheap and simple, runs up providing cover for the warriors and is covered themselves by the hormies.  Then, smashy smashy.  Wondering if I should split these up?

Exocrine - 200
Regeneration
I don't know about this guy yet, he's still in the box.  If I decide I don't like him then I'll probably switch him out for a Trygon Prime.  However, a nid with riptide like firepower is hard to pass up.  He will sit in the middle of the board with the Trevigon and be a deadly annoyance to my opponent.

I'm firing off 6 psychic powers a turn with this list too, 2 The Horrors and 4 random.

So, what do you think?

--------------Edit--------------------
So I'm really disappointed at the lack of creativity with this new dex.  I can find more creative ways to make my own Space Marine Chapter then it is to make my own hive fleet.  That's so backwards I think I threw up a bit when I realized it.  So GW isn't getting any more of my money until they do something about it.  So here's a list with the models I own.  I think I like it because I have at least 5 things that cause pinning every turn, maybe more depending on what pychic powers I roll.  I see tyranids as something that should be scary, so this is mostly a fluffy fun list then anything else.  But I would still love to eat GreatBigTree's guard/marine list with it! :D  Another great thing is that only 3 fexes need synapse so that gets rid of that weakness.  And even if they fail, 2 of them will just do exactly what I want them to do anyways! :p


HQ
Hive Tyrant - 240
Lash whip and sword, Toxin Sacs, Wings, Prehensile Pincer Tail
This guys flys foward first turn and gets in everyone's faces.  Plasters SitW over everything for the broodlords, see below.  Then picks off easy units and eats them.

Hive Tyrant (Warlord) - 240
Heavy Venom Cannon, Masima Cannon, Regeneration
Sits in the Aegis line and picks off transports and tougher to wound units.  Cover save + Regeneration should deny Slay the Warlord for a bit I hope.

Troops
5 genestealers + Broodlord - 130
5 genestealers + Broodlord - 130
These guys infiltrate forward and are there to mess with low Ld units like basic troops, Crisis suits, devasator squads, Pathfinders - both Tau and Eldar, and especially pskyers.  With the hive tyrant right above them even GK Paladins and Farseers are taking this pinning test on Ld 5!  That's nuts!

Warrior Brood x3 - 110
Death Spitterx2, Venom Cannon
Warrior Brood x3 - 110
Death Spitterx2, Venom Cannon
One of these guys will man the QuadGun and just sit back and shoot from the safety of the Aegis line

Warrior Brood x3 - 100
Devourerx2, Barbed Strangler
Warrior Brood x3 - 100
Devourerx2, Barbed Strangler
Moves up in cover and lays down pie plates while providing synapse for the assault fexes

Elite
Zoanthrope x2 - 100
Warp blasts things and provides support.  Probably keep them around the dakka fex

Heavy Support
Carnifex - 155
Strangle thorn Cannon, Bio-Plasma
More dakka and more pinning.  Will walk up with Zoans to cover them.

Carnifex - 160
Spinebank, Adrenal Glands, Bio-Plasma
Carnifex - 160
Spinebank, Adrenal Glands, Bio-Plasma
Runs up and hits things with to blasts before charging it. Will probably keep them together for added smiting power when needed.

Aegis Line + Quadgun 100

1835 points
31 models
76 wounds

What do ya think of this one? Also, I got 15 points left to spend.  Any ideas? MawClaws on the Flyrant? Tail attack on one of the fexes?
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 05:19:21 PM by Halollet »
One sure mark of a fool is to dismiss anything that falls outside of his experience as being impossible.

Offline Colonel Twisting Shadow

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Re: 1850 of Nids - Rejoining the swarm
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2014, 11:42:55 AM »
Now, most of this is going to be speculation, as I haven't seen any of our new units in action yet (nor any of the old with new rules). At first glance though, here's what I'm thinking:

2xGenes might be too big an investment.  Sure you'll do well against GK, and solo psykers (elder mostly), but against most other armies you'll fall short.  IG have orders, Orks the mob rule, and daemons have instability/fearless, so the Horror probably won't peg anyone (not for a whole turn anyway).  C/SM have high enough LD (or Vets of the long war/fearless) that you're forcing checks against LD 7, which is slightly worse than 50/50 chance to pin.  I can't speak to necrons or tau, but I've heard Ethereals and Royal Courts could be of similar pain in the neck.  Even still, the genestealers could do some damage, but not a squad of 6.  I'm thinking that these guys are going to cost you first blood before you lose any of your Zoans.  I've played a BA list back in 5th centred around Fear of the Dark, which is pretty much the same spell, and it usually didn't work (unless I took 5ish librarians/furiosos).

I have this suspicion that the goal when writing up the brood lord was to buff a full squad of stealers, with the horror being an opportunity type thing.  Maybe roll them into a squad of 10 with the lord, and keep the horror in you back pocket?  Pinning a squad on an Aegis/Bastion with a Quadgun would be a good target, or a lone Heavy Weapons team/Dev squad maybe.  For sake of comparison, who will serve you better, one of these squads, or another 30 termagants, with 10pts spare?  Food for thought.


The second thing that catches my eye is the naked termagants.  I don't know if it's a model thing, but one of the nicest features in this codex (as you pointed out in a previous thread) was mixing weapons.  how about 15 Devourers in there, with 15 flesh borers as ablative wounds?  The one dropped brood lord almost pays for all of them, and it gives the squad a HUGE boost in firepower.  Whether they get to use it, or just draw more fire off your fexen, it's win/win in my books.

Their tervigon could use a gun too.  That miasma cannon I'm always on about maybe?  It's not the greatest weapon, but it means if you get caught off guard you can leave him backfield in cover and he'll do more than just sit.  I typically took two Tervies, both would bung up on doubles first roll (it's like a 40% chance or something), one would get popped, and I'd hide the other one.  he'd last all game, but he(she?) would kill nothing.  Even a little blast would be great, especially if the warriors are doing it too (see below).

I like to see the warriors, but at 300+ pts, they're quite an investment, at at 1850 I can pack enough AT weapons into a (well balanced) IG or DA list that they'll never make it out of your deployment zone.  Don't get me wrong, I've had 9 warriors with Rending/Deathspitters I've tried in every other game, but they just never pulled their weight (last edition), with the exception of a late game drop in spores (which apparently never existed, according to our new fluff). 

I think the way these guys are going to work now is synapse coverage in small squads, Manning gun emplacements (unless they revoke that), or some kind of clever combination with a Prime for the boosted BS.  Maybe break them into two squads with a VC each, and grab an Aegis/Quadgun, and suddenly you're Flyrant has AA backup, and your Zoan's are free to float around?  Split them up for more chances at Catalyst, or, maybe run one Zoan as a Venomthrope?  Combined with a forward deployed aegis (or termagant screen) you're looking at 2+ cover for a significant part of your force.

The hormies could use Toxins or Adrenals, points permitting.  they don't need it if they're just there to back up the Fexen, but wounding on 4's is a godsend when a wraith knight shows up.  Rerolling wounds on 4's is hilarious when you charge 1/2 of the armies in 40k. 

The last is the Carnifexen themselves.  I can't speak to the 2 units of 1, or 1 unit of 2, but either way I'd defiantly get them some guns.  not necessarily the dual dev dakkafex, but a Heavy Vencannon each would give you some quality ranged AT for not so many points.



This is not to say anything negative about your list, it's actually quite similar to what I've been tinkering with ever since I got my new book; but I feel like misplaced faith in brood lords and CCFexen could cost you.

here's a valuable Lesson I learned about the Tervigons, that took a few losses to figure out.  It doesn't work like you (or most new players) think it does.  The strength isn't in spawning off hoards of termagants to mob the board.  The strength is that it's pretty much the only MC in the game that can score (without a WL trait or something).  use it aggressively, and don't spawn your gants too early.  as mentioned rolling a double on 3 dice isn't THAT hard, and in one or two spawns it WILL bung up.  and you'll be crushed.

I've had success three ways with mine:
Spawn turn one, those are it's shield, book it forward.
Book forward up a flank, and spawn turn 2/3 (depending on how quick your shedding wounds).  Think of it like a rhino.
Get the hive tyrant power, and outflank her, spawn asap.  if any gants are left next turn, use them to soak overwatch (or CC wounds while you Smash).

Take it with a grain of salt, or don't take it at all; but for god sakes get a game in, and get some feedback on this board!  I'll do the same, but my opponent plays strictly eldar (with plenty of wave serpents and Wraith-sh!t), so I don't know what kind of knowledge I'll be bringing back.  Good luck!
Hey! I know!  Let's focus on building army lists, instead of silly custom titles and command structures, yeah?

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Armies:
ORDER: Elysians 2k5, Armored battlegroup 2k5, Infantry Guard 2k, Dark Angles 4k5, Grey Knights 2k
DISORDER: Chaos 3k, Daemons 2k Dark Eldar 2k5, Nids 2k, Orks 2k5
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Offline Halollet

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Re: 1850 of Nids - Rejoining the swarm
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2014, 12:11:16 PM »
I agree with what you said, but I made a second list that I'm much happier about so take a look at that! But I will address this;

2xGenes might be too big an investment.  Sure you'll do well against GK, and solo psykers (elder mostly), but against most other armies you'll fall short.  IG have orders, Orks the mob rule, and daemons have instability/fearless, so the Horror probably won't peg anyone (not for a whole turn anyway).  C/SM have high enough LD (or Vets of the long war/fearless) that you're forcing checks against LD 7, which is slightly worse than 50/50 chance to pin.  I can't speak to necrons or tau, but I've heard Ethereals and Royal Courts could be of similar pain in the neck.  Even still, the genestealers could do some damage, but not a squad of 6.  I'm thinking that these guys are going to cost you first blood before you lose any of your Zoans.  I've played a BA list back in 5th centred around Fear of the Dark, which is pretty much the same spell, and it usually didn't work (unless I took 5ish librarians/furiosos).

IG do have orders, but if they're wasting them to tell them to get back in the fight that means that they're not twin linking their lascannons at me!
Orks do have a mob rule, but that's why my second list has lost of pieplates and Orks in trucks can only be what? 10? So that's easy to pick off 2-3 before making the rest pin
Never faced Daemons so I have no idea what you're talking about... sorry! :p
C/SM Do have high Ld, same with Eldar, but their troops don't and that will be my target. 
Necrons will be a problem, no doubt about that, but I've only seen 1 person play them in my local meta so I'm not worried.
Most of the time I'm facing Eldar, Tau, and Guard.  Maybe the odd Space Marine army.

Locking down their troops means that if they want to move up and score they have to take their big guns and deal with the stealers meaning my fexes get that much closer!  Obviously I can't make things immortal, so something will die, but there's no reason to not have my stealers go to ground for the first 2 turns to up their survivability.  I'll also probably be rolling on the Strategic Warlord table so 1 out of 6 games they'll have stealth Ruins! 2+ Cover! woo!

I hear your counter arguments, but I'll play it out and see how it plays out.  Worse case scenario; I play them for a few games and then they go back in a shoe box under my bed and I bring out the gaunts!

If I do meet a fully fearless army I can always outflank them for line breaker and maybe take a unit down.  But I've yet to face an army like that in 6th edition
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 12:17:30 PM by Halollet »
One sure mark of a fool is to dismiss anything that falls outside of his experience as being impossible.

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Re: 1850 of Nids - Rejoining the swarm. Edited with 2 Lists now
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2014, 04:08:00 PM »
Two individual fex are two separate kill points, but they're also more flexible if you have slots free. More importantly, lone models with instinctive behaviour (feed) don't start stabbing themselves 50% of the time the way units Do!
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Offline Colonel Twisting Shadow

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Re: 1850 of Nids - Rejoining the swarm. Edited with 2 Lists now
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2014, 12:06:05 PM »
I like the take on Nidzilla.  I mean, show me a nid player who doesn't have a shoebox of warriors and gene stealers under their bed since the day they started; itching to put them on the field?

I hear you about the Broodlords, and I really do want to see them work; but after three codices, I'm just to jaded to trust them.  A quick note on them though (not to beat it to death), most IG players (including myself) consider the 'get up and fight' order to be the best one in our arsenal.  It's one of our core strategies to go to ground in your turn, stand up in our turn.  If you pin my LC team, I'm just going to chuckle, then Lasgun your stealers to death.  Same goes for the Eldar, sure you're ruining Warlock/Farseer leadership, but SitW doesn't affect aspect warriors of any flavour, and they're all LD 9 (even without exarch), and it's the reapers/dragons/spiders you really have to worry about.  But for the love of the hive mind PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG!!!!  My primary opponent usually plays elder (in the worst way, too), so if it works for you, I may have to start taking a Broodlord just to pin his Aegis. 

I really think your second list is better than the first, but I'm not sure by how much.  You went from all Ga(u)nts, to all warriors.  Definitely thematic, and certainly looks cool, but now that your running min/max warrior squads (typically for synapse), you don't actually have basically no creatures with IB to benefit.  I always found (as always, last edition) that the big bugs can't hack it in combat with something scary (other nids, Wraithknights, Force Weapon/THSS Termies) unless you've got a big ball of gribblies to eat wounds.  Otherwise, I really can't find anything to chirp you on, except for the Broodlord/CC Fexen, and that's just personal taste.

I'd say drop the Tail on the Flyrant (really? one attack without smash?), shed two units of warriors (keep the cheap ones, and move the VC's there), leaving you with ~240pts.  Grab a venomthrope (or two?) and two big units of hormies/Termies (your preference).

With some clever movement you can keep the Thrope totally hidden behind the fexen (=alive), and a ball of fearless gants/gaunts means you've got 3+ (or better) cover saves.  Otherwise those fexen are getting nuked.  If any gribblies make it all the way across the board they can soak up overwatch and/or provide ablative wounds for you to drop some big fekker.  The other squad of gribblies goes with the shooty Fex, who's still more than capable of smashing the crap out of non-dedicated CC units, especially with them to back him up.

EDIT: alternatively (keeping to your figs) make the same changes, but grab a couple hive guard over the venomthropes.  you could lose the regen off the Warlord to snag enough points for (almost) another one.  If it looks like you won't need them, they double as another mobile shield for those Fexen I worry so much about

I don't know how effective all the bioplasma will be, but I can see that you're using it in lieu of an exocrine, so I won't knock it.  Once upon a time I had a carnifex kill himself with it though, so be careful.

I know you don't have any Venomthropes (from your other thread), but a little blue-tac, and some left over spore vents from your bits box makes a good halloween costume for an extra zoey.


HUGE props on not just going for TLDev spam on all your MCs.  Whether or not it's good still, I don't know; but it's certainly not a creative way to play.  Respect!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 12:32:44 PM by Colonel Twisting Shadow »
Hey! I know!  Let's focus on building army lists, instead of silly custom titles and command structures, yeah?

From the days of the doctorines.
RIP-Goyder, Koonitz, and Jenkins.  Honour them.

Armies:
ORDER: Elysians 2k5, Armored battlegroup 2k5, Infantry Guard 2k, Dark Angles 4k5, Grey Knights 2k
DISORDER: Chaos 3k, Daemons 2k Dark Eldar 2k5, Nids 2k, Orks 2k5
I'm both proud and ashamed of those numbers...

Offline Halollet

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Re: 1850 of Nids - Rejoining the swarm. Edited with 2 Lists now
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2014, 04:45:18 PM »
Quote
most IG players (including myself) consider the 'get up and fight' order to be the best one in our arsenal.  It's one of our core strategies to go to ground in your turn, stand up in our turn.  If you pin my LC team, I'm just going to chuckle, then Lasgun your stealers to death.
I know, so what do you think my Flyrant will be going after first?  8)

More reading, more research, and feed back from websites and I know have ver 3!  I think I might call this one 'plasma pie'!

HQ
Hive Tyrant - 230
Lash whip and sword, Toxin Sacs, Wings
This guys flys foward first turn and gets in everyone's faces.  Plasters SitW over everything for the broodlords, see below.  Then picks off easy units and eats them.  Challenge when he charges on my turn taking out the character without much retaliation, and then their turn slaughter the rest of the squad and make them break and against ini 8, will wipe out anything that isn't fearless or ATSKNF! Every turn minus the 1st one!

Hive Tyrant (Warlord) - 185
Heavy Venom Cannon
Moves up into the Aegis line that I'll place in the middle of the board.  Sits there providing synapse and firing at hard to hurt targets. Mans Quadgun too!

Tyrant Guard x2
Goes with Warlord

Troops
5 genestealers + Broodlord - 130
5 genestealers + Broodlord - 130
These guys infiltrate into my own Aegis that's in the middle of the board and are there to mess with low Ld units like basic troops, Crisis suits, devasator squads, Pathfinders - both Tau and Eldar, and especially pskyers.  With the hive tyrant right above them even GK Paladins and Farseers are taking this pinning test on Ld 5!  That's nuts!  Also can use this power while gone to ground and behind an Aegis that's a 2+ cover save!

Warrior Brood x3 - 100
Devourerx2, Barbed Strangler
Warrior Brood x3 - 100
Devourerx2, Barbed Strangler
Moves up in cover and lays down pie plates while providing synapse for the fexes

Termagaunts x20 - 100
Devourer x5
Goes with walking tyrant to hold center objective behind aegis.

Heavy Support
Carnifex - 155
Strangle thorn Cannon, Bio-Plasma
More dakka and more pinning.  Warriors for synapse but I want him close because in the end, he's still a carnifex!

Carnifex x2 - 320
Spinebank, Adrenal Glands, Bio-Plasma all x2
Runs up and hits things with to blasts before charging it. Will have warriors near them for synapse but will rely on flyrant turn 3 on.

Exocrine - 200
Regeneration
Walks up next to the warlord and from behind the aegis will pour out plasma!

Aegis Line + Quadgun 100
I'm wondering if I should make this a lascannon so he has 2 str 9 guns to fire.

1849 points
46 models
83 wounds

Scary, Dakka, om nom nom, nids.  I'm liking this more and more.

Anyone tries to assault my Aegis line or get close to it will have to deal with a Tyrant, Exocrine, guants and a dozen stealers!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 05:04:31 PM by Halollet »
One sure mark of a fool is to dismiss anything that falls outside of his experience as being impossible.

 


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