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Author Topic: Skyray - must take anti flyer?  (Read 2617 times)

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Offline Manny-Kun

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Skyray - must take anti flyer?
« on: July 29, 2013, 04:53:52 AM »
now that flyers are more common than air, and the tau have received a new codex, theres lots of options to take against flyers. ranging from battlesuit upgrades to tau's own flyers. but one option ive seen stand out the most is the skyray. sure broadsides can do a good amount of damage to a flyer, but with deepstriking armys, I think they are better dedicated to anti-deepstriking armys, but besides that, lets have a general discussion on skyrays.

what experiences/tips/general tactics and ideas do you guys have on using skyrays?

and on a side note, do skyrays always need marker light hits to fire its seeker missiles? im pretty sure it does... hence the network market lights on it :-P
Am i posting my threads in the right place? because i get often confused... :-/

Offline The Unseenly Invincible

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Re: Skyray - must take anti flyer?
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2013, 06:38:17 AM »
and on a side note, do skyrays always need marker light hits to fire its seeker missiles? im pretty sure it does... hence the network market lights on it :-P

Actually no. Seeker Missiles can be fired like Hunter-Killer Missiles, i.e. like a dumb rocket. Indeed, if you really want a flyer dead, you can fire your networked markerlight at the said flyer, then fire all 6 missiles at BS5, without actually using markerlight points on firing seeker missile individually.


As for the Skyray in itself... I don't know about must take. Certainly, it provides a lot of nifty options - it's cheap, it kills flyers, it provides markerlight coverage, and if flyers don't present themselves, you can kill flying MCs/other vehicles. Certainly, the Skyray is versatile and for no great points investment makes up for a few of tau's shortcomings, but there is enough other AA in tau to eliminate the need of a Skyray. When building lists, always keep in mind to never force yourself to take one unit or another because the Internet Says So.
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Offline Shas'Oink

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Re: Skyray - must take anti flyer?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2013, 07:12:21 AM »
Agreed, the codex has many options that can provide effective air cover (a far cry and big change from the previous codex!) There are thankfully no units that are purely dedicated AA - and that includes the Sky Ray. It is one suitable option among many and so consideration really needs to be paid to what other targets or goals your AA unit(s) can achieve, the quantity of AA units that you think you will need and of course what other units you may want to fit in (particularly if they compete with FoC slots).

One alternative I've been using instead of the Sky Ray has been the Hammerhead armed with the FW missile pod turret. This is proving useful against light flyers but is not always for open use.

Another interesting choice is a Riptide with EWO. This gives effective 360degree air coverage with the added bonus of a high strength multiple shot weapon which is, itself, difficult to kill. This is important because if you have only one Sky Ray, (for example) then the enemy flyers will just target it with their first strike to take you out.

I think there are many viable options and ask how many of the alternatives you have tried and how they fared for you!?

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Skyray - must take anti flyer?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2013, 08:42:55 AM »
I agree that skyrays are not must take, but they do have an ability that is often overlooked. Not only do they have the ability to shoot down flyers themselves, but they *also* have the ability to give any other unit that ability, too. How? Skyfiring Markerlights are fantastic since you can bump anybody else to a respectable BS for shooting down flyers without the need to buy all those expensive Velocity Trackers.

In terms of how well the Skyray survives, I've found almost nobody shoots at the thing once all its missiles have flown. To that end, I suggest shooting said missiles as early as possible and then watch your opponent ignore it as is quietly bumps up this or that unit into anti-aircraft specialists.

Having a back-up plan in the Skyray goes belly-up is a good idea, of course. I find the Riptide a poor AA platform (just as I find all AA weapons firing those stats to be), but something like a pack of Deathrain suits (TL Missile Pod) can do a decent job. Drones shooting up the tailpipe of those vendettas also do wonders (surprisingly so, actually) and, really, anything you can twin-link and point at AV10 is going to do okay. Fortunately, given how flyers are forced to fly, getting rear armor shots isn't always that hard. 

Offline Manny-Kun

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Re: Skyray - must take anti flyer?
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2013, 09:27:37 PM »
ive had so far an overall decent record with a single skyray. ive been using the aegis defense line with quad cannon before hand but it ends up getting picked off quite early missing its chance to do any damage to flyers. I thought about using a razorshark for anti air into infantry. but with that I feel like I should forgo going first if I roll for it in order to let my opposing player get their flyer on the board first then mine next to imediently pound on it.

on another side note, I think ive been using the skyray and seeker missiles incorrectly this whole time. ive been using its network markerlights to fire 2 seeker misses each turn using the seeker missile rules on page 68 in the current tau codex. does this mean any vehicle with seeker missiles can fire it like a normal weapon without those seeker missile rules? broadsides included?
Am i posting my threads in the right place? because i get often confused... :-/

Offline Wyddr

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Re: Skyray - must take anti flyer?
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2013, 07:44:59 AM »
on another side note, I think ive been using the skyray and seeker missiles incorrectly this whole time. ive been using its network markerlights to fire 2 seeker misses each turn using the seeker missile rules on page 68 in the current tau codex. does this mean any vehicle with seeker missiles can fire it like a normal weapon without those seeker missile rules? broadsides included?

Yes, anything can fire a seeker like an ordinary weapon. Using markerlights to launch seekers affords certain special advantages, though, not otherwise gained through regular shooting.

Offline Halollet

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Re: Skyray - must take anti flyer?
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2013, 07:26:38 PM »
I was thinking about getting a Skyray since my ability to take down fliers is severly lacking.  I don't like broadsides, they don't fit into my army very well.  TL MP can only do so much so for the points the Skyray looks really nice.  Because you can use marker lights to up the BS of other marker lights right?  So the skyray can ML it first and then you hit it with more ML from something else and then you can hit the flyer with the Railhead and make it a doughnut.

If you marker light a seeker missile on to a flyer does it still snap shot or does it get its regular BS?

And I never knew you could fire seeker missiles just as a normal weapon.... make me rethink them quite a bit.  I might take them on my Devilfish for a first turn shot.
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Offline The GrimSqueaker

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Re: Skyray - must take anti flyer?
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2013, 07:43:11 PM »
If you marker light a seeker missile on to a flyer does it still snap shot or does it get its regular BS?

Does the seeker firing unit have Skyfire? If no then you know where this is going.

Daisy chaining marker lights was something we discussed previously but it was an upsetting concept for the mathhammer players who got upset about it.
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Offline Halollet

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Re: Skyray - must take anti flyer?
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2013, 09:39:42 PM »
If you marker light a seeker missile on to a flyer does it still snap shot or does it get its regular BS?

Does the seeker firing unit have Skyfire? If no then you know where this is going.

Okay, let's see if I have this straight then.  If a skyray used its marker light to fire a seeker from a devilfish then it would only be a snap shot, while a pathfinder firing a seeker from the skyray would hit on a 2+?  Do I have that right?

Quote
Daisy chaining marker lights was something we discussed previously but it was an upsetting concept for the mathhammer players who got upset about it.

That sounds like a very upsetting topic. :D
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Offline Slick Samos

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Re: Skyray - must take anti flyer?
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2013, 05:42:58 AM »
Yes it seems so, it's an identical situation to Longstrike's Tank Hunter Seeker Missiles.

Te-he. Well put Rummy. In short daisy chaining is really inefficient and should only be used if there is really nothing better to do with the second Marker Light unit. The second one has to be a massive one, more than 6, to ensure you end up with more than you started with...

Unit of 6 fires with +1 BS on average will score one more hit...

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Offline ArchonRoc

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Re: Skyray - must take anti flyer?
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2013, 01:45:27 AM »
Just a little late to the conversation....

Skyrays must take AA? No.

Must take in general? No.?

Really very much ought to take? Absolutely. In fact, I take three.

Broadsides, HH, and Snipers just dont produce enough for their points, vs. what one 115 point skyray is capable of? Absolutely. All day, every day. Plus they're quite versatile, just excellent.
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Offline Slick Samos

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Re: Skyray - must take anti flyer?
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2013, 06:16:49 AM »
Other units need to have a proper examination before being dismissed...

Riptide with Early Warning Override (EWO) and Velocity Tracker (VT) threatens a lot more than the Skyray especially those that come in from reserve, especially Terminators. Whilst against flyers it is worse it works well in tandem with a Skyray. As after the Skyray has fired all 6 as it can easily benefit from their Networked Marker Lights. Please note that I don't have a Riptide as they're not my style...

Nothing. Do it the old way of killing their troops and protecting yours...
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Offline Halollet

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Re: Skyray - must take anti flyer?
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2013, 11:16:41 AM »
Just a little late to the conversation....

Skyrays must take AA? No.

Must take in general? No.?

Really very much ought to take? Absolutely. In fact, I take three.

Broadsides, HH, and Snipers just dont produce enough for their points, vs. what one 115 point skyray is capable of? Absolutely. All day, every day. Plus they're quite versatile, just excellent.

I fail to see how hammerheads fail to make their points back.  One good shot from a railhead will take out a landraider worth twice its points.  Ionheads erase marine squads with ease, every turn. 

No idea how 3 skyrays would take on my grey knights as I like to show up 2 landraiders and lots of terminators. 

Skyrays have their place, but there are things they can't do.  Adding in a skyray does seem like a really good idea though.
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Offline ArchonRoc

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Re: Skyray - must take anti flyer?
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2013, 05:20:43 PM »
Never said they can't make their points back, just that they don't produce enough. Personally, I'm a big fan multiple shots. A HH gets 1 rg solid shot, you get to hit 4 things per game, on average, if you live through six turns. Plus, if you are firing at vehicles, the sidearm won't matter. Can it make its points? Sure, and more than well enough. But personally, I carry a lot of tank busting and the HH just doesn't cut it in RoF terms for what I generally need.

Now, sub munitions, mid-strength blast? Rather have 12 FWs.

The only HH I take is ion heads for their overcharge (standard:again, 2 or 3 marines per turn? Just not enough for what I'm looking for). So ion heads overcharging it is. Course you put a hull point on yourself once a game, and can't hit fliers if necessary, or heavier tanks. Sky ray has more flexibility, and can help out in almost any situation for 10 points less. Do I hate HHs? No. But if I have one HH, its supported by two sky rays.

Granted, I'm normally playing 2k+ games, and I don't see as many marine players as most.

Again, sky ray is not a must-take. But for its RoF, flexibility, and alpha strike capabilities, I am a fan.

And yes, the initial post was more than a little hyperbolic.

[mod]Please don't post things like a weapon's exact Strength or AP; it's against the forum rules. I've edited your post accordingly. --Koval[/mod]
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 05:33:11 PM by Koval, Master Verispex »
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