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Author Topic: Whip coils or Paticle casters for Wraiths?  (Read 2597 times)

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Offline Galef

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Whip coils or Paticle casters for Wraiths?
« on: August 22, 2012, 12:16:16 PM »
I have been running 6 Wraiths led by a Destroyer Lord for a bit and what I am finding is that Whip coils are hard to use.

As I tend to put the Dlord up front for LOS! wound allocation, he is usually the first (and only) to contact an enemy unit.  With there no longer being a pile-in move from the enemy BEFORE combat, what tends to happen is the enemy piles in at there Initiative and then gets to strike.

It isn't until later turns of combat that I even get to use the Whip coils, and I usually destroy whatever unit I charge before that happens.

So my question is: With the extra points dropped from Whip coils, would giving the entire unit Particle casters be a good idea?

Preferred Enemy from the Dlord would allow them to re-roll half their failed to-hits and usually all failed to-wounds.  It would also give them something to overwatch with.
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Offline NecronCell2131

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Re: Whip coils or Paticle casters for Wraiths?
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2012, 06:59:20 PM »
 Sounds like your putting the lord to far forward or your charging something to soon.

 I would stay with Whip coils and just practice moving your unit to get optimum charge range.
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Offline CloverSquirrel

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Re: Whip coils or Paticle casters for Wraiths?
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2012, 07:28:40 PM »
Personally in my games I have stopped giving the Wraiths any Particle Casters, they really didn't tend to work very effectively in my games. I normally stick with giving them the whip coils then sticking a Dlord with them that has a warscythe, sempiternal weave and mindshackle scarabs.

To make sure the whip coils do as effectively as possible I tend to stick all the wraiths in front of the Dlord, as they have phase shifters they will always have the saves available to them and there is a good chance that they will make them. Then when I assault with them/get assaulted they will be in the front and the whip coils will take effect, plus as long as the Dlord is 2" of one of the Wraiths, then he will get his attacks and such as well.

The Mindshackle scarabs are there for when he manages to end up in base contact OR if a challenge is made. Overall, this has worked many times for me, with the Wraiths and Dlord becoming feared units in my games due to them charging one unit, then moving quickly on to the next, doing this repeatedly in each game.
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Offline Galef

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Re: Whip coils or Paticle casters for Wraiths?
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2012, 10:38:03 PM »
@ NecronCell2131:  I can't get my head around what you are saying.  If I can charge a unit, they can charge me, so it makes more sense to go for it.  If I move just out of charge range, they can just move back, taking me even more turns to get into CC.

@CloverSquirrel: Hmm, interesting.  I outift my DLord just like you do, but the few times my Wraiths have been in front, I lose 2-3 of them to enemy shooting.  When the DLord is in front, I can use LOS! to spread out the wounds, or have the DLord take 1.

When I do it this way, I don't lose a single model until CC.

I suppose I should clarify that I use at least 4 Night scythes in my list.  The only units that start on the board are 2 units of Scarabs (that can't be seen behind a Defence line), 1 unit of Spyders, 2 Annihilation Barges and the Wraith/DLord.

So my Wraiths are the biggest target on turn 1.
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Offline Idaho

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Re: Whip coils or Paticle casters for Wraiths?
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2012, 03:27:56 AM »
Are you and your opponent Piling in correctly? Surely your opponent has to move and engage your Wraiths if possible too, rather than all piling in on your Destroyer Lord?

Also, I've never had the problem getting into base contact with an enemy with at least some models, so what formation are your models in? It sounds almost like a conga line.

Offline Shadowbreed

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Re: Whip coils or Paticle casters for Wraiths?
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2012, 09:01:46 AM »
In 6th ed you don't pile in until your initiative step, so that's probably the reason for just the lord being in contact

Offline Idaho

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Re: Whip coils or Paticle casters for Wraiths?
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2012, 12:42:12 PM »
But the opponent has to pile in too, which was my point. The Space Marines are striking first and have to move 3" to engage opposing models in base contact as a priority, so as long as a single one of your models are engaged the opponent has to try and make contact with one of your unegaged models first. Once those initiatve 4 models make base contact with the Whip Coils they go to initative 1.

Won't always work, but it is another 3" reach.

Offline Galef

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Re: Whip coils or Paticle casters for Wraiths?
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2012, 05:55:20 PM »
I do usually get 1-2 Wraiths in base, but that only makes 1-2 models Int1.  At my LGS, we assume that once a model makes its Int pile-in, it then gets to attack.  Only models that were in base before their Int step are effected by the Whip Coils.

I get to try out the unit with all particle casters tonight.  I'll let you guys know if they make a difference.
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Offline NecronCell2131

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Re: Whip coils or Paticle casters for Wraiths?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2012, 07:14:58 PM »
I do usually get 1-2 Wraiths in base, but that only makes 1-2 models Int1.  At my LGS, we assume that once a model makes its Int pile-in, it then gets to attack.  Only models that were in base before their Int step are effected by the Whip Coils.

I get to try out the unit with all particle casters tonight.  I'll let you guys know if they make a difference.

 Ahh its to my understanding that once they make their Int step into base contact the stat-based effects of whip coils will immediate come into effect reducing their attacks to the Int1 step. Might be the reason whip coils arent working so great for you.
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Offline Galef

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Re: Whip coils or Paticle casters for Wraiths?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2012, 11:05:59 PM »
So I didn't really get to try them out.  We got to turn 2 of an objective mission and I had killed all of his Troops, plus First Blood.  So we just called it.

I am really unsure how Whip Coils work now with the Int pile-in.  I will have to read it a few times.
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Offline Idaho

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Re: Whip coils or Paticle casters for Wraiths?
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2012, 11:19:00 AM »
You move the models into base contact at their initiative if possible, if they are in base contact models are reduced to initiative 1 so can't strike until then even though they just moved.

Piling in has nothing to do with when you strike, it's a separate entity to getting models engaged and the combat up and running.

Anyway, doesn't sound like getting into base contact is much of an issue for you anyway, since you keep winning! ;)

Offline Galef

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Re: Whip coils or Paticle casters for Wraiths?
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2012, 03:57:48 PM »
After much comtemplation, I think at least 2 Whip coils would be best.

I still like the Particle casters, and with the D-lord I want most of the squad to have them.

Since I usually only get 1-2 Wraiths in base initially, most enemy models will have to pile-in to those.
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Offline Idaho

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Re: Whip coils or Paticle casters for Wraiths?
« Reply #12 on: September 8, 2012, 11:08:25 AM »
So the FAQ has arrived and changed things up a bit. Now Particle Casters are much more useful in comparison to Whip Coils, since models which Pile In to make base contact with Wraiths are not forced to strike at initiative 1.

Still find making a bunch of Genestealers striking last, even if not all of them. Reduces attacks on you. Just now a couple shots could be useful too, especially when attacking small but elite units where a couple extra shots might make a difference.

Offline NecronCell2131

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Re: Whip coils or Paticle casters for Wraiths?
« Reply #13 on: September 8, 2012, 01:06:52 PM »
 Ill still be running full whip coils even with the changes.
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Offline Partninja

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Re: Whip coils or Paticle casters for Wraiths?
« Reply #14 on: September 9, 2012, 06:38:29 PM »
In my tests, 3-4 whips in a squad of 6 is usually good enough. With the larger base and how models move around the table, 1-2 models were always left out and/or the extra whips were over kill.

Offline Idaho

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Re: Whip coils or Paticle casters for Wraiths?
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2012, 06:59:03 AM »
Yeah I run 3 in my unit of 5, which comes in nicely at just over 200pts (I'm not giving away the real cost, so naughty you for asking!) and they seem sufficient. After all, I'm not trying to take on Mobz of full strength Ork boyz, so the few models I'm in base contact usually represent elite targets where it makes a difference.

Besides been thinking, with variable charge ranges it's not always best to remove the closest model with shooting.

 


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