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Master Archon

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Re:Tau tactics
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2002, 11:59:46 PM »
Someone has been paying attention in school! Lol!  Yeah US Railguns have recoil just not a whole lot like you said Tobab

Offline DeadSeraphim

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Re:Tau tactics
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2002, 08:23:40 AM »
Ok, I'm not getting it.  How can projecting a spike by exposing it to a magnetic field cause recoil?

Offline Tobab816

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Re:Tau tactics
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2002, 10:46:26 AM »
DeadSeraphim.

Simple. Newtons laws of physics. For every force there is an equally large counterforce.

You see. When the projectile is launched the magnetic field projects a repulsing force on the projectile.
But since the gun projects a repulsing force on the projectile the projectile projects a repulsing force on the gun!

The easiest way to demostrate it is on a hockey rink.
Take another person standing opposite to you. None of you should angle your skates(because then you would be increasing friction which would ruin the experiment).
Try to push the other guy away(in this case...call him the bullet). What you did is exactly what the railgun does to it's projectile. It's pushing away the projectile.
Did you notice that you where traveling backwards?
That is the recoil. And in this case you are synonymous to the gun. In this case trying to move his mass will move your own mass in the opposing direction.
That is true wether you are using kinetic force(muscle, power, airpressure..what ever) or magnetic force to push.

Now...you might say..but the bullet is really really small compared to the gun.
But on the other hand the bullet is travelling WAY faster than the gun.
Deathball, the new game of bloody basketball, 40k style!

+++Excerpt from Last Chaos/Space marine game, commentator: Inquisitor Khalheed "The Purgator" Qhor, Ex-Deathball player+++

Chaos vs Space Marine grudgematch today ended 23-19 when Brother Grazieel decimated the chaos team with a heavy bolter.

Afterwards the Chaos Coach Zhuriel the Damned stated "If we weren't ideologically in favor of cheating we'd complain about this""
+++End of transmission+++

Offline DeadSeraphim

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Re:Tau tactics
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2002, 09:15:13 AM »
I figured with magnetism it's a question of relative mass.  Think of it more in terms of being on ice skates and pushing on a gnat.  Remember that the smallest railgun we've got fires a 18" spike but is the size of a railroad car.  Technically recoil exists, but not enough kinetic energy would be generated to overcome it's intertia (which would tend to make it stand still)...  Unlike a conventional projectile which creates recoil due to the explosion/gas venting, not to mention a much larger projectile relative to it's size.  But hey, not being a physicist I could easily be mistaken.

Offline Tobab816

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Re:Tau tactics
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2002, 10:20:57 AM »
You got it pretty much right.

But you have to remember that Gasventing etc contributes somewhat to the recoil as not all energy goes to accelerating the projectile(the energy transfer ratio is about 40% in a cannon while it's roughly 100% in a railgun). BUT It's still pretty massive as the calculated speed of a Railgun projectile will be 6000m/s or about twice as fast as the cannon. Since the energy for speed is exponential then recoil in a railgun will be twice as high per kilo projectile. And that is massive.

A pretty funny example that a friend of mine made to disprove the science in a science fiction book was this.

The alien had a railgun that fired projectiles at one tenth of the speed of light. Now he calculated that to have ANY effect other than just passing through a persons body without doing any real damage those projectiles would have to weigh about 1 tenth of a gram. Or about as large as a small grain of sand.

Now here is the funny part. If that alien(who in his example weighed 3 tons) tried to fire that weapon the recoil would have been enough to launch him into orbit and beyond.
Deathball, the new game of bloody basketball, 40k style!

+++Excerpt from Last Chaos/Space marine game, commentator: Inquisitor Khalheed "The Purgator" Qhor, Ex-Deathball player+++

Chaos vs Space Marine grudgematch today ended 23-19 when Brother Grazieel decimated the chaos team with a heavy bolter.

Afterwards the Chaos Coach Zhuriel the Damned stated "If we weren't ideologically in favor of cheating we'd complain about this""
+++End of transmission+++

Offline wellard

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Re:Tau tactics
« Reply #25 on: August 1, 2002, 07:44:21 AM »

Which vehicle? The baracuda? What are the rules?


there in cj 47 baracuda it the best flyer (well maybe the phienox is better)

wellard

ps are pathfinders troop or fast attack?

jim
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Master Archon

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Re:Tau tactics
« Reply #26 on: August 1, 2002, 10:10:56 AM »
Pathfinders are a Fast Attack Choice.  I have absolutely no idea what else you said. That's pretty funny tobab..."Now you shall feel my wraith!! Fire!! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahh hhhhhhhhh!!!"

Offline ValkorisZ

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Re:Tau tactics
« Reply #27 on: August 1, 2002, 11:02:07 PM »
You ppl are so silly. The Kroot are more useful then most of you say, and in practice can save your force quite a few times. And what is this amphetamine parrot I hear about taking Carbines?? The Tau Shas'la have on advantage over all other basic units in the game, Range, and one point of strengh. Don't give it up. Rail Guns are also pretty koo, and having 1-2 Hammerheads, as well as a unit or two of Broadsides never hurt anybody. The only enemies that have any wide effect on us Tau are BA's, cause they can assault, damn well. IG, pweez, our broasides are the meanest, most powerfull, make the nme wet his pantsable tank in the game (S:10, AP:1) I really don't want to go into this, but if you want a good site dedicated to this race, go to

groups.msn.com\totaltau
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They are held out to say: We are alone."--James Joyce

Offline Tobab816

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Re:Tau tactics
« Reply #28 on: August 1, 2002, 11:08:30 PM »
They have a range advantage yes? But what happens when the enemy comes close? The carbines are not only range 18" assult but also has a chance of pinning the enemy. With carbines you sacrifice some of your long range firepower to gain more staying power and mobility, thus preventing a bad roll from making you lose the battle.
Deathball, the new game of bloody basketball, 40k style!

+++Excerpt from Last Chaos/Space marine game, commentator: Inquisitor Khalheed "The Purgator" Qhor, Ex-Deathball player+++

Chaos vs Space Marine grudgematch today ended 23-19 when Brother Grazieel decimated the chaos team with a heavy bolter.

Afterwards the Chaos Coach Zhuriel the Damned stated "If we weren't ideologically in favor of cheating we'd complain about this""
+++End of transmission+++

Offline wellard

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Re:Tau tactics
« Reply #29 on: August 2, 2002, 02:23:51 AM »

Pathfinders are a Fast Attack Choice.  I have absolutely no idea what else you said. That's pretty funny tobab..."Now you shall feel my wraith!! Fire!! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahh hhhhhhhhh!!!"


sorry what i said was that the rules for the tau baracuda (the flyer avalible from forge world) are in citadel journel 47

hope this clears this up

wellard
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Offline ValkorisZ

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Re:Tau tactics
« Reply #30 on: August 2, 2002, 03:50:38 PM »
You got rapid fire. And any squad of FW'S worth anything will have 2 lil gun drones helping them out. The trick is to take out as much of his army as possible, then fall back. Using 2 FW squads, you can hope around, one staying, and unloading all, the other moves, and repeat. And in any case, no squad in the Tau army should EVER face an nme alone. The Firewarriors should have some kroot with them, or a ffew battle suits on the side deliverin g even more hell then their weaker brothers.
The spell of arms and voices: the white arms of roads, their promise of close embraces
and the black arms of tall ships that stand against the moon, their tale of distant nations.
They are held out to say: We are alone."--James Joyce

Offline Tobab816

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Re:Tau tactics
« Reply #31 on: August 3, 2002, 05:20:06 AM »
The point is that with Pulsecarbines...onc e they are within 12" away from you...then you run 6" backwards and fire again. Pulsecarbines PREVENT the static line trap which is THE cause for Tau losses.

ALSO, the extra 30" range is wasted in most cases. 'tis is a rare battle that the enemy deploys more than 24" away.
Deathball, the new game of bloody basketball, 40k style!

+++Excerpt from Last Chaos/Space marine game, commentator: Inquisitor Khalheed "The Purgator" Qhor, Ex-Deathball player+++

Chaos vs Space Marine grudgematch today ended 23-19 when Brother Grazieel decimated the chaos team with a heavy bolter.

Afterwards the Chaos Coach Zhuriel the Damned stated "If we weren't ideologically in favor of cheating we'd complain about this""
+++End of transmission+++

Offline ValkorisZ

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Re:Tau tactics
« Reply #32 on: August 3, 2002, 12:53:15 PM »
That must be a small map your using, having in the first turn the enemy within Bolter Range in one of the silliest part of WH40K, and I try to avoid it as much as possible.
The spell of arms and voices: the white arms of roads, their promise of close embraces
and the black arms of tall ships that stand against the moon, their tale of distant nations.
They are held out to say: We are alone."--James Joyce

Offline Tobab816

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Re:Tau tactics
« Reply #33 on: August 3, 2002, 01:25:52 PM »
We play on a 8'x6' board. In metric that is about 2.4 meters.

Still...mission deployment rules...
Deathball, the new game of bloody basketball, 40k style!

+++Excerpt from Last Chaos/Space marine game, commentator: Inquisitor Khalheed "The Purgator" Qhor, Ex-Deathball player+++

Chaos vs Space Marine grudgematch today ended 23-19 when Brother Grazieel decimated the chaos team with a heavy bolter.

Afterwards the Chaos Coach Zhuriel the Damned stated "If we weren't ideologically in favor of cheating we'd complain about this""
+++End of transmission+++

Offline xv15.

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Re:Tau tactics
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2002, 03:30:06 PM »

The complete Tactica Tau.

Commander

This guy can either be a shas'o or shas'el rank, both being able to take wargear and come with a crisis suit. I usually arm this guy for generic fighting, a missile pod for the vehicles, and a plasma rifle for the armoured infantry. A multi-tracker is normally my support system but I might take a target lock or a shield generator.
Keep this guy safe, because he costs a lot in points, more than an xv8 with weapons, so he will be a big victory point target for your enemy. Keep his life expectancy up by giving him a hard-wired drone controller and 2 shield or gun drones. Never give him the bodyguard, other than the fact that they can have wargear, they have no purpose that can otherwise be fulfilled by your commander joining a crisis team.

Seeing is how the ethereal caste are quite limited in variety, tactics are bleak, but they do exist. Always deploy them on the side you feel will be under the most pressure. Not only does he allow to re-roll all morale checks, the unit he joins is fearless. The side that you think will be taking more casualties should be the side you deploy him. Personally, I don't feel the honour blade is too good of a weapon, unless you're playing cityfight, which i will get into in a moment. The Ethereals initiative and relatively average weapon skill makes him a match for most standard troops aside from chaos and space marines.

Here is one tactic.

Give him a drone controller (hard-wired) and two gun or shield drones. That should buy you time considering he doesn't have a save. Join a unit so it will hold its ground.

A Cityfight tactic that works pretty well:

Give him the drones as stated above and an honour blade. Always have a unit of kroot behind the ethereal, I will explain why later. Now, because everyone in a cityfight gets their full attacks and special CC attacks, assault but put the drones in first, and take advantage of the drone special rules. (Anyone in B2B contact with a drone must direct all of his attacks against the drones. Anyone not in B2B contact at all but within 2" of a drone must direct his attacks against the drone) Now, all of the enemy's attacks have been directed at your drones and you're safe. Use your attacks and you might cause them to break. If not, use the voluntary fall back rules to fall back past the kroot behind you. And although the enemy may not advance, keep that tactic in mind for a regular game where the enemy can advance.

Aun'shi is pretty good. Actually, he is very good. Use in in CC when units come under pressure and the +1 to attacks and weapon skill is helpful when the enemy charge in.

For all of those tactics, they are just suggestions. Probably the most popular tactic is don't let him die, because the price of failure will cause your most valuable unit to fall back at the most crucial point in the battle. It's Murphy's Law, I didn't write it.

Tactica: Battlesuits

First, the Xv15

The XV15 Stealth Battlesuit is a great battlesuit, but only if used cautiously. Because of its low toughness and the stealth armour is practically useless if you want to get in range to use that burst cannon, I recommend taking gun or shield drone escorts. Their burst cannon should be assigned to mostly squishy troops like guardsmen, guardians or gaunts, but if a lightly armoured vehicle like a land speeder gets too close, don't rely on your fire warriors in the back. I like to feel particularly brave with my XV15s and infiltrate them up as far as possible. I use the Tau jetpack movement as best to my advantage by staying near terrain that blocks line of site so I can pop in and out of it in one turn, but not before loosing 18 burst cannon rounds.

They are best employed as a flank attack unit or a rear guard, or simply an advance unit that does some damage so that when your fire warriors begin to fire, the casualties already taken will add up to morale checks.

XV8

These crisis suits are your best unit available. I will tell you the pros and cons of their weapon fits.

Plasma Rifle: No overheat. Only rapid fire weapon available to crisis suits.

Lower powered, relatively short-ranged.

Best used against units with good saves, like space marines or necrons.

Missile Pod: Great range, and the fact that it is an assault weapon is nice. Decent strength.

Just 1 strength point short of being an instant death weapon for most armies. Ap of 4 makes it less formidable.

Burst Cannon: Great for squishy targets like guardsmen...etc. High rate of fire.

Low range and AP

Fusion Blaster: The best anti-vehicle weapon available to crisis suits. High strength the best AP

Only 12" and a fire rate of 1 combined with the crisis suits BS of 3 makes it unreliable and crucial to hit in the most critical of situations.

Flamer: No roll to hit, uses template.

Uses template which means you have to be in close proximity with the enemy.

Crisis Suits are always tooled to whatever army you're fighting, that makes it difficult to create tactics for them. So....I will give you a tactic on the most common of configurations.

Plasma rifle, missile pod, and a multi tracker.

This is best used against armies that have lots of good saves like necrons, space marines or eldar. (Even Tau) also the missile pod is great against medium vehicles. Jet pack in front of a screening unit in the movement phase, unload fire, jet pack pack in the assault phase.

The other half will be in another post cuz i got an error saying my post was too long
« Last Edit: November 19, 2002, 03:47:19 PM by xv15. »
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Offline xv15.

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Re:Tau tactics
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2002, 03:31:01 PM »
Fire Warriors

For a well balanced 10 points, you get a guardsmen not good in h2h that carries a potent weapon and carapace armour.

I usually take 10 or 12 fire warriors per team and normally 2 in 1,500 sized games.

I normally use them in a supporting fire role as you might see with space marine scouts with sniper rifles. I find a piece of cover they can sit in, put them there, and just simply shoot at the closest targets or the targets too far for your army.

Fire warriors are great for supporting fire role. Because if you read this you are either a Tau player yourself, or you are another army trying to steal tactics or figure out how your tau opponent keeps beating you, you would know that there are very few, if any, units venturing too far from your firing line. E.g. battlesuits (with the full intention of moving back in the assault phase) kroot, and stealthsuits. I find that assigning my fire warriors to all kinds of infantry and light vehicles is where they are most effective. Although, note this, only assign units of 12 to light vehicle duties, or you simply won't get enough dice rolls to matter.

Kroot

The best way to use your kroot is one of 3 ways.



1) Because they're so cheap, you can use them to screen battlesuits so they can't be shot at.



2)This more or less is better than #1 because it combines that purpose into what I am about to describe. Get ahead with the infiltrators rule and wait for an ambush possibility.



3) Shoot like the Tau! The kroot rifle's Ap of 6 is the only thing that stops it from being the same as a bolter, also the bs3 brings you down also, but hey, for 7 points? who's complaining?



Ok, now into detail.



1) screening is a pretty effective tactic, especially for the battlesuits, they are your only medium weapons (S6 to 8) carriers, although I have seen many a pulse rifle stop a rhino and raider, I have also seen drones take down a leman russ! Anyway, in case you've been hiding under a stone, battlesuits are powerful and pricy. They need to be protected, especially when fighting against space marines (they have access to more lascannons and missile launchers (S8+)(instant death) than any other army. So what out, and if you buy a Shaper, although they are pricy and along with the 6+ upgrade, the leadership bonus should make them last longer when the casualties start to pile up.



2)This is my favourite, kroot look so good when assaulting. They're only matched in looks by the old hormagaunts. Any, don't take a krootox, but I recommend hounds because you'll need that initiative 4 and 2 attacks. I said don't take a krootox because it denies you the infiltrate ability which is so valuable. If kroot are caught in the open for even 1 turn, even lasguns take their toll.



Get in a spot where most line of site is blocked, and any enemy troops can be picked off if your opponent makes a mistake by an inch or so. Remember, this tactic is only good against armies with some troops either with weak armour, or poor assault ability that you know will be coming to you. (with tau, everyone has to come to you) When the enemy rushes up, jump out, don't shoot (you want the extra attack in cc so you can advance and try to wipe them out) and charge into h2h. You have to be sure of the distances because at that range, the kroot will be shot up so badly that they simply will evaporate in a storm of dice. But if you do get in to h2h, at least some lines of site will be blocked, so even if they do get grinded into the ground, their role is fulfilled more or less.



3) Sit and shoot. Here i recommend taking a shaper and the upgrade and as many krootoxen as your points allow. These guys will perform the roll of infantry support. The kroot gun is roughly the equivalent to a missile pod or an autocannon. And the kroot rifle will perform equally well when the enemy close in. Now, if the enemy starts to get close, work your way forward. The krootox is great in an assault, and unless the enemy is S6 (Imperial guard guys with powerfists, carnifex) then your toughness of 5 should save you from any major damage, although assault the guardsmen, the taller than average grass that they are, will fall easy prey, and i do not recommend assaulting a carnifex, that's the plasma rilfes job.



In conclusion, I just want to say that kroot can be so effective if employed properly, i once defeated a ten man marine assault squad! i had a 20 man kroot unit with a shaper and that added up to 62 S4 attacks!! Nothing, not even marines can take that kind of a beating.

On to gun/shield drones.

Because Games Workshop only allows you to get shield drones with pathfinder shas'ui and stealth team leaders, you probably won't have more than 1-4 in your army. So numbers are rare, if that. I always assign them to my shas'o or ethereal, especially the ethereal, he needs to have the MOST survivability (ehem, price of failure, ehem). Shield drones are just something to take hits the armour piercing hits for you. I once had a battle (it was a modified version of the Last Stand mission. CDN/US white dwarf 267) where not until after three turns of space marine shooting, did I take an actual Tau casualty. Before then, only my screening kroot and gun/shield drones had been doing all of the dying. So as you see, they can be effective with the right layout.

Gun drones. (independent)

These guys I only ever take when there is the deep strike rule allowed. the best tactic for them is simple.

A) Deep Strike behind enemy lines and pin an important squad. e.g. a heavy weapons squad.

B) Deep Strike behind a vehicle and blow its brains out with grenades and plasma pulses.
(This does work. I have sent 3 out of 4 Leman russ battle tanks to the great machine god in the sky this way)

BS2 isn't great, in fact, it sucks, but the twin-linked factor makes it better and i usually hit with 3-5 of 8 shots. O, I forgot to say, always take a unit of 8, only in a unit of 8 will they be able to take casualties and still be a thorn in the enemy's side. Once you are reduced to below 4, consider you unit gone. Immediately when a morale check needs to be taken. Leadership 3 (-1 for being below starting strength (8)) will not hold up at all.

Pathfinders:

Find a good spot and stay there. I don't even see why they need a devilfish aside from the forward scout rule they are a waste of points. They only purpose they fulfill is a seeker missile rack. Always take 4, it is better to have more than not enough, but having the right amount is great too, for me, the more guns, the right amount.

I normally just find a good sniping position and let loose. In that same modified last stand mission. My pathfinders were responsible for 2 enemy dreadnaught kills, and 1 rhino and 7 marine kills before they were brutally slaughtered. There points was matched and i was happy. Their pulse carbines aren't too great but use them when you have to relocate, you might even pin the enemy down.

Devilfish.

This guy, is a big guy, and a pricy one, it is the most expensive sole transport available (I say sole because some other transports have other roles too, like the land raider). For 80 points. I rarely find It meet its own value, but the firepower it attracts is enough to save its own point value. I normally tool it up to the max. Multi-Tracker, Targeting Array, Decoy Launchers, Seeker Missiles (4), and it all comes to a whopping 140 points! Then, it has to survive to be able to earn its value throughout the game. The burst cannon isn't too great, but with the targeting array, it can be much better. With a targeting array, it will hit more, which means more wounds, which means more kills. I have one devilfish, which i dubbed the 'blessed fish' because in one game it killed more than 10 chaos space marines.

Of course, the above kills were of pure dice roll, but most of those good or bad rolls balance themselves out, and the game is 85% tactics and strategy. The other 15% is your opponent's tactics/strategy and dice rolls.

But your little warriors can be as effective as battlesuits if you wish for them. I want to leave you with this comment from my friend when he fell just out of assault range when one of his squads came up close. "Never, NEVER go into rapid fire range of pulse rifles, NEVER"

His squad was annihilated.

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Offline xv15.

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Re:Tau tactics
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2002, 03:31:16 PM »
XV88

These guys are a bit pricy in my opinion but i always leave them to be second priority and only use them against heavily mechanized armies. The railgun is great, but the gunners bs of 3 isn't what i refer to as reliable, i rarely take broadsides unless i buy some markerlights. The SMS is best once again, against squishy targets, and its no LOS is great. But personally, I like the versatility of the TL Plasma Rifles. If you put it in cover along with drones, it is one of the hardest units to get out of cover because it will always get its 2+ save. Combined with drones this is a very difficult unit to get at, not to mention the screening kroot that should be there. Need I say More?

Hammerhead

This is my favourite Tau unit. My hammerhead has so many kills to his name, be it by its own doing or by seeker missiles that were launched from it. This tank is best complimented by a multi-tracker, a decoy launcher, and a disruption pod. The multi tracker i always take because what you do, if you don't want to move out of your position, move 3" forward, and 3" backwards, so you are still in your starting position, but you moved 6", so glancing hits only because you're a skimmer, and you still can fire all of your weapons, also, now that you have glancing hits only, any immobilized result will have to be re-rolled because of the decoy launchers. The disruption pod is pretty good because, hey, you're tau, you will be hugging the table edge, and therefore be as far away from the enemy as possible, so any weapons that do manage to get past your screening units, and they are just in range, what a waste of a shot, and your shiny tank still lives.

« Last Edit: November 19, 2002, 03:47:05 PM by xv15. »
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