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The Armies of 40k => Necrons => Topic started by: Dread on April 25, 2017, 08:34:03 PM

Title: well, well well...
Post by: Dread on April 25, 2017, 08:34:03 PM
I feel bad that this section of our beloved site has some many tombs in it. Hopefully this will change in the near future. Hopefully the new rules will start a spark.

I do realize that a reason for this is that the necrons have become such a straight forward army that discussion went to the way side. I hope this will change with a new edition.

Necrons are my biggest army next to my Eldar and I for one am going to start using them again. No more formations just straight CAD lists with the old and new. Let's shake the dust off and start resurrecting the mighty machines for battle, whether it's Armageddon, small games or large total table battles.

Not much of a battle cry but after the new ed comes I plan on doing some serious comparisons on each unit as well as bat reps for this mighty race. How about ya'll?
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Saim-Dann on April 25, 2017, 09:09:27 PM
Necrons are a tough arm. Haven't played against them often enough to get a handle on them yet. Love a challenge... Pointy ears forever!!
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Killersquid on April 25, 2017, 09:34:58 PM
Played against Necrons a lot. Don't play them myself, but I used to back in 4th/5th. Neat army, very annoyingly hard to kill.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: gollee on April 25, 2017, 09:44:57 PM
Advice for those who haven't played against Necrons used to their fullest extent. If you see a squad of Lychguard with shields, it WILL have Orikan. Which means it will not die, period. It is slow, with no ranged attacks, but they have toughness that terminators wished they had. The thing is one of the nastiest deathstars out there; I should know, it is great fun to take to tournaments if you are feeling cruel.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Killersquid on April 25, 2017, 10:10:25 PM
Advice for those who haven't played against Necrons used to their fullest extent. If you see a squad of Lychguard with shields, it WILL have Orikan. Which means it will not die, period. It is slow, with no ranged attacks, but they have toughness that terminators wished they had. The thing is one of the nastiest deathstars out there; I should know, it is great fun to take to tournaments if you are feeling cruel.

Yeah, the best way to deal with such a unit is to avoid it, or tie it up with something else which is hard to kill. Worst thing to do is feed it units piecemeal. I've made that mistake.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Dread on April 25, 2017, 10:31:35 PM
I'm guilty of using the decurion detachment as well as facing it. It's a legal cheat but makes survivability for them really good, hard to kill. My only success against them has been my jetbikes army. All of my others failed. Now we'll see what the new rules do to them.

So last week I got the necron warrior ghost ark box set. Finally sat down and opened it tonight and low and behold, 32 mm bases. But I said nay nay and dug out the ole 25's, thank goodness I have so many extras of those. I have 4 squads of 16 warriors, no way I'm putting the new on bigger bases.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Partninja on May 2, 2017, 06:58:35 PM
Necrons are my 3rd army. I'm hoping they keep some semblance of their durability without being TOO durable like the decurion. I'd like to see monoliths come back to the table, and C'tan be more reliable/usable. As long as my 20 Praetorians with rods are still just as good, I'll be happy.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: magenb on May 3, 2017, 12:11:40 AM
Yeah Necron's are my biggest non-Eldar army, got to have the old enemy to bash around every now and then ;)

I think Nercon's just went through a massively OP phase, followed by a nerf bat, followed by Decurion in a really short period of time. Then it got lost in the sea of new models. I am interested to see how the new rule set will affect them given there is no AV values anymore.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Cavalier on May 3, 2017, 07:10:27 AM
Most of my losses in this edition have been to Necrons. I have a ton of respect for the army. As annoying as they are in this edition... it really reinforces how scary it must be to face a Necron army. I hope they remain just as nasty in the new edition.

If it weren't for the Traitor Legions book I would have built a Necron army.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Dread on May 3, 2017, 02:51:11 PM
Shame on you Cav for not getting the Necrons...but seriously, they are my favorite next to my Eldar. I'm really hoping they don't ruin our rules as bad as AoS. I will do what I said either way and do write ups for them reguardless.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Saim-Dann on May 3, 2017, 10:01:35 PM
Also hope they don't nerf the Necrons. As I've said, haven't beaten them yet. Would feel ripped off if my first victory over them was because they all decided to wear skirts. My opponent wouldn't let me hear the end of it either.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Dread on May 4, 2017, 12:57:54 AM
Believe me I understand that. I might not win with my tinman all the time but they put up a heck of a fight. Hardest army I went against was Tau, just because of range issues. I've held my own against most others. Dunno against any eldar faction because I'm the only player around here with them. Orks were tough too but only because the player was trying to kill kill instead of going after objectives.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Cavalier on May 4, 2017, 08:03:35 AM
@Dread- Hahahah. Well I've still got the models. 3 Wraiths, a Spider, a Lord and a unit of Warriors. After my World Eaters and Dark Angels are finished... I'll definitley work them up to a playable allied faction for sure.

Also don't worry bud, the new 40k is gonna be awesome. I'm convinced of it... all my favorite players are in love with post-generals handbook AoS (Frankie and Reece from Frontline, Lawrence from Tabletop Tactics) I'm sure its gonna make 40k even better... and most importantly faster for us creaky old veterans  ;D
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Dread on May 4, 2017, 02:15:03 PM
Thanks bud. I hope so. AOS got to childish for us so we opted out of it. As long as the don't have a rule where you pat your head and rub your belly whist hoping on one leg and making goo goo sounds to cause damage to units, I'll be happy. Sense not dumbing will be fine.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: magenb on May 4, 2017, 09:13:16 PM
Also hope they don't nerf the Necrons.

The new rule set will mean they are nerfed in some aspects, every army will be hit by that bat in some way, and like with every other new edition, armies will play differently in the new rule set. This time, its practically wipe the slate clean and start over again.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Dread on May 5, 2017, 01:57:17 AM
Your probably right on the nose Magenb. AOS did that. We saw all free rules, then new armies, not free rules but the new are more powerful. Hence my worries over the new. I haven't condemned it yet, YET my be to strong a word.

Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Partninja on May 31, 2017, 06:06:13 PM
With the Necron teaser out, I'm pretty satisfied. It seems my army will keep its durability. I like that this durability will rely on the Crypteks for the bonus to protocols. Gauss weapons are really good too. I'm sad the Monolith took a BS hit, but it does get to fire all of the guns on the move now (with no penalty). Hopefully this BS reduction doesn't carry over to the infantry (I could see warriors possibly).
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Dread on May 31, 2017, 06:51:12 PM
I think the standard bs on all troops is 3 now. range bonus will fix that.

Got my glue and finishing up some warriors and an ark. Hopefully be ready for opening night
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Kaiju Senso on June 2, 2017, 08:58:00 AM
I'm looking forward to the revamp. It's been ages since I've been any good with Necrons on the table. 5th edition with 3rd edition codex is where my army lists have shined but I've struggled to figure out the new stuff. This is most likely due to my own forced handicaps in list design.

Here's to a new awakening, cheers.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Dread on June 5, 2017, 12:28:52 AM
I have been reading the preview books and have come to the conclusion that the Necrons didn't really take a hit from the changes like I thought they would. Resurrection protocol is different but I like it. Being able to take crypteks again and make them worth it. Also the death ray can now be used on ground targets. The doom ark has two rates of fire that has potential whether it moves or not. Loosing gauss special rules not a big deal since they can still wound vehicles. The only kinda need is scarab but can deal with that. So much is just re-worded but practically the same as before.

Far as I can tell, a 3000 pt army will be about the equivalent of a 1850-2000 pt in 7th. Streamlined, eh, rules really look like after we get used to them should make games faster. Will no more on the 17th.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: magenb on June 7, 2017, 11:35:25 PM
I have been reading the preview books and have come to the conclusion that the Necrons didn't really take a hit from the changes like I thought they would. Resurrection protocol is different but I like it. Being able to take crypteks again and make them worth it. Also the death ray can now be used on ground targets. The doom ark has two rates of fire that has potential whether it moves or not. Loosing gauss special rules not a big deal since they can still wound vehicles. The only kinda need is scarab but can deal with that. So much is just re-worded but practically the same as before.

Hey Dread how are you (or any one else) looking to remove LoW/Tanks from your enemy now? I'm looking through the list and I'm not seeing that many things that deal multiple Damage points, the C'tan look like fair good (but point expensive) options. I can see a lot of Necron weapons more geared towards anti-infantry.


I also noticed Transcendent C'tan has a separate entry now, kind of wonder if they are going to bring out a new model or sell it separately to the Vault now.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Partninja on June 8, 2017, 06:06:22 PM
The change vehicles/Gauss has me concerned in this regard as well. My army is a phalanx of infantry on foot. I relied on lots of Gauss glances to take down vehicles. I really don't want to add in heavy destroyers or monsters. I was using Triarch Stalkers, but 1-2 of them won't get much work done in 8th edition.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Killersquid on June 8, 2017, 06:11:44 PM
The change vehicles/Gauss has me concerned in this regard as well. My army is a phalanx of infantry on foot. I relied on lots of Gauss glances to take down vehicles. I really don't want to add in heavy destroyers or monsters. I was using Triarch Stalkers, but 1-2 of them won't get much work done in 8th edition.

Gauss will still work at taking down vehicles, while being extra threatening to infantry. A block of rapid-firing necron warriors, with Lord/Overlord buffs will do severe damage to any vehicle they get near, just like they ought to, but now you'll more often be wounding on 5's and not 6's.

I think Necrons in 8th built around two 20 man blocks of warriors supported by other units and hero's to buff them will be quite formidable. especially now that loosing combat doesn't mean you have to pick up the whole unit.

Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Dread on June 8, 2017, 08:12:20 PM
Like KS said, warriors and guass work pretty much the same. T8 vs str 4=6+. So other vehicles with lower T wound a lot easier for us now. Immortals do better against T8. Again we still have some of the best troops in the game with single all around weapons not a big Mish mash of specials and heavies.

I also believe that vehicles will be left home more now with the points hike making it more of an infantry game. Either way our army can deal it out as well as we can take it.

Can you believe at the beginning of your turn you get to add models back, I mean the enemy thinking they're winning and thump, more bodies reappear. That look on their faces will be priceless.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: magenb on June 8, 2017, 11:15:40 PM
Can you believe at the beginning of your turn you get to add models back, I mean the enemy thinking they're winning and thump, more bodies reappear. That look on their faces will be priceless.

The Ghost ark is sounding amazing for this. Embark units auto resupply, and those very close get another RP roll..

I'm thinking a couple of cheap cryteks in the HQ slots (maybe swap one for Illuminor) as they buff RP rolls.

2 Full immortal telsa squads,
1 Full Necron Warrors,
Ghost Ark
5 man Deathmark to try and pick on Characters.
2 Annihilation Barges.

Should be around 1400 points

Wouldn't mind trying a C'tan out, as 2 of their powers look badass, each one has a specific use case. Both can smash things in CC.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Killersquid on June 9, 2017, 01:00:13 AM
I would also recommend Tomb Spyders with gloom prisms, as they are the only thing you have to deny the witch, and unlike in previous editions, can actually do something.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Dread on June 12, 2017, 11:05:07 PM
I like the list Magenb, I will keep that in mind for later games.

KS, I really like the spiders and agree well finally have a better use for them then just bolstering scarabs.

Now it's time to get serious for Friday night at midnight. Ive been told that we will be playing 100 power points games. So I need to get something put together. Any suggestions? My first idea is...

Imotek
2 crypteks
10 warriors
2x warriors 20 each
2 immortals 10 each blasters
Doom ark
Ghost ark
Doom scyth

I believe that is right at 100 pp
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: magenb on June 13, 2017, 02:52:44 AM
I like the list Magenb, I will keep that in mind for later games.

KS, I really like the spiders and agree well finally have a better use for them then just bolstering scarabs.

Now it's time to get serious for Friday night at midnight. Ive been told that we will be playing 100 power points games. So I need to get something put together. Any suggestions? My first idea is...

Imotek
2 crypteks
10 warriors
2x warriors 20 each
2 immortals 10 each blasters
Doom ark
Ghost ark
Doom scyth

I believe that is right at 100 pp

Pop the Immortal in the Ghost ark to get them into rapid fire range... so.. soo good..

Will be interesting to see how the doom ark goes though.

If any one has the tomb blades, really interested to hear how they go in games now too.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Dread on June 13, 2017, 11:02:44 PM
Putting immortals in the ark would be great but according to rules only warriors can ride, bummer.

Also think I'm going to change out doom ark for tomb blades and night scyth, it can move immortals :).
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: magenb on June 14, 2017, 03:45:16 AM
hmm let me see if I get this right...

Imotekh can be in the ghost ark.
Ghost ark, goes full advance,
Obyron who is hanging back ghostwalks him and his buddies to within x inches of.. well it would the ghost ark?
could slingshot immortals into range or  CC unit.
rather expensive thing to do considering it is over 500 points in 3 models.

Doesn't seem to break the transport rule, as the model in the transport is not doing anything and is not being affected by it.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Dread on June 14, 2017, 03:55:46 AM
Oh, that's a good Idea too. Right now I'm only worryied about power points, so that's the cost I'm looking at right now. Also unfortunately obyron and his buddy are the only 2 characters I don't have.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: magenb on June 15, 2017, 07:35:10 AM
so are people going to try out the Melee units? Lychguard and Praetorians look beastly. Do you need to take a Night Scythe to get the slower Melee unit in range?


Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Dread on June 17, 2017, 03:17:15 AM
So I got my xenos book 1, rule book and the nurgle part of the new box. Unfortunately it was crowded and I was to tired to play tonight. However we poured thru the rule book and I have to say, I like it, a lot. The power point play and missions for it are on par for our group. I hope to get to report next weekend on a game, if it's in the cards for me. This type of play has really given me some peace as putting together 50 or 75 or 100 point games is a breeze, 10-15 minutes and game on. I hope that other players , such as myself, who started looking at the new as doom and gloom see this new edition as a nice fresh breath. I think they got it right.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Partninja on July 17, 2017, 05:05:28 PM
So after getting several games in:

Mass Gauss is NOT reliable at all for taking out vehicles. Even with the AP value and being buffed to 2+ BS, it takes a lot of shots to pop even a Rhino. AT is best left for our very high costed Heavy Destroyers. They seem to be the best. Barges and the like just don't put out enough shots, with an AP value to be really worth it. Doomsday is a lot of points for not a lot of shots as well.

Both C'tan shards are really good and useful for most any army. Specially now that they can "hide" amongst your army.

Flayed ones, while quite a bit more expensive, are pretty good. I've liked taking three groups of five. Lots of attacks with rerolls.

Lychguard and Praetorians are so prohibitively expensive now I find it hard to work them into lists.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: magenb on July 17, 2017, 06:05:30 PM
Mass Gauss is NOT reliable at all for taking out vehicles. Even with the AP value and being buffed to 2+ BS, it takes a lot of shots to pop even a Rhino. AT is best left for our very high costed Heavy Destroyers. They seem to be the best. Barges and the like just don't put out enough shots, with an AP value to be really worth it. Doomsday is a lot of points for not a lot of shots as well.

Lychguard and Praetorians are so prohibitively expensive now I find it hard to work them into lists.

Use the Immortal's Gauss to take out Rhino's. They are the same Strength and AP as Dark Reapers, while less damage they are cheaper than a reaper :)


Lychguard are really expensive, but smash face in CC now and they are usually good for taking out things of a similar point cost. Because of that you have to take some sort of transport or they get shot at too much.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Partninja on July 23, 2017, 04:08:57 PM
I think you need to double check your Index. They are NOT the same as a reaper launcher (+1AP, +1 damage, more range) and have the same effectiveness vs T7 as the flayer. Warriors would be better as you can take more warriors (and flayers) for less points. Even still, it takes too much shooting and luck to put down a single rhino-like transport. This is worsened as there should usually be others moving up on you (specially at the most effective range of Necron rapid fire).

UPDATE: With the recent bout of FAQs Necrons have gotten two buffs! Monoliths are more accurate, and there is actually a difference between Void and Phase now.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: magenb on July 23, 2017, 06:10:23 PM
I think you need to double check your Index. They are NOT the same as a reaper launcher (+1AP, +1 damage, more range) and have the same effectiveness vs T7 as the flayer.

Immortal's with Gauss Blasters have the same S and AP as Reapers, they still do less damage, but you are able to take alot more of them :)
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Partninja on July 23, 2017, 06:27:11 PM
So we're just going to ignore the reapers other fire mode that is better against vehicles then? Sorry, same S in one fire mode but not always. Not the same AP or damage (I'm not sure where you're looking). Either way, your comparison is way off.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Killersquid on July 23, 2017, 10:44:22 PM
Yeah. S5 vs s4 against t6-7 is exactly the same. Might as well take warriors and get the extra bodies.

I've played against doomsday arcs a few times now. They are really good gunboats. Great range to sit back and nuke tanks, and when things get heated they can blast folks with the guards array. They are also really really hard to kill.

I found my opponents heavy destroys got off only one shot before I killed them, but the doomsday arcs I  just couldn't deal with.

The nightbringer is also phenomenal all around.

Tesla is also still good at dishing out the wounds. I wouldn't be surprised to see anniliation barges out again.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Partninja on July 23, 2017, 11:22:12 PM
I've had the opposite results with the Doomsday.

It doesn't put out a reliable number of AT shots for the points and there are better AI units we can take if you're trying to bump the shots to D6. MSU is also going to be pretty common with MEQ armies so getting a D6 will be rarer.

Barges I've found are only strictly OK against very weak vehicles with T5-6 and/or have 4++ saves (Harlies) or worse. The lack of AP and unreliable extra hits make them pretty bleh so far.

Vehicles are quite resilient though. I give them that.

I'm struggling with decent AT options for my Necrons in general. I'm not really a fan of destroyers and the Heavy Destroyers are quite a bit of points now.

Both C'tan shards are amazing though. The Nightbringer has always been very strong and scary in all the games people have used them. The Deceiver also gives some interesting options with his D3 redeploy (He also not bad in CC either).

Monoliths have also been very strong. Even better now with the ballistic skill buff.

Flayed ones are also really excellent assault support or back line harassment units. Lots of attacks, with wound rerolls makes then quite the threat.

Praetorians and Lychguard cost so many points it's hard to justify using them at 1500pts.

We've also found that the new "core meta" is large squads of warriors with Cryptek and Overlords. The named ones also give a lot of powerful enhancements. 20 warriors, rapid firing at BS 2+, and then getting +1 attack is really really strong.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: magenb on July 24, 2017, 12:16:58 AM
So we're just going to ignore the reapers other fire mode that is better against vehicles then? Sorry, same S in one fire mode but not always. Not the same AP or damage (I'm not sure where you're looking). Either way, your comparison is way off.

Reaper low Strength fire mode is the same strength as the Immortal and the same AP, yes less damage, but you get 2 for the price of one Reaper ;)

It's not a great option but its one of the better all round options Necron have. Lychguard is still one of the cheapest ways to remove a tank in 1 round though, even when you add the cost of the transport, but once youve smashed 1 tank the othercan jsut avoid them, so that leaves C'tan's which are going to be a fire magnet.

Basically GW wants you to Horde it up. Fantastic against infantry, but umm yeah, not so great against tank swarms. Hopefully GW balances that out a bit with the codex... or prevents tank swarms.. or both..

Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Dread on July 24, 2017, 12:57:15 AM
I understand what your trying to say. As far as the transport, which one are you using? I'm gonna try and get my first game of 8th in this coming weekend so this info will help me decide what I'm going to take.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: magenb on July 26, 2017, 07:33:48 PM
I found Nightscythes work well as a transport, its hard to hit and its weapons suck, so its threat level really depends on whats in reserves. Dropping Gauss blaster Immortal's into rapid fire range naaaaasty. If you are really lucky you can get them to flank cover your opponent is hiding in.

They also can work to deliver Lychguard, gret for taking out pairs of tank sitting next to each other.

I did find that I had to run them either in pairs or teamed with a Monolyth. If you have an expensive unit like Lychguard with a single Nightscyth, it becomes an uber threat.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Dread on July 26, 2017, 11:49:44 PM
Very nice. Night scythe is what I have in my list. Now I'll have to do a little creativeness to get lych guard in. Thanks
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: magenb on July 27, 2017, 04:28:11 AM
if you are up against Chaos, watch out, they have a psyker spell that does D6 mortal wounds to vehicles...
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Saim-Dann on July 27, 2017, 06:53:41 AM
oooooooooooh my!
Thank you Magenb. That was good advice, mate.
Title: Re: well, well well...
Post by: Partninja on July 27, 2017, 08:34:05 AM
Using a Deceiver allows you to redeploy that nightscythe. You can quite easily get turn one charges this way.