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The Armies of 40k => Tyranids => Topic started by: Travellar on January 11, 2014, 02:05:41 AM

Title: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Travellar on January 11, 2014, 02:05:41 AM
Really, this codex to me looks like the last one with some tweaking of some of the points values.  We lost about as much as we gained, and t least now we have models available for everything in the codex.

Things I've noticed:
Carnifexes
     significantly cheaper.  I felt they should've been cheaper before, but the drop in points is twice what I'd guessed it would be.

Hive Guard:
     Simplified the Impaler cannons.  No more arguing with our opponents whether this is cover the model is in, or whether the cannon ignores cover from something else.  Also, they get a second gun option.

Zoanthropes:
     The living brains grown with the specific purpose of manifesting psychic powers no longer get shut down on a 4+ from so many enemy psychers. 

Boneswords:
     Like the Impaler cannons, much more streamlined in applying their effects.

Biovores:
     uh, probrably still fun, but wow did they get toned back.

Psychic Powers:
     No more Blinkathropes, no more T9 Hive Tyrants juiced up on biomancy.  We get one discipline and that's it.  On the upside, they're all good powers, and the Zoanys are guarunteed, but we lost all psychic flexibility.

Mysetic Spores:
     gone.  just gone.

Tactics:
So much of this codex reflects a cut and paste of the last one, I don't think my tactics will change much.  Biovores are no longer such an extrodinarily good buy against massed infantry, but carnifexes are no longer overpriced.  Granted, we have been robbed of the ability to occasionally drop a brood of devilguants in the enemy backfield, so that's one thing I can no longer do.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: GaleRazorwind on January 11, 2014, 03:10:42 AM
What do you mean Biovores took a hit? They got even better! They are cheaper, and Spore mines are still the same barrage as the 5th ed codex, but now if the first template misses, we get D3 spore mines in addition to still rolling the other two templates. And while that cluster moves slow, we control it and can charge with it and get a blast with bonus strength per additional mine.

and LOL GW is so bad at writing rules. Notice that the wording of the Pyrovore's explode rule says that every unit takes hits for ever model in d6 of the Pyrovore. Not every unit in 6", every unit! Assuming this will be FAQed right away, but use it while you can. I.e. cram as many gants as possible around that Pyrovore and hope they blap it and boom, every single unit on the table takes a gigantic number of hits.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Killing Time on January 11, 2014, 12:43:01 PM
Assuming this will be FAQed right away, but use it while you can.

Or don't, and keep your friends.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Halollet on January 11, 2014, 02:40:17 PM
I'm itchin to read my codex, but it won't be delivered until monday.  :(

I'm wondering on people's impression of the Haruspex.  Is it infantry killer, a MC eater, or is it just an all around death machine?  Or does it suck?
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Galef on January 11, 2014, 04:05:57 PM
I don't think the Haruspex is bad, but it doesn't have anything special that makes it worth the valuable Elite slot.

Honesty, Carnifex can do what it does, but has more options and can be taking in units.

But I suppose if you have an open Elite slot (good luck with that) than a Harupex would be a decent addition.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Melbosha on January 11, 2014, 10:14:34 PM
Not only is the Mycetic spore is gone but so is Doom of Malan'tai  :-[ , The Parasite of Mortrex, and Ymgarl's :-[.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Galef on January 11, 2014, 10:52:00 PM
Not only is the Mycetic spore is gone but so is Doom of Malan'tai  :-[ , The Parasite of Mortrex, and Ymgarl's :-[.

Every unit that GW did not have a model for is gone. Some say this has something to do with the Chapter House fiasco over Tervigons after the 5th ed. codex came out.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Teecheedeedee on January 12, 2014, 06:31:20 AM
Honestly after reading the new codex, I am completely appalled. I know I will be accused of being melodramatic and negative, but this is almost certainly the weakest 6th edition release.

It really feels like most of the codex is a cut and paste from the previous one, which itself was woeful. Some units that badly needed fixes (pyrovores, tyrannofexes) didn't get them at all. The loss of mycetic spores is absolutely huge. It means that units like zoanthropes now have to move slowly across the board.

There seem to be many small changes that just really irk me, like the swarmlord losing the ability to make enemies reroll invulnerable saves, which is what made it deadly in close combat. Or the reduction in hiveguard ballistic skill. Or the total watering down of boneswords.

It ultimately feels like they took the 5th edition codex, which was already one of the weakest in the game, and in many areas made it even worse. There are some new aspects that seem nice, like crones, but I am in utter disbelief. The artifacts are fairly silly and overpriced.

To be honest I am really glad I no longer play tyranids, because I would be aghast.

Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Locarno on January 12, 2014, 10:12:39 AM
Hmm. Looks interesting.

Good:
Lictors now infiltrate if you want them to. This is awesome as they might actually get some use out if the pheromone trail.

Paired melee bio weapons (whatever they are) grant a bonus attack. And swarm has two pairs stopping disarming strike related cheese with the avatar...

I need to sit down and update the massive swarm of grunts army list. The fact that I have many car nice on stand by makes me happy, as does the change to adrenal glands. Being able to give a carnifex fleet and still cost massively less than it did previously means they might actually achieve something rather than draw fire off the tervigon for a turn.

Wish catalyst had been the primaris power, though....
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Gunner_Sabot_Tank on January 12, 2014, 01:26:38 PM
Yeah, two sets of CC bio morphs now grant an extra attack, but in many cases they dropped a unit's attacks by 1 to offset this. Also, our CC weapons no longer stack abilities. We now have to choose which weapon we wanna use that turn just like all our food, errr I mean opponents.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Locarno on January 12, 2014, 04:05:16 PM
I'm still spotting details, but one thing worth noting -didn't see it immediately - is that in addition to hq units, the trygon prime also has access to bio artefacts. A potential 2+ save in combat on something that lethal is not to be taken lightly.

First thoughts on the srtefacts:
Maw claws -best for winged tyrant or trygon prime. As with any "once you kill something in combat", wants to be on something which will be in combat quickly. Since preferred enemy rolls over to shooting, a trygon's bioelectric shock will be nasty once this is online.

Miasma cannon - good for anyone but better on non assault specialists as it takes a pair of arms. Take on a hive tyrant with a heavy bio cannon to get a serious shooting platform, or on a tervigon for some okay firepower. Pair with the latter's new option of thorax swarms for twin fleshbane wall of death shenanigans against charging opponents.

Norn crown - on the face of it, a 6" synapse range boost sucks. It was the most forgettable of the swarmlord's abilities, and I don't remember ever casting dominion. So, Avoid? Well..... no. Best for a hive tyrant, because whilst 18" synapse is so so, 24" synapse is much more impressive - remember you can have dominion on top of this. Theoretically you could roll synaptic linchpin and get a 30" bubble, but you can't rely on that. Nevertheless, a Norn crown and dominion allow a hive tyrant shielded up behind his guard to control a huge swathe of the board. Avoid for trygon - who aren't payers and can'tbbenefit properly, and tyranid primes, who usually get a 6" bonus anyway because they're attached to a brood of other synapse creatures.


Ymgarl factor - best for assault creatures - flyrants and trygon prime - because it only works in assaults. Theoretically anyone benefits but every turn not spent in assault is wasting the upgrade, and since it can result in a TV 2+ save monstrous creature, it' justifiably a bloody expensive upgrade!

Reaper - best for anyone who can't normally take a lash whip and bonesword. The reaper costs over twice the price in return for an increased - all right, significantly increased - chance to wound. But you can do much the same on a tyranid prime with toxin sacs and hive tyrants do not generally have problems making wounds stick. A tervigon on the other hand goes from a three to wound marines to a two with a re roll and goes from striking last to striking first. An I7 trygon prime is a similarly scary concept


Ymgarl factor
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Halollet on January 12, 2014, 04:43:03 PM
Looking at genestealers... have I got this right?

Infiltrate forward.  Broodlord can pin anything in 24" range, and then just go to ground when shot at and still use its power the next turn. Meaning that things have a harder time shooting your army; like any basic troops, devastator squads, crisis suits, guard heavy weapon squads, etc. Things that can really hurt your big bugs or slaughter your gaunts.

Would this also stack with the shadow of the warp? Meaning its a -5 to psykers?  Like Grey Knights?  Would that also accumulate with the deathleaper meaning you could reduce a psyker's Ld to 2 for that pinning test?  Take that Mr Farseer!

Then, late game they can just run onto objectives or join an ongoing assault.

Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Shas'Oink on January 12, 2014, 05:30:29 PM
Instinctive behavior has just got serious. Now entire broods of bugs will literally just eat their own faces off... and man, tervigons got seriously hit by the nerfstick... doubling the death explosion range and limiting spawn mobility.

The harpy is basically dead meat as a flier though, no intercept means itll always suffer and its just not THAT survivable... same goes for its variant... which is armed to the teeth but basically cqnt use most of the weapons thanks to being a fmc instead of a flyer.

the new elite big bug seems nice, but why would you take her when a carnifex works better and is cheaper and can be taken in squads and does not take up a hard fought after elites slot?

I like that spinefists for gants are free now... but they still arent very good anyway...

there is a lot of stupid in this book, just from the quick browse I had. Id need to sit down for a longer proper read, but to be honest id feel cheated having to pay for what is essentially a new print of an old book.



venomthropes giving shrouding now is a big boost though, these should be an auto include, especially as they will form the only viable way to walk your swarm across the board.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Locarno on January 13, 2014, 05:33:59 PM
The tervigon spawn broods aren't as bad as first impression - granted they can't move after spawning but it now happens after the big bug moves, not before, which means more ore less the same.

The Haruspex is a better unit killer than a carnifex (slightly). But more importantly, one bigger bug is better than a unit of smaller ones because it won't murder itself due to instinctive behaviour.

yes, it competes for venomthrope slots, but two broods is probably enough to cover a decent swathe of the board

The hag crone can only fire two tentacles a turn, but then a "proper" flyer can only launch two missiles a turn - and the crone couldn't care less about arcs of fire.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Colonel Twisting Shadow on January 14, 2014, 12:41:33 PM
The hag crone can only fire two tentacles a turn, but then a "proper" flyer can only launch two missiles a turn - and the crone couldn't care less about arcs of fire.
A "proper" flyer gets 4 weapons per turn, two being missiles.  If the Crone vector strikes, then it just gets the one gun OR missile.  FMC's have it really hard compared to your usual jets (they always cost SO MUCH more, and with grounding…ugh).

Quite Frankly I'm disappointed, so far.  Goodbye two flyrants + 2 Tervigons.  Goodbye useful Genestealers. Goodbye Biomanacy.  seriously, biomancy was basically made FOR TYRANIDS!  Also, Byebye doom.  RIP.

What do we get in return?  Over my first reading (I've only just downloaded the book), Regeneration stands out as being pretty excellent now.  New Instinctive is pretty sweet.  Not better, but certainly more fun (think like an ork player).  As mentioned, the 'fexes are cheaper.  Sure we finally got figs for the harpy (and it's either/or), but the rules are lacklustre at best.  I'm digging Acid spray, but I don't know who gets it yet (first read through, right?).  I love the thorax weapons, but the this/that/the-other-one would be better served as 'Each turn pick.'  Haywire's nice to see too, but it's not worth the kit your trading for it.

I only have the one carnifex right now (a stonecrusher, no less), so instead of going for the Fex spam GW's pushing, I think I'm going to go rip the arms of at least one of my tervies (or both), and rebuild as a Tyrannofex.  I'll keep the twin flyrants (for sure!), and pack in a Tryprime.  After that fill up on hormagants.

I REALLY would have liked to see warriors buffed a bit.  Shrikes marginally cheaper, but w/e.

EDIT: I kept reading and noticed…
WHERE ARE MY M***** F***** SPORES!?!  I custom built five of the damned things so my bugs wouldn't have to walk like poor people!
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Halollet on January 14, 2014, 04:28:02 PM
EDIT: I kept reading and noticed…
WHERE ARE MY M***** F***** SPORES!?!  I custom built five of the damned things so my bugs wouldn't have to walk like poor people!


I think you need to thank lawyers for that.  But I wouldn't be surprised if Forge World came out with them again and made some rules for them.  Trygons started that way.  Could even see Doomy come back that way as well!


I got the codex in front of me now and from my play style, not much has changed.  (I haven't actually played Nids in 6th edition so never tasted biomancy so I literally don't know what I'm missing)  Which is a bit of a disappointment but nothing to cry about.  I do see some fun things to do with the book, mainly those psychic powers.  I'm sadden by the lack of power from the Haruspex, I was expecting a lot more from that.  I think I like the Exocrine.  People have been saying good things about it.  There are some things that I was hoping for that are in here, like mixing weapons in gaunt and warrior broods. 


I'm having a hard time equiping my Flyrant.  I used to run bonesword, whip, and talons because I play him as a CC monster, but now.... I don't know. I could go the whole route of 2 TL Devourers but I like him in assault.  I guess nothing really.  Maybe that's the best, it keeps him cheap too!  How would you equip a CC flyrant now?

I just realized that a Flyrant with the Maw-claws is super hydreigon!

(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/113/6/4/realistic_hydreigon_by_phill_art-d62n0qg.jpg)
That's awesome!
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Colonel Twisting Shadow on January 14, 2014, 07:11:54 PM
@ Halollet: Never…used…biomancy?  It was probably the greatest thing ever…  I can understand EVERYONE not rolling on it, but maybe just the tyrants?  Or maybe the Zoans could have Div (yeah right, Telekinesis then), just for some variety.

I've been reading quite a long tactics thread on war seer, and from what I can tell, flyrants might be the way of the past.  A swarm lord, or a Gunrant with HVC/Strangle and the Miasma-cannon thing, camping with a couple hive guard looks like the warlord of the future.  I'm still taking at least one flyrant, because they won me too many games to not try; but now (it seems) he can take (and then leave) his tyrant guard, giving you an extra punchy T6 mob for cheap.  Maybe throw a prime in there?

For your CC flyrant, it would seem the Lashwhip/Bonesword combo is pretty win right now, maybe just the scytals for an extra CC attack, and to skip converting I think that's what the legs are supposed to represent.  no rerolls makes me sad though; so how about that miasma-cannon for some flamer love pre-assault?  Pricey, but pretty sweet.

You hit the nail on the head about the mixing weapons though.  I'm waiting to see the perfect Ratio on Devil/normalgants, and I can't wait for the million page Fleshborer vs Spinefist thread.  maybe I'll start that one myself once I run some numbers (or google them).

And reviews I've seen on the Haruspex is with regen, plus his eat/regen rules, he makes quite a tarpit.  It's just getting him there.

I'm hoping for an expansion book with pods.  Vanguard, I think I heard.  If that's the case, they'll be my primary detachment, with allied 'normals.'  Way to go GW, I buy a $60 ebook, and the same day I start hunting for expansion rumours.  Not cool.

Your super hydreigon probably has some kind of tail biiomorph too… :)  Good luck converting one...

@ the rest of the board:  I may have been off with my Warriors complaint.  apparently with a little venomthorpe love they're quite hardy.

Also, the Deathleaper is really popular on the aforementioned Warseer thread.  With the new Mawloc rules, and his snapshot thing, he might be a good cheepee HQ, and with S6 rending on more attacks than I have fingers on a hand, he'll probably wreck tanks too.

I'm quite upset with the Tervigon Debuff.  I know they needed one, but the cost increase is just ridiculous, considering the new requirements for the FOC Shuffle.  The Psyker 1 cap is pretty irritating too, considering ML3 isn't all that unfair with biomancy gone.


Quick question for everyone, about the Red Terror: is that cost to upgrade one model to be him, or is that the cost to add another whole fig to the squad?  it's worded like the later, but then he would be CHEAPER than his squad mates?  Maybe the unit is his tax?
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Halollet on January 14, 2014, 08:02:16 PM
I never used biomancy because I never played Nids under the 6th edition rules so it wasn't invented the last time I fielded my nid force.

I think the sword and whip might be a win for the flyrant.  Charge in an issue a challenge and then smite that character, no damage. During their turn you smash the rest of the squad and with minimal retailiation and hopefully they fall back, rinse and repeat!

For a flame attack on the charge I'll just take a thorax biomorph.  I'm leaning towards the Shreddershard beetles because with shred and rend, against MEQ or TEQ; a 5 wounds, a 6 kills, and then you get to try again with all the other rolls which result in more 6s!  I think that's pretty cool!

The Red Terror is an add on, so you can have 9 Raveners and a RT in one brood.  He might be worth the points too, 4 attacks base, +1 for two CCW, +1 for charging and at WS6.... he could easily be eating characters left and right!  Plus he gives the unit a Ld bonus which helps if they ever get outside synapse.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Colonel Twisting Shadow on January 14, 2014, 11:29:24 PM
Wow; I read that wrong, the Red Terror is a significant cost increase, I was stacking him vs a squad of 3, not vs individual raveners.  When I slow down and read it all makes sense…

I still advocate the miasma thing (in addition to the thorax), as you get a 36" range attack as you book up the field, and when your up close, you can fire BOTH templates.  MCs for the win :)  Alternatively, you could run double Scytal, and just smash your strength up to instakil for SMurfs, you'd still be pushing 4+ attacks on the charge (maybe more?  Book's not around).  I might have to get me another Flyrant.

EDIT: misread scytals.  exactly 4 attacks on the charge when smashing up.  Stoopid 2 claws count as one weapon.  I guess the hive mind didn't teach us to count :(

I'm not sold on raveners yet, but if I get them I guess I'm taking the Terror for two reasons: that higher LD (I think Synapse will make or break in this edition); and that sexy, sexy model.

How is everyone feeling about our new shooty prospects?  The amount of Heavy Vencannons we can pack into a list has gone up exponentially, they're practically free thanks to the discounts on fexen/harpies/tyrants.  Or Dakka'rants and harpies with Exocrines and Tyrannofexen as HS…  We could start a war from our deployment zone now!  When you come up against an army with 'proper' shooting skills all these beasts will stomp in CC, even without dedicated gear.  It's probably a lost cause, but it's sure intriguing.

And with what is becoming tradition with my posts on this thread, I'll warm up to warriors a just a little bit more.  Three with a venom cannon might be a new auto include for me objective camping.  I might be the first one here to point it out, but I'm pretty sure there isn't anything stopping us from using quad guns anymore (?) 
I can't wait to convert a bug sucking the brain out of a guardsman manning a quad…

On that point, where was it before that we couldn't man gun emplacements?  I can't find it in the rule book, so I'm guessing it was in the FAQ.  since that's outdated, and the codex doesn't mention it (that I've seen yet)…we're good to go?  If that's the case, it's time to pick up the Stronghold Assault book, and get to scratch building some ballin fortifications.  Maybe warriors in a building for a bigger synaptic net?  I could have something with an actual AV value!!!

I really hope our new codex revives this board, I've not seen this much action in so few days in years...
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on January 14, 2014, 11:36:14 PM
Any interesting new fluff or is it same old, same old +X Hive Fleets?
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Colonel Twisting Shadow on January 15, 2014, 12:23:22 AM
@ Rummy: Behemoth, Kraken, Gorgon, and Leviathan get multiple page write-ups.  Somewhere around what the SM are getting for First Founding chapters in their recent codex (maybe a bit more). There's full timelines for three separate Tyrannic Wars too, from first encounter with splinter fleets.  there are tidbits on Hive Fleet Hydra, Moloch, and Jormagundr too, but not lots. 

I was (skeptically) hoping for lots of Jormagundr fluff.  I know it's someone's personal fleet (a FW painter, I think), but I guess they got so popular they're cannon now.   Aside from a few mentions, and maybe a story there's not much though.  They get special mention on a Bio-Artifact though!

There's a pretty map showing where all these fleets are coming from with respects to the galaxy as we know it.  Leviathan is actually coming up through the galactic plane (like on the Z axis), which is pretty neat.

Also, a page on hive ships, two pages on the phases of planetary infestation (but no timeline; like in the Apoc reload book), and a few other goodies too; but to compensate they lumped some unit entries together (feeder organisms, artillery organisms, Guard).

There's still fluff for the Doom of Malan'tai and Parasite of Mortex, in spite of them not being included.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on January 15, 2014, 01:48:26 AM
Not so bad then (fluff wise). Perhaps a drunken purchase later on in the month/year/decade. Depending on expansions, as said earlier, as the expansions may be more interesting in the long run (fluff wise).
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Locarno on January 15, 2014, 04:04:42 PM
The Miasma cannon would seem a poor buy for an assault winged tyrant since you can now give them a thorax swarm, which doesn't impact their attacks.

Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Halollet on January 15, 2014, 06:10:22 PM
Maybe I'm just blind but I just realized that you can still get 2 heavy venom cannons or 2 straglethorns on 1 MC.

Now here's a question

Dakka fex or Tyranofex?

2 Strangle thorns (150 pts) vs Flesh borer hive (180 pts)
2 heavy venoms (160 pts) vs Rupture Cannon (205 pts)

Tyrannofex has more wounds and better save and has a torrent weapon it can fire on top of its big gun. Carnifex is slightly cheaper, has higher str, and can come in broods.

Strangle thorn is double the range of the flesh borer hive and higher strength so I think Carni would win that round

Rupture has longer range and higher strength but you have to roll to hit but could snap fire at a flyer and ruin its day if need be.  The blasts from the venom can scatter off your intended target but can still hit something anyways.

Thoughts?

------Edit---

Nope, never mind, its one a piece.  Apparently I can't read.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Dangerousdave0042 on January 16, 2014, 08:08:51 AM
I'm thinking Flyrant and Deathleaper my two HQ units.

Deathleaper seems great. Only snap shots can be fired at him. No blast weapons, no templates. Use the "it's after me skill" on an enemy psyker and combined with SITW means you've nerfed the opponents psyker (unless GK where everyone is a psyker, but then at least SITW is more beneficial).

Start DL on the board an infiltrate him - move him forward turn 1 and then hopefully in turn 2 the Mawlocs arrive and don't scatter. Yes they might deep strike mishap, but unless you roll a 1 - who cares? PLUS IF YOU GO BACK INTO ONGOING RESERVE YOU GET TO DO THE SAME NEXT TURN AND YOU CAN'T BE SHOT AT IN ONGOING RESERVE! SO YOU GET A BONUS TERROR FROM THE DEEP AND DON'T GET SHOT. AWESOME. OVERALL I WOULD SAY THE POSSIBILITY OF DEEP STRIKE MISHAPPING HAS MADE THE MAWLOC BETTER!

I haven't worked out points yet, but a brood of 3 carnifexes looks great. How many HoW hits at I10 when all three of them hit the enemy!

Not sure how many points are left for troops! Plus will need some warriors now for synapse - they have a purpose now.

Plus I think 2 venomthropes are a must now.

I don't rate the Hive Crone at all.

The Harpy is possible I think, but I'd rather pay the extra points for another flyrant (except I can't as I've already used up my two HQ slots!).

The Tervigon has got a big nerf, but then it was rather overpowered and undercosted previously, you need to take off the points cost of about termagents (you should get at least this number spawned from it) to get it's true points value. I wouldn't completely write this unit off, but it won't get spammed like it was before.

Anyway, that's my tuppence.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Colonel Twisting Shadow on January 16, 2014, 12:26:16 PM
The Miasma cannon would seem a poor buy for an assault winged tyrant since you can now give them a thorax swarm, which doesn't impact their attacks.
Maybe the old thorax weapons?.  The new codex has no such claws (get it?), so it still counts as one of the two guns F/MC shoots each turn.

I'm thinking Flyrant and Deathleaper my two HQ units.

Deathleaper seems great…
Agreed, to the point where I've got one on order right now.  I think this guy is going to be the new discount HQ option.  Only a few points more than a naked Prime, and enough special rules (and synergies!) to justify his inclusion.  With the snapshot thing/stealth, he's potentially tougher than some of our MCs too…  Watch out for Skyfire units though

Quote from: Dangerousdave0042
The Tervigon has got a big nerf, but then it was rather overpowered and undercosted previously, you need to take off the points cost of about termagents (you should get at least this number spawned from it) to get it's true points value. I wouldn't completely write this unit off, but it won't get spammed like it was before.

Anyway, that's my tuppence.
This isn't even the the half of it.  With the new scuttling swarm rules, its damn near impossible to spam them.  Your looking at 335pts for every tervigon in the troops slot; and that's with everyone naked.  The triple tervigon list is dead, under (at LEAST) 2k; assuming you want to spend HQ slots on something with actual damage output.

I think one in the troops section will still be a standard (as a big mob of Termagants suddenly got a whole lot better), but it's unlikely you'll see more than that outside of thematic lists.  Like I said on the last page, I think I'm ripping the arms of at least one of mine for a Tyrannofex (it's the only 2+ in the whole codex, I think).

Tuppence?



Anyway, if/when we get our first expansion book (be it Kraken/Behemoth, or Vanguard), and it opens up a third HQ/heavy I think the codex will be A LOT more competitive.  Glancing around the internet, all the 'strong' lists tend to be at 2k for Dual FOC.  Not that power gaming is great basis for play, but 2 Tyrants and a death leaper would be nice.  Or a pair each of exocrines/mawlocs.  Or 12 Carnifex  ;D
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Halollet on January 16, 2014, 05:32:00 PM
Hold up... I just thought of something.  I got my butt kicked by a Tau Deathstar unit in a league game.  In a Tau + Farsight list, the dude had 2 riptides and a commander in one unit.

So... my Flyrant with sword, whip, and poison charges and declares a challenge.

If he accepts with a riptide, then I have a good chance to outright kill it with the bonesword because of the rerolls and he doesn't get his FNP against it. If not I can take a riptide out of combat and I'll still probably win and I still might instant death something.  Then, if I win combat (which I probably will), and they break (there's a good chance since smiting a riptide is -5 ld test!), there's only a 1 in 36 chance that they'll get away.  Meaning in one turn I can wipe a Tau Deathstar pretty easily.

That seems a lot easier then it should.  Unless they get their shields up successfully, then it might be a bit harder.  I could still tie them up for a while until the sheilds fail or a get a lucky shot through.

Have I missed something or are flyrants just that damn good?

Even hit a WraithKnight with Paroxym and its only hitting your flyrant on a 5+ if you don't outright kill it on the charge!


Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Gunner_Sabot_Tank on January 16, 2014, 05:36:38 PM
The Miasma cannon would seem a poor buy for an assault winged tyrant since you can now give them a thorax swarm, which doesn't impact their attacks.
Maybe the old thorax weapons?.  The new codex has no such claws (get it?), so it still counts as one of the two guns F/MC shoots each turn.

I think what he meant was the thorax swarm doesn't take up a set of arms so you can kit it out for CC and still have a shooting attack.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Master Bio-Titan BT on January 17, 2014, 08:44:00 AM
@ Colonel:  Tuppence- A UK silver or bronze coin equal to 2 cents.  AKA, "My two cents"


I only recently got my `dex yesterday and browsed over the units in the back of the book as my Nyquil was kicking in.  Am I correct or just drunk from Nyquil, but we can now take mixed weaponry in a unit of Termagants?  Does this mean we can screen our own unit with cheap Fleshborer Termagants in the front and have Devilgants in the back as we move up the field?  That way the Fleshborers take the wounds before having to allocate wounds to the Devourers!?
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Halollet on January 17, 2014, 09:57:23 AM
@ Colonel:  Tuppence- A UK silver or bronze coin equal to 2 cents.  AKA, "My two cents"


I only recently got my `dex yesterday and browsed over the units in the back of the book as my Nyquil was kicking in.  Am I correct or just drunk from Nyquil, but we can now take mixed weaponry in a unit of Termagants?  Does this mean we can screen our own unit with cheap Fleshborer Termagants in the front and have Devilgants in the back as we move up the field?  That way the Fleshborers take the wounds before having to allocate wounds to the Devourers!?

You're not drunk, yes you can do that. You can mix weapons with every unit actually. Just things like toxin sacs and adrenal glands have to but unit wide.  Helps warriors but not enough.  You can hide bone swords in the unit now but by the time you add on all the other biomorphs to get them in combat I don't think they're worth it.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Master Bio-Titan BT on January 17, 2014, 10:13:00 AM
I think that one of the things that people forget about Warriors is their ability to spread out in a single file line and provide a very large area of synaptic coverage.  Paired up with some Venomthroapes and you should worry little about keeping that coverage intact.  If you have enough big bugs to distract your enemy from focusing fire on your Warriors then you have a very reliable synaptic coverage.  It's a no brainer that Tyranids must work in synergy to work out well.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Dangerousdave0042 on January 17, 2014, 01:15:43 PM
I also think that Ymgarl mutation is good on the HT (or Tervigon). You must change the mutation at the start of the assault phase. So ....

At the start of my assault phase I choose plus one armour save - ie I have a 2+ armour save on my Tyrant, Tervigon etc during my opponents shooting phase.

Then at the start of their assault phase I change it to either of the other two (it really doesn't matter which if I'm not in combat).

Then at the start of my assault phase I choose plus one armour save.

Rinse and repeat.

Yes it does cost some points, but I have now in effect got a 2+ armour save on my flyrant. Of course it does nothing for the grounded test, but ....

Of course if you're being meltad or lascannoned it doesn't make a difference, but those pesky sternguard vengeance rounds won't get past your armour.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: LoH on January 17, 2014, 02:03:27 PM
I also think that Ymgarl mutation is good on the HT (or Tervigon). You must change the mutation at the start of the assault phase. So ....

At the start of my assault phase I choose plus one armour save - ie I have a 2+ armour save on my Tyrant, Tervigon etc during my opponents shooting phase.

Then at the start of their assault phase I change it to either of the other two (it really doesn't matter which if I'm not in combat).

Then at the start of my assault phase I choose plus one armour save.

It doesn't work that way, given that the mutation is worded such that it lasts until the end of the phase (similar to Chaos Spawn).
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Halollet on January 17, 2014, 02:05:01 PM
I also think that Ymgarl mutation is good on the HT (or Tervigon). You must change the mutation at the start of the assault phase. So ....

At the start of my assault phase I choose plus one armour save - ie I have a 2+ armour save on my Tyrant, Tervigon etc during my opponents shooting phase.

Then at the start of their assault phase I change it to either of the other two (it really doesn't matter which if I'm not in combat).

Then at the start of my assault phase I choose plus one armour save.

Rinse and repeat.

Yes it does cost some points, but I have now in effect got a 2+ armour save on my flyrant. Of course it does nothing for the grounded test, but ....

Of course if you're being meltad or lascannoned it doesn't make a difference, but those pesky sternguard vengeance rounds won't get past your armour.

Nope sorry.  Read it again, it only lasts for that phase which means you can never ever get a 2+ against shooting ever.  Some of the rage and wtfness against this coded is justified.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Balkar on January 17, 2014, 02:57:04 PM
I don't have the codex in front of me but I thought it said you just can't take it two turns in a row, but the unit can use it multiple times in one game.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Dangerousdave0042 on January 18, 2014, 07:22:58 AM
Oh yes. I mis-read that bit. Hmmm. A bit crap then and not really worth the points me thinks.

Maybe worth it on a Tyranid Prime that's tooled up for cc with a cc squad of Warriors, but otherwise I don't think it's worth it for a MC that has the smash USR anyway.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Halollet on January 18, 2014, 03:33:02 PM
Had a thought....

If you filled your list with Harpies, Biovores, and Tervigons then you could have a list dedicated to making new nids. 

4 Tervigons, 60 termagants, 3 harpies with Heavy Venoms, and 9 biovores is 1800 points.

1st turn you make 12d3 sporemines (or about that many explosions) and 12d6 termagants.

I find this interesting.  How about you?

Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Travellar on January 19, 2014, 10:59:44 PM
@someone,
no, you cannot give a Carnifex (or anything else) double cannons, check the notes.

I really want to like this codex, but I've been feeling the same thing that was mentioned on page 1 of this thread, where I'm feeling ripped off to have paid ~$50 for this book.  Yes, some of the points values got tweaked, and I can't honestly say I'm sad to see Ymgarls gone.  But between the 50% jump in points cost on Warrior Primes, and the loss of Mysetic spores, a whole lot of tactical options just went up in smoke.

Griping aside, I feel a moral obligation to add something constructive to this thread.
+ Biovores which miss... don't.
    Spore mines placed by a Biovore miss are not arriving from reserve, so, as far as tonight's opponent and I can tell, get to charge immediately after having missed their target.

+ Psychic powers aren't bad.
    Yeah, gone are the days of the Tervigon choosing the best of three different powers, and gone are the days of Blink-a-thropes gating into enemy backfields to slag tanks.  but at least everything on our psychic power list now seems useful, and at least Zoans are guaruntied to get thier signature power.

* I view the Haurospex as the ultimate terror weapon.  If it reaches the enemy line and starts charging things, it is going to be an extrodinarily difficult model for your opponent to get rid of.  Splurge on the regen, and that jumps to nigh-impossible. (though I'd advise forgetting about the claws altogether)  Take two to make sure this happens, or just one to give the rest of your force a pass from enemy fire for a while.

* Venomthropes
     At first glance, they seem nerfed in that they only give shroud to the MODELS in 6" of them, but the shroud rule itself confers this benefit to every other model in the unit.  Either way, you need more than one if you want them to stay on the field.  It's nigh impossible to convince a determined opponent that they don't have a shot because the line of sight through the ruins, over the termagants, and between the Tyrant's legs just doesn't exist.  In fact, I think I can remember one time convincing anyone they didn't have any shot they wanted since 6th ed came out.

+ Carnifex
     The screaming ball of hate that is three carnies charging across the table got a lot more affordable, and with the (much nicer) Living battering ram rule, getting in front of them is unlikely to be covered by one's life insurance.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Halollet on January 20, 2014, 12:46:36 AM
Definatly good to start focusing on the positives.  The Exocrine seems really scary to me.  When I play my GKs against one, that's my first target for sure!

However;

* I view the Haurospex as the ultimate terror weapon.  If it reaches the enemy line and starts charging things, it is going to be an extrodinarily difficult model for your opponent to get rid of.  Splurge on the regen, and that jumps to nigh-impossible. (though I'd advise forgetting about the claws altogether)  Take two to make sure this happens, or just one to give the rest of your force a pass from enemy fire for a while.

I really really really want to like the Haruspex, I really do.  But even with its annoying 'ha ha you can't kill me' It still only has 3 attacks at guardsman's WS.  It can get tarpitted by anything really unless you have other CC nids with you.

being in the elite section has its benefits because its not competing on that front against carnifexes which hit so much harder!

It looks so much more dangerous then it actually is.

And why doesn't it have flesh hooks? It has a mouth full of fleshy hooks!  Aaargh!
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Travellar on January 22, 2014, 01:10:39 PM
Read it's special rules under "Feeder Organisms", it gets more attacks on the charge.  plus the attack for charging, and hammer of wrath.  A tail biomorph can push that up a bit too.

Also, when I refer to it as a terror weapon, what I really mean is something that will either draw an inordinate amount of attention to itself or else make hash of the enemy battleplan.  I think the Haurospex can do both.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Halollet on January 22, 2014, 08:51:50 PM
Read it's special rules under "Feeder Organisms", it gets more attacks on the charge.  plus the attack for charging, and hammer of wrath.  A tail biomorph can push that up a bit too.

Also, when I refer to it as a terror weapon, what I really mean is something that will either draw an inordinate amount of attention to itself or else make hash of the enemy battleplan.  I think the Haurospex can do both.

Rapacious Hunger: Only when it charges and only from his regular attacks.  Hammer of wrath and the tail biomorph don't help with it.  Its just eh. 

On the charge you'll, on average, get another 1.7 attacks which half will hit, 0.83 hits, and will cause 0.7 wounds.  Whoop di do....

If it was every turn, then yeah, I'd go for that because odds are you'll get a good round.  But only when it charges?  I think opponents will either stay away from it, or just charge it to get rid of its bonuses. 


Does make me ask a question though.  Do the hammer of wrath and tail attacks trigger its Feeder-beast special rule?  I think it does because I can't find anything that says it doesn't.


As a distraction?  That MIGHT work, but there's still nothing extraordinary about it to make it last.  People have answers to Riptides and Wraithknights; both are much harder to kill then any nid MC so I really don't see any one nid lasting too long.  Maybe the t-fex....
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Gunner_Sabot_Tank on January 23, 2014, 01:15:40 AM
I see no reason why HoW and tail attacks wouldn't trigger the Feeder Beast rule since they occur in the assault phase same as the normal attacks.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Spirit of Kurnous on January 23, 2014, 07:46:48 AM
I am sure they do work for the feeder beast rule (which is regaining wounds one) but not on rapacious hunger (which is the extra attacks one) because it specifically says so. GW were actually quite clear with some rules for a change :D
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Locarno on January 26, 2014, 08:13:21 AM
Having seen someone on the receiving end of a mawloc attack, I can honestly say these things are now insanely good.

Firstly they got a points break nearly as big as a carnifex, but it was watching one attack a big crusader squad that realky underscored how ******* deadly they are. Deep struck right in the centre, and killed six marines. Second attack (that's new!) Killed three more and a neophyte. The sword brother was still alive, so it's a mishap..... but wait! What is the most likely mishap? Yup, it's "delayed", which puts the mawloc back in reserve, allowing the bloody thing to do it again next turn and finish off the shattered remains of the unit..

Shai-hulud!
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Halollet on January 27, 2014, 09:50:04 AM
Having seen someone on the receiving end of a mawloc attack, I can honestly say these things are now insanely good.

Firstly they got a points break nearly as big as a carnifex, but it was watching one attack a big crusader squad that realky underscored how ******* deadly they are. Deep struck right in the centre, and killed six marines. Second attack (that's new!) Killed three more and a neophyte. The sword brother was still alive, so it's a mishap..... but wait! What is the most likely mishap? Yup, it's "delayed", which puts the mawloc back in reserve, allowing the bloody thing to do it again next turn and finish off the shattered remains of the unit..

Shai-hulud!

That's good to hear! Now I want one! :p

Speaking of success stories does anyone else have a tale to tell about something new working out?  With all the boos that have been thrown at this new codex, some glimmers of hope would be good to hear!

Anyone have any fun with broodlords yet?  I've been snowed in and have yet to play a game :(
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Travellar on January 27, 2014, 12:28:34 PM
One tactic I pulled years ago to great success was the Chitinous Phalanx.  Our last codex priced it out of usefulnes, but perhaps now...

Hive Tyrants + Carnifex broods up front.
Genestealer waves behind
(maybe add some Venomthropes in the back?)

Build a wall, shoulder to shoulder with the MCs, and hide the Stealers behind.  You'll start dropping MCs, but should be able to fill the gaps.  Since Carnies come in broods now, even gaps in the line aren't neccissarily disasterous.  By the time you're out of monsterous critters, you should be delivering Genestealers directly into close combat, possibly without overwatch as you had scarier things in the front rank tanking them.

Not a pretty tactic, and it's essentially a sacrifice play with the most expensive models.  still, could be worth a try.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown on February 5, 2014, 11:22:04 AM
The new codex is utterly, laughably awful, and lazy to boot. They learned almost nothing from the last one, and compounded the errors in many ways. I've had a good long look through it and refuse to spend my money on such dreck. Although it was obviously unconnected there is something humorously ironic about the fact that GW's stock dropped by almost 25% shortly after this book was released, because it is probably worse than the Tomb Kings book.

Unless my opponents are willing to allow me to use the 5th ed codex (never thought I'd miss it...) or even better the 4th ed one with some tweaks, I no longer play Tyranids. Sad clown is very, very sad.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Master Bio-Titan BT on February 5, 2014, 06:17:05 PM
It certainly is a copy/paste codex and lacks any flare IMO.  Hardly has anything new and I am pissed about not having spores.  I think the reason for that is that GW could not make a good looking drop pod to make it worth making/marketing.  So, essentially, its the same codex.  Yeah, they made it a hard back!  That was worth it right!?
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Gunner_Sabot_Tank on February 5, 2014, 07:14:10 PM
It certainly is a copy/paste codex and lacks any flare IMO.  Hardly has anything new and I am pissed about not having spores.  I think the reason for that is that GW could not make a good looking drop pod to make it worth making/marketing.  So, essentially, its the same codex.  Yeah, they made it a hard back!  That was worth it right!?

I heard from reliable sources on other sites that we lost spores as a result of the ruling in the Chapterhouse Studios lawsuit.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Spectral Arbor on February 8, 2014, 10:15:17 PM
I played against Tyranids for the first time in probably over a decade this afternoon. 1850 pts. I won the game thanks to seizing the initiative and then getting First Blood. I don't think their codex is bad, at all. I'm lucky to have won, it's one of the closest games I've had in a long time.

Guants with Devourers are half the points of a Marine, and each fire 3 shots? I'm not sure if that was something old or not, but holy crap. Throw a handful of the cheaper Spine Fist guys in the front and you're laughing off casualties, while laying down unsurpassed volume of fire from a Troops choice. I mean, what other troops cost so little and can fire so many shots from one model? Guardsmen with Lasguns, that get an Order from an Officer [similar to a "Blessing" psychic power] is the only thing I can think of.

On top of that, by shuffling broods of multi-wound models around, you can put a couple of wounds on this guy, shuffle the next forward so he starts taking wounds... oh, let's move the third guy forward to take the hits now. I can't think of any army that has that kind of resiliency [take damage, but still maintain damage output] built into so many models.

A pair of Carnifex that hit a vehicle are going to wipe it out. Like, "D" weapon type efficiency, even vs a Land Raider.

All of the psychic powers are useful, in a TAC kind of way.

All of the Warlord traits are useful, in a TAC kind of way.

I'm told that Warriors can be made to outflank. Shrikes are "jump" warriors that lose a bit on their armour save, but gain incredible mobility. Even jumping into cover is not that frightening, since they are multi-wound models, and wounds can be spread around your squad. A Mawloc that "misses" is still a big, scary MC that people need to focus upon right next to their unit. That increases the survival rate of incoming "slow" MC's.

Yes, Eldar can hurt your MC with their shurikens. But they have to get close to use them, and that's not so bad for Nids. They might get one, but they aren't going to get them all.

There are enough heavy hitters, blended with lots of horde wounds, mixed with disruption units, some fast bully units to pin enemy units, tied together with entirely useful psychic powers... Yes, they have a tough time when facing a lot of vehicles, but they always have. With missions forcing players out of their deployment zones, getting to grips with them has never been easier, even on a long board like Hammer and Anvil.

To the people that are down on the codex, I must encourage you to try it out. Hit all of the points above, and I think you'll have an effective army on your hands. I don't agree that the Nids have been given a raw deal, I think they just require a wide selection of units to succeed on the table top.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: bebe on February 8, 2014, 11:50:08 PM

Carnifexen are very nice now for the Fexstar unit with the drop in cost.

Tyranid Prime and 3 Fexen put out 36 S6 shots and 3 S5 shots advancing (if they get Onslaught look out). That is 450 for the Fexen and 125 for your synapse Prime. Those are TL shots as well. This is a great unit. I have tested dual Fexstar at 1750 with some success. It is a tough list. I run eighty gants with it and zoan in quad gun bastion and venomthrope, etc. Sure I can lose when the dice go bad but with half decent rolls the list is tough to handle. I tried the Fexstar in the last codex as well and was not unhappy with it I'm a little peeved Primes went up in cost but meh, I want to use them for synapse and for my obligatory HQ. I can live with it. So those knocking the new codex should also be aware that first day at the LVO tournament three Nid lists went undefeated. I would not be knocking Nids so fast.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Halollet on February 9, 2014, 12:16:45 PM
I played my nids against GBT yesterday and here's what I've learned.

Broods of fexes are awesome, that 1d3 per fex HoW hits are just brutal and I kept one fex alive with 1 wound for 2 turns because the healthy one was up front.

Warriors are as resilient as I thought they would be, I still had 4 out of 6 of them by the end of the game, there was too much other stuff that was more dangerous that he had to fire his big guns at.

Zoans really are meh.  Maybe other people had better luck with them, but they never really do much for me.  I had a perfect shot with the warp blast at a charging hellhound and the thing resisted the witch.... They're okay, but they will be the first thing I cut should I need the points for something else.

Regeneration is okay because opponents would either ignore it, or focus fire on it to basically wipe it out.  Although on T-fexs, Tervigons, and Haruspex I can see it being worth it.

Foot slogging sucks.  GBT had a nice little corner in the back where he sat the hole game and I couldn't touch him.  Mind you, if I had biovores or a mawloc then that would be a different story.  I think I might proxy 2 biovores for my next list.

I'm annoyed that there's no way to up the resilience of any nid other then to take regeneration.  Had a thought though, if a flyer is next to a venomthrope and does  its jink, wouldn't that be a 3+ save?

Exocrines are very interesting.  Really nasty shooting, I definitely went for the multishot more then the pie plate.

I wasn't able to test out the Horror power too much because everyone outside of a tank was too far away.  Still going to bring a brood of stealers.

I'm trying of to think of ways to get across the board.  Any thoughts?  Because Emperors' Will with a Hammer and Anvil setup is brutal.

The other thing I've noticed about nids is that they can really spam pie plates.

A few questions about Spore Mines.

I'm thinking of taking 2-3 clusters of them since my fast attack choices are wide open. 
1) If they deep strike on an enemy, then do they mishap and not explode?
2) Am I correct in that spore mines have to get into assault, past overwatch, in order to explode?
3) If the above 2 are correct, would it best then to use full size clusters?
4) Are they a half decent substitute for biovores if you are hard pressed for heavy support choices?
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: bebe on February 9, 2014, 04:39:17 PM

Zoans are not used for their warp blast ( although there is nothing wrong woth warp blast). They are there for synapse, catalyst, onslaught and they should be manning a gun in a bastion or redoubt. We have two choices with Nids. Go for a very fast list or walk up the board with a very tough list. Foot slogging lists can work. You just need three turns before you start putting the heat on your opponent. So lots of T6 MCs for sure. Spore clusters work the way you wrote it. Of course you want 6. That is how you get a S9 blast. Biovores sit in their own unique niche. Against some lists they are rgeat and against others, meh. We have a lot of good HS units. HS is very crowded.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Ironhide on April 19, 2014, 11:46:37 AM
Hey there Nid players,

Although I am not a Nid player, I have played against them a few times as they're my regular opponent's favourite army and I have yet to win a game against them, and I thought that you may like to see what its like to be facing the Nids and maybe see how strong they can be even with the new Codex.

We regularly play 1500 points, depending how we feel (and I can't go over 1500 points yet)

I'm playing Dark Angels,

Belial, 10 Deathwing with 5 Thunderhammer + Stormshield, Assault Cannon, Cyclone Missile Launcher

1 level 2 Librarian in Terminator armour

5 Tactical Marines Veteran Sergeant, 4 boltguns x2

5 Devestators 3 Missile Launchers inc Flakk Missiles, 1 Lascannon

5 Devestators 4 Plasma Cannons

1 Predator w TL lascannon and Heavy Bolters

1 Landspeeder Typhoon

My mate takes 30 strong units of Termagaunts and Hormanants, and a Tervigon regularly. I have found that, although the models, individually die quite easily, the fact that there is so many of them, means that they can soak up a lot of damage and tar pit my Deathwing. The Tervigon, just replaces everything that's been killed anyway, so all you're doing is wading through one tar pit to find yourself facing another! Yes, I can deep strike Belial and 10 Deathwing into his DZ and the cheapest fellas he has access to usually wear them down and kill them off, with the number of attacks that they can make.

My army's concentrated heavy fire power does not always take out the big bad fellas in a hurry (though it does knock them down) and so they are able to regenerate wounds, al be it one per turn, so that's usually 1 turn of an army's
Heavy Firepower and 1 or 2 units shooting at it in turn 2- unless you've got split fire, 1 Lascannon shot killing it, is enough, cos then the Missile Launcher's can't target a different unit.

My mate also takes an Exocrine regularly as well as a Crone and/or a Mawloc, the Exocrine is nasty for its Heavy weapon being able to move AND shoot in the same turn, unlike a Marine Vindicator, so that is a bullet magnet and does not always fall, especially in the 1st turn (it also takes more hits to kill it that a Vindicator does), so it pretty much always gets to use its gun.

Mawloc is nasty, as you can't do anything to it until it shows up and when it shows up, you pretty much have lost something to its attack.

Deathleaper's pretty nasty, as we only have the ability to snap fire at him.

Hope that helps you all when thinking what you want to do with your armies.
Title: Re: So, we got a new codex
Post by: Locarno on April 25, 2014, 02:07:52 AM
Okay... got a game myself against my flatmate's new wych cult. 1500 points, 3x30 flesborer gaunts, and 5 tervigons with adrenal glands.

It was pretty one sided due to bad tactics and missed opportunities from me.

Highlight points codex-wise:
The Horror is awesome. Two of my five tervigons rolled it and pinned down three units at key moments in the game. Actually reliable pinning is awesome, and a couple of 5 strong stealer broods with broodlords is tempting just for the havoc the can cause. Sadly you can't pin troops in an assault vehicle, or bikes (who can't go to ground). Which was a shame, as 9 reavers caltroped two tervigons into borscht  with a single pass each..

Psychic Scream, by comparison can get knotted. I managed to use it with three enemy units in nova range, rolled an average 7 on my dice each time, against dark eldar who are not an especially high ld army -  and did nothing. Not a single wound. Dominion it is.

Adrenal glands will be coming out of the list. Fleet is nice but not nice enough not to just sit behind a termagant skirmish screen and get a cover save. Trying tervigons ahead of the line due to fleet and spawn-after-move was stupid and doesn't work.

Devourers are awesome. The number of times I was fractionally out of range or didn't quite wipe out a unit was annoying, and a 40 point "submachinegun section" in each brood can resolve this at bargain price - and add masses of overwatch to make up for the loss of counterattack.

Finally - realized afterwards - my army is now illegal. Tervigons are no longer characters,  and your warlord must be a character - and he's compulsory. Bugger.

Termagants are much less effective in assault. I admit that with poison and counterattack, we were spoiled, but now they get neither (all right, still technically counterattack but at ld6 who cares?). Expect to lose a lot more warm bodies.