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The Armies of 40k => Space Marines => Topic started by: Draggo Blacksun on October 14, 2017, 10:08:46 AM

Title: Black Templars in 8th edition, thoughts?
Post by: Draggo Blacksun on October 14, 2017, 10:08:46 AM
I'm a Templar player from back in 4th ed...I stuck it out in 5th hoping for an update. When it came, I was bitterly disappointed. So I dropped out in 6th and 7th. Now that 8th has hit the ground running. I would like to get your opinions on a Templar force in this new edition.

I have read the rules and the **Shudder** Space Marine codex, I have even attempted the game in 8th with my Templars. While they are still missing a --LOT-- of what made them fun in the past. They are much better now, than they were in 6th and 7th. I think it has more to do with the 8th ed rules than the Templars though.

So I'm putting this out here to see what you think. Are they a viable army again, or should I wait in the vain hope that GW will release a Codex Black Templars again.

P.S... bring back Vows, Zeal, Sword Brother Sqd, Holy Hand Grenade, Blessed Hull, POTMS and make them CQ specialist again. Just to liven up the gun lines.

Ever Crusading
Title: Re: Black Templars in 8th edition, thoughts?
Post by: Grand Master Lomandalis on October 14, 2017, 11:51:08 AM
They are a valid army, primarily because they are Space Marines and will always be a valid army.  Their Righteous Zeal rule allows them to be a reliable assault force, which can help capitalize on units deep striking.  But you are right in that one of the reasons they are better than previous editions is because the 8th edition rules are better for them.

... or should I wait in the vain hope that GW will release a Codex Black Templars again.
Once they folded them into the Space Marine codex, I think it is safe to say that them ever getting their own codex is never going to happen.
Title: Re: Black Templars in 8th edition, thoughts?
Post by: Guildmage Arcas on October 17, 2017, 05:50:04 PM
To a great degree its up to the player to build a themed army. Avoiding the units you think Templars never use for example.

Does their Crusader Squad let them play a horde style of game that other marines can't?

Sadly it looks like there will never be a stand alone codex unless GW decide to start fleshing out chapters again. Hey, it could be worse! You be White Scars like me! :P
Title: Re: Black Templars in 8th edition, thoughts?
Post by: Killersquid on October 17, 2017, 06:39:56 PM
The special characters are huge force multipliers for them. The charge bonus is great for deep striking assault squads.

Their psychic denying strategem could be clutch too.

Title: Re: Black Templars in 8th edition, thoughts?
Post by: MechTau on October 18, 2017, 02:13:48 AM
Crusader squads are really good, and have "Defenders of Humanity."

You can easily create gigantic tactical squads that take forever to hit the heavy weapon inside, while camping objectives.

100 T4 models in a 2k point army is possible!

I think you take grav cannon and tons of plasma.

The other big thing is Cenobyte servitors, which are cheap as heck, and can hide behind cover and force the other guy to go and find them. They also reduce HQ tax as you rearrange your army for CPs.
Title: Re: Black Templars in 8th edition, thoughts?
Post by: Saim-Dann on October 18, 2017, 05:47:07 AM
G'day Draggo Blacksun!
Went up against Black Templars, with Eldar, a couple weeks ago and everything you said and wished for was said and wished for on that day. They still handed my own buttocks to me though. 2000pt battle, 11 pts to 5.

Briant is a very skilled player who has been wielding the black smurfs for a long time. Even without all the benefits, they used to have, he proved it's the tactics that win games, not buffs. His unit of the game was his Emperor's champion who was kept back till the right moment then cleaned up ... Pointy ears forever!!

 
Title: Re: Black Templars in 8th edition, thoughts?
Post by: Draggo Blacksun on October 23, 2017, 06:36:44 AM
Thank you for your responses... And the Game Saim-Dann. Learning the new rules for your army, is made easier when playing against a reasonable and experienced player. Besides I think it was more dice rolls than my strategy that won the game.

@ MechTau: Yes the Black Tide is... BACK!

@ KillerSquid: OH YEAH...Helbrect and Grimaldus are now very much worth taking in a BT army. Its just a question of finding the points to get them both in. As for the Emperors Champion, Well If you want to run a themed army (which I do) there is no reason not to take him.

As for the psychic stratagem, well...... I'm not sure its worth the CP. I mean, the chance to stop one (only one) psychic power per phase, on paper sounds great. But on the table top against any army that can include more than one psycher. Its worth drops off considerably.

@ Hymirl: I now feel your pain. It does feel weird to re roll the charge distance (a nice weird). I think that this is something the White Scars should be able to do. Where as the BT's should get a second attack, or ( Breathing Heavily ) re roll failed to hit in CC.

As for themed armies... most deffinitely yes. There will be NO!... Centurions, Whirlwinds or Dev Sqds in My army. When it comes to the Primaris Marines, I'm finding it hard to justify their acceptance into the BT army.... If you know about the Templar's then you'd know what their recruitment process is like. Any Primaris would have to undergo the same treatment to be accepted as a battle brother (Initiate), in my oppinion. And there is no Primaris Scouts, to fit with the tradition. So you can see the delima.

Summing up: While I still miss the Zeal move and the Vows of the old Templar codex, I can now see the Black Templars as being an army that can once again hold its own against any others.....NOW... BRING BACK THE HOLY HAND GRENADE.
Title: Re: Black Templars in 8th edition, thoughts?
Post by: Guildmage Arcas on October 24, 2017, 12:17:51 PM
I agree there is a bright side to Templars in the current rules, there are viable builds and the list can be as fluffy as the player is disciplined enough to make it.

On the primaris could you see them being considered a gift from Dorn sort of route. Instruments of his will in a way?
They are awesome models!

One question, St Celestine has been hanging out with templars in the fluff. (You can look at including her? As a side org chart obviously!)
Title: Re: Black Templars in 8th edition, thoughts?
Post by: Killersquid on October 24, 2017, 04:48:20 PM
I agree there is a bright side to Templars in the current rules, there are viable builds and the list can be as fluffy as the player is disciplined enough to make it.

On the primaris could you see them being considered a gift from Dorn sort of route. Instruments of his will in a way?
They are awesome models!

One question, St Celestine has been hanging out with templars in the fluff. (You can look at including her? As a side org chart obviously!)

Primaris marines are pretty lackluster ATM. Better off playing classic marines.

Celestine and the Templars did a lot of fighting together during the gathering storm, definitely a thematic combo. Celestine is ungodly powerful, so definitely a good choice in any imperial army.
Title: Re: Black Templars in 8th edition, thoughts?
Post by: Draggo Blacksun on October 24, 2017, 08:46:26 PM
@Hymirl: honestly, that would have to be the best way they would be accepted. A gift of experienced marines from Dorns own gene seed, from Roboute Guilliman. As an apology for forcing the codex upon a obviously loyal and dedicated legion.

As for including the Saint as an auxiliary force the Templars.... I honestly had not considered it to date... But following the current events how could I not. After all when 5th ed was announced , and the mention of allied forces was included. I was jumping at the chance of having a faith and fury list ( Templar and Sisters army ). Only for it to be swatted down by that ridiculous ally matrix..

@ Killersquid: really?  The only reason why I have not included any of the primaris so far is fluff. Had it not been for that, I would have gladly included these "new" marines in my force. Yes Celestine is OMG powerful... And her Gemini twins... Simply wow.
Title: Re: Black Templars in 8th edition, thoughts?
Post by: Killersquid on October 24, 2017, 08:55:20 PM
Yeah. They are too slow, and too expensive. The hellblasters and repulsor are not terrible, but that's about it. Definitely not a competitive force.