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The Armies of 40k => Imperial Forces => Topic started by: 0verKill_235 on July 18, 2017, 08:48:34 PM

Title: First AM/IG/ Little plastic mens list in 8th edition
Post by: 0verKill_235 on July 18, 2017, 08:48:34 PM
**Updated again***

Imperial Guard Pts 1500:  PR: 99

HQ-268 /17
KC Pask, Vanquisher w/ lascannon- 
Company Commander w/plasma pistol 

TROOPS   275/15
1st Heavy bolter, plasma gun
2nd Heavy bolter, plasma gun
3rd Heavy bolter, plasma gun
4rd Heavy bolter, plasma gun
5rd Heavy bolter, plasma gun

FAST 327 /19
2x Hellhounds w/ heavy bolters 
X3 Scout Sentinels w/ lascannons

HEAVY 630/48
LR SQUAD- 1xLRMBT w/ 1x lascanon, heavy bolter sponsons-190 1xLRMBT w/hull heavy bolter,  heavy bolter sponsons
1X LR DEM w 3x flamers
HEAVY WEAPONS SQUAD w/ mortars

Updated the list on 7/19. I left the old list as a reference.

Imperial Guard Pts 1498/1500:  PR: 98

HQ-263 /17
KC Pask, Vanquisher w/ lascannon- 
Company Commander w/ power sword, bolt pistol

ELITES-137/ 8
X5 Ratlings-
Command Squad w/ x4 melta guns 
Spec Weapons Squad-3x  flamers

TROOPS   180/9
1st auto cannon, grenade launcher
2nd auto cannon, grenade launcher
3rd auto cannon, grenade launcher 


FAST 327 /19
2x Hellhounds w/ heavy bolters 
X3 Scout Sentinels w/ lascannons

HEAVY 591/45
LR SQUAD- 1xLRMBT w/ 1x lascanon, heavy bolter sponsons-190 1xLRMBT w/hull heavy bolter,  heavy bolter sponsons
1X LR DEM w 3x flamers

Title: Re: First AM/IG/ Little plastic mens list in 8th edition
Post by: Wyddr on July 18, 2017, 09:06:56 PM
A couple questions: what's a PL? How can a Leman Russ take a lascannon *and* three heavy bolters? Since when are regular flamers an option for Leman Russ?

As a general rule, I would not say a Vanquisher is worth it in any configuration. I do like grenade launchers, though.
Title: Re: First AM/IG/ Little plastic mens list in 8th edition
Post by: 0verKill_235 on July 18, 2017, 09:15:19 PM
I edited the list for clarity. I am still getting used to the *new* list building rules.   
Title: Re: First AM/IG/ Little plastic mens list in 8th edition
Post by: Wyddr on July 19, 2017, 10:20:25 AM
A couple more discrepancies I'm noting before we get into it:

1) Your points are off in a number of places. Make sure you're actually buying the guns that go on the tanks and guys--there are no free weapons anymore. Ratlings, for instance, buy their sniper rifles these days.

2) The Platoon Commander, Special Weapon Squad, and Command Squad are all Elites choices now. It shouldn't affect your formation at all, but it's one of those little changes that throws people.

3) The Tank Squadron in heavy support: does the second Leman Russ have a hull gun? It has to, so you're either taking 3x Heavy bolters or 1x Lascannon/2x Heavy Bolters. It isn't clear which.

4) The Demolisher (that is what you mean by LRDEM, right?) mounts heavy flamers, not flamers (which might account for the points being off).

Now, as for the actual utility of the list:

1) There is really no reason to take a Lord Commissar as opposed to a regular commissar. There is also no reason to take a Platoon Commander as opposed to a Company Commander (assuming you have the HQ slots). I would swap the two. It will save you 10 points overall and be totally worth it.

2) As mentioned, the Vanquisher is a pretty terrible tank for the points. You're spending too much and getting too little. I'd switch this out for something like a Punisher, Standard Russ, or Executioner (though that last might explode). As a general rule, the Leman Russ is paying a lot of points to be hard to kill, but it is going to have a hard time earning its points back in terms of offense. The ones that perform best on that scale, in my estimation, are the Standard Russ, the Punisher, and the Executioner.

3) Autocannons and Grenade Launchers are pretty solid. If you can scare up an extra 15 points, making those autocannons into Missile Launchers might be the better buy, as those things are generally better at both anti-infantry and anti-tank than the AC is. Then again, the AC is better at killing middleweights (bikes, killa kans, Crisis Suits, etc.), so it might have some utility here depending on your metagame.

4) I'm torn on Hellhounds. The random number of shots is awful, but the auto-hits are nice. What I can't decide is if the cost of the tank overall justifies the offensive output. If you wind up testing this, let us know how it does.

5) Love Scout Sentinels and these look good.

6) The Demolisher is not an especially good buy for the points. The main gun is lackluster except against very specific targets (middleweights again) and for that reason not really worth the premium you pay over the other variants. Triple heavy flamers can go on any LR, so I'd pick the one that has the best main gun. The Punisher is particularly good for this role.

7) Haven't tried them yet, but Wyverns look great.   
Title: Re: First AM/IG/ Little plastic mens list in 8th edition
Post by: Lt_PliskinAJ on July 19, 2017, 10:22:29 AM
First off with the technical side:
PL, Command squad and SWS are elites.

The only troop options we have are:
- Infantry Squad
- Conscripts
- Scions

From what I have scene playing 8th guard squads don't really need a Lord Commissar. Since we are only 9 strong (heavy weapon takes 2 people) either we get barely winged or obliterated. The Standard Commissar does the job nearly as well for over 20 points cheaper. I have actually dropped Commissars completely from my list.

The PL only gives out one order. The CO gives 2 for only 10 points more. In my mind worth it. PLs are dead to me for this reason.

Be careful with the scout sentinel lascannons they want to move up but if you get them locked in combat you loose the lascannon and if you move them your shooting like an ork. It used to be beneficial to move to get a better angle on a vehicle but that is gone with toughness now. Personal pref but when I'm using sentinels now I'm only going multi-laser or H flamer.

This being said I think your list would be fun to play.
Title: Re: First AM/IG/ Little plastic mens list in 8th edition
Post by: 0verKill_235 on July 19, 2017, 10:47:26 PM
Thanks for the advice gents. I cleaned up the old list and dropped the Wyvern and the Lord Commissar. Let me know else I can do to improve it.

My current Pask tank is a Vanquisher and my Punisher is still in a box. :P   
Title: Re: First AM/IG/ Little plastic mens list in 8th edition
Post by: Wyddr on July 20, 2017, 10:10:57 AM
My general advice would be to get more infantry, honestly. Guard Infantry are a fantastic bargain these days. To that end, Heavy Weapon Squads are unbelievably cost efficient. Granted they're easy to kill and are slot-intensive to field, but a Spearhead of lascannon squads is guaranteed to make the enemy freak out and cost you virtually nothing (seriously--just over 200 points for 9 lascannons. 9!). 
Title: Re: First AM/IG/ Little plastic mens list in 8th edition
Post by: 0verKill_235 on July 20, 2017, 06:22:14 PM
Funny you mentioned adding more infantry. I just finised revising by dropped all the elites and put the points into two more squads of infantry and a HWT mortar squad.
Title: Re: First AM/IG/ Little plastic mens list in 8th edition
Post by: Killersquid on July 20, 2017, 08:21:20 PM
You might even consider a huge blob or two of conscripts with a commissar nearby. This is incredibly cheap, and they make amazing objective holders and a bubble-wrap for your other units.
Title: Re: First AM/IG/ Little plastic mens list in 8th edition
Post by: Wyddr on July 20, 2017, 09:58:03 PM
You might even consider a huge blob or two of conscripts with a commissar nearby. This is incredibly cheap, and they make amazing objective holders and a bubble-wrap for your other units.

Yeah, if you've got the models, these can be huge. Especially with all the alpha strike shenanigans and first turn assaults running around out there.