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Main => General 40k => Topic started by: magenb on July 5, 2017, 07:07:47 PM

Title: Codexes on the way
Post by: magenb on July 5, 2017, 07:07:47 PM
Your Codex is Coming – Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/your-codex-is-coming-july-5gw-homepage-post-1/)

Soo 10 before Christmas... kind of sounds like they will all be marine flavours.

Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Blazinghand on July 5, 2017, 07:24:20 PM
Exciting news. Looks like a lot of what's going on—custom strategems, extra rules for different groups, etc—will be significant boosts in power and flexibility. I wonder how my xenos will match up to these new marines?
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Cavalier on July 5, 2017, 07:57:08 PM
Glad I didn't get Imperial Index 1... I would have been fine coasting on the indexes for awhile. Personally I'd rather wait awhile and get a feel for the game before codices started coming out. If only for GW to amass as much info as possible before redressing the balance.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on July 5, 2017, 09:53:54 PM
This is good news. I'm excited they are going to flat out change the rules/points on units when the codex's come out. Some things are a bit silly right now.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: magenb on July 5, 2017, 10:57:32 PM
given all the flavours of Marines are getting their won books, I kind of wounder how they are going to do Eldar now. Maybe Ynnari get their own book, which just lists the units it can field rather than one great big book?


I hope they give the people who purchased the indexes a discount.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Irisado on July 6, 2017, 05:34:57 AM
I had a feeling that GW would pull a stunt like this, so I'm happy that I decided not to buy any of the indices.  I note that they're essentially bringing back an approach that they had in third edition with rules for chapters, craftworlds, and Chaos legions.  I'll be interested to see how they implement these ideas.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Katamari Damacy on July 6, 2017, 05:52:56 AM
I don't like the idea of having books for all the subfactions tbh. While this is another great opportunity to milk fans of insignificant (Chaos) Marine Chapters, I would hate to bring several books to a game just to have all the relevant rules with me. I'm also not interested in fielding "fluffy" Craftworld lists. They usually turn out to be simple Spam lists (Ranger Spam in 3rd, "Saim-Hann" bike spam lists...).

I miss books like 2nd Ed. Codex Chaos; tomes of knowledge, which featured everything you needed and offered some decent fluff instead of what we get these days. I'm quite happy with the Eldar Index atm and I would welcome the idea one huge book for all the Eldar Factions.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Irisado on July 6, 2017, 06:00:01 AM
This is why I remarked upon how I would be interested to see how GW goes about doing this, as, like you, I have concerns about how they are going to balance a number of these factions.  Hopefully, the same mistakes that were made in third edition will not be repeated this time around.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Saim-Dann on July 6, 2017, 06:08:49 AM
Right there with ya, Katamari!
My order for the indexes haven't even arrived yet and their telling us THIS. So much for a new GW. Will wait and see before I throw a complete hissy fit though... Thanks for the heads up Magenb!
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: dog_of_war on July 6, 2017, 08:28:27 AM
All my indexes just arrived in the post today, and I was not thrilled to hear this news. GW must have some pretty big kahunas to tell players that bought their indexes that they'll be obsolete within five months, so shortly after their release. My only hope is that the codex will only be a revision of points and an addition of command points and psychic powers, as they say in their posts and not dramatic changes to an individual units rules. As I'm planning on playing power levels going forward, if the actual unit rules/stats don't change, I won't have a hissy fit, as Saim-dann suggests. I'm still glad I bought the indexes as I was able to get the rules for every army I own and any army I may play with only three books. I just pray GW doesn't pull a switch like the elder codex from 6th to 7th, where I barely had time to read it, let only play many games before it was obsolete.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on July 6, 2017, 02:04:19 PM
...It's not been a secret that Codex's will be out. Also, the index's are going to be very valid for a few years until the codex's are out.

The index's have always been a stop-gap to get folks playing while waiting for the rules to come out. They are super cheap, and contain multiple factions.

It's actually great for the codex's that folks will be playing with the rules already, it's extra playtesting from the whole community, which I think is fantastic for the changes that the codex's will have to points/rules. Gives me a lot of hope that the game is going to be the most balanced edition yet.

This is why I remarked upon how I would be interested to see how GW goes about doing this, as, like you, I have concerns about how they are going to balance a number of these factions.  Hopefully, the same mistakes that were made in third edition will not be repeated this time around.

Subfactions will be in the codex's. White scars and such will be in the space marine codex, as well as the traitor legions in the CSM book.

I think that the Age of Sigmar Battletomes will be a good indicator on what the codex's will be like. A few new relics, Army rules, powers and some small extra rules (and restrictions) for factions in the faction.

Makes sense that Death Guard and Thousand Sons will get their own books, as they have a wealth of unique units outside of the CSM book, like the blood angels and dark angels do.



Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Irisado on July 6, 2017, 02:13:31 PM
You're missing the point.  A number of the codices will be released in a matter of weeks, not a number of years, and GW could easily have posted temporary rules as datasheets for all the units online for free before replacing them with a codex, so the argument about having to pay to play test doesn't hold any water.  If GW were truly interested in play testing over profit they would have opted for free rules.

It is rather devious, in my opinion, to release a series of index books, with the implication that they are going to be used for at least a reasonable period of time, only to announce, soon after, that the first codices will be released in the very near future.  GW has every right to make money on its products, but this is taking that philosophy too far and I, for one, do not like it.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on July 6, 2017, 02:25:50 PM
You're missing the point.  A number of the codices will be released in a matter of weeks, not a number of years, and GW could easily have posted temporary rules as datasheets for all the units online for free before replacing them with a codex, so the argument about having to pay to play test doesn't hold any water.  If GW were truly interested in play testing over profit they would have opted for free rules.

It is rather devious, in my opinion, to release a series of index books, with the implication that they are going to be used for at least a reasonable period of time, only to announce, soon after, that the first codices will be released in the very near future.  GW has every right to make money on its products, but this is taking that philosophy too far and I, for one, do not like it.

No I'm not.

So, when one codex is out, all the index's are invalid? The index's are going to be relevant until every specific faction gets a book. That'll take probably two years, so the books will be relevant for a while. They could be free datasheets, but I don't care. The index's are very cheap, I didn't mind spending the money to have the books.

I think this is great news, I like getting new rules for the game I like to play.

If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to buy the books, or to play the game.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on July 6, 2017, 02:35:29 PM
Not everyone plays more than one army. Not everyone wanted a book with multiple fractions and instead just wanted their own one. Not everyone is overjoyed that the book they bought recently will soon be out of date and require another one.

Many of us did buy multiple indexes. Many of us didn't.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Cavalier on July 6, 2017, 03:48:45 PM
Yeah I'm mixed on the whole thing. I picked up a number of books like Xenos 1 and FW Xenos to play my army right away. I'm thrilled I didn't have to wait to get my entire army up and running within a month of the new edition being released including all my exotic FW stuff.

However, I bought Chaos so I could continue building my army and have a good idea how to complete my World Eaters.

I'm thrilled I was able to essentially get codices for the price of a single 7th ed dex for my Eldar... but I'm a little hacked off I'm gonna have to buy a new Chaos book so soon.

If Eldar and Chaos come out close to each other its gonna feel like a major cash sink just to get the rules. Which hurts my ability to collect new units, since I have a small 40k budget.

But at the same time I'm happy things are going to be evolving so quickly.

I guess I'm of two minds on the whole thing...
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: magenb on July 6, 2017, 05:46:36 PM
You're missing the point.  A number of the codices will be released in a matter of weeks, not a number of years, and GW could easily have posted temporary rules as datasheets for all the units online for free before replacing them with a codex, so the argument about having to pay to play test doesn't hold any water.  If GW were truly interested in play testing over profit they would have opted for free rules.

It is rather devious, in my opinion, to release a series of index books, with the implication that they are going to be used for at least a reasonable period of time, only to announce, soon after, that the first codices will be released in the very near future.  GW has every right to make money on its products, but this is taking that philosophy too far and I, for one, do not like it.

Further to this, given how quickly the codexes are being sent out, they would have been mostly finished by the time 8th ed dropped, so would have known most of the marines would have been released within 6 months. GW could have easily given people a time line, so they could decide to wait. Instead it was a calculated move to suck as much cash out of you as they could. They could have made the digital version for free or minor amount ($5) to cover costs.

On the flip side, did you notice the comment around new models being released with some of the codex...
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Blazinghand on July 6, 2017, 06:23:29 PM
I play 3 Armies, split across 3 Indexes. Craftworld Eldar, Orks, and IG. Getting the Tyranid or Tau rules along with my Orks didn't really feel that helpful. the Harlequin and DE rules along with my Craftworld Eldar rules might hypothetically be useful if I owned those models, but iI don't. I haven't even bought an Imperium index yet.

I'm glad that my Xenos armies got a rules update right when the edition launched. That's nice!  That being said, if I were a Space Marines player and bought an index and saw the codex coming out like a month later, and it was my only army, I'd be pretty let down.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Lorizael on July 6, 2017, 06:37:04 PM
The books are £15. In general books don't have a high profit margin. Releasing a bunch of books so that every single player can play their army for however long it takes before their Codex is released, is not some super-sneaky way of taking advantage of people and making money...
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on July 6, 2017, 06:46:56 PM
and the cost to an average marine player who wants to continue playing their army a little over a month since launch will be an additional ...?
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Lorizael on July 6, 2017, 07:01:00 PM
Or they could just carry on using the Index. Same as the Grand alliance books for AoS; there's no requirement to stop using them and move to your army's Battletome.

It is annoying, it's an extra £15 that no one really wants to spend. But it's probably a difficult situation to figure out with releases too. Personally I would wait to release Codices next year. I was expecting an AoS paced release of codices (slow!). But this is how it is. I bought 4 of the Indexes, I'll have to buy around 10 Codices over the next year or so too. If I want to. I may not bother straight away.
Still, it's not some devious plan or stunt...
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Saim-Dann on July 6, 2017, 07:08:03 PM
15 pound to you guys?
40 dollars for us. 120 dollars for the three armies... on top of the 120 dollars already spent on the three indexes. 240 dollars just for rules when only half the books will be used is-not-ok!
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Irisado on July 6, 2017, 07:12:33 PM
No I'm not.

So, when one codex is out, all the index's are invalid? The index's are going to be relevant until every specific faction gets a book. That'll take probably two years, so the books will be relevant for a while. They could be free datasheets, but I don't care. The index's are very cheap, I didn't mind spending the money to have the books.

Where's the evidence that it's going to take two years?  The codices are being released far more quickly this time around, as the news published today indicates.  Even if you are correct, GW could have made the release of eighth coincide with the earliest codices at least and published everything else as temporary free datasheets.  Such a move would have been much more honest in my opinion.

Quote
I think this is great news, I like getting new rules for the game I like to play.

So long as the gaps between paid rules releases are reasonable, I don't have a problem with it.  The problem starts when it is a requirement to pay for rules over a very short space of time, in order to be able to play.  Consider that the change from sixth to seventh happened after just two years and combine that with the latest swift turnaround in rules and it's a problem.

Quote
If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to buy the books, or to play the game.

Very true, however, that in no way invalidates my point about the actual practice that I'm commenting on.

The books are £15. In general books don't have a high profit margin. Releasing a bunch of books so that every single player can play their army for however long it takes before their Codex is released, is not some super-sneaky way of taking advantage of people and making money...

If the profit margin of the books is so insignificant, why not just upload all the rules for each unit online as was done for Age of Sigmar and just have the codices for people who want extra material, such as the background?  If, as you say, this was not a sneaky way to make more money, why was it not made transparent that the first codices would be released so quickly after the indices were published?

It would have been much better to publish all the temporary rules as free datasheets and then released the codices.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Saim-Dann on July 6, 2017, 07:26:01 PM
Irisado's comment has made me think, the full codex's could be the same rules we recieved in the indexes. Just lots of fluff/pictures/painting schemes added. The rule book is like that. It's a big honk'n book with just 12 pages of rules.

If this is the case, (and we'll be watching Utube channels book reviews to make sure), I don't have a problem with it. They can sell the fluff codex's to those who want them and I'll be happy with my indexes. I truely hope this is the case. If not... hissy fits will ensue. 
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Irisado on July 6, 2017, 07:40:35 PM
I'd be astonished if there are no changes in the codices, be they to power levels and points, or unit rules and stats, or a combination of both.  This process is very reminiscent of third edition, where a lot of changes were made from the army list book to the codices.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Saim-Dann on July 6, 2017, 07:51:42 PM
G'day Irisado!
I figure the same, mate. Was just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. I don't like the emotions this news evoked within. Have no intention of feeling like this for the months it will take for us to review the codex's.

So for now, as far as I'm concerned, there's a 50/50 chance of it being the same rules just extra fluff. Like the rule book, Irisado. There's no difference to the rules in the book or the free download... Fingers crossed hey?   
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on July 6, 2017, 08:43:48 PM
GW said on their community page all the major codexes would be released around well over a year so close to two years sounds reasonable. The same release also mentioned new material to spend command points and warlord jazz, psychic powers, the usual stuff. So not just an adjusted repeat of the index material with fluffy stuff attached.

Lori - You can not tell me, especially you, that GW doesn't have a publication schedule in action for the next 3-12 months as standard. *They knew* how soon codexes would come after the release date. June is usually new edition month so that's easy. After that is their choice. It's not a devious scheme, it's bad pool and doesn't inspire the level of trust they've been asking recently. One notification (not on beslubbering Facebook) that "marines will be first in July-August" and we wouldn't be making these frowny faces.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: dog_of_war on July 6, 2017, 10:27:48 PM
This certainly sounds like a money grab to me. Don't like your seventh edition codex? Try one of the three or five supplements we will release over the next year. You're not happy with your army? Well you're in luck, all those supplements you sunk your money into just to get formations last year is now obsolete in the new edition and guess what? Those formations you asked for don't exist anymore. I might bet my lucky squig that the first new codex is going to have something very much the same as a formation, just called something differently.

With what I bought, I now have new rules for every army I play or may play. That's it. I'm out. You want to try selling me something else now? You can't have my money.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on July 6, 2017, 11:03:43 PM
This certainly sounds like a money grab to me. Don't like your seventh edition codex? Try one of the three or five supplements we will release over the next year. You're not happy with your army? Well you're in luck, all those supplements you sunk your money into just to get formations last year is now obsolete in the new edition and guess what? Those formations you asked for don't exist anymore. I might bet my lucky squig that the first new codex is going to have something very much the same as a formation, just called something differently.

With what I bought, I now have new rules for every army I play or may play. That's it. I'm out. You want to try selling me something else now? You can't have my money.

They did offer full refunds for folks who bought 7th edition codex's 8 months before launch. They didn't need to do that.

The story in all the suppliments books are key parts of the new 40k lore. The rules were a fun bonus, and all the scenarios are still fully usuable.

Also, you can still play any of the formations with the detachments in 8th, just no free rules, which is not a bad thing.



Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: nesbitt_bub1 on July 7, 2017, 04:47:33 AM
I'm happy to have indexes that will be replaced.

If you think back to the Black codex era, There was a long period of crossover from one edition to the other. Meaning Erata, Poor rules, Rules that didn't work, And models that made no sense.

This edition is so radically different that the previous books are obsolete and don't offer any rules that make sense in the new edition. I don't see it as a money grab at all, It's actually a kindness. They have come up with a way to include everyone in the new rules. They kept production costs low, soft cover, Very limited fluff, limited image printing.

The other thing I thing is for a small amount of money you now have the option to buy 4 books and have a total overview of all armies in the warhammer 40K universe. For this reason the indexes will still be relevant all the way up to the exit of this edition. Granted the rules will have moved on a little, but the core and feel of the units, the function and wargear, and how they operate on a battlefield will for most core units be very close to the Codex spec.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Lorizael on July 7, 2017, 04:52:42 AM
Indices don't get made obsolete by Codices. The Codex will just offer extra options and upgrades (and maybe a few rule/point tweaks, yes). Again, look at AoS as an example; Battletomes have not made the Grand Alliance books or the Legacy Compendiums obsolete.

In the end, every publication is an option and is just giving you different ways to play. People complained about 'bloat' in 7th and the dozens of books you needed to play- these were all just options, very little was needed or required.
Make your choices about your involvment with your own hobby. You're never being forced into buying anything. I mean look at Iri, must have been 20 years since you've bought new minis eh? ;) Pretty much an irrelevance to the hobby as a whole, but you do you.

Grim, yes there is a publication schedule. And it is subject to change at short notice. 8th Edition was put back a month or 2 to put it into the new financial year. Which is why May was devoid of releases and now everything is crammed together in a short space of time.



This edition is so radically different that the previous books are obsolete and don't offer any rules that make sense in the new edition. I don't see it as a money grab at all, It's actually a kindness. They have come up with a way to include everyone in the new rules. They kept production costs low, soft cover, Very limited fluff, limited image printing.


This!
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Katamari Damacy on July 7, 2017, 04:55:51 AM
It wasn't months though, weeks  ;)

And the "story" in the Gathering Storm was so poorly written, I didn't even bother finish reading them.

When you release Indexes, knowing they'll be obsolete within a couple of months, the money-grab accusation is valid. I was hoping GW would take the time to hear what people have to say about the Indexes and (especially) point values. There are a lot of units/wargear with very strange point costs and I'm afraid we wont see them fixed (see Interceptor Squads, VWSB...) leaving us with "dead" codex entries AGAIN.

I'd certainly be pissed of if I payed Aussie-Dollars for these books. It's beyond me how people can afford to play the game down there.  :o
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Irisado on July 7, 2017, 05:42:39 AM
GW said on their community page all the major codexes would be released around well over a year so close to two years sounds reasonable.

Thanks for this.  It is reasonable to conclude that two years will probably be the time period in that case.  I took a look at the time taken to release all the third edition codices, since this was the last time that there was such a big shake up, and while the majority was released in less than two years, a few did take two years to come out or a little longer.

Quote
The same release also mentioned new material to spend command points and warlord jazz, psychic powers, the usual stuff. So not just an adjusted repeat of the index material with fluffy stuff attached.

Exactly.  There will be changes and I would be surprised if the alterations do not go further than this.

Indices don't get made obsolete by Codices. The Codex will just offer extra options and upgrades (and maybe a few rule/point tweaks, yes). Again, look at AoS as an example; Battletomes have not made the Grand Alliance books or the Legacy Compendiums obsolete.

In the end, every publication is an option and is just giving you different ways to play. People complained about 'bloat' in 7th and the dozens of books you needed to play- these were all just options, very little was needed or required.
Make your choices about your involvment with your own hobby. You're never being forced into buying anything.

If the rules tweaks make significant internal balance improvements or adjustments to units to tone them down or enhance them though, it becomes very undesirable to play with the original rules.  Based on previous evidence, GW will make enough changes in the right areas to make it very difficult for players to stuck with the rules in the index books.

The argument that every publication is an option only goes so far.  For it to be valid, it assumes that everyone who you play against has the same approach to the game as you do.  In view of the diverse nature of players even within small gaming groups, this is unlikely, so unless you only have one opponent who shares your beliefs and philosophy about the game, you end up being sucked into the bloated book and rules environment, in order to be able to play, even if you, as an individual, do not choose to buy any of this material yourself.

Simply looking through army lists on the forum during seventh edition highlighted how much of a problem this was.  Even if I had been playing, there was no way I could review the majority of lists posted because so many formations and army types came from sources that I knew nothing about.  In the past, players would be choosing standard army lists from a single codex in the vast majority of cases.  That was simple and straightforward.  Seventh edition torpedoed this approach once and for all, and the issue with eighth is that if there are going to players using index rules, codex rules, and then other rules on top of that, such as Forgeworld, all combined with different army/mission design types (e.g. Dawn of War and Maelstrom) there is still going to be a significant amount of bloating and confusion, at least for me.

So, faced with all of this, say I were hypothetically to go down to Warhammer World to try to get a game, what am I actually going to be playing?  Which rules is my opponent going to use?  What's the mission going to be?  How is their list constructed?  Do I need to select the same methods for the game to be within the rules, valid, or fair?

At least if GW had said here are the index rules for everyone for free which will be replaced by codices in due course it would have been clear and everyone would have been operating to the same set of parameters of the armies at least.  I am still waiting for an answer as to why they couldn't adopt this approach.  That way, I'd have no problem with them charging for codices and releasing them so soon after the indices being published.  GW knows its own publication schedule, they knew that at least some of the codices would be released very quickly, so charging for indices, some of which are very quickly going to be superseded, is, in my view devious.  If devious is too strong, it's a very calculated move if nothing else.

I know that your argument is that the indices are not being replaced and that the codices are an alternative, but I refer you back to my point above about this.  I have serious misgivings about this whole process and the lack of transparency accompanying it.  I'm lucky, in that I haven't bought any of the indices, so I haven't lost out, but I feel bad for those who have lost out. GW knew exactly what they were doing and they didn't have to do it this way.

Quote
I mean look at Iri, must have been 20 years since you've bought new minis eh? ;) Pretty much an irrelevance to the hobby as a whole, but you do you.

This is why you must never be put in charge of auditing :P.  A friend bought me a Zombie Dragon a couple of years ago and I bought quite a few Eldar models for sixth edition, as well as some Daemons and Thousand Sons.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Saim-Dann on July 7, 2017, 06:29:04 AM
G'day Katamari!
Thanks for the empathy for the Aussies, mate. Yes it can be a struggle. Am betting we have smaller numbers of armies here.

Hi Isisado!
No; your first thought of, "devious", was the right call.

1:If the index's were for us to play test so they could iron the bugs out for the codex's, then I agree with you. Our play testing will be improving their profit margin so we should have been given the index's for free. (I'm sure you read the all out cost to Oz in my above reply).   

2:If giving out the index's for free wasn't in their budget, then at least a heads up as to what they had planned would have been showing more respect to their customers.

3:Changing the rules/points in the slightest makes the index's redundant. We can't see what we're face by browsing through the rules of our competitor's index if the rules are different to their codex.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: dog_of_war on July 7, 2017, 08:15:22 AM
I used to find it hard to believe that a company that has been developing rules for more than twenty years would make so many typos and need so many revisions for books that they spend months developing. I thought it was ludicrous that an index would need corrections in an faq release so shortly after release, especially since they've been bragging about how many experts have been play-testing these rules for months. Until this news came out.

The rule writers at GW are either incredibly incompetent or they know exactly what they are doing. Ever topic I've read on this forum that is titled "this unit is dead" the discussion always revolves around, why did they change the rules to make this unit unplayable, when they had so many top level tournament organizers play test the rules for months. This has been seen time and again by this company. GW has always been less concerned with balance of the game than with selling miniatures. Every rule edition and every new codex that comes out is designed to shift players to less desired armies, forcing those that play and want at least the chance to win the need to start new armies. It's also designed to bring old players back to the fold by making their traditional armies playable again. It's no mistake that orks, guard, and nids are now very playable armies, while eldar and tau are much less so. Yes, I'll hear the argument that we just haven't cracked the new code for these armies and they will be dominant again, but that does not explain the obvious nerfs to what made these armies playable in the first place.

I have absolutely no qualms about GWs trying to strengthen some armies to make them more popular and desirable, but when they intentionally flub a rule or a unit to sway people away from a once popular army and force them to take up another if they wish to even have a chance at being somewhat competitive with your opponent, this I have a problem with.

You cannot brag about how much development and play-testing went into a game and then deliver a product with obvious flaws to the once powerful armies, release faq changes mere weeks after, and then days after that broadcast that everything will be fixed once your codex comes out in the next few months. Again I say, either gross incompetence or calculated decision. I am leaning towards the later.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on July 7, 2017, 09:58:16 AM
Folks just like to look on the negative side of things, rather then look for any positive.

I've been playing a lot of games of 8th, against a variety of armies. For the first time in a long time (probably 3rd edition), each army feels viable. I've had tough games against eldar, grey knights, and everything in between.

Folks complain that eldar and tau are 'nerfed' as you can't just net list the books anymore. For good reason. Units like riptides and windriders needed to be toned down, for the health of the game. Neither unit is unplayable either. Scatter bikes still put out a punishing wealth of fire, and riptides (although now no longer able to kill a whole army single handedly), are as tough as a landraider and still put out very good firepower.

The change to 8th has been fantastic for the health of the game, all the factions will be seen on tables again (in all levels of play). The game is way easier to play, and games are now a lot shorter and more decisive. I find it really hard to see this as anything but a positive change from 7th.

Also, the system of index's to codex's is the exact same process Age of Sigmar is going through, and it's working great for that game.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on July 7, 2017, 03:33:26 PM
Indices don't get made obsolete by Codices.

From: Codexes: Your Questions Answered – Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/)

Quote
What’s the difference between a codex and an index book?
The indexes let you play with your Warhammer 40,000 army until the codex for your faction is released. The idea being that the rules for units in codexes eventually supersede the rules for them presented in the index books.

So yeah, nah. I know you could always choose to play index armies in the same way I could still choose to play Rogue Trader. Doesn't help with competitive play. There was a deliberate communication breakdown here.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Blazinghand on July 7, 2017, 04:10:10 PM
I heard a story of a guy at my game store who was pirating the Space Marines index this whole time. Now he feels justified continuing to do so until the codex comes out.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on July 7, 2017, 04:12:33 PM
Nah, that's still uncool.  ;)

This is in that two wrongs category of things.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on July 7, 2017, 04:34:00 PM
Nah, that's still uncool.  ;)

This is in that two wrongs category of things.

I don't mind pirated copies and stuff, but at least print it out, or use a tablet. I have little patience for people who try to read pirated rules off their phone.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Cavalier on July 7, 2017, 04:37:19 PM
@Killersquid- I hear ya bud. While I am slightly irritated with the quickness of the codex release, I'll take this approach 10 times out of 10 over what we had previously. I don't think its anything devious myself... the new GW is trying to remedy its reputation and IMO are doing a brilliant job.

Despite being bugged SLIGHTLY that they are coming out so quick... I gotta admit I'm hyped to see whats coming.

I had this weird feeling after the game + indices dropped where my hype completley dissipated... and I was wondering why. Then it struck me... I was missing out on that old school anticipation of the codices and all the new stuff that accompanies them. So I'm pumped to see whats coming now that I've thought about it for awhile and I'm wondering if their will be unique army stratagems and all the rest...

Plus the things have not been FAQ'd will probably be addressed in the codices and I'm wondering what all that'll be like.

I'm still over the moon positive about everything, despite the quickness of the codices
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Saim-Dann on July 7, 2017, 08:32:33 PM
G'day, Cavalier!
Please read this question with an enquiring tone, not negative. How much are the index's/codex's in the U.S?
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on July 7, 2017, 08:39:27 PM
Indexes are $25. Codex price unsure as not available for preorder. Rulebook is $60.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Saim-Dann on July 7, 2017, 08:58:31 PM
G'day Grim!
Is that U.S or New Zealand. Cause there 40 bucks here. 98 for the rule book.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on July 7, 2017, 09:01:02 PM
US

I'll bet the Codex's will be the same price as the AOS Battletomes, so probably $35-40 USD a book (depending on size).
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on July 7, 2017, 09:07:54 PM
Yes, As KS said US. In Kiwibucks the indexes would be a rabbit, the rulebook a lamb, and the codex probably a muttonbird or at least the whole tui.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Saim-Dann on July 7, 2017, 09:26:38 PM
Thanks both of you!
I like your humour, Grim. A rabbit... Bwahaha!!
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Lorizael on July 8, 2017, 08:22:14 PM
The argument that every publication is an option only goes so far.  For it to be valid, it assumes that everyone who you play against has the same approach to the game as you do.  In view of the diverse nature of players even within small gaming groups, this is unlikely, so unless you only have one opponent who shares your beliefs and philosophy about the game, you end up being sucked into the bloated book and rules environment, in order to be able to play, even if you, as an individual, do not choose to buy any of this material yourself.

Not at all. There was very, very little that added/superseded the core rules. If you were playing a pick up game, your choices are pretty much, do we play Eternal War or Maelstrom missions? Both of which are in the core rulebook. Expansions such as Planetstrike or Cities of Death used different army building templates and were the type of game you would arrange in advance.
Pick up games just play straight out of the rulebook. So rulebook + codex was all that was ever necessary, and all I used for most of my 12 or so armies, whoever and wherever I played. Occasionally I'd add in a campaign book or similar for a particular formation I chose to use.
Personally I'm looking forward to Codices, campaign books and supplements for 8th; anything that gives more options is great. And with 8th's easier way of playing, even better!

So yeah, nah. I know you could always choose to play index armies in the same way I could still choose to play Rogue Trader. Doesn't help with competitive play. There was a deliberate communication breakdown here.

Yeah, communication is interesting. The Community team say interesting things. Occasionally things that directly contradict internal retail briefings and such...

You're right, for competetive play, everyone needs to be on the same page. But competetive play is far outnumbered by the ammount of casual play that goes on. Competetive is not the end-goal.
Looking to AoS again, most tournament packs I've read allow the use of Legacy, Grand Alliance and Battletome warscrolls in lists...
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Blazinghand on July 9, 2017, 05:42:32 AM
I wonder to what extent GW makes money off books vs minis? I've definitely spent a lot more on minis than I have on books over the years. In some sense, though, the books might be "more expensive" for them to make, since they can probably just keep using the same Eldar Falcon molds to make more Falcons, but it takes a lot of time and effort and playtesting etc to come up with the 8e rulebook. At least from a salary perspective, probably more effort and time goes into the books than the boxes of sprues they sell.

I always figured their business model would be best off as "the books are cheap, and the goal is to get you to buy models" but perhaps they want to make money on the books as well.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Irisado on July 9, 2017, 05:45:06 AM
Not at all. There was very, very little that added/superseded the core rules. If you were playing a pick up game, your choices are pretty much, do we play Eternal War or Maelstrom missions? Both of which are in the core rulebook. Expansions such as Planetstrike or Cities of Death used different army building templates and were the type of game you would arrange in advance.
Pick up games just play straight out of the rulebook. So rulebook + codex was all that was ever necessary, and all I used for most of my 12 or so armies, whoever and wherever I played. Occasionally I'd add in a campaign book or similar for a particular formation I chose to use.
Personally I'm looking forward to Codices, campaign books and supplements for 8th; anything that gives more options is great. And with 8th's easier way of playing, even better!

Seventh edition was nowhere near that simple, owing to the myriad of formations, alliances, and expansion pieces that a lot of players would bring to the table.  However, this is drifting to far off topic, so there's nothing more that I can say about that here.

Turning back to eighth edition codices, this idea of choice is problematic, since there is such a thing as excessive choice. I'm not looking to choose between an index or a codex in order to play the game.  There should be one book for every army and that's it.  That way everyone is competing on the same playing field, there's no confusion, and nobody ends up feeling as though they are using a less well developed set of rules.  There is already more than enough choice with the different ways to play the game.  There doesn't need to be any more.

GW could have made all the index rules free.  GW could have uploaded all the unit datasheets for free.  That way, charging for the codices so soon after the release of the indices is a lot more reasonable.  Your argument is that the profit margins on books are so small anyway, so if this is the case why didn't they upload free datasheets or make the rules for each index available for free?
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on July 9, 2017, 01:35:28 PM
Yeah, communication is interesting. The Community team say interesting things. Occasionally things that directly contradict internal retail briefings and such...

Then in the words of a famous philosopher - you lot really need to sort your amphetamine parrot out. This is all on you guys and the only ones than can fix and/or make sure it doesn't happen again are the lot of you.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Lorizael on July 9, 2017, 01:56:53 PM
Then in the words of a famous philosopher - you lot really need to sort your amphetamine parrot out. This is all on you guys and the only ones than can fix and/or make sure it doesn't happen again are the lot of you.

 ;D ::)
One day... Really, they all just need to listen to me more...

Seventh edition was nowhere near that simple, owing to the myriad of formations, alliances, and expansion pieces that a lot of players would bring to the table.  However, this is drifting to far off topic, so there's nothing more that I can say about that here.

It really was that simple. Take it from someone who actually plays games on a daily basis.
There's rarely anything more you can say about gaming related things. You didn't play 7th, so your opinion is barely relevant. And it's always tainted by your over-arching negativity.

Turning back to eighth edition codices, this idea of choice is problematic, since there is such a thing as excessive choice. I'm, not looking to choose between an index or a codex in order to play the game.  There should be one book for every army and that's it.  That way everyone is competing on the same playing field, there's no confusion, and nobody ends up feeling as though they are using a less well developed set of rules.  There is already more than enough choice with the different ways to play the game.  There doesn't need to be any more.

There should always be more choice. It's what moves the hobby on and stops gaming becoming stagnant.
One book per army? So would you prefer to pay for an updated Codex whenever new models were released, or just not rules for new models..?
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on July 9, 2017, 02:01:41 PM
Ah, so we're stuck in a "who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes" scenario. Right. That's that sorted.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Lorizael on July 9, 2017, 02:06:47 PM
Ah, so we're stuck in a "who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes" scenario. Right. That's that sorted.

?? :o
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Irisado on July 9, 2017, 02:56:59 PM
It really was that simple. Take it from someone who actually plays games on a daily basis.
There's rarely anything more you can say about gaming related things. You didn't play 7th, so your opinion is barely relevant. And it's always tainted by your over-arching negativity.

Disagreeing with you doesn't equate to negativity.  If I didn't enjoy this hobby, I wouldn't be here ;).  You have a very strong interest to present the product positively at all times.  There is, therefore, a strong element of partiality in everything you post and you're bound to present GW in as positive light as possible.  As a result, I prefer to formulate my own views, based on my reading of topics and having been on this forum on a daily basis, viewing all the topics, even when I haven't been playing.

Quote
There should always be more choice. It's what moves the hobby on and stops gaming becoming stagnant.
One book per army? So would you prefer to pay for an updated Codex whenever new models were released, or just not rules for new models..?

Always having more of something leads to the law of diminishing returns coming into play.  It's extremely difficult, and I would argue impossible, to add more elements of choice without also increasing the layers of complexity.  This is actually one reason why the eighth edition rulebook and indices have been streamlined.  As for stagnation, it depends on the edition of the game.  Fifth edition stagnated very quickly, but sixth came and went so quickly, there was no chance for it to grow remotely stale.  In addition, I've played wargames where the rules either do not change or only ever have minor updates, so there are different schools of thought on this.

My preferences are simple.  I want fairness.  The approach that GW adopted, on this occasion, simply isn't fair to those people who purchased the indices.

Finally, allow me to pose the crucial question to you again:

GW could have made all the index rules free.  GW could have uploaded all the unit datasheets for free.  That way, charging for the codices so soon after the release of the indices is a lot more reasonable.  Your argument is that the profit margins on books are so small anyway, so if this is the case why didn't they upload free datasheets or make the rules for each index available for free?

I understand that you're reluctant to answer this, but I would like to hear your personal answer, rather than an echoing of the corporate line :).
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Lt_PliskinAJ on July 10, 2017, 10:05:29 AM
I figured they would come out with proper codexes soon but like most people I wanted to play now. I picked up imperial 1/2 and FW forces of AM for my DKOK as digital copies. Saved a few dollars and got them all for 20 each.

Was I expecting proper rules this early, actually yeah I was. This is the same company that made the knight titan book that has 2 data sheets in it. I'm not minding the indexes as it will also probably help people new to the game as they can look at several armies in one book and then decide.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: SKEETERGOD on July 12, 2017, 11:36:49 AM
I for one will be buying the ork codex when it comes out. The new Xenos 2 book left out quite a few ork units that I use(d). For one my 'ard boys have ceased to exist as well as my looted wagons and a few other things that were a lot of fun and the reason I play orks.

Unlike others (that I perceive take this game waaaaay to serious) I play for fun. I play orks because we never lose. (if you don't get the reference then head on over to the ork board for enlightenment) Also the orks were great at looting other armies stuff. Thus the looted wagon, etc.

(note: click on picture for full size view)
(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv27/Ralston1/Saint%20Snik/th_Meka-Dread-b006_zpsc195efba.jpg) (http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Ralston1/media/Saint%20Snik/Meka-Dread-b006_zpsc195efba.jpg.html)
 (http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv27/Ralston1/SkullHammer/th_OrkTrucks006.jpg) (http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Ralston1/media/SkullHammer/OrkTrucks006.jpg.html)  (http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv27/Ralston1/SkullHammer/th_OrkTrucks009.jpg) (http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Ralston1/media/SkullHammer/OrkTrucks009.jpg.html)

That is the fun part of playing orks and the new game seems to want to make orks a "serious" army. I still play for fun, I quit doing tourneys as it got to be "not fun" as well as most of the players I met at tourney seemed to have a serious lack of a sense of humor.

I used to play Saim Hann eldar, and when it got to where it was more work than reward I switched  to orks. Orks are just fun to play. My Eldar army sits is a bag in the garage gathering dust for the last 8 or 9 years, but they were my first army and so I hesitate to part with them.

If the new GW wants to take all the fun out of the game then I guess I will be relegated to being just a collector. Then my ork army will sit in the garage in a large box gathering dust, reminding me of the fun I used to have.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Saim-Dann on July 12, 2017, 11:56:58 AM
We play for fun as well, Skeet!
We'd just have more fun if we spent less on 2 books, Index/Codex, and more on models.
I quite like the Ork section in the Index. Am perfectly happy not to be facing Ard Boyz, and you know my feeling on Looted, blessed, Wagons...Be well!
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: magenb on July 17, 2017, 06:32:47 PM
Raven Guard

Chapter Focus: Raven Guard – Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/17/chapter-focus-raven-guard-july17gw-homepage-post-3/)


Err what the ... "Shadow Masters" better not be an army wide thing, that would be game breaking.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Wyddr on July 17, 2017, 06:49:42 PM
Raven Guard

Chapter Focus: Raven Guard – Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/17/chapter-focus-raven-guard-july17gw-homepage-post-3/)


Err what the ... "Shadow Masters" better not be an army wide thing, that would be game breaking.

Looks pretty army-wide to me. Game breaking? I dunno. But it will certainly make them harder to blast away from a distance. Some armies won't be able to cope, for sure.

*Still* not looking like the Tau's edition.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: magenb on July 17, 2017, 06:58:17 PM
Raven Guard

Chapter Focus: Raven Guard – Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/17/chapter-focus-raven-guard-july17gw-homepage-post-3/)

Err what the ... "Shadow Masters" better not be an army wide thing, that would be game breaking.

Looks pretty army-wide to me. Game breaking? I dunno. But it will certainly make them harder to blast away from a distance. Some armies won't be able to cope, for sure.

*Still* not looking like the Tau's edition.




From Facebook page:
Edd Vert  How is a dreadnought ever stealthy? A land Raider?
Surely this needs a faq for troops only.


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Warhammer 40,000  The Raven Guard would have found a way to make their vehicles quiet. No FAQ needed for this - it's pretty clear!


-------------------------

So yeah looks company wide, trying to find out if it stacks with their fliers and sniper cloaks.

Flamer and Dark Reapers just got a lot better lol. Doesn't change too much for Short ranged Eldar I guess, but sucks for Tau, then against Tau might get some equally insane bonus... hmmm wasn't this one of the reason we all hated 7th ed...

I can only hope they have increased the points for all of their stuff.

Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on July 17, 2017, 07:30:40 PM
All armies will be getting chapter tactics for their force. Also, I'll bet there will be army building obligations, like in AOS for their factions. But, we'll see.

We could very well see points hikes, or changes in the new codex to reflect this. I really hope twin assault cannons go up in price. Holy amphetamine parrot those are crazy.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: magenb on July 17, 2017, 08:04:10 PM
All armies will be getting chapter tactics for their force. Also, I'll bet there will be army building obligations, like in AOS for their factions. But, we'll see.

We could very well see points hikes, or changes in the new codex to reflect this. I really hope twin assault cannons go up in price. Holy amphetamine parrot those are crazy.

So Raven Guards bonus is not that great against CC heavy armies, but really bad for Tau, so does that mean Tau will get a bonus for shooting more than 12" away.. if it does then if Tau vs other armies suddenly gets a lot better, which means other armies will need to have some way to balance that out... Makes it that much harder to balance a game when you start pushing out unneeded special rules. If you really need fluffy special rules, do it once the extreme meta's have been tweaked out.


Yeah, Twin AC's are not bad, but Normal Marines don't have many cheapish options for AP weapons. Think of all the stuff Eldar and Necrons get access too, so I'm OK with them, but I'm still playing against people who like running balanced CAD style armies, so they tend not to get overly spammed.

Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on July 17, 2017, 09:31:31 PM
We'll see how it all plays out. I'm not going to speculate too much, without the bigger picture. We don't know the points and restrictions yet, so that might make a big difference.


Twin-Assault cannons are boarderline broken-good. 12 S6 ap-1 shots? A lot of lists I'm seeing contain 5-8 Twin-assault cannon razorbacks, and Guilliman for re-roll hits and wounds. Just wipes people off the table. I don't see why assault cannons needed to get 6 shots base.

Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Partninja on July 17, 2017, 11:05:04 PM
For most armies, the increased number of shots is welcomed as it's a heavy weapon usually mounted on a model that wants to move. With the reduced BS it balances out. Obviously characters help make them better, but you're paying a lot of points for that bonus.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: angel of death 007 on July 30, 2017, 06:11:58 PM
I am going to continue to use my indexes for the majority of my armies.  I think I have something like 8 or 9 armies now and I don't feel like dropping $50-60 a book on them.  If i decide to do tournaments then i will just get the book for whatever army i dedicate as my tournament army.   

I hate the fact that they are doing codexes so overpriced.  GW is going back to being the publishing company it has been for the past several years.  Sigh
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: magenb on July 30, 2017, 11:20:08 PM
Go to have a read of the SM Codex.
So chapter tactics are restricted to infantry, bikers and Dreadnoughts, (Servitors dont get them either).


Stratagems.. you can burn Command points to get extra relics and upgrade one of your characters to a chapter Master (better buff). There are a bunch of unit specific stuff as well. Most of them Seem to be minor buffs for re-rolls, or taking some sort of loss to maybe get a mortal Wound.

Warlord traits are not too shabby, however the alternate chapter traits can really boost units or the Warlor. Ravenguard Warlord ignoring overwatch or Ultramarine have a chance of the command point usage being free.

Relics...
Most of them are not too bad, area of effect increases.

Ravenguard jump pack.... can advance+charge and re-roll failed charges. I'm starting to think Ravenguard Fanboy got to add stuff into this book.

I may have missed it, but I didn't notice any point value for relics...
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on July 31, 2017, 12:54:35 PM
With Space Marines released it's Chaos Marines and Grey Knights next as GW previously mentioned. Preorder this weekend.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Lorizael on August 1, 2017, 02:50:06 AM


I may have missed it, but I didn't notice any point value for relics...

There aren't any. But it does say you have to pay for the item of wargear you're replacing. So in the case of the Ravenguard jump pack, you still need to pay the points for a Captain with jump pack, and then sub in the Relic.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: magenb on August 14, 2017, 07:17:54 PM
Since GW announced that there would be 10 codexes before Christmas, has anyone seen the list of codexes they are dropping?
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on August 14, 2017, 07:45:06 PM
Since GW announced that there would be 10 codexes before Christmas, has anyone seen the list of codexes they are dropping?

They only confirmed a few books at their initial announcement. After Death Guard comes out (with some nice new models), it's pure speculation.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on August 22, 2017, 01:30:06 PM
After Death Guard it's Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Cavalier on August 23, 2017, 08:19:37 AM
I really hope that the sub-factions get put on the backburner after this. I really want to see Imperial Guard, Orks, Eldar, Necrons and Tyranids paired up with the obligatory Imperial releases. I dont want to see Dark Angels + Thousand Sons, Deathwatch and Blood Angels style pairings till the cows come home. It'd really be a shame if most of the major factions didn't get their dexes by christmas time.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on August 23, 2017, 10:18:53 AM
I'd be pretty happy to see the harlequins codex next :)
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: laucian_meliamne on August 23, 2017, 12:24:30 PM
My suspicion is that they're churning out the sub-faction books first because they need the fewest new/re-boxed sets.  Spend less time/money on the models and more on the books to crank them out faster.

That said, I would be very surprised if we didn't get at least some Xenos releases in the initial 10 books.  Tau seem pretty likely since they have very minimal old metal/resin sets (are there even any left in the current range?), and even their first-generation plastic sets (Kroot, Fire Warriors, Hammerhead/Devilfish) are aging pretty well.  That said, given how little recent storyline events have focused on the Tau they might get backburnered for more central/iconic races.

Eldar played a pretty pivotal role in the recent storyline, and even their old kits (e.g. Vyper, Falcon, Guardians) are holding up pretty well.  Aspect Warriors are a problem though, since they're still the old metal/resin casts.  Warp Spiders are sorely in need of an update (the "current" models date back to 3rd edition). Same goes for Swooping Hawks. Shining Spears could be done by just adding an accessory sprue to the current jetbikes. But Banshees, Scorpions, Dragons, and Reapers, despite getting new metal/resin kits a while ago, are probably due for a re-re-release in plastic to get the whole line up to date. Also, some plastic Storm Guardian arms might be nice.  Added up, that's a lot of new kits that need to be made, and that doesn't feel like a "before 2018 along with 9 other books" project to me. I'd love to be wrong, but Eldar I can't see coming out properly for a while.

Tyranids I could see coming out soon-ish though. They've got some nice centrepiece plastic sets, relatively little remaining metal/resin, and they can lean on the new Genestealer sets if they needed to.  Plus Tyranids haven't gotten a new book in a while, so that'd be nice.  That said, because they've been neglected for so long I could see GW releasing them as a flashier Eldar-style release as I described above, with lots of new sets.

IG seem like another line that they could churn out quickly. The Cadian line has been pretty stable for a while, and making some bundles with lots of tanks isn't hard.  Maybe make some new accessory sets or character models, but I can't see much that's urgently missing from them.  It'd be super nice to see some of the old regiments make a return in plastic; I have a soft spot for Tallarn personally (I own about 7kg of the old metal ones), but that's probably further off. Maybe save that sort of thing for IG sub-faction releases?  Codex: Steel Legion, Codex: Catachans (again), Codex: Vostroyan Firstborn, etc...

Skitarii/Ad-Mech are probably another quick turn-around army. Their models are all pretty recent, there aren't any old metal/resin kits that want converting to plastic.

And then we're back to the SM and Chaos sub-factions.  Deathwatch are likely an easy one, since they can leverage every other chapter-specific release for conversion parts, and the Kill Team boxes (Cassius + the normal one) are recent, good-quality sets.  Blood Angels have lots of nice plastics already (e.g. Death Company), and they're almost as iconic as the Ultramarines in a lot of the production artwork.  I'd love to see a Codex: Renegades to cover IG turned traitor, along with a proper Daemons book that eschews corrupted humans entirely, but I can't see either of those happening in the initial 10 books.

This post has turned out more rambly than intended, so I'll perhaps sign off here and let everyone get back to the discussion.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Irisado on August 23, 2017, 01:42:24 PM
The Warp Spider sculpts date back to second edition ;).

I'd be surprised if Harlequins are next.  If there are any xenos releases before Christmas, I would expect Eldar and/or Tau.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on August 23, 2017, 01:42:55 PM
It'd really be a shame if most of the major factions didn't get their dexes by christmas time.


They did say the full run out could take two years and by Christmas is only a quarter of that.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: laucian_meliamne on August 23, 2017, 02:53:23 PM
The Warp Spider sculpts date back to second edition ;).

Right! My mistake. I knew they redid the Swooping Hawks for 3rd, and just assumed they'd redone the Spiders too. Whoops. In any case, can we agree that every Aspect Warrior unit except for Dire Avengers are long, long overdue for a plastic version?
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: magenb on August 23, 2017, 04:35:32 PM
Pheonix Lord, warp spiders, shinging spear, technically the Avatar are all original sculpts. The rest of the infantry models have had atleast 1 revamp.

We know from the chapter approved info they released that Orks, Necron and Dark eldar will not get a book before christmas. It makes sense to rush out all the Marine flavours, there's really not much work needed to get those out the door vs an entirely different race.  There might be an CWE codex though as they seem to be moving around the fluff and recent model releases, Gulliman, Mangus, Crawl, etc So a sisters dex could also be close by. Frankly given how quickly they are pumping these out I don't know why they just don't give us the release order.

There's what 30 codexes to produce, 10 in the first 6 months, so maybe 18-24 months to get through all of them. Atleast the armies with out a dex will be getting annual updates.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on August 23, 2017, 06:56:50 PM
So, according to leaks, this is the release schedule for the rest of the year.

Death Guard Sept 23
Ad Mech and Tau October 7th
Tyranids and Blood Angels November 11th
Necrons and Thousand Sons December 9th

So, my guess is that every release after Death Guard will be only books (as they would only have new models with single faction releases like Death Guard and Marines).

No Eldar, but this does give good hope that elder could be a bigger release next year with new kits. If elder was one of these books, then they'd get no new kits.

I've also heard rumours that Imperial Guard will be getting a new line of infantry plastics, probably Steel Legion.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: magenb on August 23, 2017, 08:44:39 PM
"Since Warhammer 40,000: Dark Imperium was launched, we have released several codexes, but there are still plenty of Factions – Orks, Drukhari, Necrons etc. – that don’t yet have a codex of their own. Chapter Approved gives these players a sneak peek of what many of these factions can expect when their codex is released "

hmm kind of wounder if chapter approved it going to FAQ the Necron codex then lol.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on August 23, 2017, 09:08:03 PM
"Since Warhammer 40,000: Dark Imperium was launched, we have released several codexes, but there are still plenty of Factions – Orks, Drukhari, Necrons etc. – that don’t yet have a codex of their own. Chapter Approved gives these players a sneak peek of what many of these factions can expect when their codex is released "

hmm kind of wounder if chapter approved it going to FAQ the Necron codex then lol.

Probably not. When they wrote that article, Necrons didn't have a codex (and still don't).
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Irisado on August 24, 2017, 04:57:26 AM
It's good to see that the Thousand Sons seem to be getting their codex later this year.  They certainly need it, based on the costing issues in the index.

I've no concerns about waiting for the Eldar codex.  Whether it not coming out before 2018 means that new models are in the pipeline I'm not sure about.  In any case, I still use a mixture of Rogue Trader, second edition, third edition, and fourth edition Eldar models, so it makes no difference to me either way.  If the new codex is being released next year to coincide with new models, then I do hope that they get rid of the ghastly resin Aspect Warriors, as that resin is awful.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: laucian_meliamne on August 24, 2017, 05:59:46 PM
There's what 30 codexes to produce, 10 in the first 6 months, so maybe 18-24 months to get through all of them. Atleast the armies with out a dex will be getting annual updates.

Are there actually 30?  All the codexes that I can think of off the top of my head since 3rd edition (with some amalgamations), plus ones the rumour mill seems to be suggesting are on the horizon. I'm not including the small supplements (e.g. Iyanden, Raukaan)

Space Marines
1- Space Marines (aka: Ultramarines)
2- Blood Angels
3- Dark Angels
4- Space Wolves
5- Grey Knights/Daemonhunters
6- Deathwatch
7- Black Templars
8- Legion of the Damned
9- Adeptus Custodes

Non-SM Imperium
1- Imperial Guard
2- Catachans
3- Tempestus
4- Imperial Agents/Assassins/Inquisition
5- Sisters of Battle/Witch Hunters
6- Knights
7- Adeptus Mechanicus
8- Skitarii
9- Sisters of Silence

Chaos
1- Chaos Space Marines
2- Deathguard
3- Thousand Sons
4- Daemons

Eldar
1- Craftworld Eldar
2- Dark Eldar
3- Harlequins
4- Ynarri (speculating that they might get their own codex at some point)

Other Xenos
1- Tyranids
2- Genestealer Cults
3- Orks
4- Tau
5- Necrons

I've got 31 there. Wow, I'm actually kind of surprised it's that many. Obviously some are relatively small and/or short-lived. And I may have skipped some.

If we assume that all of the smaller supplements will be expanded into full codices then the list expands quite a lot (especially on the Space Marine front, but also if every major Eldar craftworld gets its own book too).  I can't seem them churning out that many books, but I've been surprised before.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Looshkin on August 31, 2017, 01:27:51 PM
Breaking News – Studio Preview from the NOVA Open! – Warhammer (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/31/breaking-news-studio-preview-from-the-nova-open/)

So we have confirmation of the next 3 Codexes this year:

Eldar
Tyranids
Astra Mili......Imperial Guard

What do people think? Great news that we get some of the Heavy Hitters done before we turn inevitably back to Marines...or is it bad that this may be too soon to release things like Plastic Aspects and the like; so a probable Codex only release in each case?
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Calamity on August 31, 2017, 01:36:51 PM
I'm super happy about the IG arriving before Christmas, but at that rate it would be safe to assume that there will be no new IG models? 
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Wyddr on August 31, 2017, 01:51:40 PM
I wouldn't expect much in the way of new models, no. Seems to me like they're just trying to get all the books out to support the model range they have now.

Maybe one or two kits, but I doubt we'll see things like resculpts, etc. Plastic Aspects are way overdue, though.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Cavalier on September 1, 2017, 08:16:20 AM
I'm really excited. I can't wait to see what kind of command benefits the Eldar are gonna get. I'm hoping for some webway strike type action where you can either deepstrike or hold stuff in reserves.

Also hoping for some buffs to the Fire Prism, Falcon or even Support Batteries. Eldar long range AT is really weak. Having to plow through ungodly fire power with a Wave Serpent every single game to deliver your AT doesn't seem the "Eldar way". Hopefully they'll get little balance in that department.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on September 24, 2017, 01:22:56 PM
As predicted, Guard are next on the list. Eight regiments but sadly still no Praetorians.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on September 24, 2017, 02:11:59 PM
Hopefully the artillery and conscripts get points increases and/or tweaks, as they are pretty silly right now.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Wyddr on September 24, 2017, 03:15:01 PM
Hopefully the artillery and conscripts get points increases and/or tweaks, as they are pretty silly right now.

The text on the WH community site seemed to indicate that Conscripts are going to be squishier.

I personally hope they do something to make artillery worth taking (assuming you mean Basilisks/Manticores/Deathstrikes/Etc). Right now all those things suck pretty damned bad. The Leman Russ could use a pretty serious boost, too.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on September 24, 2017, 06:45:13 PM
It's really that Wyvryns, and manticores are amazing for their price. particularly the wyvryns.

I've seen no one take anything else.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Wyddr on September 24, 2017, 09:09:03 PM
Wyverns *are* pretty good. Too good? Not convinced, really. Depends on what you're bringing. Can't see them doing too much to MEQs.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Lorizael on September 27, 2017, 04:36:25 AM
In case no one had seen them yet:

Regimental Focus: Catachan – Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/25/regimental-focus-catachan-sep25gw-homepage-post-2/)

Regiment Focus: Mordian – Warhammer Community (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/26/regiment-focus-mordian-sep26gw-homepage-post-2/)
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Irisado on September 27, 2017, 08:30:07 AM
They have already been spotted and are being discussed over here (http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=230631.0) ;).
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on October 1, 2017, 06:31:11 PM
It's now Orktober. If the Ork codex doesn't come out this month then GW has no soul.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on November 6, 2017, 11:45:31 AM
As expected, next three codexes are Blood Angels, Dark Angels, then Chaos Daemons early next year.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on January 26, 2018, 11:10:44 AM
Necrons, Tau, and Dark Elder are approaching the landing zone.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Blazinghand on January 26, 2018, 02:09:07 PM
Necrons, Tau, and Dark Eldar are approaching the landing zone.

HUGE news. My Tau friend is hitting the roof. My Necrons friend is crying with joy. My Dark Eldar friend is considering painting his models. 2018 is the year for Xenos!

Meanwhile, my Orks are actually doing pretty ok on Index rules, which is kind of hilarious.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on January 26, 2018, 02:54:22 PM
Orks can be scary good right now.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: laucian_meliamne on January 26, 2018, 05:57:47 PM
2018 is the year for Xenos!

There's only one way to solve that problem. Clearly Deathwatch need to get updated ASAP and deal with all this Xenos scum...

...says the guy who's been playing Eldar since forever, and only started Deathwatch because they came in the box with all the Harlequins and plastic Eldrad.

But seriously, glad to see DE and Tau getting some attention. Necrons... meh, I'm less excited about. But maybe this new codex will make them seem less boring?
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on January 26, 2018, 06:19:40 PM
From what they said at lvo, apparently all armies will have their codexs by the end of the year.

I'm really excited to see what they do with Ynnari. I think it has the potential to be. Very cool faction.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Partninja on January 26, 2018, 06:23:48 PM
Orks are doing ok because hordes are quite strong this edition. Everyone at my LGS have a lot of trouble with orks right now. Even ones with a codex. Just sooo much green.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Blazinghand on January 26, 2018, 08:09:23 PM
Apparently after 2 rounds there are a few undefeated Orkz list. One of them has 50 grots, the other has 90. Are Grots the future?
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on January 26, 2018, 08:25:50 PM
Anything cheap,and which comes in large numbers, is really good right now. I'm not surprised. They fill up board space, and are hard to shift.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: admironheart on January 27, 2018, 02:21:32 PM
There's what 30 codexes to produce, 10 in the first 6 months, so maybe 18-24 months to get through all of them. Atleast the armies with out a dex will be getting annual updates.

Are there actually 30?  All the codexes that I can think of off the top of my head since 3rd edition (with some amalgamations), plus ones the rumour mill seems to be suggesting are on the horizon. I'm not including the small supplements (e.g. Iyanden, Raukaan)

Space Marines
1- Space Marines (aka: Ultramarines)
2- Blood Angels
3- Dark Angels
4- Space Wolves
5- Grey Knights/Daemonhunters
6- Deathwatch
7- Black Templars
8- Legion of the Damned
9- Adeptus Custodes

Non-SM Imperium
1- Imperial Guard
2- Catachans
3- Tempestus
4- Imperial Agents/Assassins/Inquisition
5- Sisters of Battle/Witch Hunters
6- Knights
7- Adeptus Mechanicus
8- Skitarii
9- Sisters of Silence

Chaos
1- Chaos Space Marines
2- Deathguard
3- Thousand Sons
4- Daemons

Eldar
1- Craftworld Eldar
2- Dark Eldar
3- Harlequins
4- Ynarri (speculating that they might get their own codex at some point)

Other Xenos
1- Tyranids
2- Genestealer Cults
3- Orks
4- Tau
5- Necrons

I've got 31 there. Wow, I'm actually kind of surprised it's that many. Obviously some are relatively small and/or short-lived. And I may have skipped some.

If we assume that all of the smaller supplements will be expanded into full codices then the list expands quite a lot (especially on the Space Marine front, but also if every major Eldar craftworld gets its own book too).  I can't seem them churning out that many books, but I've been surprised before.

You forgot SQUATS and EXODITES.!!!! (sigh) Penal Legions/PDFs and Hrud or Kroot would be cool as well.
Did you include Corsairs and Heretics and other ForgeWorld lists in that 31?
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on January 27, 2018, 02:44:37 PM
I think it's fair to assume nothing forge world is getting a codex,nor squats. Of all those, with the minor factions getting books, I'd not be surprised to see exodites. Maybe wrapped into the Ynnari release?

There are rumours of a legion of the damned book,lead by a ghost of ferrus manus. That'd be cool, but I think unlikely.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on January 27, 2018, 03:31:51 PM
Kroot are too low key to need their own codex. Expanded in Tau perhaps but not on their own.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Lorizael on January 27, 2018, 06:58:18 PM
From what they said at lvo, apparently all armies will have their codexs by the end of the year.

I'm really excited to see what they do with Ynnari. I think it has the potential to be. Very cool faction.

Ynnari are likely to stay as they are. They just got a rebox with up to date rules. They won't have their own Codex, you'll just buy the dexes for the Aeldari you want to use and add in the box rules.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Battle Master Lomandalis on January 27, 2018, 07:02:25 PM
Kroot are too low key to need their own codex. Expanded in Tau perhaps but not on their own.
Beyond the Kroot Mercenary list that was released in Chapter Approved back in 3rd Ed, there's never really been that much of a demand for them.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: laucian_meliamne on January 27, 2018, 07:21:18 PM
You forgot SQUATS and EXODITES.!!!! (sigh) Penal Legions/PDFs and Hrud or Kroot would be cool as well.
Did you include Corsairs and Heretics and other ForgeWorld lists in that 31?
Not sure why you're asking about Corsairs and other FW lists in the 31. Every army I included is clearly listed. So no, FW armies were not included.

I can't honestly see Kroot getting their own codex, though giving Kroot an HQ choice and allowing them to be a proper detachment in another army would be a nice inclusion in the upcoming Tau codex.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on January 28, 2018, 11:50:45 AM
From what they said at lvo, apparently all armies will have their codexs by the end of the year.

I'm really excited to see what they do with Ynnari. I think it has the potential to be. Very cool faction.

Ynnari are likely to stay as they are. They just got a rebox with up to date rules. They won't have their own Codex, you'll just buy the dexes for the Aeldari you want to use and add in the box rules.


My thoughts, is they need some sort of access to strategems with taking a pure detachment. Also, they need the changes to soul burst printed in a book, not just as an faq.

I agree they might never get more models, but I after seeing the visarch and yvrane, I'd love to see that aesthetic applied to whole units.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: magenb on January 28, 2018, 03:16:43 PM
My thoughts, is they need some sort of access to strategems with taking a pure detachment. Also, they need the changes to soul burst printed in a book, not just as an faq.


The Ynnari nerf probably went a bit too far considering most armies have a way to generate a double tap at will now and the number of units that get extra hits, etc. I suspect they will iron SB out before their codex will drop though.

Given how they are doing Thousand sons and effectively just reprinting sections of the other chaos codexes in it, I would say it is a fair bet the same thing will happen for Ynnari. It will also pad the book out given the lack of fluff at the moment.



New models... I wouldn't say never, but probably not in 8th.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on January 28, 2018, 03:29:29 PM
Looks like Ynnari might win the LVO, so the nerf wasn't that bad lol.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Blazinghand on January 28, 2018, 04:04:07 PM
Looks like Ynnari might win the LVO, so the nerf wasn't that bad lol.

Particularly when accompanied by the great buffs to dark Reapers and Shining Spears
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Partninja on January 28, 2018, 06:27:01 PM
Hopefully those two units don't see a nerf as a result.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: The GrimSqueaker on January 28, 2018, 06:40:40 PM
The next major en-FAQing is scheduled for March so we'll see how that goes. Should be another three codexes released by then.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: magenb on January 28, 2018, 06:53:47 PM
Looks like Ynnari might win the LVO, so the nerf wasn't that bad lol.

The list is 50/50 CWE and Ynnari, with reaper spam. In a few month you will probably find it will be a DE/Ynnari list lol.

Fluff wise it makes sense right now as they may not have the numbers to stand on their own, but an army should be solid enough to stand on their own, kind of hard to do that with Ynnari at the moment.


Hopefully those two units don't see a nerf as a result.

codex creep is still a thing, so don't see they need a nerf.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Battle Master Lomandalis on January 28, 2018, 08:58:49 PM
codex creep is still a thing, so don't see they need a nerf.
Really?  How so?  I can't think of a single codex that has been released that is bad.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: magenb on January 28, 2018, 10:27:08 PM
codex creep is still a thing, so don't see they need a nerf.
Really?  How so?  I can't think of a single codex that has been released that is bad.

Compare a space marine to blood angels for example.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on January 28, 2018, 10:34:58 PM
Both books are equally good imo.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Battle Master Lomandalis on January 28, 2018, 11:58:17 PM
Compare a space marine to blood angels for example.
You're saying that Codex: Space Marines is subpar to Codex: Blood Angels?

Space Marines?

The codex that gives you Guilliman and Ultramarine gunlines?

Yeah... I'm not seeing it.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Partninja on January 29, 2018, 08:11:55 AM
I presume he means the vanilla codex is better than BA. I own the BA codex and a decent sized BA army. I'm not that impressed with the extra rules. They're still struggling in my meta but so are a lot of "elite" armies.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Saim-Dann on January 29, 2018, 08:26:19 AM
G'day, Partninja!
What is the doctrine of the DA? Am up in the air as to what chapter to paint my Primus marines. Have always liked DA. However, the doctrine of the Ultra Marines, (Being able to shoot in the same turn as they retreat from combat), and the Imperial Fists, (Ignoring the minus 1 to hit when targets are in cover), are very appealing.

If the DA doctrine matches these, I will go with them. If they don't, then UM it is. Will value your input greatly, mate... Be well!   
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Partninja on January 29, 2018, 08:42:24 AM
BA only have one which gives them +1 to wound when the my charge or were charged. It's good for an assault based force, but assault isn't particularly good compared to the vanilla codex options in an edition that still favors shooting.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on January 29, 2018, 09:20:32 AM
Considering how the only pure space marine army to make the top 8 at Tue LVO was Blood Angels, I'd say their book is pretty good.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Partninja on January 29, 2018, 10:05:13 AM
That doesn't particularly prove anything to me. Also they use 2k points or so I assume? Armies are different at 1500 which my LGS plays.

Again I'm not saying they're bad. The vanilla codex has more options. Could be a number of things that allowed the BA player to progress.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on January 29, 2018, 10:11:37 AM
The specialist blood angels units, like Sanguinary Guard, and Death Company are very good, as well as their characters. the LVO list, was predominantly made up of 5 man interceptor squads and scouts. I don't think the size of the game makes a difference in this example. Blood Angels share most units in the Space Marine codex, if anything they have more options due to their unique units. Just different traits and none of the named characters.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Partninja on January 29, 2018, 10:16:55 AM
By options I meant special rules. Not units. Plus he used mostly units all marine armies get.

Points really do matter in my experience. At 1500 people have tried  scaled down tourney lists (sillyman for example) and they don't work out too well.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on January 29, 2018, 10:27:25 AM
By options I meant special rules. Not units. Plus he used mostly units all marine armies get.

Points really do matter in my experience. At 1500 people have tried  scaled down tourney lists (sillyman for example) and they don't work out too well.

This is true to a certain extent, but a good book is a good book at any size. Generally, all the codex's released right now I believe are on an even footing.

The only book I think may struggle is Grey Knights, but that's just because they are very expensive marines, but no tougher than any other marine. But their damage output is very good.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: magenb on January 29, 2018, 03:06:41 PM
The original Marine codex was great.. when most of the armies were still on indexes and flyers hadn't been nerfed... Primarch is painful but the list crumbles when he's taken out. BA dex has ways to almost guaranty first turn charge, red thirst is super useful. No codex has been a hands down insta win, like some previous editions, but each new codex has raised the bar a bit.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Battle Master Lomandalis on January 29, 2018, 05:08:30 PM
That doesn't particularly prove anything to me. Also they use 2k points or so I assume? Armies are different at 1500 which my LGS plays.
When you are discussing the overall power level / effectiveness of a codex, I would say that the results of one of the premier North American tournaments is a pretty good metric to judge a codex's worthiness against.

The original Marine codex was great.. when most of the armies were still on indexes and flyers hadn't been nerfed... Primarch is painful but the list crumbles when he's taken out. BA dex has ways to almost guaranty first turn charge, red thirst is super useful. No codex has been a hands down insta win, like some previous editions, but each new codex has raised the bar a bit.
I wouldn't say that each new codex has raised the bar.  I would say that each has added a unique element to the game that forces the community to make adjustments.  Take the Blood Angels for instance.  I started running my Ravenwing again once the Dark Angels got a new codex, and the first time I played against Blood Angels, he was running a big unit of Death company and Sanguinary Guard in a Brigade.  He burned through 12 command points in two turns and decimated my bikes.  So I made an adjustment by adding in a unit of Scouts to have some area denial in the face of his deep striking units.  The Blood Angels made me change my list by 55pts because it demonstrated to me that Deep Striking units are very potent if left unchecked.  Adding to that, my gaming group has an Eldar player that deep strikes 40 Biel-Tan Guardians and has been decimating his opponents.  Again, because of what I learned from the Blood Angel player, I am able to adjust to that style of play.

The best thing about this edition is that there is no set meta any more.  One codex comes out with a new fancy trick, and then people have adjusted for that by the time the next codex drops.
Title: Re: Codexes on the way
Post by: Killersquid on January 29, 2018, 06:49:30 PM
I can't agree more. New book has a new surprise that takes you off guard, might kick your ass a couple of games,then you figure out how to beat it.

I think the codexs in 8th are more balanced too each other than any previous edition.