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The Armies of 40k => Orks => Topic started by: Roboknee77 on July 11, 2016, 03:38:42 PM

Title: New Git
Post by: Roboknee77 on July 11, 2016, 03:38:42 PM
Hello Everybody!

New guy here but you may have read about some of the battles I've played against my friend that got me into the game (see links below).  They give you an idea of what I've tried using and how they've worked.  I've had some success and some spectacular blunders but have been having fun.

mostly I'm looking for some advice on what to add to my 500 point army to make it a 750 point army against my friend's daemon army.  I'm thinking along the lines of some Deffkoptas, maybe some trukks for some mobility, and another unit of something like Burnas or Nobz.

My army so far:

The Dakka Boyz
Ork Combined Arms Detachment

Warboss w/'Eavy Armor, Power Klaw, Bosspole, TL Shoota

12 Shoota Boyz w/Big Shoota, Nob w/ 'Eavy Armor, Bosspole
11 Shoota Boyz w/Big Shoota
10 Lootas
5 Mek Gunz (Lobbas)

I'd also like any advice on what to do against Eldar, I've got another mini-campaign against a mutual friend. (40K Campaign: The Vaults of Kekes'tular (http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=229675.msg2757521#msg2757521))   The Eldar have already fought against the Daemons so I'm expecting a similar army to what was taken in that fight. (500 Point Eldar Vs Tzeentchain Daemons, Purge the Alien (http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=229678.0))

Anyway, hello, glad to be here and I appreciate any help you guys can give me.

Previous Battles:
Orks vs/ Daemons 1:
500 point Orks Vs Tzeentch Daemons: Crusade (http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=229776.0)

Orks vs. Daemons 2:
500 point Orks Vs Tzeentch Daemons: Rematch! (http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=229779.0)

Orks vs. Imperium 1:
750 Point Vostroyan AM Vs Orks: Big Guns Never Tire (http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=229475.0)

Orks vs. Imperium 2:
750 Vostroyans Vs Orks: Rematch! (http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=229549.0)
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: dog_of_war on July 11, 2016, 10:56:12 PM
Welcome to the most fun army ever to come out of the workshop. You won't always win with an ork army, but you'll never lose because orks don't lose! (see page 58 of your codex)  ;)
And besides, these guys are just plain fun.

As for you the lists you have been running with, they've got some great potential. I'm not sure what you have available to you for models, but I think wyddr afforded you the use of proxies in your first couple games, so this might be a good opportunity to try out some different units.

Some of the big things we have to look at is the point levels you are playing at.

1. consistency
2. durability
3. target priority

Orks are not known for their consistent behaviour and its their randomness that makes them such a fun army. At low point levels though, you are relying on every unit doing its job without a glitch. Look to units that help mitigate randomness with re-rolls and just massive amounts of dice.

For example: lootas are great, but can have a lower amount of hits due to their random shot count and worse balistic skill than a unit of killa kans with grotzookas for similar points. You may lose a single point of strength and AP in their firepower, but that is more than made up in their durability.

You did work out some good target priority balancing of your list, as wyddr had to choose between the lootas, lobbas, and orks, but a combination of deploying too far apart and have slower moving units or units that suffered from moving and shooting, he was able to pick apart your army.

The way your current list is setup you would definitely take advantage of using the castle technique. Have your lobbas and lootas in the rear flanks in some cover with the two units of shoota boyz in the center, being able to intercept or counterattack an enemy charging your ranks. There is plenty of firepower to make any opponent approaching pay dearly and you want to get as many turns of shooting in before you have to engage the enemy because you essentially have a gun-line army build. If you want to continue with this type of build there are some great units you could add for the next 250 point jump.

1. Battlewagon
I know it seems like you're trying to assault the enemy with it but hear me out. Put the lootas inside and they have an armoured fire base to shoot from. You have a plethora of weaponry you can add to the battlewagon to turn it into a devastating long-range shooter on its own and with that great front armour, it's going to withstand a lot of punishment. It would make a great unit to anchor your castle with.

2. Killa Kans
Great, cheap armour with better ballistic skill than an ork and is able to move and shoot. Comes with a handy pint sized klaw, that while not as strong as a power klaw, is not unweildy. I almost always take them with grotzookas for the higher strength and templates for greater number of hits.

3. More orks
The best unit to add to an ork army is more orks. The best upgrade for any unit is more orks. They are cheap and plentiful. Face it, you're running a horde style army. The more bodies in your list the better. The best look on your opponents face is always when he says at the start of the game "I don't have enough to kill all that".

4. Gretchin
Gretchin or Grots, as I call them, are great meat shields, can bog down an enemy unit for a crucial turn or two and can actual do some damage with enough shots from their blastas.

You could go the other way and make a more aggressive assault/drive-by shooting army, but you may need to drop/change some of the elements of your list.

You could put the lootas in a battlewagon, the boyz in trukks and then add koptas, buggies, and/or bikers to fill out the list. The mek gunz just don't seem to fit in that list, but at a higher point level, say 1500+ points, they'd be fine to put back in. At higher point levels you can have different factions of the army performing differently. Half the army could castle, the other could be on the offensive. There are many techinques, hammer and anvil being one of them, that would work with that style of army, but I think at this low point level you need to choose either a stationary/attack from afar list or a mobile/bring the fight to the enemy list.

Let me know if any of this piques your interest and I can go into more detail.

Welcome again to the ranks. I look forward to seeing your next showdown.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Roboknee77 on July 12, 2016, 09:44:10 AM
Wow, thanks for the advice, there is a lot of stuff in there to think about.  And good point, there's more Orks coming after those pesky daemons, and this time they've learned a thing or two.

What I have available for minis right now is pretty much what I have in my 500 point lists.  And you're right, I'm sure I can get a proxy or two from Wyddr if I want to take a battle wagon.  Other units, like boyz or gretchin will be easy enough to purchase.

The main idea behind this army was to field units that could shoot long distance, like lootas and loobas, and could provide a volume of fire power.  The first game I played with orks I barely did anything but move and get shot.  So, in the second game I played, I was able to bring a lot of firepower to bear on the Imperial Guardsmen.  Pretty much everything was able to shoot every turn, so no unit was wasting time moving into position, or moving to help defend other units.  A mistake I made in my most recent game but one I will learn from.

I see your point about the lootas.  They can throw out a lot of dakka but aren't consistently doing 20-30 shots and they break and run way too easily once they get damaged.  Your battle wagon idea might be a good one, I'll have to think about that when I'm not at work.  If I were to add an HQ figure to them, what would you suggest?

The Mek Guns were nice against the Imperial Guard and I'd had great success against infantry with them.  But yeah, maybe adding some more Boys and Gretchen would be better against what I'm facing in the Deamon army, especially since the next scenario is a defense/objective holding mission.  What can you tell me about Kans?  They look awesome but I haven't looked too closely at them.

In the long run, once we start getting into higher point games, I think I want to take a fast attack army with bikes and trukks and koptas with the loobas and lootas as long range fire support.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: dog_of_war on July 12, 2016, 10:05:07 AM
If you are sticking with the gunline theme, I would switch the warboss for a big mek. At 750 points, having two HQs as a pretty big point sink. The big mek can attach to either the lootas or the lobbas and you could give give a kustom force field (KFF) for protection, especially if he's going to be in a battlewagon with the lootas, as the save transfers to the transport. If you are feeling a little riskier, you could give him a shokk attack gun (SAG). While definitely not reliable, its probably the most satisfying weapon in the game when it does work. I've never been consistently successful with one, especially at a lower points game, but man is it exciting to use.

While lobbas are great against imperial guard, I would switch to kannons. They are more versatile and you'll find the option for high strength/low AP to help against some daemon shenanigans.

The lootas shouldn't break so soon, if you use the battlewagon and if they get charged, mob rule should keep them in the fight a little longer, if they lose a round of combat. Beefing up the unit to a full 15 models, should help add a lot more dice even if you get a low random shot roll and they'll all fit in a battlewagon with your HQ.

Kans are great; decent armour, reasonable weaponry and relatively cheap. They do suffer from the cowardly grot rule, but if you take them in larger numbers and keep a deff dread close by, it usually doesn't hinder them. I'd save them for a higher points game, as you want to keep the mek gunz and lootas and if you add a battlewagon, that's your third heavy slot. At a higher points game, we can start talking about taking multiple combined arms detachments (CADs) to unlock more heavy slots for you.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Ork E Nuff on July 12, 2016, 02:36:35 PM
Robo:  Welcome to the horde!  It's a blast playing orks, it just takes time to develop your particular theme (or flavor/klan, etc.).  I've had some limited success running a gun line, but due to the static nature, it doesn't really win games, visa vie, grabbing objectives, line breaking, etc...Looking at your list, I agree with DOW, change your warboss for a big mek.  You might save some points, but if you kit him out right, he can be just as dangerous as any other HQ.  I recently fought an 1850 pt game for fun and fielded a BM with a klaw and shock attack gun.  The SAG really was a game changer and, if you can do it, is well worth the investment.  I also ran 25 grots w/2 runtherders.  They drew more fire by turn 2 than any other unit.  My static shoota unit (25 orks) was reduced to 12 really quick, even in cover.  Kanz paid for themselves as their bs is better than your orks, and in a mob, chain reaction explosions killed more foes than any other unit. 

When you pick them up, go with more boyz...I'm an old foot slogger and enjoy racing across the board with 2 or 3 units of 30.  Remember, there is only so many orks that can be taken out by a lascannon or plasmacannon during a turn.  Keep your mobz big and watch your cohesion.  Stay close enough for checks, but far enough apart that your units are completely covered by a large blast template...

But, remember, have more fun than your opponent and you'll do fine.

my two teef...
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Roboknee77 on July 13, 2016, 09:53:05 AM
Thanks Ork E Nuff.  Glad to be here and learning.

After what you and Dog said, I think I'm going to change to a Big Mek.  A KFF on the lootas would be nice but that SAG looks like it could be fun.  As I'm learning things, I may not take an optimized army so I can more things out.

The next scenario I'm playing against Wyddr is a defensive one, where he has to assault into my territory to grab objectives.  I'm very amused by the idea of taking a bunch of Gretchin and plopping them on one of the objectives.  And Kans do seem pretty cool and the Grootzooka looks like a blast.  I think he may add flamers or a demon prince to his list but not sure which one.

I have a question about Lootas in a Battlewagon.  I looked through the rules but couldn't determine if because the lootas in the Battlewagon can fire at their regular BS when the Wagon moves or not?
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: dog_of_war on July 13, 2016, 02:24:53 PM
They can fire, but it will have to be snap shots, which is not that bad, because it's at a ballistic skill one less than their normal. I'll try to get a page number for you. Ideally you would keep the battlewagon stationary, unless you're moving away from a threat. You won't be moving towards the enemy because you don't want the lootas to get engaged. The most moving you'd want to do is pivot to point the highest armour towards the greatest threat. Luckily pivoting does not count as moving, so it doesn't affect the lootas shooting.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Roboknee77 on July 14, 2016, 08:54:24 AM
That's what I thought.  I know that some vehicles transfer traits to units in them/on them but it wasn't clear if units in a tank got the ability to shoot at full BS even when they moved.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: dog_of_war on July 14, 2016, 10:25:17 PM
Just for your reference it's on page 80 of the Big Rule Book (BRB) under Fire Points. As you're very interested in how kans work, I'm going to rejig my list for a game tomorrow night to include all the kans I have and you can see how devastating the really are when I post the battle report.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Roboknee77 on July 15, 2016, 09:08:22 AM
Cool, thanks for the clarification.

I look forward to reading that.  I'm very much considering taking a group of them for the finale with Wyddr.  And as much as a KFF on a Big Mek in a group of Lootas would help their survivability, I think I want to try out the Shock Attack Gun.

I'll probably be putting together my list this weekend.  Thanks for all the advice.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: dog_of_war on July 15, 2016, 09:45:50 AM
In the case of orks, the best defense is usually a good offense.  :D

Look forward to seeing what list you build.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Roboknee77 on July 18, 2016, 03:21:59 PM
So, I've got 2 ideas to try, both are variations on my starting army.

Big Mek w/ Shock Attack Gun, Gitfinder, Bosspole, 'Eavy Armor & Da Finkin Cap
12 Shoota Boyz w/Big Shoota, Nob w/ Bosspole
12 Shoota Boyz w/Big Shoota, Nob w/ Bosspole
15 Lootas
3 Killa Kans w/ Grotzookas
19 Gretchin w/ Runtherder

It's 750 points and I'm thinking of the Finkin' Cap because a few of the Strategic Traits would be helpful in the scenario I'm going to be playing.

The second army is similar.

Big Mek w/ Shock Attack Gun, Gitfinder, Bosspole, 'Eavy Armor
12 Shoota Boyz w/Big Shoota, Nob w/ Bosspole
12 Shoota Boyz w/Big Shoota, Nob w/ Bosspole
12 Shoota Boyz w/Big Shoota, Nob w/ Bosspole
10 Lootas
3 Killa Kans w/ Grotzookas
10 Gretchin w/ Runtherder

This comes to 745 points and there are more units for my adversary to worry about.  After my last battle, I want to have a lot more pieces on the board watching each others backs and can weather the loss of a couple units while still be able to fill the air with Dakka.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: dog_of_war on July 18, 2016, 04:18:12 PM
Both lists are very viable. If it was me, I would take the second list, but drop the third unit of boyz and take a deff dread, especially since you're keen on taking some kans. He will act as a bullet magnet, keeping your other units from harms way and helps the kans from losing their nerve. A high armoured vehicle at a low point level game will also be very strong, in comparison to using one at a higher points level.

I would also put the big mek with the grots. Having him join the lootas make them a big target. The grots won't likely run with him there and they act like extra wounds for him.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Roboknee77 on July 18, 2016, 04:27:43 PM
Good point about the Deff Dread.  It would be cheaper than the boys, give me some more points to play around with, and make a bullet magnet.  Thanks Dog!
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: dog_of_war on July 19, 2016, 09:14:48 AM
If you're going to take a deff dread, I've had my best results when going with four klaws. That way you won't hesitate running him every turn and he won't disappoint you in combat, even I'd you have some bad rolling. (Seven attacks on the charge is nothing to laugh at.)

But, since you're running a gun line army, you may be best running with big shootas. Ork ballistic skill is lack lustre and upgrading to rokkits or kustom mega blasters you're most likely to not see many successful shots. A scorcha is good, if you expect you'll be facing an assault army or you're running one yourself.

You can keep your dread near the kans to stop them from chickening out and provide a good counter punch to an assault. Keeping the kans in front of the dread will also provide him with a decent cover save.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Roboknee77 on July 19, 2016, 01:19:16 PM
If it were a higher point battle I think I would try four klaws.  At this point level and the style army I'm running, shootas will give me good versatility.

I'm tempted by the skorchas since I'll be playing against demons and without loobas my opponent may be more likely to klump his forces closer together, meaning more hits.  Plus, no to hit rolls on template weapons, which would offset the lousy ballistic skill of the the Orks.  The downside, limited range.

The scenario we'll be playing is also one where all the objectives are in my half of the board, so he will have to get move close to me to take them.  Oy, so much to think about.

Okay, here's a question, Grot Riggers?  Any good for dredds since they give it an It Will Not Die save?
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: dog_of_war on July 19, 2016, 01:44:29 PM
It depends. If you think he can kill your dread in a single turn, then the grot riggers are pointless. If you think he'll have to whittle away at his hull points, the the riggers are a must have.

Did you notice a lot of high strength weapons, especially meltas, the last two games? Three successful shots can remove him from the table, but if you use the kans as cover, it has the chance to save some of those. It may turn out to be a waste of points, if the dice gods are not in your favour, but unless he has a ton of high strength and/or melta weapons, I'd pay the few points for a chance of higher survivability.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Roboknee77 on July 19, 2016, 02:06:34 PM
I've only played about 6 battles so I really don't know too much about other armies.

I saw heralds, horrors and screamers in his army last time with the possibility of summoning more units.  The first game only lasted a turn and a half and I only lost six orks.  The second game lasted 4 turns and I lost a unit each turn almost, mostly due to summoned flamers. Mostly I saw witchfire attacks and flames.  I don't think anything was really high damage.  He mostly whittled me down when I wasn't klumped too closely.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Wyddr on July 19, 2016, 06:36:25 PM
As Robo's opponent, I can say this: the advantage and disadvantages of playing Tzeentch Daemons is that I can't easily predict what powers I will get, however I do have access to high strength beam attacks, blasts, and even occasionally Strength D shots.

Or I might roll none of those things and I'll have to see if the Screamers can eat walkers in close-combat. Not ideal, but certainly possible.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: dog_of_war on July 19, 2016, 11:27:41 PM
Instead of the riggers, let's see if you could squeeze one more kan in there.

I've never taken boss poles myself. Now I normally take huge mobs of boyz, but you're still only giving yourself a 2/3 chance to reroll on the mob rule table that where most of the results aren't positive anyways.

Dropping the Da Finkin Kap and git finder as well, should give you a few more. You're using a blast template, so the extra BS doesn't give you much. I would also consider dropping the grots, which would give you enough for that fourth kan, which I would take over all those upgrades, including grot riggers. This should also give some extra points for some more shoota boyz and if you're willing to drop the mob upgrades too, that's almost 3 boyz per squad you could add. As you wouldn't be using a boss pole and you're not kitting the nob with any extra equipment, it would make sense to just take more boyz.

It would look something like this.

Big Mek w/ SAG, eavy armour

Shootas x15 w/ big shoota
Shootas x15 w/ big shoota

Killa Kans w/ grotzooka x4
Deff Dread w/ big shootas
Lootas x10

You'll have to put the big mek with the lootas, but he'll most likely be concentrating on those walkers.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Roboknee77 on July 20, 2016, 12:26:40 PM
You make a very good point about the boss poles and boss nobs.  The boss' leadership isn't better than the regular boys and the pole only lets you reroll 2/3 of the results.  As I was told after one game, "Boyz not toys," when taking add-on equipment.

All said, that list looks fun and still gives me a bunch of units on the table.  I think I know what I'm going to have to purchase next for my army.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: dog_of_war on July 21, 2016, 08:26:38 AM
You can take the boyz in three units of ten, but they are much less likely to be forced morale checks in the bigger units. The only time you may want smaller units is if you want to spread out your target priority, have units be able to shoot or charge more targets, or have more units to add more nobs. In your case, I think the bigger the units the better.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Ork E Nuff on July 21, 2016, 06:42:28 PM
And again, I'll interject my opinion into the current conversation:

Go big or go home...use big units (over 12-15) as they tend to survive the mob rule rolls better.  I had a 30 ork unit tie up a DA HQ for 2 turns, freeing up 2 other units to run havoc throughout the enemy lines and succeed in linebreaking (man, do I hate the new sub-objectives...).  Back when the mob rulez actually worked for orks, large units were still the order of the day as they had survivability in the face of superior firepower, weapons skill and ballistic skill (kinda like today...).

Don't be afraid to have big units of either shootas or sluggas.  Shootas make for a great gun line or objective security.  Sluggas are a great wave that hits an enemy unit or objective with a bucket of dice and merry mayhem...

Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Roboknee77 on July 22, 2016, 08:24:10 AM
I plan on going bigger down the road, units of 20-30 boyz.  These are smaller point games and the 12 boyz thing was mostly because I was trying trukks in earlier games and that was the capacity.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Ork E Nuff on July 22, 2016, 06:47:55 PM
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ... keep quiet about trukks...all that's going to do is attract Skeetergod and he'll be all over you like a used car salesman about the advantages of being a speed freak and KOS and who knows what else...Watch yerself...he's out there, just waitin'...and watchin'...
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: dog_of_war on July 22, 2016, 07:26:51 PM
Ah now you did it. You spoke his name, so he's sure to show up. Just when we had ourselves a new potential kan aficionado.  ;)
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Roboknee77 on July 28, 2016, 09:36:01 AM
I'll be honest, the idea of a speed army did stand out to me when reading the Ork Codex.  I've thought that it would be a good theme for larger scale games.

But another part of me really does like the look of the Kans and Dreads and they work with my dakka boyz army theme.

And my inner role playing game geek likes the in game reason I came up with to use the Big Mek HQ and Kans.  The first battle in this campaign had my boys wipe out the demons, so the Warboss got cocky and he got wiped out in the next battle.  So, with no Warboss left the next biggest Ork is a greasy, grimy, Big Mek is going to lead a lot of left over boys and some tech against the demons.  I just hope I have a more competitive game than the last one.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: dog_of_war on July 29, 2016, 09:03:35 AM
I really like your idea of using a narrative to build your army and what you've come up with totally makes sense.

You can absolutely have a big mek leading a speed freak army. Narrative wise, it would be a must to have a big mek and other meks around to help build and repair all those vehicles. You also don't have to focus on a single flavour of army, especially at the higher points levels. For example; my latest army is a combination of a kan wall (lots of walkers) army and a green tide (big mobs of boyz) army and it plays well. I think if you built a hammer and anvil style army; walkers and big guns being your static element and bikes and trukks and koptas being your moving element, you'd do just fine. I can't wait to see how you fair in your next battle. Looking forward to seeing the results.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: SKEETERGOD on August 3, 2016, 07:47:06 AM
Aaaaarrrrgggg!!!!! I see I am too late. (thats what happens when you go on vacation, come back and stuff happens... ::) )

All you non KoS players have recruited a kan wall player,,  :(   

Now, if I can't add in with a timely reply I will add in a late reply.  First things first.
I invite you to join the Way of The Waagh. Just go to THIS LINK (http://http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=210596.0)
and post a reply that you would like to join. I will try to wake up OD or 007 and get your name on the roster, but I will add your name to the bank account.

Now for the other part. I think you should just add lots of trucks and put your boss on a bike. With all those shoota boys you can move around doing a lot of drive by shootings which are a lot of fun. Put the lootas in trucks too so they can move some to get a better line of fire (if the truck doesn't move too far the lootas can still shoot as normal).

I realize that the non KoS players have already got to you, and you are well on your way to a klanking wall of menace to krump your opponents with, so I wish you the things that make all orks happy: To krump your opponent, To see his army flee, and To hear the lamentations of the players... 8)

Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Roboknee77 on August 4, 2016, 09:14:08 AM
It looks like the summoning worked.

I haven't ruled out speed, I just went with a different approach for my first lower point battles.  Being able to move fast is a long term goal for me, I do like the idea of trukks, bikes and stormboys.  I've only just started so I have a lot of experimenting to do.

We'll see how Shootas, Lootas, and a bunch of Kans do against demons next Tuesday night.

Oh, and could you repost the link?  It doesn't seem to be working for me.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Irisado on August 4, 2016, 10:34:47 AM
The Way of the Waaagh can be found here (http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=210596.0).
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Roboknee77 on August 4, 2016, 12:36:35 PM
Thank you
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Roboknee77 on August 18, 2016, 09:28:26 AM
The most recent battle report is up here (http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=229842.0).

A couple of orkish observation.  I need to get used to orks dying by the boatload.  I blame playing too many video games with dumb AI giving me a false sense of tactical skills.  I also need to get more aggressive with my boyz.  This is the first game I've gotten a load of them into assault and it's fun to roll 33 dice.

Second, the kans were fun.  I envisioned them as a bit of mobile artillery, like the mek guns but being able to move and not die in close combat.  They did alright.  They got off a ton of grotzooka shots in one round and then got locked in close combat and held their own for a few turns.  Plus they looked great.

Thirdly, I now have a new favorite unit, the Deff Dread!  I call him Francis!


He was fun and like a force of nature once he got going.  I'll probably take him again the next game I play, which should be vs. Iron Fists, since I need a break from the psychic phase.

I'm also going to look into some deffkoptas to give me some more speed and mobility to harass the enemy flanks.

I'll say it again, thank you all for your advice.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: dog_of_war on August 19, 2016, 09:09:08 AM
It was a great battle and looked like a lot of fun. I know Wyddr said he made some mistakes and his psychic rolls were flat, but he didn't pull any punches with his play, so you pulling off a narrow victory was extremely impressive for a new git.

Some comments;

I completely agree with the need to be more aggressive with the boyz. Orks need to get stuck into combat asap, even shoota boyz.

Having the lootas and shock attack gun in the same unit made your opponents target priority easier. Being an ordinance weapon forces the whole unit to be stationary as well. In a larger army, you would have other juicier targets for him to focus on, but at a small points game, they were just too good to ignore. I would throw him in a unit of grots for the extra wounds and hide him far away, but with good line of sight. The lootas could have been much further away too, having such great long range.

The kans could have been further back too, but his guys are very quick to get into close combat. Splitting them into two groups units would be ideal, but you have three heavy slots filled. The big shootas on the dread don't give you much. If you get the points, extra klaws are fantastic.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Roboknee77 on August 19, 2016, 09:53:15 AM
Thanks, I was kind of surprised I managed to pull this one out too.

I do think he had bad luck on the warp storm rolls but most of his powers did get enough successes to work, usually with one or two successes to spare.

I agree about the loota and S.A.G.  In this low point game it was tough to fit a lot of stuff in, so I figured I'd keep the ordenance together.  In the future, hell yeah I'm going to surround him with grots.  That's like 10 points of ablative armor, or more if I have the points.

I'm finding the Orks have a lot of ways to fill up the limited amount of heavy slots.  I think part of the issues in this game was the terrain.  I think it looked cool but it limited space and line of sight a lot.

The next battle against Wyddr will be 1,000 points so I'll have more to play with, so I might add another Clamp to Francis and maybe a Skorcha.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: dog_of_war on August 19, 2016, 05:49:05 PM
Once we get you to a particular points level, we can start combining army lists  to give you even more heavy slots. If you have four troops and two hq you can split them into two combined arms detachments which unlocks six heavy slots for you. Much more advanced army building, but it is really key for a lot of ork players.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: SKEETERGOD on August 24, 2016, 07:31:36 AM
Well, a great batrep, good to see the orks in action.
As you have found out orks die by the handful, so that is why the best upgrade for an ork is more orks...

The shoota boys should be in a truck, so you can drive around and do some drive by shootings, great fun. Make sure to give the truck a grot for the it will not die rule, and the truck will last all game (unless your dice roll too low).

OH, wait, your a kan wall player   :'(  Get the shoota boys a nob with the big choppa and use the boys as wounds to get the nob into combat. Two squads of 12-15 shoota boys is a great way to play. 24-30 shots even with bs2 will get something. Make sure that your nice and close so the boys don't miss too much, and what doesn't get killed by shooting you can charge and give em a good ol fashioned krumpin.

As for the kans, always have a unit of boys nearby to bail them out of trouble. The grotzookas are great weapons (for orks) and this should be the only shooty unit you use that doesn't get into combat until it is time to take an objective.

I also agree with the above posters, the mek should be split off into his own squad. Put the lootas is a battle wagon for rolling cover. Make the mek with his wdtd (what does this do?) gun in a empty spot with some grots so he doesn't blow up any boys. I have had terrible luck with the shock attack gun, and so I took it off the mek and made him into a kustom model with other weapons.

As for going faster, I recommend that you get buggies before death coptas. Kit them out with TL rockits and go blow stuff up. They have the same outflank as the coptas with the advantage of not taking LD tests after one of them dies. Sure coptas have a jink save but unless you have "special" dice the coptas will take one or two casualties and then leave the board. While buggies will stay till the last drop of squig juice. Plus you can give buggies skorchas (rockits are better) to roll around a flame stuff is great fun, and after a three or four template skorching, your opponent will make that unit a priority to kill and leave the rest of your army untouched. So you can then get nice and close to give them a krumping.

Congrats on a good game and may you have many more good krumpings
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: Roboknee77 on August 25, 2016, 09:08:52 AM
As it is only my 5th or 6th battle I'm still trying things out.  I can't say that I'm a kan wall player or a KOS player as of now.

I liked the Kans.  I saw them as a mobile artillery unit that could survive longer in assault than the mek gunz, which they did.  And yeah, keeping them out of assault would have mean grotzooka blasts.  Those were fun the turn they got off.  The downside was they ate up over twice as many points as the mek gunz.  But now that I've used them, I have a better idea of what they can and can't do from experience.  And I have the option to take them so I can maybe surprise my opponent by shaking up what I take into a fight.

Now that I'm getting into some slightly higher point games, more trukks and a battle wagon seem like good options.  I've done trukks, poorly, in one or two battles and they did help me cross the field of battle a bit more quickly.  We'll have to see.

I also think I will try the Big Mek with grots tactic.  I really want to see that thing in action at least once.  But in the end, I think it may not be great in a lower point game.

Good to hear more about the Kooptas vs. Buggies.  I've read similar things about the pros and cons of each one, especially the leadership tests required of kooptas.

Now here's a question, what do you guys think of Flash Gits?  It looks like they've got respectable range, a more reliable amount of shots each turn than lootas, and the possibility of a better BS when they don't move.
Title: Re: New Git
Post by: dog_of_war on August 25, 2016, 09:44:13 AM
Taking the koptas as individuals really negates the need for leadership tests and the ability to take the buzzsaw makes them a killer assault unit as well. The buggies armour is a slight advantage over the toughness of the koptas, but they are much more survivable with their armour save and ability to jink.

Instead of buggies, I would just take a trukk as a dedicated transport unit, but drive it around without the passengers. It's five more points than the buggy, but you get an extra hull point and is considered an objective secured unit, as it's taken with a troop choice. You can also pick up passengers in the late game to zoom them to where they need to be.

As for the Flash Gitz, they are expensive for an ork army and take up a very precious heavy slot. Their strength is no better than a big shoota and you may get better AP, but maybe not. With their poor armour save and need to be close to the enemy with their shorter range, I would take the same points in lootas over them any day. Eight lootas have a 66.6% chance of have the same number of shots or better than five Flash Gitz and a 50% chance of being the same or better AP. With double the range and a two higher weapon strength, they are a superior choice as a shooting unit. Now the Flash Gitz do have an additional wound, attack, and strength, but if you are looking to get them into close combat, there are way better options in the codex to choose from. The gitfinda does give the a better BS, but if an ork is remaining stationary 24" from the enemy, there's something wrong with that ork.