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The Armies of 40k => Tyranids => Topic started by: Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown on September 28, 2012, 11:09:06 AM

Title: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown on September 28, 2012, 11:09:06 AM
All in all though the changes have been very positive and made the game a lot more dynamic, allowing for more variations and in general a lot more entertainment. Certain races do suffer a bit from the shift from close combat but hopefully this will be solved with close combat units dropping a bit in points and in general a lot more emphasis on shooting when their codex comes around this edition.

See now, this is what I'm concerned about. I don't want Tyranids to become more ranged-emphasized, it doesn't make sense for how the army is supposed to operate. Tyranids, like Orks, are about close combat for the most part (I'm not saying exclusively, but close combat is a major part of how the army should work), and they should continue to be like this even in an edition when the balance of shooting to combat has been redressed. And I have to say it has been, as people have been saying shooting has become a much more viable way to win games now than in 5th which was very combat-focused, and that's how it ought to be
Title: Re: Re: 6th edition; The state of play
Post by: Killing Time on September 28, 2012, 11:19:41 AM
I agree with Chuckles that some armies should be able to rely solely on close combat without it being an issue.
With the primary rule set having switched in favour of shooting, it thus becomes up to the individual codices to include rules to allow them to maintain their focus on cc.

Codex specific, army wide special rules such as Power From Pain and Instinctive Behaviour are the way to address this.
I can certainly envisage a Tyranid rule that states that when a unit receives casualties from overwatch they increase their random charge distance by 1" per wound taken.
Obviously that's a pretty random idea off the top of my head, but it's an idea of the way forward in this edition.
Title: Re: Re: 6th edition; The state of play
Post by: Killing Time on September 28, 2012, 11:50:41 AM
There's something primeval about the image of an endless horde of gribbly monsters bounding towards an entrenched position with fangs bared and jaws slavering.

Yes, it's more interesting to have a codex that allows players to construct an army in a variety of ways.
But if you're going to single any one of the 40k races out for an ability to go pure cc then it would have to be Nids.

What I don't want to see is Nids being able to take assault grenades or their equivalent.
This is lazy and frankly doesn't represent the idea that you might fend off each new monster as it climbs over the barricade, but sooner or later one of them is going to drag you down with it.

6th ed represents a real watershed in my view, with a willingness to adopt more complexity in order to best simulate the 40k environment.
What I'd like to see is each successive codex working within this framework to produce armies that have true individuality alongside a game-wide balance.
Title: Re: Re: 6th edition; The state of play
Post by: Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown on September 28, 2012, 12:30:57 PM
Let's be clear here: I'm not saying Tyranids should not be able to shoot. They have always been an army with some surprisingly effective ranged firepower and I want to see that continue. I also want to see that return to the old days when Tyranid firepower was effective, but unorthodox. However, what I don't want is for Tyranids to be limited to victory through shooting, which is pretty much what they are now, in a competitive or non-competitive environment.

armies that focus too strongly on close combat are quite boring to play against

Would you not say that the same is true of armies that focus too strongly on ranged firepower? I certainly would. I'm not against shooting stuff by any means (it's the only way I can get hard), but Tyranids shouldn't be an army dedicated to victory through shooting.

I'd also like to point out that you seem to believe that Tyranids are a potent close combat force at the moment. I would like to disabuse you of this notion. They suck at close combat right now against any army besides Tau.

What I don't want to see is Nids being able to take assault grenades or their equivalent.
This is lazy and frankly doesn't represent the idea that you might fend off each new monster as it climbs over the barricade, but sooner or later one of them is going to drag you down with it.

I'd love to know how you would try to make Tyranids (let's not just focus on the one race here people. I know I brought it up but Tyranids aren't the only race that have an issue with this, Chaos Daemons and even Eldar are in the same boat) effective in close combat without giving them assault grenades or equivalent. You could go back to the old Catalyst rules that let you strike back even after you die but that would turn every Tyranid combat unit into a suicide squad, so it would just replace one problem with a different one. It also wastes the high Initiative that most Tyranid combat specialists have, and pay a price for.

To be quite honest I think reinstating flesh hooks, or some similar option, is really the only viable way to get Tyranids back into an effective fighting force. When most of your combat specialists are less durable than an Eldar Guardian or an Ork boy, you pretty much have to strike first in combat, or at least have the chance to, in order to get things to work.

I'd be down for something like increased access to psychic powers across the army, and having the primaris power grant the effect of assault grenades (plus something else to make it more worthwhile), to increase the need for Tyranid units to rely on one another.
Title: Re: Re: 6th edition; The state of play
Post by: Killing Time on September 28, 2012, 12:44:52 PM
I'd love to know how you would try to make Tyranids (let's not just focus on the one race here people. I know I brought it up but Tyranids aren't the only race that have an issue with this, Chaos Daemons and even Eldar are in the same boat) effective in close combat without giving them assault grenades or equivalent. You could go back to the old Catalyst rules that let you strike back even after you die but that would turn every Tyranid combat unit into a suicide squad, so it would just replace one problem with a different one. It also wastes the high Initiative that most Tyranid combat specialists have, and pay a price for.

To a greater or lesser extent Tyranid units should be suicide squads.
That's very much the ethos of the smaller gribblies; that you run out of bullets before they run out of bodies.
Their durability comes from their numbers.

Now granted this doesn't quite hold true for Warriors or Genestealers etc, which is why fortified positions should be overrun with gaunts before you unleash the nasty stuff.

Title: Re: Re: 6th edition; The state of play
Post by: Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown on September 28, 2012, 12:48:04 PM
Well according to a rumour I've heard from a pretty reliable source (naming no names of course, nor dropping hints of any kind to avoid getting people in trouble), the first 8 or so 40K codices are pretty much written already. The logic goes, from what I've been told, that they will try to limit Codex Creep by developing them all alongside each other as much as possible, so each new book doesn't consist of counters to the unbalanced crap that accidentally made it into the previous one. We'll see how that goes... or even if it's true.

To a greater or lesser extent Tyranid units should be suicide squads.
That's very much the ethos of the smaller gribblies; that you run out of bullets before they run out of bodies.
Their durability comes from their numbers.

Doesn't work if the entire unit is wiped out from the first combat they get into. All that does is encourage your opponent to run into them with stuff he doesn't mind losing, or is fairly confident he won't lose in too great numbers (hi GK Terminators/Paladins!) and then he doesn't have to worry about them and can focus on taking out the other stuff. It basically means that you have to run Tervigon spam to keep spawning more gaunts to replace the ones you lost, and I don't agree that any unit in any codex should be a must-take.
Title: Re: Re: 6th edition; The state of play
Post by: Killing Time on September 28, 2012, 01:12:10 PM
Well according to a rumour I've heard from a pretty reliable source (naming no names of course, nor dropping hints of any kind to avoid getting people in trouble), the first 8 or so 40K codices are pretty much written already. The logic goes, from what I've been told, that they will try to limit Codex Creep by developing them all alongside each other as much as possible, so each new book doesn't consist of counters to the unbalanced crap that accidentally made it into the previous one. We'll see how that goes... or even if it's true.

By that logic, you'd hope that Necrons would already be countered by the next set of releases.
We'll see.


Quote
Doesn't work if the entire unit is wiped out from the first combat they get into. All that does is encourage your opponent to run into them with stuff he doesn't mind losing, or is fairly confident he won't lose in too great numbers (hi GK Terminators/Paladins!) and then he doesn't have to worry about them and can focus on taking out the other stuff. It basically means that you have to run Tervigon spam to keep spawning more gaunts to replace the ones you lost, and I don't agree that any unit in any codex should be a must-take.

I agree that you shouldn't be confined to a single choice.
And I also agree that your current codex doesn't work very well.

I just think that there's the potential to make an army wide special rule along the lines of Instinctive Behaviour to get your Nids into combat without "counts as assault grenades".
Title: Re: Re: 6th edition; The state of play
Post by: Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown on September 28, 2012, 01:21:09 PM
I just think that there's the potential to make an army wide special rule along the lines of Instinctive Behaviour to get your Nids into combat without "counts as assault grenades".

Do you have any thoughts as to what?

I'm not trying to be difficult here and I can see where you're coming from, but I'm also trying to be realistic about how this could be achieved. I can't think of any solution to this problem that doesn't amount to giving them counts as assault grenades.
Title: Re: Re: 6th edition; The state of play
Post by: Benis on September 28, 2012, 01:30:17 PM
Would you not say that the same is true of armies that focus too strongly on ranged firepower? I certainly would. I'm not against shooting stuff by any means (it's the only way I can get hard), but Tyranids shouldn't be an army dedicated to victory through shooting.

Not necessarily, it depends on what you mean by "ranged firepower" but ideally an army should be able to make use of all phases and be strong in two of them. Armies such as Tau that focus on ranged firepower though is still interesting due to the fact that range forces them to use mobility to get the most out of their shooting. But yes, a gunline army is just as boring as an all close combat army in my opinion.

I'd also like to point out that you seem to believe that Tyranids are a potent close combat force at the moment. I would like to disabuse you of this notion. They suck at close combat right now against any army besides Tau.

I have no such notion, what I meant is more in proportion to itself than in any sort of balance; basically that it would, in my opinion, be better if a new balanced and good Tyranid codex did contain a bit more shooting elements. Yes, they should win through close combat but without ways to reach out and manipulate the opponent through shooting all you get is an army that relies on rushing the opponent and those fights, while tight and sometimes thrilling, are usually predicable and in the long run boring.
Title: Re: Re: 6th edition; The state of play
Post by: Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown on September 28, 2012, 01:34:18 PM
The thing is, Tyranids have plenty of shooting now. There are a grand total of 4 units (not counting special characters) in the Tyranid codex who do not have the capacity to take a ranged weapon at all. The current, 6th ed optimised best (many say almost only) Tyranid build is centred on Hive Guard, and Tervigons crapping out lots of termagants. All of those things can shoot, and in 6th edition, using the current codex, that's mostly what they do. Termagants buffed by a Tervigon are a semi-potent combat force if given some psychic support, but they're still hardly great. I am having serious trouble seeing how Tyranids need to be made any more of a shooty army than they currently are.
Title: Re: Re: 6th edition; The state of play
Post by: Killing Time on September 28, 2012, 01:39:54 PM
I just think that there's the potential to make an army wide special rule along the lines of Instinctive Behaviour to get your Nids into combat without "counts as assault grenades".

Do you have any thoughts as to what?

I'm not trying to be difficult here and I can see where you're coming from, but I'm also trying to be realistic about how this could be achieved. I can't think of any solution to this problem that doesn't amount to giving them counts as assault grenades.

Well I've already given one example of how Gaunts might get a longer charge if you overwatch at them would be easy enough to implement. This would allow you to get into combat quicker or make people hesitate to shoot you up as you charge.

Another idea would be a biomorph that allowed Nids to assault into cover at an initiative penalty of -1 or -2 (or whatever).
This way you're still using your high Initiative as in many cases you'll still be going before or at least simultaneously, but it also means that manning the walls to bayonet the ravening hordes is still the sensible thing to do as they can't bypass it entirely.
It's not assault grenades, but it's not suicide either.
Title: Re: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: Halollet on October 11, 2012, 07:30:01 PM
I think having unit specific rules would work.

Giving flesh hooks to MCs, maybe to warriors as well.

Hormaguants could use their bounding leap to fire themselves toward the enemy at terrifying speeds.  Bouncing off of walls and trees and some even going over the head of enemies as they leap into melee.  Units assaulted by hormaguants gain no benefits from being in cover.

Termagaunts could be dropped in points or have a new termagaunt swarm unit.

Termagaunt swarm; Theses are termagaunts that haven't fully developed.  They have like ws and bs of 2, ld of 2.  No weapon options, maybe just have like spinefists or some new weak weapon.  Like a laspistol.  Otherwise the same.  Maybe get like 10 of them for like 35 points.

Raveners could have the option of burrowing in and out of the ground allowing them to assault from underground.  They assault and deny cover and also move through units when assaulting and could avoid overwatch.

Gargoyles' spitting could act like assault grenades

A venomthropes's poison could be extra thick and nasty when its close making it hard to see and function.  Acting like assault grenades and maybe having to take a toughness test in order to get to use overwatch.

Trygon's power and size could ignore any cover where its armour is less then 13.

Pyrovores could get to overwatch when they assault which causes wounds and that counts as assault grenades as well.

Maybe stuff like that!
Title: Re: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: BritishBill on October 12, 2012, 12:13:47 AM
Folks,

As I think about the Tyranid army that I am evolving I realise that it is progressing exactly along the lines that Chuckles suggested, except for me I use Zoanthropes instead of Hive Guard but am still using Tervigons and Termagaunts as troops with my beloved genestealers now gathering dust.

The key thing to fix as far as I am concerned is to get the smaller combat specialists such as Genestealers and Hormagaunts back up to being good choices. One way is to make them so much better once they get into combat, but that doesn't stop them getting killed on the way in, the other way is to make them more durable getting into combat to begin with. I think I would like to address the latter method.

Two mechanisms that strike me would be to give the whole army the Shroud Special Rule so that they effectively have a portable 5++ cover save against shooting. Call it a camouflage if you like, we would then have to give something a bit extra to the now much neglected lictors. You might even want to decide that units lose this ability if they themselves shoot in their turn. The other possibility would be to say that any models within synapse range automatically have the Feel No Pain Special Rule. I like this idea even better given the nature of the army, but it does not then favor our close combat troops over our shooting troops. The feel no pain rule should also apply to the synapse creature itself and might even apply to each wound the synapse creature has, but that would probably be taking things too far. Maybe there is a combination of Shroud during the process of moving the unit and feel no pain for units in Synapse range and in close combat. The idea that whatever you do a third of those genestealers are going to standup after your shooting phase and then attack you with the equivalent of a 5++ invulnerable save would start to gain them a little more respect.

All good thoughts I believe, but unless somebody in GW feels the same way, we will have to continue with our Zoanthropes or Hive Guards and our Tervigons.

Thanks for reading.

PS - Just thought of one other way to favor Close Combat Troops, allow Tervigon to Spawn Basic Hormagaunts as well as basic Termagaunts. With that option and the other buffs suggested above, the idea that there is a wave of Hormagaunts getting slaughtered but into close combat and tying up opposing units until the stonger units get into contact starts to become viable.
Title: Re: Re: 6th edition; The state of play
Post by: Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown on October 15, 2012, 07:39:03 AM
Well I've already given one example of how Gaunts might get a longer charge if you overwatch at them would be easy enough to implement. This would allow you to get into combat quicker or make people hesitate to shoot you up as you charge.

Another idea would be a biomorph that allowed Nids to assault into cover at an initiative penalty of -1 or -2 (or whatever).
This way you're still using your high Initiative as in many cases you'll still be going before or at least simultaneously, but it also means that manning the walls to bayonet the ravening hordes is still the sensible thing to do as they can't bypass it entirely.
It's not assault grenades, but it's not suicide either.

I had a thought the other day. How about a biomorph, upgrade or special rule of some kind that grants units Hammer of Wrath under certain conditions? It still provides an advantage to defenders for being in cover but allows Tyranids to do some damage on the charge. If given to horde units it should even things up a little to give Tyranids a fighting chance when attacking cover
Title: Re: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: Guildmage Arcas on October 15, 2012, 08:25:06 AM
That could really well actually. The other option would be that a model still makes its attacks even if killed to represent the hive mind pushing creatures to keep fighting as they die. Would make combats much messier.

At least now fearless doesn't cause the whole unit to evaporate should they lose, previously it was awful.

There used to be rules for gaunt units recycling, it wasn't that good as it was expensive and bringing hormagaunts on from your own table edge on turn 4 wasn't exactly going to contribute much to the game. If it were fixed and either used outflank to show more little gribblies being drawn to the fight that might work...
Title: Re: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown on October 15, 2012, 08:29:53 AM
That could really well actually. The other option would be that a model still makes its attacks even if killed to represent the hive mind pushing creatures to keep fighting as they die. Would make combats much messier.

You're a Sisters of Battle player, tell me; how has that approach worked for Sisters Repentia? They're a must-take unit now are they?

Catalyst used to have that effect, and while it was in place at a time when assault grenades weren't quite so crucial to combat units, it was still considered utterly useless. I'm not completely against the idea, but I don't think it's a great solution.
Title: Re: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: Guildmage Arcas on October 15, 2012, 08:35:02 AM
Point taken on sister repentia, an ability relying on units being killed isn't a terribly useful thing in all honesty.

How about old style frags? Allowing simulatious combat instead of initiative order? Granted because bugs run on all fours (sixes) and then jump the cover...
Title: Re: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: Chuckles, The Space Marine Clown on October 15, 2012, 08:37:35 AM
Indeed.

The latter idea isn't the worst in the world, though it's pretty close to the Sisters Repentia thing. Can you see any downsides to Hammer of Wrath?
Title: Re: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: Guildmage Arcas on October 15, 2012, 09:21:42 AM
The only real downside to hammer of wath is that it's not a big deal. As it requires base contact and happens before pile in you're not likely to get a whole units worth of attacks simply due to your own models blocking the way.

I think it'll take more than half a dozen str three attacks to fix the problem. Although I can't think of a better idea...
 
Title: Re: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: Killing Time on October 15, 2012, 01:30:07 PM
I like the idea of the old frag grenade rule of going on initiative.
But call it Ravenous Assault or something as it represents the bug swarm tearing down the defenders even as they're taking a bayonet to the face.
Title: Re: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: wper34 on October 19, 2012, 04:46:15 PM
I had a thought the other day. How about a biomorph, upgrade or special rule of some kind that grants units Hammer of Wrath under certain conditions? It still provides an advantage to defenders for being in cover but allows Tyranids to do some damage on the charge. If given to horde units it should even things up a little to give Tyranids a fighting chance when attacking cover

The only real downside to hammer of wath is that it's not a big deal. As it requires base contact and happens before pile in you're not likely to get a whole units worth of attacks simply due to your own models blocking the way.

I think it'll take more than half a dozen str three attacks to fix the problem. Although I can't think of a better idea...
 

Actually, I don't think 'Hammer of Wrath' would be a good idea mainly due to unbalance issue in gameplay...

Imagine a scenario of 3-5 units each with 30 Hormaguants multiple charging several small enemy units at once. Sure, some may not make it to the targets due to overwatch, but for those that made it, there is a high potential of them wiping out a fair chunk of the enemy first with 'Hammer of Wrath' before they get struck back. The situation could be even worst for the case where Nids player decide to perform isolated attacks on a few units rather than multi-charging.

In order to make Combat Nids army work again, I think we could probably do the following:

- Make Hormaguants being 'Beast' type again -> able to move faster to be where they want before assault
- Allow or make Genestealers having 4+ armour saves -> increase survivability against overwatch


Additionally, I think the idea of old frag grenade rule does not sound too bad either as a solution.
Title: Re: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: Master Bio-Titan BT on November 27, 2012, 08:20:27 AM
Well, I say that if you can't beat them then join them!  I made two units of spore dropping Devil-Gants and they do really well especially when deploying them into cover out of the spore!  These two units make up the compulsory requirements for two Troop Tervigons'.  Because of the decreased effectiveness of Hormagaunts, I am play testing them without upgrades and rush them forward as usual for distraction and to save on points.
Title: Re: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: faitherun (Fay-ith-er-run) on November 27, 2012, 11:38:27 AM
I think we need some new tricks to get around/counter the new meta. To this effect, I created a thread in the Forge on trying to fix Lictors.

Lictors for 6th; trying to fix them (http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=224765.msg2712537#msg2712537)

While not all the ideas there may be good, I think this is the way we need to evolve.

I think we need a new psychic table as well - some powers there to really helps us out.

Perhaps a power that is kind-of a Lash of Submission, but geared for assault instead...

Bad Ass Name of New Power
The cover that the enemy holds grows tendrils and grubs crawling all over it. This is a witchfire power that automatically hits if the psychic test is passed. The unit may not gain the benefits of cover when being charged this turn

Just a few ideas - Will try and dredge up some more...
Title: Re: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: Locarno on November 27, 2012, 02:01:40 PM
To be honest, I see the bugs as falling into three categories;

Flesh hooks - I have no problem with flesh hooks working as offensive grenades. However, they shouldn't be handed out like candy to everyone. Lictors having them is fine, but I don't want to see them universally issued because they shouldn't be. Not every bug species uses flesh hooks.

Gaunts - Termagant or Hormagaunt, these guys don't need grenades. They just don't. I concur that not having grenades means you'll take extra casualties assaulting a defensible position, but to my mind, fair enough. These are, as someone said, meant to be "you run out of bullets before I run out of bodies". Make them a point or more cheaper - so a brood of the same cost can just ignore the casualties - rather than giving them grenade-a-likes. The best upgrade for a hormagaunt is another one behind it, and its main protection is putting another one in front of it...

Genestealers - now here (unlike the disposable bugs) I see Chuckle's point. These are supposed to be the elite, lightning-fast ninja alien killing machines of Space Hulk, and the presence of someone's waist-high herbacious border shouldn't leave them striking after necrons. Equally, whilst they could do with being cheaper, making them cheap enough to ignore the casualties dilutes their elite feel relative to the smaller bugs above, and makes them stupidly overpowered if they do actually catch someone in the open.

Genestealers should be (a) fast, (b) encouraged to stick to the shadows and ruins xenomorph stylee and (c) able to dash out of said shadows and remove your vocal chords before you can yell "contact front!". I therefore propose a nice, simple rule for them:

Genestealers ignore difficult terrain.

No difficult terrain, no reduced charge distance and no initiative 1. Problem goes away at source and you are able to move around the bits of the board which are a genestealer's natural environment as a side benefit.





Title: Re: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: Benis on November 27, 2012, 04:24:42 PM
I agree with Locarno's points, but it wouldn't hurt for Hormaguants to have some sort of rule that helps them engage more completely even with a big unit, something like they used to have (I think?) with increased range for being able to supply their attacks or some such.
Title: Re: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: Raktra (So long, I guess) on November 27, 2012, 05:11:05 PM
Per the BDB FAQ, even if you ignore terrain, you still suffer the I penalty, so they'd still need some grenade alternative.
Title: Re: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: Autarch Fingolfin on November 27, 2012, 05:53:43 PM
well that's why you give the genestealers a special rule that allows them to strike at full init and ignore the terrain.  Howling Banshee masks ignore the initiative penalty when assaulting through cover so there's already a precedent.
Title: Re: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: Guildmage Arcas on November 27, 2012, 06:29:20 PM
If gaunts got the rule to be engaged at 4" instead of the normal amount that would make a big mob able to mob stuff more. I agree with locarno's point that they aren't be made too good individually. Appropriately cheaper points cost for a light combat gribbley in a shooting guns world should be made.

I also like the fix for genestealers, yes it would have to be 'ignores cover plus' but it could work really well. I was also thinking about allowing them an exception allowing them to outflank and assault. Currently "outflank and stand around like goons" is a rather poor option!
Title: Re: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: xrayman on November 29, 2012, 07:13:43 PM
Ouch.  I haven't played with the Nids with the 6th edition yet.  Doesn't sound very promising.
Title: Re: Tyranids - fix or fire? (Was Re: 6th edition; The state of play)
Post by: Hive Fleet Bahamut on November 29, 2012, 09:36:01 PM
So far in this edition I've only played against variations of gk and a marine or two, so unfortunately I haven't been able to experience the xenos blood.  My experiences though seem to show a lot of promise in our shooting support.  We are a race that adapts and overcomes, and although everyone says cc is dead, our methods are just...  Different.

  I jumped on the wagon and dropped Genestealers for a while, but my love for them made it so they have seen some action.  I can no longer outflank rush, but really I see them as our new counter assault unit.  Broodlord plus 5 or so "extra wounds" is really my new take on them.  Sure they get shot to ribbons if they are out of cover, but as counter assault they will always have something running ahead.  Strike Squads/Paladins are more hesitant to bump your Tervigants off their objective if Genes are itching nearby.  It also clears up the issue of no grenades on our elite cc unit, because as counter assault they don't need any and can beneift from their full speed.  Also Ymgarls just make me smile all the time.

I just picked up my second Tervi, and will be buying a Flyrant/Swarmy kit hoping to magnetize for both.  I already have one Flyrant and have always loved my conversion but it saw little action in 5th.  I have yet to see a Flyer so it has pretty much seen free reign the one game I used it.  My MVP is usually the Swarmlord, the Doom or Devilgants. 

I like most of the changes in this edition.  some of them are bad, and others just make us adjust, (YOU ARE PLAYING TYRANIDS RIGHT??)  I could care less about assault grenades, as my fodder is my grenade.  MC get cover everywhere? Great.  Hive Guard not crammed down your throat to not get mopped?  Good I only have one squad.  One word: BIOMANCY. (Swarmlord +Iron Arm and Warp Speed = Dead Draigowing, and that's a top tier deathstar no?)

Ok I admit, I did like All reserves, and the stupid no allies/forti usage should at least equate to not having to accept challenges.  Other than that though I think we at least bumped up a tier if anything.  Maybe I just need to see some more flyers?