Topic: SMurfs!!!

[Baldybob_nz]

I am currently have this problem when i battle a mates SM army. He tends to max out his heavy weapon choices with Devastator  squads and is content on having at least 1 heavy weapon in every troops squad. The problem doesn't bug me unitl we acually start to battle. With the starting distance so great, my units aren't able to reach his units until the 2nd or 3rd turn. If i have to unfortunate luck of not starting, my army get completely hammered by his heavy weapons (limited scernery), so when it finally gets around to my 1st turn i have lost 3 raiders, 1 ravager, 4 reavers, and 3 hellions. Pretty much i have no easy movement because all my men are still in their deployment zone. The long slog across to board isn't helped by the SM standing ground and not moving at all. This helps him because he can fire all his heavy weaopns again, until all my main transport and fast attack have been destroyed. The only unit that he moves in the first 2 turn is his Terminators. By the time i have moved in 2 turns his terminator are ready to fight my small depleted squads of wyches and warriors.     If anyone has any ideas to help me survive at least 3 turns i would appreciate them.

AJ

[Archon d'Veillo]

Ack!
Makes me want to throw up as I read that.  I remember feeling that way many times.
If you play on a large table, 54" or better, then you can sit back and let him come to you.  His power armor allows him to slog forward.  When he does so you pick him off with Disintegrators.  Also, Deepstrike a Ravager up his Devistators butt and unleash the wonders of Str7 Ap2.
Remember that you use a paper army. Confuse him, abuse him, taunt him, whatever it takes.  
Shady might have a tactica for wyches as well.

[Rhysk]

I really think you need to balance out the terrain a little bit more...

Then start playing some scenerios that force both player to move, I.E. Cleanse.

I have found that these two in combination force SM players to balance out their forces quite quickly. Especially when they can't see you so they move, then you move and they still can't see you snicker.

You have to have terrain though. That is a must.

[Seer Questel]

yes......
Curse those hadsome devils!

the problem i see hear, is he keeps shooting you.(well duh)

 from the sound of it u dont have much terrain, but you should still be able to simply hop from one hull down position to another.
Even if it is a little of course.

sorry if that was useless to u, i donno to much about DE

[Archon Xanath]

Ideally you should be able to use terrain for cover, and lay down suppressive fire to close with the enemy.

Unfortunately, it sounds like this isn't working for you.  The solution is to bring your own terrain.  Field 5-man Raider squads with no upgrades, whose sole purpose is to move in front of the Archon's and Wyches' Raiders, blocking his line of sight for the heavy weapons.

It's a little wasteful, but it works a hell of a lot better than beating your head on a brick wall (which sounds like what you're doing).

sorry if that was useless to u, i donno to much about DE

So you posted why?

AX

[Kei'Ariq]

Just spend some time building terrain for your games. Most players prefer gaming on tables with an adequate amount of terrain, even if the ideal situation for their army would be a barren plain.

[zeno]

What's this guy got that's shoots so far?  

Ok, my advice:
Start as close as possible...  If you get the first placed unit, and it's heavy support, stick a talose as close as you can to opponent deployment..  If it's a quarters match, then right at your center corner..  This does 2 things, it causes him to bunch his army together, and it affords you the scenery cover in the more central parts of the map..  

Take a few warrior squads on foot with a wych squad behind..  SPREAD THEM OUT...  2" apart, and keep them that way as they move closer...  It's scary looking and will draw lots of fire...  

The rest of the army should attack on one side, and one side only..  CC blocks LOS..  So do that..  Reavers moving 24" farward will also cause a huge distraction..  

And finally...  3 raiders, 1 ravager, 4 reavers, and 3 hellions in one turn?  you either play huge armies, or your opponent is splitting up his fire..  If his devistators shoot, they MUST SHOOT AT ONLY ONE UNIT..  they can NOT split fire to more than one unit...

For you, I would try to tie up the devistator squads with reavers or block LOS with CC to other units between them and your ravager..  Try to get the larger CC oriented squads with your ravager first, then if your reavers get killed off in CC, deal with the devastators..  Only take 6 incubi to save points, and get them into combat ASAP..  if they get shot down, hide behind the foot shloging warriors..  

[Archon Xanath]

Take a few warrior squads on foot with a wych squad behind..  SPREAD THEM OUT...  2" apart, and keep them that way as they move closer...  It's scary looking and will draw lots of fire...  

You realize that if you spread the Warriors out, they don't block LOS to the Wyches, right?  In order to effectively screen the Wyches from enemy fire, you have to pack the Warriors base to base, or stagger them in lines very carefully to completely block LOS with the models.

AX

[Reaver's Blade]

Then stagger them very carefully...  It's not that hard.  Zeno's advice is good, do what he says    
Try to screen as many units as you can with warriors, his heavy weapons cost a lot of points, and dont make them up very fast if they kill an 8 point model a turn.

[Pendragon]

First off, if you are not playing with much terrain, you should be playing with the rule that downed vehicles become permanant terrian pieces.

Second, play scenarios. Most of the time this will favor you if there is an attacker. Some times it doesn't. It will however force the smurf player to do some movement and this definitely favors you.

Third, you need to play with some mandrakes or scourges or both. This will let you move over and hold down those annoying Dev squads. It also helps with cleanse to contest table corners.

Fourth, drop the hellions and play with bikes. You can use these guys to get over really fast and take some heat off of your raiders.

Fifth, the small raider squads mentioned earlier are great for taking the heat off of vehicles that you do not want shot and can be sacced to provide the above mentioned cover.

You may consider some basic flanking moves so that only a portion of his army can shoot at you. I am unsure of the actual terrain you have or how big your board is. These may sound like little things but a little here and a little there add up to alot. Try them out and let us know how it went.

[Blood Archon]

Deep strike. Much, much deep strike. Hellions, Scourge, and sometimes even a raider or ravager with screaming jets is good. then they don't get to shoot u. HAHAHA!!!

[Blood Archon]

Oh yeah, can units ASSAULT on the turn they deep strike? I know they can't MOVE. Just curious.

[Shady]

They can't. 'Tis a shame. Understandable though...

Maybe you can try the haunted woods tactic... (one small Raider squad with a Sybarite carrying a WWP, deploy guys as close to the enemy as possible but inside some woods or so and the Raider somewhere else, open WWP on first turn.) At least that should keep him from firing on your stuff the first turn...

[Baldybob_nz]

What's this guy got that's shoots so far?  

And finally...  3 raiders, 1 ravager, 4 reavers, and 3 hellions in one turn?  you either play huge armies, or your opponent is splitting up his fire..  If his devistators shoot, they MUST SHOOT AT ONLY ONE UNIT..  they can NOT split fire to more than one unit...
 

My mate tends to have 2 devstators squads and 6 troops which all contain at least one heavy weapon (rocket launchers, etc..).
While he uses his troops as "heavy squads" and devastator to hold the ground, he lets his fast attack ( bikes, landspeeders, attack bikes and assult troops) and his elites (terminators)

The scenery we play with is quite big and there is lots of it, its just that with any of the places i place my raiders to get them in a hull down posistion, he has a squad which can see me without a hull down.

The army size we tend to play with varys from 1500-2500. I have tried to use wwp and deep strick but i have found that by the time my extra men enter through the portal, the rest of my army are in pieces or very small squads of 4-5.
But on the other note, it has worked for one squad of 15 wyches.(hehe) My mate got a nasty shock because he thourght that they were still on the raider in the deployment zone. good old wyches ate through 3 squads of SM before meeting a squad of terminators.

Thakns for all your feedback and helpful idea, much appreciated.

AJ

[Culeagh]

The scenery we play with is quite big and there is lots of it, its just that with any of the places i place my raiders to get them in a hull down posistion, he has a squad which can see me without a hull down.

Forget hull down. You've got a bunch of fast skimmers. Move them more than 6" a turn and you're as good as hull down. That means you'll never suffer a penetrating hit if you move at least 6" a turn.

Screen the important raiders with un-important raiders. When they crash leave them on the table to use as cover. This is a legitimate use of the raider. Use all of your fast attack to hit a single concentrated area off to one side of the battle, the weak side. This should be your 'beach head'. The rest of your stuff can go here and have an easier time of it.

Forget firing your warrior squad dark lances. Move forward as fast as possible, fleet of foot. A couple of dark lance shots here and there won't matter much anyway. You've got to close the distance. Your going to have to try to get him with mass small arms fire, splinter cannons and hand to hand. The more saving throws he has to take the more he can fail.

But on the other note, it has worked for one squad of 15 wyches

If it worked before, it might work again. Consider using the WWP for the wyches, attached to a raider squad sybarite or HQ.

If you do actually get  the first turn and move everything forward as much as possible he'll have the terrific feeling of being overwhelmed. That might force a mistake.

[Baldybob_nz]

Thanks for all your input  

Much appreiated

AJ