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Offline Dux Aurelius Elysius

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1.5k Mostly Footslogger: Craftworld Saim-Shelwe
« on: April 11, 2008, 10:11:15 AM »
Saim-Shelwe (or the Song of Knowledge) was a Craftworld that was caught in a great space battle, unable to avoid the oscillating path of a long since forgotten Tyranid hivefleet.  Although the Craftworld's defensive naval fleet fought off the aggressors, it's engines were damaged and it was left adrift in in the reaches of the galaxy's outer rim.  Floating undirected through space it came into the gravitational field of a Maiden World, known to Imperials as Hathis V, and was forced into a crash land.  The planet was now populated by an un-industrialised human colony.  The Eldar of Saim-Shelwe, viewing the land as rightly belonging to Eldar and the humans as trespassers, enslaved them and use them to work the land.

Similar to Spartan culture, living in a dual class system of a militarised Eldar "upper" class and subjugated human "lower" class with little intermingling.  Through a gradual straying from the traditional Eldar Path, citizens of Saim-Shelwe are highly trained soldiers who have started to become lavish and lazy compared to Eldar of other Craftworlds.  Their armed forces now work to three objectives, firstly to maintain the Eldar position as ruling class and suppress any human uprising; secondly the defense of the planet (and thus Craftworld) against any external threat, though this is mostly performed by the naval fleets; and finally through close connection to Eldar Pirating fleets, along with extensive use of the webway, to search for information and technology that will help reconstruct the Craftworld so that it may someday take to the skies once more.

As a result the military organisation of Saim-Shelwe is very different to that of other Craftworlds.  Less emphasis is placed upon specific Aspect Shrines (other than that of Asuryan with Dire Avengers forming the bulk of the Saim-Shelwe warhost) and more focus is placed upon a force well designed for city-fighting, where the majority of rioting occurs.

Autarchs are rare, with Farseers ability to psychically aid the the offensive might of the soldiers being more valued.  Wraithguard are exceedingly common compared to other Craftworlds, the souls lost during the crash of the Craftworld being put to an invaluable use within current culture however Wraithlords are sometimes found to be overly-large and ungainly to the usual purpose of the Saim-Shelwe warhost.  Striking Scorpions, with their ability to effortlessly move through cover, are also seen however combat orientated troops are unfavourable to Saim-Shelwe, for the risk their it puts the Eldar life in is generally not considered worth it.

Eldar Guardians are almost never seen in a force purely because there are so few "civilian" level Eldar, as soon as a youth comes of age he is trained at the shrine of the Dire Avengers.  Those more unruly are sent out of the Craftworld-city into the forests of Hathis V and learn to fend for themselves, living as rangers.  Often when they return they become sharp-shooting Pathfinders or are sent with the pirate fleets in search of new technology that the Bonesingers may use to resurrect the Craftworld.

Support Weapon Batteries, Dark Reapers, Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks are rarely seen, their weapons and combat style not being well suited to the city-scape combat environment that Saim-Shelwe forces are most often put to use in, however in open fields of combat they may still be known to make an appearance, at which point their devastating attacks well compliment the combat organism.

A strange element found in the atmosphere of Hathis V causes interference in the engines of skimmers and jetbikes, only prevented by the effect of the Energy Field on Wave Serpents.  Attempts to transfer this technology to Fire Prisms and Falcons have thus far failed, the Energy Field draining too much energy to also operate the vehicles weaponry.  For this reason the bulk of the Saim-Shelwe's heavy weaponry is made up by squadrons of versatile War Walkers.

After the tournament I found that Howling Banshees and Swooping Hawks had been little better than useless for most of the games.  Fire Prisms had played excellently but when re-writing the list didn't seem to fit in quite the same way.  I did, however, fall in love with War Walkers.


HQ
   Farseer      Doom, Guide   Spirit Stones, singing spear   123
   Farseer      Guide   Runes of Warding   90
Elites      
   Wraith Guard   5      175
   Spirit Seer   Enhance   Singing spear   43
   Wave Serpent      Eldar Missile Launchers, vectored engines, spirit stones   150
                  
Troops      
   Dire Avengers   10   Exarch   Bladestorm   Two shuriken catapults   152
   Dire Avengers   10   Exarch   Bladestorm   Two shuriken catapults   152
   Rangers   6      Pathfinder      144
            
                  
Heavy Support   
   War Walker Squadron   3   Na   Na   Starcannon, scatter laser, spirit stones   225
   War Walker Squadron   3   Na   Na   Eldar missile launcher, bright lance   240

Total                  1494


The first Farseer will be towards the front hiding behind the Dire Avengers, dooming target enemies and guiding Bladestorm flurries.  The second will stay to the back so that he may guide the War Walkers and piss off enemy Psykers without being in the firing line.  Rangers to take down monstrous creatures, terminators and other targets of opportunity.  The Starcannon/Scatter Laser combo I found very points effective, able to scare MEQs with the AP but also throwing out enough crap to cause failed saves and handle massed units.  The strength 6 also made them moderately good at taking down vehicles, however a second squadron I would have appreciated with more dedicated anti-tank potential.  The Wraithguard will make good task masters, taking down scary big vehicles (Monoliths, Land Raiders) that are doing a good job of staying out the way of the War Walkers, or putting the shakers on Terminator Squads or monstrous creatures, with the Warlock with Enhance to make sure they don't fail Wraithsight checks, and also to add to their durability in case they get charged.

Comments and criticism?
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Offline robdark22

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Re: 1.5k Mostly Footslogger: Craftworld Saim-Shelwe
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2008, 12:00:30 PM »
for the most part the army is too light to began with really no real armour save in the army. if you ever plan on playing this list play with some 3 plus save beside the wraithguard, even touness 6 is killable in anygame were some army ahave str above 7+ in there armys . good fluff thoe in how you were going to write the list over all but really need a slight improvement the roster build and amry armour saves over all.

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Offline Lonewolf

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Re: 1.5k Mostly Footslogger: Craftworld Saim-Shelwe
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2008, 01:41:06 PM »
Looks like a good list. Some comments though:

The single Serpent will attract most AT guns if not well hidden and will go down fast. You will also have to use the terrain well to keep those war walkers alive. Persoanlly i wouldnt put mixed weapons on them, but thats just me. For your avengers, i would prefer to let them shoot every turn, so personally would take either defend or no upgrade at all. The wraithguard are pretty much hit or miss. Even if their Serpent dosent get blown away before they reach their target, there is still a not too bad chance, that a tank will survive their volley, which is probably all they will get before either getting shot to pieces or charged by something that will take them out of the game (either by killing or keeping them in combat).

Personally i would replace the sepent and guard with a prism and another DA squad. The prism will add to your AT, while hopefully pulling away some fire from your war walkers, while an additional DA squad is nether a bad investment. Since you dont like to include a prism, a battery of vibro cannons would also do a great job at improving your AT in addition to maybe pin the odd unit.

Just some food for thought  :)


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Offline Dux Aurelius Elysius

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Re: 1.5k Mostly Footslogger: Craftworld Saim-Shelwe
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2008, 01:43:14 PM »
Points taken and some reshaping done:

HQ                                    213
   Farseer   1   Na   Doom, Guide   Spirit Stones, singing spear   123
   Farseer   1   Na   Guide   RoWard                  90   
                  
Troops                              523
   Dire Avengers   8   Exarch   Two shuriken catapults      113
   Dire Avengers   8   Exarch   Defend   Diresword      133
   Dire Avengers   8   Exarch   Defend   Diresword      133
   Rangers   6      Pathfinder               144

Fast Attack                                 284
   Warp Spiders   5   Exarch   Withdraw   Additional death spinner   142
   Warp Spiders   5   Exarch   Withdraw   Additional death spinner   142

Heavy Support      5            480
   War Walker Squadron   2   Eldar missile launcher, bright lance   160
   Fire Prism         2   Holo-fields, Spirit Stones   320
Total                  1500


I seriously enjoyed playing Fire Prisms as a pair and could include some background similar to that which they have for Revenants whereby they're piloted by quadruplets (because, you know, they're common).  Make the lack of use of Falcons and Wave Serpents due to mistrust of transporting troops in vehicles after the Craftworld crashed.  Warp Spiders will buy me some manoeuvrability along with a lot of high strength shots and should be able to take down most vehicles (rear armour!).  Dire Avengers are changed to be able to cope better if charged, especially if they get bogged down by a leader with the Diresword to add a little threat factor.

If I have twin Fire Prisms and Warp Spiders able to run anti-tank duty do you think it reasonable to drop a ranger and switch the War Walkers to a unit set up more like this:
War Walkers   3   Scatter Lasers (x2)   180
Which would better make use of guide?  Or do you think it more valuable to keep the AT capability?
I carry with me an Inquisitorial Seal. It is a small, unassuming object contained in a neat box of Pluvian obsidian. It is a modest thing. Relatively plain, adorned with a single motif and a simple motto. Yet with this little object I can sign the death warrant of an entire world and consign a billion souls to Oblivion.

Offline Shinrathir

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Re: 1.5k Mostly Footslogger: Craftworld Saim-Shelwe
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2008, 07:13:52 AM »
Ummm... shouldn't you have at least one unit that can perform well in the assault phase?  I know you've got an absolutely sick amount of Fire Power... but the enemy will close with you eventually and as it stands... I'm pretty sure you'll get owned... Defend and Direswords or not.

Also... do Warp Spiders really fit your fluff?  You said your Eldar distrust a lot of the close in Aspects as it leads to an uneccesarily high risk of death... but just BEING a  Warp Spider risks not only death... but the very soul of the Eldar with every jump they make.  Now... being fluff... only you can decide on this one really... but I just thought I'd point it out.

Anyway... it is a super-shooty list... and I'm sure you'll have loads of fun watching whole squads disappear under the onslaught.  Hope my comments helped in some way.
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Offline Talion

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Re: 1.5k Mostly Footslogger: Craftworld Saim-Shelwe
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2008, 08:41:30 AM »
Among all those DA an Avatar would fit great,aiding you with your glaring weakness which is cc.

However I do see the merits of 2 guides on your DA-s,but then I ask you why not take squads of 10 with bladestorm,or failing that at least 2 units should have bladestorm which coupled with doom and guide would be totally brutal.
You will find use for bladestorm even though you probably believe that defend is much better suited for a footsloging DA unit.The reason for this is that while you will tarpit the unit that us assaulting you,you have no means of winning a single combat once cc experts hit your line.This means that what you dont  kill with shooting will kill you,just like Tau.So... you take one squad and put defend and PW and Sshield on the exarch.Then you put that unit in the center of your force and cover your flanks with bladestorminf DA-s which are guided.Once a cc unit comes close to your lines,release shurican hell and charge in.No unit will survive that.
Also note that if in a single combat you have both your units with defend,the stacking defend usually will not take more than one atack since most cc units have 2 atacks if they dont charge,hence a waste of points.

Now abour spiders,which are great... But:
Your DA-s have a range of 18 inches,and now spiders make the other better part of your lists shooting and they have a 12inch gun.This means that you have little long range support.They also add nothing to your cc inability which in theory they could help in a bigger unit and withdraw,assaulting stupid units that just want to jump in cc as soon as posible to negate your shooting.Things like necron toasters,little nids,storm guardians... They could even last some against cc units if they get a charge.They stay in the unit in your turn and then in oponents turn then jump out.Effectivly that unit couldnt move at all in its turn and you still get to shoot at it inyour turn with everything you got.
I prefer units of 6 spiders,but in your list the aforementioned tactic could work.

Serious lack of AT.
I prefer walkers with scatter lasers,but if you change this you will have almost no AT weapons.Every single mech army is going to be a nightmare for you and an automatic loss.
Since you have very few mobile elements most Necron lists will be an automatic loss for you to.

All in all :horde overkil,lack of AT
The HQ choices work great with your troops,and that is the forte of your list and your theme.

Spiders are good, though I think one unit is enough.
No elites and no cc
I advice you to fill your heavy slot with what your list lacks,AT,and not what you already haave in abaundance-high rate of fire

Cheers

Edit: OH,and I would put dual EML on the walkers for the added range and the fact that the lance is seriously overpriced for anything short of a BL/EML bs4 wraithlord.
Those walkers and 2 prisms should be enough for a solid AT firepower.

« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 08:48:25 AM by Talion »

Offline Dux Aurelius Elysius

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Re: 1.5k Mostly Footslogger: Craftworld Saim-Shelwe
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2008, 10:13:52 AM »
Also... do Warp Spiders really fit your fluff?  You said your Eldar distrust a lot of the close in Aspects as it leads to an uneccesarily high risk of death... but just BEING a  Warp Spider risks not only death... but the very soul of the Eldar with every jump they make.  Now... being fluff... only you can decide on this one really... but I just thought I'd point it out.

The background isn't yet immutable.  I can alter it so that Warp Spiders are a squad who use their ability to drive out groups of rebels who think themselves in a secure location, striking like lightning and disappearing before they have a chance to react.  In this instance the risk outweighs the benefits.

Ummm... shouldn't you have at least one unit that can perform well in the assault phase?  I know you've got an absolutely sick amount of Fire Power... but the enemy will close with you eventually and as it stands... I'm pretty sure you'll get owned... Defend and Direswords or not.
Among all those DA an Avatar would fit great,aiding you with your glaring weakness which is cc.

I'll be buying the Forgeworld Avatar.  I'll try a few games seeing how it plays if I drop a Farseer and a couple of Warp Spiders, merging their squad and taking an Avvie.  The other close-combat orientated units don't really work well within the army theme.

List remixed:

   
HQ                  
   Farseer   1   Na   Doom, Guide   Spirit Stones, singing spear   123
   Farseer   1   Na   Guide   RoWard   90
Troops                  
   Dire Avengers   10   Exarch   Bladestorm   Two shuriken catapults   152
   Dire Avengers   10   Exarch   Bladestorm   Two shuriken catapults   152
   Dire Avengers   8   Exarch      Diresword   118
   Rangers   5      Pathfinder      120
Fast Attack                  
   Warp Spiders   5   Exarch   Withdraw   Additional death spinner   142
   Warp Spiders   5   Exarch   Withdraw   Additional death spinner   142
Heavy Support                  
   War Walker Squadron   2         Eldar missile launchers   140
   Fire Prism   2         Holo-fields, Spirit Stones   320
                  
Total                  1499

First Farseer up front with Dire Avengers dooming and guiding for some Bladestorms.  The smaller unit of Avengers with the Diresword can add a bit of fear factor to anybody charging in a multi-wound high save Character of theirs.  Primary targets being anything toughness 4 or less and using weight of shots (along with a pretty number of re-rolls) to deal with the risk of a high armour save.
Warp Spider units there to take down higher toughness critters or generally hastle anything particularly nasty looking, avoiding combat.  Also able to deal with AV12 or less (good number of shots, jumping to target rear armour).  Split to maximise the ability to spread shots; no need to have ten shooting at one carnifex if there are two on the doorstep ...
Second Farseer there to guide War Walkers and Fire Prisms who can provide rangers support and put the shakers on vehicles.  Fire Prisms able to combine for some AP3 pie plates or penetrating hits on Land Raiders, or dispersed for less tough targets or to take out troops hiding in cover.
I carry with me an Inquisitorial Seal. It is a small, unassuming object contained in a neat box of Pluvian obsidian. It is a modest thing. Relatively plain, adorned with a single motif and a simple motto. Yet with this little object I can sign the death warrant of an entire world and consign a billion souls to Oblivion.

Offline Talion

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Re: 1.5k Mostly Footslogger: Craftworld Saim-Shelwe
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2008, 10:49:51 AM »
HQ                 
   Farseer   1   Na   Doom, Guide   Spirit Stones, singing spear   123
   Farseer   1   Na   Guide   RoWard   90
Troops                 
   Dire Avengers   10   Exarch   Bladestorm   Two shuriken catapults   152
   Dire Avengers   10   Exarch   Bladestorm   Two shuriken catapults   152
   Dire Avengers   8   Exarch      Diresword   118
   Rangers   5      Pathfinder      120
Fast Attack                 
   Warp Spiders   5   Exarch   Withdraw   Additional death spinner   142
   Warp Spiders   5   Exarch   Withdraw   Additional death spinner   142
Heavy Support                 
   War Walker Squadron   2         Eldar missile launchers   140
   Fire Prism   2         Holo-fields, Spirit Stones   320
                 
Total                  1499

I like this list best so far.

Note that it might be worthwile droping withdraw on spiders since they are small units and wont survive many combats,therefore you might not have a unit at the end of your oponents phase to jump out with.
A nice place to spend those points would be on the DA-s without a power to whom I would give pw+ss and defend =the enemy cc unit stoper.

Rest looks solid.Still try out the Avatar a few games,I believe you may grow to like him in this list.

Offline Dux Aurelius Elysius

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Re: 1.5k Mostly Footslogger: Craftworld Saim-Shelwe
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2008, 05:26:53 AM »
In the absence of anybody coming forward with further criticisms, I've updated the background to better reflect the most recent list and put it forward for addition to the Big List.  If you want, this can replace the Tournament list which is now out-of-action.

Saim-Shelwe (or the Song of Knowledge) was a Craftworld that was caught in a great space battle, unable to avoid the oscillating path of a long since forgotten Tyranid hivefleet.  Although the Craftworld's defensive naval fleet fought off the aggressors, it's engines were damaged and it was left adrift in in the reaches of the galaxy's outer rim.  Floating undirected through space it came into the gravitational field of a Maiden World, known to Imperials as Hathis V, and was forced into a crash land.  The planet was now populated by an un-industrialised human colony.  The Eldar of Saim-Shelwe, viewing the land as rightly belonging to Eldar and the humans as trespassers, enslaved them and use them to work the land.

Similar to Spartan culture, living in a dual class system of a militarised Eldar "upper" class and subjugated human "lower" class with little intermingling.  Through a gradual straying from the traditional Eldar Path, citizens of Saim-Shelwe are highly trained soldiers who have started to become lavish and lazy compared to Eldar of other Craftworlds.  Their armed forces now work to three objectives, firstly to maintain the Eldar position as ruling class and suppress any human uprising; secondly the defense of the planet (and thus Craftworld) against any external threat, though this is mostly performed by the naval fleets; and finally through close connection to Eldar Pirating fleets, along with extensive use of the webway, to search for information and technology that will help reconstruct the Craftworld so that it may someday take to the skies once more.

As a result the military organisation of Saim-Shelwe is very different to that of other Craftworlds.  Less emphasis is placed upon specific Aspect Shrines (other than that of Asuryan with Dire Avengers forming the bulk of the Saim-Shelwe warhost) and more focus is placed upon a force well designed for city-fighting, where the majority of rioting occurs.

Autarchs are rare, with Farseers ability to psychically aid the the offensive might of the soldiers being more valued.  Wraithguard are common, compared to other Craftworlds, the souls lost during the crash of the Craftworld being put to an invaluable use on patrol duties;however during a field combat they, along with Wraithlords, are sometimes found to be overly-large and ungainly to the purposes of the Saim-Shelwe warhost.

Striking Scorpions, with their ability to effortlessly move through cover, are also sometimes seen.  However hand-to-hand orientated troops are unfavourable to Saim-Shelwe, for the risk that it puts the Eldar life in is generally not considered worth it.  It is also for this reason, ever since the crash, that the Warhost of Saim-Shelwe are rarely seen with transport vehicles such as Wave Serpents and Falcons.

Eldar Guardians are almost never seen in a force purely because there are so few "civilian" level Eldar, as soon as a youth comes of age he is trained at the shrine of the Dire Avengers.  Those more unruly are sent out of the Craftworld-city into the forests of Hathis V and learn to fend for themselves, living as rangers.  Often when they return they become sharp-shooting Pathfinders or are sent with the pirate fleets in search of new technology that the Bonesingers may use to resurrect the Craftworld.

Support Weapon Batteries, Dark Reapers and Swooping Hawks are rarely seen, their weapons and combat style not being well suited to the city-scape combat environment that Saim-Shelwe forces are most often put to use in, however in open fields of combat they may still be known to make an appearance, at which point their devastating attacks well compliment the combat organism.  Curiously the Warp Spider aspect is seen with unusual prevalence, their Warp Jump generators and high shot, high strength guns excelling at shifting bunkered down rebels or flanking manoeuvres on opponents who think their position secure.

A strange element found in the atmosphere of Hathis V causes interference in the engines of skimmers jetbikes, only prevented by the effect of the Holo-Field on Fire-Prisms and Jetbikes.  Attempts to transfer this technology to Vypers and Wave Serpents have thus far failed, the Energy Field draining too much energy to also operate the vehicles weaponry.  For this reason the bulk of the Saim-Shelwe's heavy weaponry is made up by squadrons of versatile War Walkers and Fire Prisms.


HQ               213
   Farseer      Doom, Guide   Spirit Stones, singing spear   123
   Farseer      Guide      RoWard               90

Troops               566
   Dire Avengers   10   Exarch   Bladestorm   Two shuriken catapults   152
   Dire Avengers   10   Exarch   Bladestorm   Two shuriken catapults   152
   Dire Avengers   10   Exarch            Diresword      142
   Rangers   5            Pathfinder               120

Fast Attack               252
   Warp Spiders   10   Exarch   Withdraw   Additional death spinner   252
                  
Heavy Support                  460
   War Walker Squadron   2   Eldar missile launchers      140
   Fire Prism   2         Holo-fields, Spirit Stones   320
                  
Total                  1491

First Farseer up front with Dire Avengers dooming and guiding for some Bladestorms.  The smaller unit of Avengers with the Diresword can add a bit of fear factor to anybody charging in a multi-wound high save Character of theirs.  Primary targets being anything toughness 4 or less and using weight of shots (along with a pretty number of re-rolls) to deal with the risk of a high armour save.
Warp Spider units there to take down higher toughness critters or generally hastle anything particularly nasty looking, avoiding combat.  Also able to deal with AV12 or less (good number of shots, jumping to target rear armour).  Split to maximise the ability to spread shots; no need to have ten shooting at one carnifex if there are two on the doorstep ...
Second Farseer there to guide War Walkers and Fire Prisms who can provide rangeds support and put the shakers on vehicles.  Fire Prisms able to combine for some AP3 pie plates or penetrating hits on Land Raiders, or dispersed for less tough targets or to take out troops hiding in cover.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 05:38:59 AM by Zaccone »
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Offline Lonewolf

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Re: 1.5k Mostly Footslogger: Craftworld Saim-Shelwe
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2008, 05:33:27 AM »
Just one point, add those two warspidersquads together into one squad. That way you save some points and withdraw starts to become actually worth it. They also wont run as fast although you will lose on flexibility. With the points you save, you could beef up the pathfinders or that understrength avenger squad a bit. Also if you should join those squads, give the exarch powerblades. If the target in question is doomed, he will kill around 2 marines on his own, which might save you from having to test for a lost combat before withdrawing.

« Last Edit: April 21, 2008, 05:46:31 AM by Lonewolf »


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Re: 1.5k Mostly Footslogger: Craftworld Saim-Shelwe
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2008, 05:44:37 AM »
I give in, I seem the only person who likes the idea of the split squad.  Ah well, like the Avatar it's not like it's something it'd be hard to try out to play around with.
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Offline Lonewolf

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Re: 1.5k Mostly Footslogger: Craftworld Saim-Shelwe
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2008, 06:02:25 AM »
I certainly see the point in splitting them, more targets for your opponent, the ability to hunt down 2 targets and an additional scoring unit. Its just that i am used to field them in full squads and found it to be working very well. Of course i use a fortune jetbike seer who babysits them, which doesent make sense with smaller squads  :)


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Offline Gutstikk

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Re: 1.5k Mostly Footslogger: Craftworld Saim-Shelwe
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2008, 11:44:43 AM »
Your list has been selected for inclusion in the Big List of Eldar Lists project! You will be receiving a score from me using the 5/5 system as outlined in the Big List of Eldar Lists in the stickies on this board. Following is the critique I have given:

Background: 1
You;ve done a rather excellent job of developing the theme of this list and selecting units that make sense given the theatres they will be fighting in [it seems like much of this fighting is done to quell uprising in their own populace!]. While making for a good read, it also helps to rule out certain suggestions, so others offering advice can avoid making irrelevent suggestions. And of course, we have a place for you at POC EO if you're looking for one  ;).

Composition: .5
Given your lack of combat units [which makes sense under your fluff] you will need to take pains to ensure your army won't get steamrolled once enemy units reach your lines. This will be especially painful as there are no transports for your infantry to board and thereby escape enemy assaults. Having two guides seems a little unnecessary with only one unit desperately in need of it; Doom would have been a more sensible choice, enabling you to dedicate your avengers to more than one enemy squad, or enabling doom to be cast into combats once enemy hit your lines. Direswords would have been a good stopgap measure on all your Avenger teams, as you lack other effective ways of dealing with armor in combat. You have taken measures with your shooting phase to handle a wide variety of targets. The variety of units in your army is not very great, meaning you have lots of repeated vulnerabilities that a single enemy unit could exploit over and over again, causing loads of trouble.

Utility: 1
Your unit builds compliment their intended roles very well, without many points sunk into unnecessary upgrades. The primary offender is the holofields on the prisms, which should really be reserved for god-prisms [which are anathema to me anyways, I feel all those points when you could just by a third prism instead... what a waste!] In your case those extra points could have given you a third walker, which would make that squad even more awe-inspiring, even if it took dual scatters and you upped your avengers to some direswords. Consider your opportunity costs; survivability keeps you alive but also reduces your ability to hurt the enemy in some ways - so if you don't absolutely need it, don't buy it! Granted, by your background material you actually do need it, but since I've seen that this has been altered to suit the list previously, I assume it is there simply to justify the list, rather than sticking to your background, which means it isn't necessary [perhaps they just don't use falcons and vypers...?]

Flexibility: .5
By the nature of your design you have a lot of inflexible units, still, some steps could be taken to reduce this impact, such as occasional direswords/powerblades on units, grabbing some resilient stuff such as those wraith units you've mentioned... Avengers are tactically one of the weakest units available because they have no choice but to go for infantry of lower toughness, with no optiones enabling them to effectively deal with other threats. This means you need to be sure other units can pick up the slack. While having the firepower available to deal with such enemies is nice, you may find yourself stuck in combat much faster than you would like, at which point those tanks can't kill the enemy assaulters any more.

Ingenuity: 0
Before I forget, why would you want to guide twin-linked [or even single!] prism shots? The walkers will always need this more than the prisms, especially since the cumulative effect is far greater with the walkers. Apart from that it is good to see a simple battle plan formulated, but with the glaring vulnerability to combat you've left yourself with, you must address the assault phase in your plans. If you do not you will have a very hard time of dealing with opponents. Orks, Eldar, DE are all capable of turn 1 combats while many other armies can get there on turn 2. You do not want to spend 4+ game turns incapable of dealing with your opponent. Think further on this as you develop your army.

Total Score: 3, for a solid list
Keep in mind that this rating is given in light of your army's design. Your army will suffer in games vs tournament-style lists, simply because of the lack of options you have available [unit wise] and given the weakness of the army as a whole in the assault phase. I would strongly consider including some of those assault elements you've left out [such as scorps, or when you're not using prisms, the wraithlords]. You may also want to consider harlequin aid, as you've mentioned nothing against them.

I like the idea of the army, but feel it would need some more work to really make it come together on the tabletop. So I'm going to offer some alternatives now that I've given a review.

HQ
  115 Farseer                 Doom, Guide, Runes of Warding
  130 Farseer                 Doom, Fortune, Stones

Elites:
  176: Scorpions        9   Exarch   Scorpion Claw, Stalker

Troops
   145 Dire Avengers   9   Exarch   Diresword, Bladestorm
   145 Dire Avengers   9   Exarch   Diresword, Defend
   140 Dire Avengers   9   Exarch   Power Weapon, Shimmershield
     95 Rangers   5         

Fast Attack
   164 Warp Spiders   6   Exarch   Withdraw   Additional death spinner
                 
Heavy Support
   140 War Walkers 2      Eldar missile launchers
   250 Fire Prisms 2        Spirit Stones

In this variation, the prisms rely on range and linking beams to keep one prism out of LOS while the other outranges enemy retaliation. The walkers are guided by one doomseer, who switches to doom once combats require it [and probably won't need the stones since the walkers will likely be dead by then]. The other seer follows the unit of scorpions, casting fortune on them as they advance with the Avengers. Against hordes the defend avengers lead your firebase [reducing incoming attacks]; against powerweapons and fists the Avengers with the shimmershield stand in front of the Scorps and get fortuned instead [to protect the scorpions from powerfist death]. The bladestorming Avengers are a flank operator, with the walkers shielding them somewhat from enemy retaliation, or can operate behind the main shooting block, using bladestorm on the turn before the enemy hit your lines, and then fleeting away as they reload.

Just some ideas, hope they help.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2008, 12:38:21 PM by Gutstikk »

Offline moc065

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Re: 1.5k Mostly Footslogger: Craftworld Saim-Shelwe
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2008, 06:49:39 AM »
I guess that I will actually rate this newer version.
Quote
HQ
  115 Farseer                 Doom, Guide, Runes of Warding
  130 Farseer                 Doom, Fortune, Stones

Elites:
  176: Scorpions        9   Exarch   Scorpion Claw, Stalker

Troops
   145 Dire Avengers   9   Exarch   Diresword, Bladestorm
   145 Dire Avengers   9   Exarch   Diresword, Defend
   140 Dire Avengers   9   Exarch   Power Weapon, Shimmershield
     95 Rangers   5         

Fast Attack
   164 Warp Spiders   6   Exarch   Withdraw   Additional death spinner
                 
Heavy Support
   140 War Walkers 2      Eldar missile launchers
   250 Fire Prisms 2        Spirit Stones
moc-score

1.. Anti-tank potential: 2 Units with AT, and 1-2 with some Support does not make for good AT; thus I would say that your Below Average (.4)
2.. Anti-MEQ potential: Not a lot of Dedicated AP=3; but plenty of Fire power and CC potential so overall its Above Average (.7)
3.. Anti-Horde potential: Good (.8 )
4.. Ranged Firepower potential: Fairly decent mix; but not enough to take on faster armies, especially faster Horde armies like Orkz, overall its just Slighty Above Average (.65)
5.. Assault potential: Good number of "Holding" units and decent CC; but you could certainly entertain getting some more, Average (.6)
6.. Scoring Units / point level: 8 at 1.5k is actually about Average (.6)
7.. Durability or Resilience: Plenty of Body Bags to absorb fire, but it could seriously be improved quite esaily Slightly Below Average (.5)
8.. Flexibility: Fast Hordes, Drop pod armies, Nidzilla, and others will give this difficulty, so its Slightly Below Average (.5)
9.. Mission Capability: For the most part, Yes, Good (.8 )
10. Dynamics and/or Theme: I actually like a lot of the theme, right until I saw the Fireprisms.... I think you could have gone for footbased here as well and had points to spare that would fix a lot of other things (4 Vibros/Distorts although having their own flaws could make for many other things, as well as freeing up points for Rangers to be PF's, Shadowstrike, Singing Spears on Farseers, etc...) Overall though its still Very Good (.9)
 
Rating = 6.45/10 Others would probably score it higher, and it may perform better than I have indicated... But the user, the opponent, and the scenerio play a huge part in this.

CaHG
« Last Edit: April 28, 2008, 01:49:52 PM by moc065 »
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