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Author Topic: Do you believe in God  (Read 20462 times)

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Offline Sheepz

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #760 on: September 28, 2003, 10:03:07 AM »
Sigh, if we were all as smart as you Surface...

Offline Camo

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #761 on: September 28, 2003, 02:00:48 PM »
         Nowhere in the bible does it say 'and on the eight day god made energy and started the big bang'.
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Offline Erand

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #762 on: September 28, 2003, 02:10:52 PM »
does it matter? if we are all just nice to each other and work to mutual benifits does it really matter?

Offline Farsear Riddle

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #763 on: September 28, 2003, 02:20:53 PM »
the tendency (double underlined) of natural systems to increase in entropy.  The law is not inviolate, fluorescence being a good example.


 Funny you bring this up, does anyone remember the guy (about 1-2 years ago now I think) who postulated  that the meaning of life was to act as the agent of entropy so that one day all matter and energy in the universe will evolve toward a state of inert uniformity. It does make sense on many levels look what do we do with concentration of energy in the form of fossil fuel deposits for example? Not the most cheerful outlook on lifes purpose, you have got to admit.

Offline Surface

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #764 on: September 28, 2003, 02:48:21 PM »
Sigh, if we were all as smart as you Surface...

[Takes a bow]
Be very, very careful.  If you die in a yellow dream, you die in real life.

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Offline HarlequinSolitaire

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #765 on: September 28, 2003, 05:07:02 PM »

*Burp*
...

...
*Rebbit*
Thanks I needed that in 17 other dimensions  

Is your current concept a world wide brain with ideas open to all on that "channel"?



eh? I don't watch TV... ;)

Seriously, no comprende senor....

Wow... Only one person commented on my theory, and even he didn't make much sense....


Do you mean, maybe, that I only think about things I want to? Hmm... I've thought about most religions and stuff, and I just find the whole God thing a bit far fetched....
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Offline Purple Area

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #766 on: September 28, 2003, 10:53:43 PM »
You do realize that the people that will end up arguing the most are NEVER going to be convinced that their point of view is wrong...

Not pointing fingers, but getting into a heated debate without being able to see the other point of view, without even being able to consider that point of view for a second is rather pointless ;)

You'll both bring up valid points, but neither will ever be convinced because your views are set in stone..  Oh well...  :)
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Offline laun mo R

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #767 on: September 29, 2003, 01:04:24 AM »
I believe in infinite universes, hasn't been proven or not, but it sounds right. I don't really believe, I just thought it up and thought "Hey! That's a good idea!" And kept that in the 'good ideas' folder of my brain. ;)

When I say thought up, I'm sure some guy has thought of it beofre, but I thought of it for me. :)

I don't believe as in, it's an idea, and I accept it as such. If I find something better, it'll go out the proverbial window.

Get my idea?

Anywho, the idea of it is that there's a universe for every single possibility. So, occasionally, in a maths lesson, it's entertaining to think "Somewhere in time, I'm burping a toad."

Try it. It cheers you up.

*Burp*
...




...
*Rebbit*
thank you from the toad  :D

Is your concept some sort of shared mental internet?
all concepts and knowledge shared on an unconscious level?

you tuned into the thought of burping a toad (but
 not being burped as a toad :P rib-urp! ;D)

The planets magnetic feild as a harddrive?  right. . .


Waffles in the moon light make me hungry.
DO you beleive in a diety, if so how do you know them??
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Offline Surface

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #768 on: September 29, 2003, 02:41:43 AM »

*Burp*
...

...
*Rebbit*
Thanks I needed that in 17 other dimensions  

Is your current concept a world wide brain with ideas open to all on that "channel"?



eh? I don't watch TV... ;)

Seriously, no comprende senor....

Wow... Only one person commented on my theory, and even he didn't make much sense....


Do you mean, maybe, that I only think about things I want to? Hmm... I've thought about most religions and stuff, and I just find the whole God thing a bit far fetched....

Here is a comment,

If there is an infinite number of alternate universes where every possibility exists then logically there will be a universe where natural laws prevent the existence of other universes.  In other words according to the other universe theory there must be a universe where the theory isn't true.

Hmmm..., now that's good paradox  :)
Be very, very careful.  If you die in a yellow dream, you die in real life.

Jeff Noon/Vurt

You need Jesus, friend. You need to give your life to Jesus and ask Him to set you free from all of the demonic rock music that you've been listening to.

Some crazy person

Offline Sheepz

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #769 on: September 29, 2003, 01:16:40 PM »
Like I said, I wish I was as smart as you Surface...


Offline Tuisich-Anastari

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #770 on: September 29, 2003, 08:48:21 PM »
If there is an infinite number of alternate universes where every possibility exists then logically there will be a universe where natural laws prevent the existence of other universes.  In other words according to the other universe theory there must be a universe where the theory isn't true.

Hmmm..., now that's good paradox  :)


I like.
"A careful study of the Bible would convince many people that it is a very different
book than they assume it to be." --Loraine Boettner, The Reformed Doctrine Of Predestination

This post is dedicated to all those who never have a post dedicated to them.

Offline Arcas

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #771 on: September 30, 2003, 07:43:36 AM »
The existence of an infinite number of universes does *not* mean that all possible variations of universes actually exist. There could as well be an infinite number of universes which are all the same as ours, or only a handful different ones. A universe with such natural laws does not necessarily have to exist according to that theory, the existence of a natural law which clearly allows the existance of multiple universes might be something which all universes have in common.

For example, there is an infinite number of "natural" numbers (or whatever that group "N" of numbers is called in English). Even though there is an infinite number of them, they all are positive, not a single negative one.

jwu
« Last Edit: September 30, 2003, 07:45:14 AM by Archon Astaroth »

Offline Travman of Alyeska

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #772 on: September 30, 2003, 11:00:20 AM »
Quote
Well it has been quite some time since my courses in thermo,

No kidding…

Quote
My beleif is that God's actions connect these points.  I know He is there because of the impacts of His actions on me and around me.

You appear to have abandoned your mangled invocation of thermodynamics and have instead resorted to restating your belief (which I never begrudged you).

You have consequently failed to demonstrate that the Christian explanation of the universes origin is more satisfactory than one based on natural models.

Therefore my original observations stand.


I have not abandoned law 2.  Making order from chaos requires energy transfer of a directed nature.  If you want a hot cup of coffee, you have to warm it up...and if you want a universe, someone has to create it.  If you want a planet, someone has to push the bits of dust together (or simply speak it into existance).  None of these actions happens on its own.  Energy of a directed nature has to come from outside the system.

You state the natural model is just as good.  I ask you what is the natural model (the one folks believe today anyway)?

Travman

Offline Arcas

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #773 on: September 30, 2003, 11:27:09 AM »
Quote
Making order from chaos requires energy transfer of a directed nature.
No.
Have a look at freezing water. It loses energy, but in that process it transforms into a higher grade of order than it has in its fluid, chaotic state: Crystals.

Quote
If you want a hot cup of coffee, you have to warm it up...and if you want a universe, someone has to create it.
What about "the energy has always been there"?
Or alternatively "it has come from the hall field" (or whatever it is called in English).
You say quite the same about God, don't you?
"He has always been there."
"He created himself"

Quote
If you want a planet, someone has to push the bits of dust together (or simply speak it into existance).
What about gravity?
It's a process in which things actually lose energy, not gain it. The potential energy is transformed to momentum energy, and finally to heat (when things collide). I'm not sure if i used to right words, but you get the idea.

Quote
None of these actions happens on its own.  Energy of a directed nature has to come from outside the system.
Just wrong, as shown above.

jwu

Offline Surface

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #774 on: September 30, 2003, 12:27:40 PM »
Travman,

Trying to say that natural models of the universe's creation contradict the laws of thermodynamics is a very well trodden argument.  For every creationist website that continues to use it there is a physics or biology website that offers the correct interpretations.  This "objection" has been debunked again and again.  Astaroth has mentioned a few examples, if you are really interested ask a  physicist or go to a  (non creationist) website.

Seriously there is page after page of scientific 'flaws' to be found on creationist websites ranging from contradictions of universal constants to the radio carbon dating of snails.  They have all been debunked.

Astaroth,

You are quite correct of course the logic of my sentence was flawed since you can indeed have an infinitely large subset of an infinitely large population.

Nether the less Solitaire was definitely talking about a multiverse in which all possibilities existed.  Such a multiverse would fall foul of my paradox.

I believe the words he used were

"Anywho, the idea of it is that there's a universe for every single possibility."
Be very, very careful.  If you die in a yellow dream, you die in real life.

Jeff Noon/Vurt

You need Jesus, friend. You need to give your life to Jesus and ask Him to set you free from all of the demonic rock music that you've been listening to.

Some crazy person

Offline Eldanesh

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Re:Do you believe in God
« Reply #775 on: September 30, 2003, 02:12:42 PM »
Please confine and refer all reponses on this topic to the Theology, Philosophy and Religion thread from here on.

Thanks for understanding.
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