Topic: Flaming Americans.

[Zeus]

"stop making my points for me" - sound familiar? I just said i dont want anything to do with policing other countries and perhaps it would somewhat delight me to see the defense we provided be gone and the armies of europe being destroyed by another power ( showing them the need to actually build one again).

[Communist]

Yeah, I suppose that the US compared to a cop is a good one.  Sometimes I hate cops but still I respect them

Exsactly

[Communist]

destroyed by who?

[feintstar]

Actually, Zhukov was a Liddel Hart. Rommel was good, Guderian was excellent, and Zhukov was Guderian's opposite number.

Zhukov was responsible for Russian Wins at Stalingrad, Kursk, and the 1944 Offensive called Operation Bagration that ended with the fall of Berlin.

Although Historians are by no means unanimous in anything, I think it was Hart himself who wrote the Book in which I read that Russia would have won, bt in a much bloodier and more time consuming fashin had the Americans not been there.

At the time of the beginning of Barbarossa, One of the States in Eastern Europe was being Liased by the Russian foreign minister. That small country ( I don't remember which) said

"you may have to retreat all the way to Siberia, but you'll still win in the end."

Hitler was a fool for picking a fight too big for him.


"No dictator, no invader, no-one can hold an enslaved population by force of arms alone forever. All beings have a need to be free. Against that power tyrants and armies cannot stand. THough it take a thousand years, we will be Free."

G'Kar, Babylon 5

[Zeus]

Wasnt too big a fight, but he picked the wrong time to do it.

[Archon Kojourin]

And he got greedy.  Wanted the oil fields down south at the same time and stretched his forces.  It didn't help his army any that's for sure.

[Zithuriel]

I remembered that G'Kar quote.  That was a good episode.  And the Reds could very well have beaten the Nazis.  But the Nazis and the Japanese Empire?  I think not.

[Blood Archon]

Hmm yeah. The only reason Russia lived is because Japan didn't attack it. And the Russians would have gotten their asses handed to them if there were no Americans. But this wartime amphetamine parrot is irrelevant. SOMEONE EXPLAIN WHY THE STEREOTYPICAL AMERICAN IS ARROGANT.

-BA

[Scars]

Japan did toy with the idea of invading Russia but got their asses kick in boarder skirmishes thus abbandoned the plan.

The sterotypical American is ignorant as they live within their own little world that spans from canada to mexico. Anything else is irrelivant.

Archon Kojourin, yes the Allies did win the war and I have never said that the US didn't do its part, but they didn't do as much in Europe as they crack on they did.

Also, Zukov was not as good as Patton or Rommel; but he was still an exellent commander and was the best that the Red Army had as the dipstick called Stalin shot the rest.

If it came to a war between The Red Army and US in Berlin the US would have had its head smashed in. between the hundreds of tanks, massed artillery and thousands of troops and their experiance at city fighting the US army wouldn't of had a chance.

[Communist]

Sing it Brother


Why can't we be friends
oh
why can't we be friends

Say that dirty word

"Social....izm"
"Social...izm"
"Social..izm"
"Social.izm"

RARARA

[Spacewolf]

 Back to the orginal argument I think most thingk we Americans are arrogant because we love our way of life and really belive it is the best. The misunderstanding comes from the view of we think ours is the best and we want others to have it to. The world does not necissarly agree with that statment so then it becomes I am better than you type battle.

  Personal note #1: Scars I would respect more of your view of history if it was not so biased. Yes Russia fought one hell of a campaign against Germany, but belive me two things turned their defeats for them. 1. The classic Russian winters. 2. Because Stalin came out of his funk and drove the people back to the fierce fighting.
   Now Ike did hold Patton back on several occasions one of them being going into Berlin. He did that because he knew they had suffered the most of the Allies and it kept peace with Stalin.
  The Russians were a formidable force of that there is no doubt. They were and still are some of the fiercest fighters on the planet. I have alot of respect for them on that. But they were just one part of the other Allies. So to say that they single handedly (which you have on other post) beat Germany is just discounting the other allies not just the US.
 
   Personal note number 2: Being in the combat arms I have to back Zeus up.. GO GROUND POUNDERS!!!!!!!

[miclantecuthli]

Strange topic, are their alot of flaming posts against americans? No, most are against the American governement, against some of the the American foreign policies, against some American laws, against the American army, ... Yes, flaming against tha USA, but not against the Americans.

It's indeed true that SOME members flame all Americans, but I don't have the impression that most posts are against Americans.

[Naugrim]

The problem is that you identify the people in the country with the policies their governments do. And I can´t influence Bush in any way so I try to tell the Americans that the foreignpolicy is not that good.

They of course feel a lot for their country(patriotism, my country right or wrong) and then feel like they are being the target of all the negative stuff(which they are in a way), and so on..... So you take out your anger at something you can reach(the american average citizen)

To the question on why some countries populations can be viewed as arrogant then. I personally feel that the american government are arrogant and the american average citizen ignorant.  

The government is arrogant because they don´t have to get along at all with the world at all. They just increase their defensebudget and build some more Carriers(might is right). Diplomacy can be so tedious and ineffective so we just threatens to bomb some country and to hell with what the other countries feel about.  

Saddam is THE bad guy, no question about it but so are a lot of other countries and Saddam is the easist to pick on. Other wise U.S should bomb the Palestiniens as well and maybe Chechnya.(Not that there is nothing worthwhile to bomb there).

The ignorent(didnt N.geographic make survey that showed that a lot of americans where really lousy at where different countries were located?) american dont really know whats happening but trust his government. At least Bush is doing something !!
But is it the right thing?
How much is politics?
How showing the american people that he is doing something ?

The usual response from americans when I tell them the name of my country is that they liked the chocolate and the cuccoclocks(Not my country). I usually reply in kind with saying that I thought Boston was located in Canada and San Diego in Mexico

But the american arrogant archetype have good competition in the arrogance department when comparing with the French. But I just don´t take them seriously at all

My humble opinion....Also I like it when we can talk......

[XfinianX]

for the Record - i have absolutely NOTHING against americans purely on the basis of their nationality. i believe in judging EVERY person on an individual basis.

i do however have a lot of problems with the american government/leadership and some of the values they promote/stand for - please don't feel im singling out america, i have lots of problems with LOTs of different countries.

I see nothing wrong with people being proud of their country if they chose to be. I do how ever disagree with people being unable to accept criticism about their choices/country - far dos, DESPUTE them by all means, but don't expect people to suddenly change when you tell them you believe they are wrong. I personally don't expect any of you to change from what i say - although i would like it to happen, i know change is up to the individuals choice - But regardless im still going to voice my critcisms

but thats my two cents on the issue

[Scars]

also, geographically they are ignorant. only 13% of americans could point out where Iraq is. I have also been informed that NZ is off the coast of Cuba twice; which technicly it is; there is just 4 continents in the way (Europe, Asia, Africa and Oz).

[XfinianX]

also, geographically they are ignorant. only 13% of americans could point out where Iraq is. I have also been informed that NZ is off the coast of Cuba twice; which technicly it is; there is just 4 continents in the way (Europe, Asia, Africa and Oz).

or 2 if you go the other way (north american/south america) but that depends on the route you draw and as i don't have a globe handy i can't check.

but as for your other comments about their 'geographical ignorance' could you please inform us as to where you gain these figures? im always sceptical about tests on the american public, especially when they are put into percentages - even when the tests are done by non-american agencies.

[Imperial Might]

First of all those who have said that americans cant take critisism of their own government are sooooooo very wrong. I live in California (a state that strongly supports democratic views (gore) We dislike bush and many republican ideals. Go to a website wwww.dubyaspeak.com It was created by americans who dislike bush.

Also one musy understand that a British, American, And Russian history teacher all teach massivly different curricluem. Recently i befriended a brit. We talked about ww2 and he said that the brits had single handedly one the war and that the americans had done very little.

We soon realised that the difference in education dictated our views. Im sure a russian made history book shows a great russian victory and such.

Furthermore for those who have said that the average american is ignorant? By whose standards? Which nation has a greater literacy rate and higher traveling rate and a more balanced media system?

For the russians who say america polices the world. Yes we do. And you all should thank us. Without the US "policing the world" people like suddam would have a lot more breathing space.

And by the way the americans arnt going to fight suddam to "Defend our homeland" like some people think. HELL people fail to realise that suddam cant even reach us. HE CAN reach lower parts of russia. ALso we do make choices in the middle east based on oil.
OIL that runs the world not just america. If the middle east were to stop exporting oil America wouldnt feel the brunt of it. In 2000 Middle eastern oil only acounted for 28% of oil in the us. The Russians and Europeans would feel teh brunt of it.

So think before u rag on a country that helps to keep your way of life better.

[cullyJR.]

Remember that UN prposal Bush came up with called "Resolution U.S. Does whatever it wants'"?  That is the plan which "would permit the US to take any action it wishes, anywhere in the world at anytime" which would be enacted with or without UN support.  Well, they're forming a subcommitee, but it doesn't matter, 'cause we're gonna do it anyway.  That guy is downright evil, but at least he realizes that his country is right in all things all the time.  


Why should Americans care what's outside the country when what's outside the country is Fighting_Scars?

By the way, I don't live in the US, New Jersey seceded just a couple years ago.  

[Volren]

I don't see why the US would really care whether the UN supports them or not. They don't even need the resolution, Bush is already doing whatever the heck he wants.

[Gork n Mork #2]

Good point Anargo.

What worries me about America is obviously Bush, as has been said many times, and most parts of their foreign policy.

I agree with the idea of removing Saddam with force because anyone who wins a national vote with 11 million votes to 0 has to be crazy. Saddam has commited atrocities against the Kurds, and his own people and deserves to rot in jail for the rest of his life. He keeps stalling these weapons searches, and wether or not there is weapons "of mass destruction" in his country, matters little.

On to what I said before though, I worry about American foreign policy because they fail to recognize the ills they are commiting upon other countries. Politically, Socially, and Economically, the U.S. affects every country in the world and the results of trade barriers, tariffs, wars, ect. are usually self-serving. Wether it be the manifest or latent results of their actions, people are hurt. Take for example the Soft-wood lumber tariff on the province I live in: British Columbia. Lumber is our largest export and because of U.S. tariff, we are losing thousands of jobs. Another example is the continued interaction of the U.S. in the middle east and their large interests in oil. They may have stopped the attack of Iraq upon Kuwait, but what for? Political motivation like their war in Vietnam? I doubt it. We all know it's for the precious precious oil.

I know that no country is perfect, but the U.S. is just is easy to pick on because it's the biggest. Not the "Best", but hardly the worst.

I know the average American Joe is probably like the average Canadian Joe. I have no qualms against the American people, just the government. So you "yanks" better do something about Bush!

Thanks, and may Gork n' Mork be with you!