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Author Topic: 1750p Harlequins, comments please  (Read 4197 times)

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Offline benmannen

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1750p Harlequins, comments please
« on: July 25, 2011, 10:38:14 AM »
Hello, I just glued together the last mini to my new secret exciting project... The Harlequins army based on the list posted on this site.

I'd love to get some feedback on my choices. I kept the Harlequins units quite small so I can join up with HQs in Venoms, or Deep Strike the foot slogging unit...

Mimes seem a bit strange, but I love the fluff and will paint up a unit of the new plastic Wyches with striped shirts and white facemasks  :)

Venoms are of course the new DE Venoms, I ebayed a Harlequin Wraithlord, got a Hornet from Forgeworld as a Mocking Bird:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Eldar/ELDAR-HORNET.html

So please check it out and let me know what you think:

HQ

Great Harlequin 43
Stormglove 15
Fusion Pistol 10
Distortion Field 20
Masque of Dark Veil 45
Total 133

Shadowseer 48
Stormglove 15
Distortion Field 20
2 Benethai 24
Fusion Pistol 10
Total 122

ELITES

Solitaire 70
Stormglove 20
Distortion Field 25
Total 115

TROOPS

6 Harlequins 108
5 Harlequins Kiss 20
1 Fusion Pistol 10
Troupe Master w Power Weapon 20
Harlequin Warlock 20
Total 178

Venom 45
Shuriken cannon 10
Holofield 20
Total 75

6 Harlequins 108
5 Harlequins Kiss 20
1 Fusion Pistol 10
Troupe Master w Power Weapon 20
Harlequin Warlock 20
Total 178

Venom 45
Shuriken cannon 10
Holofield 20
Total 75

6 Harlequins 108
4 Harlequins Kiss 16
Fusion Pistol 10
Total 106

8 Mimes 96
Mimic 10
Total 106

7 Mimes 84
Mimic 10
Total 94

FAST ATTACK

4 Harlequin Jetbikes 188
3 Harlequin Kiss 12
2 Fusion Guns 10
Troupe Master with Power Weapon 20
Harlequin Warlock 20
Total 250

Mocking Bird 100
Shuriken Cannon 5
Holofield 20
Total 125

HEAVY SUPPORT

Harlequin Spiritwalker 110
Bright Lance 40
2 Flamers 0
Harlequin Blade 15
Total 165

Army total: 1750


Offline Rasmus

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Re: 1750p Harlequins, comments please
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2011, 02:15:58 AM »
I like the list.
Why the heavy emphasis on Stormgloves? Why no kisses or ccw+powerblades? What is it that makes you favour them to the exclusion of pretty much every other weapon?

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Offline benmannen

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Re: 1750p Harlequins, comments please
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2011, 03:54:48 AM »
Stormgloves seem to be the most stastistically lethal weapon even though you lose an attack. All HQs in the Harlie codex have low WS though compared to other Eldar. So the powerblades are a good alternative for more attacks (which I normally prefer). 

But the solitaire will max out to 10 attacks if you plan it well, and will not benefit from any extra weapon attacks so reroll to wound is a lot more useful. I might give the Shadowseer Powerblades.

Rending from Kisses is too random. The HQs have too few attacks to benefit
from them, regular Harlequins though are great with them, letting them even take out tanks and walkers. Which is nice since the rules for grenades in vehicle/walker assaults are badly written.

Ill try to take some pictures for you, the army came together really nicely :)

Offline Wyldhunt

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Re: 1750p Harlequins, comments please
« Reply #3 on: August 3, 2011, 11:23:17 PM »
Stormgloves seem to be the most stastistically lethal weapon even though you lose an attack. All HQs in the Harlie codex have low WS though compared to other Eldar. So the powerblades are a good alternative for more attacks (which I normally prefer). 

But the solitaire will max out to 10 attacks if you plan it well, and will not benefit from any extra weapon attacks so reroll to wound is a lot more useful. I might give the Shadowseer Powerblades.

Rending from Kisses is too random. The HQs have too few attacks to benefit
from them, regular Harlequins though are great with them, letting them even take out tanks and walkers. Which is nice since the rules for grenades in vehicle/walker assaults are badly written.

Ill try to take some pictures for you, the army came together really nicely :)

This is pretty much why my harlequin ICs tend to favor storm gloves were possible as well. That and because I love how storm gloves look (I plan to use hydra gauntlets for them.)  Powerblades aren't a bad alternative, but I tend to have enough harlies to generate a large number of attacks already. Thus the storm gloves give me a better chance at delivering quality attacks.

Regarding your list, I like it overall, though I wonder why you're going with shuricannons over fusion guns.  They have shorter reach, true, but I usually find myself dropping the clowns off right next to a vehicle anyway.  Venoms with fusion guns are perfect for blasting into enemy transports right before throwing the clowns at them.  That, and I typically use my clowns themselves for taking care of infantry, thus the shuricannon is a bit redundant.  Also, if you decide against using your bikes or spirit walker, I'd advise adding in a couple of master mimes to your mime squads.  I give mine powerblades, haywires, and a fusion pistol so that I can blast at the enemy transport, cut up the guys inside if I hit, or haywire them all to death (emergency evac and all that) if I don't.  And Mime Disruption is comforting even if I haven't really had it make much difference on a game yet.

Offline benmannen

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Re: 1750p Harlequins, comments please
« Reply #4 on: August 4, 2011, 03:21:54 AM »
Venoms can have Fusion Guns! I totally missed that!

Thanks! That will help a lot. I have been wondering how the list would deal with too many vehicles. That's the answer, or at least it will help to have 2 more options.

I found 51p for a Master Mime, so I will try him out.

I played my first game yesterday with the list. I faced a small elite Grey Knights army, probably one of the worst matchups, they had all the tools do deal with my units, especially that ability where the entire unit takes a wound on 4+!!! And he could cast it twice each round... That melted my poor Harlies. I rolled quite bad, my deepstriking Solitaire scattered into terminators, mishapped and died! I rolled a 1 on fleet when I needed just a 2 to be able to reach with assaults, leaving med stranded and shot to death.

The jetbikes are way too expensive. 4 with some upgrades cost as much as 6 in a Venom...

But I liked how it performed. I kept looking at the battlefield and checking my armylist for missing units, it is just so small and fragile, where did all the points go... But even while getting slaughtered it was fun to play. I have some ideas for changes, but will try a slightly updated list with a Master Mime for turn one Solo-Assaults  :)

I actually went with Powerblades just to try them in the end, and they worked fine. The 2 extra attacks might be worth it.

Offline Wyldhunt

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Re: 1750p Harlequins, comments please
« Reply #5 on: August 5, 2011, 04:11:32 AM »
Sounds like you had a little bad luck with that game. I haven't had a game against Gray Knights with my harlies yet, but I suspect that they would do quite well thanks to all the rending and power weapons attacks + fusion pistols I tend to have in my armies. 

It sounds like you wound up in melee with some paladins or whatever squad it is that has that 4+ wound power.  If you can outmaneuver them, I'd advise picking off the rest of his army first and then going for them.  Between invuls all around the army (weak as they are), sheer volume of rending attacks, and pretty much every unit having anti-vehicle and/or anti-heavy infantry weaponry, I would imagine that gray knights would be an ideal target for harlequins.

As an aside, I did a little math hammer recently.  If I did it right, harlies are slightly killier than gray knights both on the charge and the receiving end of a charge, but gray knights obviously have an advantage in durability while we have an advantage in speed.

Offline Zilverscale

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Re: 1750p Harlequins, comments please
« Reply #6 on: August 6, 2011, 11:45:27 AM »
Like the list and understand the use of the gloves.

But:

But the solitaire will max out to 10 attacks if you plan it well, and will not benefit from any extra weapon attacks so reroll to wound is a lot more useful. I might give the Shadowseer Powerblades.

(yes yes i know not BRB FAQ'd) bonus attack will let you go over the max of attacks.
Check CSM FAQ ;)
It's said there general enough that bonus attacks that are not standard each round of combat will let you go above the max ;)

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Offline benmannen

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Re: 1750p Harlequins, comments please
« Reply #7 on: August 7, 2011, 04:39:47 AM »
After 2 games I made a few tweaks. The Jetbikes are just too expensive. For the same points I got a small unit of Harlequins, a Venom and 2 Death Jesters. The Death Jesters will mount up in the Venom and the Harlies will Deep Strike.

I have now lost an important unit in each of my 2 games. The first one my Solitaire Mishapped and died and the second one my Shadowseer with 6 pimped Harlequins mishapped and died! That was almost 300ps  :(

So the small 5 man unit for 106p are my suicidal Deep Strikers, together with the Solitaire of course  :)

I tried Fusion Guns on both Venoms but really missed the range of Shuriken Cannons, and they are not bad at damaging Rhinos. It also seems like the Venoms just get Immobilized and are better gun towers stuck on the ground with 24" range  :) I am keeping two for a couple of games but have a Splinter Cannon on the Venom that the Death Jesters will mount up into.

So here's v2 of the list:

HQ

Great Harlequin 43
Powerblades 13
Fusion Pistol 10
Distortion Field 20
Masque of Dark Veil 45
Total 131

Shadowseer 48
Powerblades 13
Distortion Field 20
2 Benethai 24
Fusion Pistol 10
Total 115

ELITES

Solitaire 70
Stormglove 20
Distortion Field 25
Fusion Pistol 10
Total 125

Master Mime 35
Powerblades 13
Haywire Grenades 3
Total 51

TROOPS

6 Harlequins 108
5 Harlequins Kiss 20
1 Fusion Pistol 10
Troupe Master w Power Weapon 20
Harlequin Warlock 20
Total 178

Venom 45
Fusion Gun 10
Holofield 20
Total 75

6 Harlequins 108
5 Harlequins Kiss 20
1 Fusion Pistol 10
Harlequin Warlock 20
Total 158

Venom 45
Fusion Gun 10
Holofield 20
Total 75

6 Harlequins 108
5 Harlequins Kiss 20
Fusion Pistol 10
Total 138

Venom 45
Splinter Cannon 10
Holofield 20
Total 75

5 Harlequins  90
4 Harlequins Kiss 16
Total 106

7 Mimes 84
Mimic 10
Total 94

6 Mimes 72
Mimic 10
Total 82

FAST ATTACK

Mocking Bird 100
Shuriken Cannon 5
Holofield 20
Total 125

HEAVY SUPPORT

Harlequin Spiritwalker 110
Psycannon 40
2 Flamers 0
Harlequin Blade 15
Total 165

2 Death Jesters 56

Army total: 1749


Offline popsical

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Re: 1750p Harlequins, comments please
« Reply #8 on: August 9, 2011, 04:43:58 AM »
I was going to recommend the psycannon on the wraithlord, but I see you've spotted that lol.
Don't rule out the bikes, they add a super fast unit to the army which can pull off a great ++ save too.
Try them as a ranged harassment unit with just a couple of shuriken cannons, not all the cc tools.
If you cc the bikes then I recommend having an hq on jetbike to go with them as he/she is needed to finish off the target if they are the usual smurfs oppo.
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Offline Wyldhunt

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Re: 1750p Harlequins, comments please
« Reply #9 on: August 9, 2011, 04:56:05 AM »
Another note about bikes: stick a shadowseer on a bike with them, and you'll have a hard-hitting unit that is quite challenging to target before it gets into range. 14" away from the enemy is the "safe zone" for Veil of Tears.  Jetbikes can easily assault targets 18" away, so unless you get unlucky, you ought to be able to zoom in and pick your fights where you want them, and even a few bikes and a shadowseer can tear apart a lot of infantry units in the game.  Just shoot up the target in advance if you need to. ;)

Offline benmannen

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Re: 1750p Harlequins, comments please
« Reply #10 on: August 9, 2011, 05:20:17 AM »
Hmm, they are still too expensive for what they do. 4 Jetbikes at 51 points a pop is a lot. You get 6 Harlequins and a Venom for those points.

If you add a Shadowseer then you are spending 320ish points on a unit, way too much for my playstyle. I like having lots of disposable units, even using the Harlequins list.

Jetbikes are normally best in a support role, Harlequins on Jetbikes should be shock troops... Not run around a shoot. I wish I could fit them in, I love the models I made, but can't find room at 1750p.

Offline Wuestenfux

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Re: 1750p Harlequins, comments please
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2011, 12:04:57 PM »
Quote
8 Mimes 96
Mimic 10
Total 106

7 Mimes 84
Mimic 10
Total 94
Do Mimes not have any special weapons?

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Re: 1750p Harlequins, comments please
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2011, 12:32:02 PM »
Nope, they do come with some abilities that are nice, but have no upgrades other than a Mimic.

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Re: 1750p Harlequins, comments please
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2011, 02:57:16 AM »
Nope, they do come with some abilities that are nice, but have no upgrades other than a Mimic.
What codex are you using? Gav's or Rasmus'?

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Re: 1750p Harlequins, comments please
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2011, 03:57:10 AM »
I'm using Rasmus Codex, the one linked to in the top post in this thread:

http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=54897.0

Does anyone still use Gav old codex?

Offline Rasmus

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Re: 1750p Harlequins, comments please
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2011, 06:00:06 AM »
I would like to point out that it is not my codex, by any stretch of the imagination. It is the Community's codex. I just happen to be the one that started the thread and compiled the notes.

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