Topic: 27th Battaillon Jagers (Mordian Light Infantry)

['Mark']

You might have seen this thread, where I was looking for doctrines for my new Mordian Regiment, and Lieutenant Nightblade gave me the exellent idea of forming them into a Light Infantry Jagers regiment. Now, I'm still not sure on the idea, since I also really like the bright red parade uniform look, but I've made a 1000pts list to try out the Light infantry approach.

Now, I'm trying to make a fluffy list here, not tooled for optimum effectiveness, but I'm kinda worried that the list might not work at all. I've got enough extra troops to tweak this list a little (though not enough to make major changes), the only real limit on what you can suggest is adding infantry squads, I've got a few more ordinary troopers (enough for maybe one extra squad), but not much. I do have a lot of extra heavy weapon teams and special weapons (no plasmas), though.   EDIT: OK, no restrictions on what you can suggest. I'll buy more infantry.

To explain the two odd things in the list: 1) The grenadiers are there because I needed a second troop choice, but didn't have enough troopers to fill out a second platoon the way I wanted. They'll act as a sort of bodyguard for my mortar teams. Once I lose them the doctrine will be replaced by COD. 2) The mortars, I like them and they're fluffy.

So basically, how do you think this list will perform and what should be changed to make it perform better? Thanks guys!

EDIT: Updated list further down

(Bless Army Builder)


27th Battaillon Jagers   1000 Pts

Doctrines
     Regimental Organisation: Grenadiers
     Skills and Drills: Light Infantry
     Skills and Drills: Sharp Shooters
     Allow Heavy Weapon Platoons
     Skills and Drills: Iron Discipline

Command Platoon (HQ) @ 327 Pts

      Command Squad @ [97] Pts
          Lasguns (x3); Light Infantry; SharpShooters; Standard Bearer

              Senior Officer
                  Bolt Pistol; Close combat Weapon; Iron Discipline
                  Carapace Armour


      Anti Tank Squad #1 @ [130] Pts
          Lascannon (x3); Lasguns; Light Infantry; SharpShooters

      Fire Support Squad #2 @ [100] Pts
          Heavy Bolter (x3); Lasguns; Light Infantry; SharpShooters

Infantry Platoon (Troops) @ 354 Pts

      Command Squad @ [87] Pts
          Lasguns (x2); Grenade Launcher (x2); Light Infantry;
          SharpShooters

              Junior Officer
                   Bolt Pistol; Close combat Weapon; Iron Discipline
                   Carapace Armour

     6 Remnants @ [70] Pts
          Lasguns; Grenade Launcher; Light Infantry; SharpShooters

               Veteran Sergeant
                   Close combat Weapon; Laspistol

      Infantry Squad @ [94] Pts
          Lasguns; Grenade Launcher; Light Infantry; SharpShooters

               Veteran Sergeant
                   Close combat Weapon; Laspistol

      Infantry Squad @ [103] Pts
          Missile Launcher; Lasguns; Grenade Launcher; Light Infantry;
          SharpShooters

               Sergeant
                   Laspistol and CCW

5 Grenadiers @ 61 Pts
     Hellguns (x4); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades

         Grenadier Veteran Sergeant @
              Close combat Weapon; HellPistol; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
              Bionics

Heavy Weapon Platoon @ 258 Pts

      Command Squad @ [78] Pts
          Lasguns (x2); Flamer (x2); Light Infantry

               Junior Officer
                   Bolt Pistol; Close combat Weapon; Iron Discipline
                   Carapace Armour
                   Melta Bombs

      Mortar Squad #1 @ [90] Pts
          Mortars (x3); Lasguns; SharpShooters

      Mortar Squad #2 @ [90] Pts
          Mortars (x3); Lasguns; SharpShooters

Models in Army: 70


Total Army Cost: 1000pts

[PaxImperator]

Iron Discipline? I think you're overrating the Dutch army. It's a good doctrine however, and I can't blame you for taking it. You're using Mordians afterall, and the doctrine does fit the models.

Suggesting changes to your current army list is a bit hard because of the model restrictions. One thing I can say is that I wouldn't be feeling comfortable with so little in the way of heavy weapons. Autocannons and missile launchers would be nice, same goes for plasma guns, but getting the models would be a problem.

You should assign one of the mortar squads to the command platoon. You'll put 3 separate choices on the table before infiltrators, rather than 2. And why did you make them sharpshooters but not light infantry? Light infantry seems like the better of the two.

There's quite a bit of wargear on models that I'd personally ditch in an ideal world with plenty of models to choose from: carapace armour, bionics and melta bombs.

['Mark']

Iron Discipline? I think you're overrating the Dutch army. It's a good doctrine however, and I can't blame you for taking it. You're using Mordians afterall, and the doctrine does fit the models.

I couldn't not give those Mordian and Praetorian officers Iron Discipline. 

Suggesting changes to your current army list is a bit hard because of the model restrictions.

I'll remove the model restrictions then, I'm only short on lasgun troopers at the moment, but I'll buy some more when I get the chance and that should make me able to adept the list in almost any way I want.

One thing I can say is that I wouldn't be feeling comfortable with so little in the way of heavy weapons. Autocannons and missile launchers would be nice, same goes for plasma guns, but getting the models would be a problem.

I've got three autocannons. Missile launcher mordians are hard to come by, and I don't believe mordians even have a plasmagun model so I'd have to convert it which would take a hell of a lot of time seeing as they are metal models. But I do have autocannons if you'd like to see them in the list.

You should assign one of the mortar squads to the command platoon. You'll put 3 separate choices on the table before infiltrators, rather than 2.  And why did you make them sharpshooters but not light infantry? Light infantry seems like the better of the two.

Well, I could put them both in the HQ platoon and lose the heavy weapons platoon altogether. The command squad isn't really serving a purpose now anyway. It had four flamers originally, but I had to ditch two to 1) free up some points and 2) make them less of a target, seeing as I already have many fragile units...
Losing it would mean losing another squad, though, and it wouldn't free up enough points to add an infantry squad.
I could also give them meltaguns instead of flamers..

The mortars are in the heavy weapons platoon because it doesn't really matter much where they are positioned anyway, they just have to be behind some terrain. That's also why they don't have light infantry, I'll deploy them as far away from the enemy as possible, and that's my own deployment zone.

There's quite a bit of wargear on models that I'd personally ditch in an ideal world with plenty of models to choose from: carapace armour, bionics and melta bombs.

It's just 25 point in total - though I'd rather have none at all too, it could've been much worse. Unfortunately I can't do anything about the carapace and the bionics, mordian officers have a big breastplate and storm trooper sergeants have either bionics or a bolter and a plasma pistol. I added the melta bombs in case that assault squad ever gets close to a tank.

[PaxImperator]

I've got three autocannons. Missile launcher mordians are hard to come by, and I don't believe mordians even have a plasmagun model so I'd have to convert it which would take a hell of a lot of time seeing as they are metal models. But I do have autocannons if you'd like to see them in the list.

And Emperor bless you for taking those lascannons. I think some autocannons would be an excellent investment. They're good against lots of stuff, and even great against light and medium armour. I'm a big fan of the autocannon.

It's just 25 point in total - though I'd rather have none at all too, it could've been much worse. Unfortunately I can't do anything about the carapace and the bionics, mordian officers have a big breastplate and storm trooper sergeants have either bionics or a bolter and a plasma pistol. I added the melta bombs in case that assault squad ever gets close to a tank.

Agreed, it's not nearly as bad as some of the lists I've seen. And WYSIWYG is something I adhere to very firmly as well, so the wargear isn't too much of an issue.

If you happen to have any space marine plasma pistols, they're very useful for converting plasma guns on guardsmen. Pewter models do complicate matters, but there are still a few good models to try it on. I'd see if you could convert the missile loader to carry a plasmagun instead of his lasgun. He's the best candidate for the conversion, off the top of my head.

Without any model restrictions, I think a good army could look like:
command squad with banner and possibly a few useful items and weapons
lascannon squad
heavy bolter squad
2 mortar squads
2 command squads with any weapons you're still short on
4 infantry squads with missile launcher/autocannon & grenade launcher/plasmagun

You'd have to eliminate quite a few upgrades, but I think it could all be made to fit in a 1000 points list.

['Mark']

I've got three autocannons. Missile launcher mordians are hard to come by, and I don't believe mordians even have a plasmagun model so I'd have to convert it which would take a hell of a lot of time seeing as they are metal models. But I do have autocannons if you'd like to see them in the list.

And Emperor bless you for taking those lascannons. I think some autocannons would be an excellent investment. They're good against lots of stuff, and even great against light and medium armour. I'm a big fan of the autocannon.

Me too, but mainly on sentinels. But you are right that autocannons would fit my infantry squads best (seeing as missile launchers aren't readily available)   I didn't include heavy weapons in the squads because of the light infantry theme, but it might be wise to loosen up a bit in that respect. It also frees up 4 lasgun guys, with a bit of shifting around that should make me able to make four full squads.

If you happen to have any space marine plasma pistols, they're very useful for converting plasma guns on guardsmen. Pewter models do complicate matters, but there are still a few good models to try it on. I'd see if you could convert the missile loader to carry a plasmagun instead of his lasgun. He's the best candidate for the conversion, off the top of my head.

My Lyrax army needed 7 plasmaguns.... now I need to find new plasma pistols.   But even if I had them, I do not have the missile launcher models and it would still take a hell of a lot of time to convert. Not saying that I'll never add plasmaguns to this army, I just want to get a basic army up first before I start adding some special stuff.

Without any model restrictions, I think a good army could look like:
command squad with banner and possibly a few useful items and weapons
lascannon squad
heavy bolter squad
2 mortar squads
2 command squads with any weapons you're still short on
4 infantry squads with missile launcher/autocannon & grenade launcher/plasmagun

You'd have to eliminate quite a few upgrades, but I think it could all be made to fit in a 1000 points list.

I'm trying it out on army builder right now, give me a few minutes and I'll post an updated list.

['Mark']

Here it is:

27th Battaillon Jagers      1000 Pts 

Doctrines
     Skills and Drills: Light Infantry
     Skills and Drills: Sharp Shooters
     Allow Heavy Weapon Platoons
     Skills and Drills: Iron Discipline
     Skills and Drills: Close Order Drill

Command Platoon @ 402 Pts

     Command Squad
          Heavy Bolter; Lasguns (x2); Light Infantry; Standard Bearer; SharpShooters

               Junior Officer @ [46] Pts
                   Bolt Pistol; Close combat Weapon; Carapace Armour; Iron Discipline


      Anti Tank Squad #1 @ [130] Pts
          Lascannon (x3); Lasguns; Light Infantry; SharpShooters

      Fire Support Squad #2 @ [100] Pts
          Heavy Bolter (x3); Lasguns; Light Infantry; SharpShooters

      Mortar Squad #3 @ [80] Pts
          Mortars (x3); Lasguns

 Infantry Platoon (Troops) @ 291 Pts

      Command Squad @ [79] Pts
          Lasguns (x3); Grenade Launcher (x1); Close Order Drill; Light Infantry; SharpShooters

               Junior Officer @ [46] Pts
                   Bolt Pistol; Close combat Weapon; Carapace Armour; Iron Discipline

      Infantry Squad @ [109] Pts
          Autocannon; Lasguns; Grenade Launcher; Close Order Drill; Light Infantry; SharpShooters

               Veteran Sergeant
                   Close combat Weapon; Laspistol

      Infantry Squad @ [103] Pts
          Missile Launcher; Lasguns; Grenade Launcher; Close Order Drill; Light Infantry; SharpShooters

               Sergeant
                   Laspistol and CCW

Infantry Platoon (Troops) @ 307 Pts

      Command Squad @ [89] Pts
          Lasguns (x1); Flamer (x3); Close Order Drill; Light Infantry; SharpShooters

               Junior Officer @ [46] Pts
                   Bolt Pistol; Close combat Weapon; Carapace Armour; Iron Discipline

      Infantry Squad @ [109] Pts
          Autocannon; Lasguns; Grenade Launcher; Close Order Drill; Light Infantry; SharpShooters

               Veteran Sergeant
                    Close combat Weapon; Laspistol

      Infantry Squad @ [109] Pts
          Autocannon; Lasguns; Grenade Launcher; Close Order Drill; Light Infantry; SharpShooters

               Veteran Sergeant
                   Close combat Weapon; Laspistol

Models in Army: 73


Total Army Cost: 1000




Ain't perfect yet, but I think it's getting better. I hate to have lost the mortar squad, though, the mortars really are a central piece in my army...

[PaxImperator]

A double post? You should know better than that Mark. Naughty you.

Anyway, the list is looking much better to me, after the addition of some heavy firepower.

If you're really perturbed by the lack of mortars, you could very cheaply arm your command squads with them by ditching some of their special weapons.

Something else you could think about is leaving one flamer from a command squad at home and upgrading that last infantry squad sergeant to a veteran.

['Mark']

A double post? You should know better than that Mark. Naughty you.

 

Anyway, the list is looking much better to me, after the addition of some heavy firepower.

Yeah, thought so. Anything you'd change? Weapon layout of some squads? In total, I've got 9 mortar teams, 6 lascannons, 4 heavy bolters, 3 autocannons, 1 missile launcher, 5 grenade launchers, 5 flamer and 5 meltaguns, so I've got more than enough room for some weapon switching. 

If you're really perturbed by the lack of mortars, you could very cheaply arm your command squads with them by ditching some of their special weapons.

I've thought about that, but that would mean losing another squad (since it would be out of sight all game), and I'm already low on manpower for an all infantry army.

Something else you could think about is leaving one flamer from a command squad at home and upgrading that last infantry squad sergeant to a veteran.

That's what I had at first, but I've got mainly mordian figures and only a handful of Praetorian figures so in my fluff those are veterans. I've got three praetorian sergeant models, which I have as veteran sergeants, and use a mordian sergeant as a normal sergeant in the fourth squad. (It won't matter all that much and it looks fluffy)
Oh, I use the praetorian model with binoculars from the lascannon teams to represent the sharpshooters ability in each squad (haven't got enough of them yet so I have to use some mordian lascannon crew too), I think that'll make the squads look quite special when they're done.




Here's a picture of the first trooper I just painted (just a test model for the colour scheme, I'm going to strip it to test other schemes so the painting isn't of the highest quality), it was dark when I made the picture (damn rain/snow all day), so it isn't that great. I'll make some new pictures tomorrow, but I wanted to show it.




Here's one with flash just to show the colours better.





What d'you think? Be honest and cruel if you have to, having the right colour scheme is very important!

I've also thought about doing his pants grey (or greyish green).

[PaxImperator]

I think that the only real candidates for changes are the command squads. Their current weapons might be good, depending on your opponents and other factors. Still, the current configurations might need some tinkering. I think playtesting will clear that up quite quickly. I also wouldn't mind seeing, say, 2 plasma guns in the infantry squads. Not too many because of their supposed rarity, but not too few to pose a credible threat.

I've done a quick look around to find anything that could give you some inspiration as far as uniforms and colour schemes go:
http://home.skyaccess.nl/1weeg667/Fotos/Winterbivak2005/011_27eJagers.JPG
http://home.skyaccess.nl/1weeg667/Fotos/Winterbivak2005/038_27eJagersKorporaal.JPG
http://www.van-grinsven.nl/michel/hoofddeksels/documentatie/jagers01.jpg

Might I suggest filing down the Mordians' caps to make them resemble the jagers' headgear? I think that'd look great, as well as getting across the fact that these aren't your average parade ground Mordians.

As for your test model, it's pretty hard to judge without better quality pictures. I'm looking forward to seeing the follow-up shots you're planning to take.

['Mark']

I think that the only real candidates for changes are the command squads. Their current weapons might be good, depending on your opponents and other factors. Still, the current configurations might need some tinkering. I think playtesting will clear that up quite quickly. I also wouldn't mind seeing, say, 2 plasma guns in the infantry squads. Not too many because of their supposed rarity, but not too few to pose a credible threat.

Agreed, I'll try to play test it some day soon and I'll beat up some SM players for their plasma pistols. I'm quite happy with the list, I hope it performs well..

I've done a quick look around to find anything that could give you some inspiration as far as uniforms and colour schemes go:
http://home.skyaccess.nl/1weeg667/Fotos/Winterbivak2005/011_27eJagers.JPG
http://home.skyaccess.nl/1weeg667/Fotos/Winterbivak2005/038_27eJagersKorporaal.JPG
http://www.van-grinsven.nl/michel/hoofddeksels/documentatie/jagers01.jpg

Thanks, those are really helpful! I've already got the the Imperial Eagles painted in orange (well, a sloppy mix of blood red and bubonic brown by the lack of real orange paint) and you can see why I thought about painting his pants grey. I also think I should replace the white edge with yellow. (orange, yellow, grey... Darnit! I've got none of those colours.  )

Might I suggest filing down the Mordians' caps to make them resemble the jagers' headgear? I think that'd look great, as well as getting across the fact that these aren't your average parade ground Mordians.

Hm, I think I have a spare lascannon operator lying around, I'll try it out and let you know how it looks.

As for your test model, it's pretty hard to judge without better quality pictures. I'm looking forward to seeing the follow-up shots you're planning to take.

Yeah, I really hope I can get some decent sunlight tomorrow...     It's also very annoying that I don't have the right colours to try out the orange/yellow/grey. I might give it a shot anyway with some mixing and using bubonic brown instead of yellow, then you'll get pictures of two models tomorrow.