40K Online
The Armies of 40k => Imperial Forces => Topic started by: 'Mark' on November 26, 2005, 10:09:32 AM
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Some of you might've seen my thread (http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=102930.0)a few weeks ago, when I was looking for what to do with my new mordian army. The best idea was to create a Napoleonic Jagers regiment, one that I'm loosely basing on this (http://www.wargame.ch/wc/nwc/newsletter/November2001/Newsletter16/DutchHistory.html).
For my list, see here (http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=104770.msg1217941#msg1217941).
Now, while I'm still not 100% sure I am going to make this army or not, I have made two test models that I'd like your opinion on. (I figured the Guard board was more suited for this thread than the painting board as I'm not looking for any painting advice, I just want to know what uniform looks best)
The things I'd like your opinion on:
1) The rifle, either the more 'clean' look or the rusty lasgun? (doesn't show too well on the picture, but I'm sure you can imagine how the barrel looks in real life)
2) White trim or yellow (or a third colour)?
3) Grey trousers or green trousers? (Don't mind the boots, they're meant to be black)
4) Abandon the idea and go for a red/white parade uniform?
Note that these are test models, I didn't try to get the best quality of painting on models that'll most likely be stripped again anyway. I hope the pictures are clear enough (Sun didn't shine all day, so getting good pictures was kinda hard..)
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy18%2Fsatormortis%2FP1010014_edited.jpg&hash=57ebabb12e2f65db0f46197c78ada0d977ddedce)(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy18%2Fsatormortis%2FP1010030_edited.jpg&hash=8930f0e4d2318d56f4e6cca3e149f6899995f21a)
EDIT: inserted better picture.
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I like the yellow trim and the grey trousers. I also like the lasgun on the left; the other one looks kind of monochromatic, which seems strange. And I think it's a great idea, and that you should stick with it. Maybe you should greenstuff the shako a little to make it more like the ones in your link.
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i like the white trim, the grey pants, the "clean" las gun, and the over all look on the model
Commissar Cadet Fidel
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I too like the yellow trim and grey paints better . I also like the "clean" lasgun better - it better matches the image of parade troops. However, I do like the darker green better (contrasts better with the yellow), especially if you give them grey pants. As well, the darker & shinier black boots look better than the greyer ones of the figure on the right.
Actually, those are pretty good for test models.
Some suggestions:
The pants might look good with either a white or a yellow line down the outside seam (like the strip of red ribbon often seen down calvary pants).
In a related thread, someone suggested taking a dremel and carving down the caps. I would strongly suggest that. With the caps the Mordians have, to me they never look like anything than US Marines in Parade Dress (thus meaning that all modrians look the same), no matter how they are painted. Change the cap, and you'll have a much more distinctive looking force.
Inquisitor Psychologis Ruminahui
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1. I prefer the clean rifle look.
2. Yellow goes great with green.
3. The grey trousers look better, but I'd try to get them slightly darker than they currently are. I'd try shadow grey layered over chaos black.
4. No. We've seen plenty of those. Being different is good. :)
Might I also suggest experimenting with applying tufts of static grass on top of a layer of painted sand? It looks better than the current football pitch look in my opinion.
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I like the darker green best, and prefer the yellow trim, but I'm not too keen on the grey pants. Maybe you could make the pants white? Stark, clean white always looks good on parade ground models. Oh, and definitely stick to the clean lasgun. As for the shako, trimming down the caps might be a lot of work (and you'd definitely need a dremel to stand a chance), but I do agree with Dr. Rum that altering the look of the models a bit would be great. How about making plumes for them? If you take a short piece of nylon string and melt the bottom with a lighter, it will hold together; then you can trim the string down until it looks good as a plume.
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Well actually i'd advocate the top pic overall. The white trim looks much cleaner and I don't like the Grey pants and yellow trim.
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I like the grey pants and yellow trim with maybe a stripe running down the sides. The clean gun looks better as well.
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- I must say that I'm drawn towards the grey trousers as well. The green looks good, the grey just looks better..
I don't think white pants would look very realistic, as they are meant to be light infantry... You don't go stalking through the bushes in clean white pants :P
The grey trousers look better, but I'd try to get them slightly darker than they currently are. I'd try shadow grey layered over chaos black.
- Didn't have any grey, so I had to mix it... I could've done that a little better, I'll give you that. I'll go to the store Friday (maybe earlier) to buy some paints and greenstuff. (Really annoying that I can't really start painting before I've gone to the stupid store... >:()
- Good point about the darker green, I am often inclined to drybrush too bright.
- It seems that the vast majority of people prefer the 'clean' lasgun look. I actually seem to be the only person who even likes the rusty look... Well, I'll just put in a few rusty ones at random and give the majority a clean look.
- White, yellow, white, yellow, white, yellow.. I agree that the yellow suits the green better, but I find the white more formal looking.. I think I'll go with an overall yellow trim, and see if white looks good on my officers.
The pants might look good with either a white or a yellow line down the outside seam (like the strip of red ribbon often seen down calvary pants).
- Hah! That's the kind of ideas I need! :D I'll try it out. Maybe it needs a little greenstuff to look good, unfortunately I can't test that now, but I'll let you know how it works out.
Might I also suggest experimenting with applying tufts of static grass on top of a layer of painted sand? It looks better than the current football pitch look in my opinion.
- Yeah, I was thinking about using gravel from the tennis court drybrushed with snakebite leather or bestial brown, with some static grass tufts.
- As for the caps, I now have three ideas for them. 1) Add some plumes to them 2) trimming them down like this: http://www.van-grinsven.nl/michel/hoofddeksels/documentatie/jagers01.jpg (http://www.van-grinsven.nl/michel/hoofddeksels/documentatie/jagers01.jpg) 3) use greenstuff to make them higher like in this picture: http://home.skyaccess.nl/1weeg667/Fotos/Winterbivak2005/011_27eJagers.JPG (http://home.skyaccess.nl/1weeg667/Fotos/Winterbivak2005/011_27eJagers.JPG)
What d'you think will look better?
EDIT: p.s. Thanks all! :D
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- Yeah, I was thinking about using gravel from the tennis court drybrushed with snakebite leather or bestial brown, with some static grass tufts.
I don't know quite how big that gravel is, but I have a gut feeling it's probably slightly too big. I use normal sand (stolen from a sandbox. Had to beat up a 6 year old to get to it) which I find to be just the right size. Some small sprue clippings can also be used to represent interesting small stones. They only look good when the majority of the base is sand though, the clippings all by themselves look too big. As for the drybrushing, I find it looks good to use at least two shades of brown to build up the highlights. It doesn't take that much extra time and the highlights look a lot more natural and less stark.
- As for the caps, I now have three ideas for them. 1) Add some plumes to them 2) trimming them down like this: http://www.van-grinsven.nl/michel/hoofddeksels/documentatie/jagers01.jpg 3) use greenstuff to make them higher like in this picture: http://home.skyaccess.nl/1weeg667/Fotos/Winterbivak2005/011_27eJagers.JPG
How about trimming them down and then adding green stuff plumes? I can only speak for myself but I think I'd have trouble getting a smooth finish and consistent on those tall hats.
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I like the model on the right. Things I'd personally change though...
1) Hat: Make it either green as the unifrom or grey as the pants. Otherwise the model looks a little "3 stages".
2) Yellow stripe down the grey pants to match the coat.
3) Darker Lasgun casing. Maybe black?
All in all, I like your uniqueness of uniform, though.
EDIT messed up grammar.
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- Yeah, I was thinking about using gravel from the tennis court drybrushed with snakebite leather or bestial brown, with some static grass tufts.
I don't know quite how big that gravel is, but I have a gut feeling it's probably slightly too big. I use normal sand (stolen from a sandbox. Had to beat up a 6 year old to get to it) which I find to be just the right size. Some small sprue clippings can also be used to represent interesting small stones. They only look good when the majority of the base is sand though, the clippings all by themselves look too big. As for the drybrushing, I find it looks good to use at least two shades of brown to build up the highlights. It doesn't take that much extra time and the highlights look a lot more natural and less stark.
Well, I haven't used it before, but I think that if I only use the tiny bits of gravel, it will look like little pebbles. But I could combine it with sand too, or use some green or brown flock.
- As for the caps, I now have three ideas for them. 1) Add some plumes to them 2) trimming them down like this: http://www.van-grinsven.nl/michel/hoofddeksels/documentatie/jagers01.jpg 3) use greenstuff to make them higher like in this picture: http://home.skyaccess.nl/1weeg667/Fotos/Winterbivak2005/011_27eJagers.JPG
How about trimming them down and then adding green stuff plumes? I can only speak for myself but I think I'd have trouble getting a smooth finish and consistent on those tall hats.
Heh, making them all look smooth and consistent by trimming them down will probably cause just as much trouble :P I'm no hero with a file! But I do like your idea. However I could also add the plumes to the tall hats... what d'you think will look more special, the trimmed down caps or the tall ones?
3) Darker Lasgun. casting. Maybe black?
Well, I'm looking for a bit of a cheap looking lasgun. I think black will make it look too... high-tech. Other suggestions for the lasgun are welcome, of course. :)
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If you're not going for white pants, I'll change my vote to white trim instead. I mean, models like this just scream for some crisp white, don't they? Don't they? :P
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I second the idea that the hats should be a different colour, but I don't think they should be grey - go with the same colour as the jacket (so, dark green). I would still actively encourage dremmling the top "bulge" off them, so that the sides are flat - both so that they don't look like every other mordian, and so that they will look more like the hats you showed us. If you have a power tool, this step would actually be quite easy.
BTW, the tall caps would look better, but would still require you to trim down the hats (otherwise you would have a big bulge half way up the hat) and, as you would also have to green stuff them, would be more difficult to do than the shot caps.
Oh, another way to get rid of the top bulge would be to can the top of the cap off with a jewel saw or a dremel. This might be more fiddly (I would have to try both to know for sure), and you definitely would have to green stuff the cap up to the desired height.
I think the taller plume is a good idea. Drill a small hole on the top of the hat with a pin vise, then glue in a short bit of pin or paper clip (I think pin would be better, so the plume doesn't get too wide) of the desired length. Then wrap this bit of pin in green stuff and detail it with a pin to make it look more feathery. Should look good - though, if you don't dremmel the caps, it would look pretty silly, IMHO.
If you go for white trim on the uniform, I would also go for white trim on the pants (I still think yellow would look better, but they are your models, so you decide 8)). I wouldn't green stuff the strip though - it would be much to easy to make the strip either irregular or too thick, and I don't think those risks (and extra effort) are worth it when almost the same effect can be acchieved with paint. Just paint a black stip down first, and then the strip of white or yellow covering the black. If a tiny line of black shows on either side, great, so long as it never gets too thick.
I don't think black lasgun would look too futuristic - but another option would be to paint the casing like wood grain - that might look cool.
Inquisitor Psychologis Ruminahui
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I like your first picture's uniform color best, Mark. Rifle green with white trims and gold epaulettes. Perfect 'jager' appearance. I would use this look and reccomend that you stick to that color :)
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If you're not going for white pants, I'll change my vote to white trim instead. I mean, models like this just scream for some crisp white, don't they? Don't they? :P
Yes, though I think the yellow looks better, it feels like such a crime not to include some clean white...
Thanks, Dr_Ruminahui, for your excellent suggestions. I've got a whole bunch of good ideas now, which I'll try out as soon as I can get my hands on some new greenstuff. I'll try the trimming down on some extra lascannon operators later today or tomorrow I've got as a left-over, hopefully I can get a pic up for you so you can see how that works out.
If you go for white trim on the uniform, I would also go for white trim on the pants (I still think yellow would look better, but they are your models, so you decide 8)). I wouldn't green stuff the strip though - it would be much to easy to make the strip either irregular or too thick, and I don't think those risks (and extra effort) are worth it when almost the same effect can be acchieved with paint. Just paint a black stip down first, and then the strip of white or yellow covering the black. If a tiny line of black shows on either side, great, so long as it never gets too thick.
Sorry, with 'maybe it needs a little greenstuff' I meant adding some buttons or something similar, not make the whole strip out of greenstuff.
I don't think black lasgun would look too futuristic - but another option would be to paint the casing like wood grain - that might look cool.
I find wood grain not easy to paint, certainly not easy enough to use it on 100+ guardsmen + heavy weapons...
Right, I made another really quick test model yesterday based on some suggestions. The green and grey are both a bit darker (doesn't show too well in this light), I changed the lasgun, I added yellow trim to the trousers and changed the base - which looks terrible in this picture.. (I didn't paint his cap because I'm still searching for the right type of hat, I also didn't do the eagles, but you can't really see those from this angle anyway.) I think it's quite the opposite of what Commissar Leonidas would've liked me to do, but it's not my fault he didn't post until today. :P
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy18%2Fsatormortis%2FP1010045_edited.jpg&hash=04dc061c9a405e31ae41c34a6896b83c7cc68f08)
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Is it me or are your photography skills developping Mark? ;)
I really like the test mini. The pants have come out just right in my opinion, and the green and yellow go together very well.
Now some suggestions:
-I think that blacklining the ammo pouches would make them look better.
-A black lasgun casing wouldn't look bad at all in my opinion.
-If the base's texture looks as plain in real life as it does in the picture, I'd consider another drybrush, probably graveyard earth, kommando khaki or bleached bone.
-I'd highlight the boots and lasgun with codex grey.
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Is it me or are your photography skills developping Mark? ;)
Photoshop :P I'm learning how it can actually improve the quality my pictures.. ;)
Now some suggestions:
-I think that blacklining the ammo pouches would make them look better.
-A black lasgun casing wouldn't look bad at all in my opinion.
-If the base's texture looks as plain in real life as it does in the picture, I'd consider another drybrush, probably graveyard earth, kommando khaki or bleached bone.
-I'd highlight the boots and lasgun with codex grey.
Heh, actually, they are drybrushed and highlighted. Just... poorly. It was a real quicky, this one. You're right about the ammo pouches, though. But thanks for noticing all this, if I miss this kind of stuff on a test model, there's every change that I'll miss it on other models too. :)
I'll keep the black casing in mind, multiple people have suggested it now, so it's something I should consider.
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I like the latest test model the best. White is okay, but I don't feel you absolutely need to have it on your models, Mordian or no. The bright yellow gets the point across just fine in my opinion.
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I think it's quite the opposite of what Commissar Leonidas would've liked me to do, but it's not my fault he didn't post until today. :P
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy18%2Fsatormortis%2FP1010045_edited.jpg&hash=04dc061c9a405e31ae41c34a6896b83c7cc68f08)
Nevermind. As long as it is still rifle green, its OK. Still jager-ish look to me :)
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the leg striping looks very fitting, german general staff wore red stripes on the pant legs, i know there not germans. but looking pretty nice.
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I like the look on that new test model. The stripe on the pants came out really well - good work!
it feels like such a crime not to include some clean white...
It is. Just for your peace of mind, you might want to try white trim on that model ;D Should be OK if you leave the eupalettes and buttons yellow (or even turn them into metallic bronze/gold).
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Can't say I agree with the white thing - yellow looks better, IMHO. 8)
Anyway, your most recent fig looks very nice. In fact, the colour of grey in that photo looks fine, and the green is almost dark enough - I hope your figs aren't too much darker. 8)
Doing wood grain is actually pretty easy. First, paint the bits a tan type colour (Bleached Bone works - I use Tamiya Deck Tan, as it is warmer). Then choose a middly brown with some warmth to it (Bestial Brown might work - I use Ral Partha (or who ever they are now) African Brown) and draw slightly squiggly lines paralel to each other down the length of the gun. Then, when those are dry (or almost dry), give it a wash of the same colour. The technique has worked for me.
Inquisitor Psychologis Ruminahui
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Anyway, your most recent fig looks very nice. In fact, the colour of grey in that photo looks fine, and the green is almost dark enough - I hope your figs aren't too much darker. 8)
Nah, they aren't. I'm quite happy with the grey, actually, though I need to find a better way to drybrush the green on these models..
But anyway, I got this shade of grey by mixing black with white, but to save some time it would be nice if I could just use a grey colour. Does anyone know if Fortress Grey would look enough alike? (If not I'll just keep to the slower method of mixing, the quality is more important. But stil, I have to paint upwards 120 models, so anything that could speed up the process of painting would help.) I've got codex grey on my Hive army, but that certainly is too dark.. (EDIT: can be seen here (http://www.40konline.com/index.php?topic=82357.msg1225493#msg1225493), don't mind the horrible highlights and shading, it's a hive army, I needed a fast method to paint lots of troopers!)
Doing wood grain is actually pretty easy. First, paint the bits a tan type colour (Bleached Bone works - I use Tamiya Deck Tan, as it is warmer). Then choose a middly brown with some warmth to it (Bestial Brown might work - I use Ral Partha (or who ever they are now) African Brown) and draw slightly squiggly lines paralel to each other down the length of the gun. Then, when those are dry (or almost dry), give it a wash of the same colour. The technique has worked for me.
In my experience you have to be very precise when doing wood grain for it to look good. But I'll most certainly give it a try. :)
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Fortress Grey would be quite a bit lighter - even with a black wash. You might try it and see what you think. A nice, medium grey is the aptly named Tamiya Medium Grey - though that might end up a bit too dark with a black wash.
I found that wood grain is tough to do - unless you give it a brown wash. Indeed, it tends to look best if you do the wash while the stripes are still slightly wet, so that you smudge them slightly. Still, I would choose a fairly thin brush to do the stripes. 8)
Inquisitor Psychologis Ruminahui
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Fortress Grey would be quite a bit lighter - even with a black wash. You might try it and see what you think. A nice, medium grey is the aptly named Tamiya Medium Grey - though that might end up a bit too dark with a black wash.
I found that wood grain is tough to do - unless you give it a brown wash. Indeed, it tends to look best if you do the wash while the stripes are still slightly wet, so that you smudge them slightly. Still, I would choose a fairly thin brush to do the stripes. 8)
Right, I'll give that a try.
I'll probably go to the store tomorrow, to buy some greenstuff and paints, so hopefully I'll be able to show you some converted troopers real soon! (I know I said that I'd probably go today, but we had this math thing today from 8.30 till 16.00... I only just got home.)
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Right, that took a bit longer than expected, but some things came up...
I don't think these pictures show all too well how they'll look when painted, but I wanted to give people a chance to laugh at my green sstuff skills. I'm not extremely happy with the quality of the conversion, but I do really like how this will look when done properly. I'll post the painted model tomorrow, it's too dark to take pictures now.
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy18%2Fsatormortis%2FP1010128_edited.jpg&hash=0d792a3a465f92e7c62b6bcab13dc61dedb3c3c1)(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy18%2Fsatormortis%2FP1010131_edited.jpg&hash=199417cb15362a184d0eaaf6444b5fc53703e112)
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Haha.
But no really it looks good.
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That hat looks brilliant already - I think that with a paintjob, it will look amazing! Have you considered bearskin hats for veterans?
Are you sure you're up to doing a whole army that way, though?
Oh, and they need some white - don't make me use my jedi mind tricks on you :o
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I agree - those look really good. They don't look like Mordians anymore - those guard are now unique and, I must say, proudly so.
Personally, I don't think you have anything to complain about in regards to your results. Sure, they will become more polished with practice, but that first attempt is definitely good enough to be part of your final army.
Inquisitor Psychologis Ruminahui
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Great stuff Mark, it looks amazing. :)
I'm wondering, just how vulnerable is that feather? It looks like it might be prone to breaking off, especially during transport. If you move your army around a lot it might be a good idea to arm the feather with a thin piece of metal wire, to give it some protection.
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Wow... you did an awesome job with that feather! Now you really have the look. Say, what color will the feather be?
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That hat looks brilliant already - I think that with a paintjob, it will look amazing! Have you considered bearskin hats for veterans?
I was taking Praetorians as my vets, but I might convert some of them to have bearskin hats.. but that's still a long way off, I'm just starting on my infantry.
Are you sure you're up to doing a whole army that way, though?
Yes, it's not a very difficult conversion, just a little time consuming. But if I do a couple per day or so, I should have a playable force by the end of January... And I certainly think it's worth the effort if I get such an unique army in the end!
Oh, and they need some white - don't make me use my jedi mind tricks on you :o
OK, what if I'll do some of the details on the knives white? Like the first model?
Personally, I don't think you have anything to complain about in regards to your results. Sure, they will become more polished with practice, but that first attempt is definitely good enough to be part of your final army.
Yeah, he doesn't look too bad.. just been a little grumpy last couple of days (bike stolen, got stranded in the middle of nowhere because I forgot to get out of the train, etc.), so it had to be perfect! Dammit!
Great stuff Mark, it looks amazing. :)
I'm wondering, just how vulnerable is that feather? It looks like it might be prone to breaking off, especially during transport. If you move your army around a lot it might be a good idea to arm the feather with a thin piece of metal wire, to give it some protection.
It's vulnerable, but I'm guessing it will stick unless you really try to get it off. It has a little pin made out of green stuff in it, making sure it will either stick or fall off completely without any damage; you can just glue it back on. Congratulations on your promotion, btw.
Now, painted pics. ;D I apologise of the lack of eyes, but I prefer to do that kind of details with natural light - hard to get by during winter when it's already almost dark when I get home. Also, the strange orange thingy on his hat is meant to be an Aquila, but I got a little to enthusiastic with green stuff and accidentally covered half of it...
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy18%2Fsatormortis%2F1.jpg&hash=e7fdf6a625ed72f742e4bd09d519a11132371026)(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy18%2Fsatormortis%2F3.jpg&hash=7c8cf3bb5d295b03de56f1a478f004a555cb9f78)(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy18%2Fsatormortis%2F2.jpg&hash=f0bf0008fdbd5bbb9c16804a1c883cd30c86ffa2)
He has a bit of an odd look in that last picture...
But anyway, what d'you all think? Be honest and cruel, I'm looking for improvements!
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Dang thats a really nice paint job.
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Honest and cruel? Coming right up. ;)
You might want to try out some more yellowish static grass. I wasn't satisfied with GW static grass so I went to a model railway store (Meyer & Blessing in my case) and got a different kind. I haven't looked back since then.
I don't know about the yellow and green plume. Some people have constantly been proposing some white details, and that feather may be the perfect excuse to do just that.
The model looks quite good with paint on it. My following suggestions are based purely on how some of the colours appear to be, looking at the pictures. So you may want to ignore some of my suggestions if the model looks different in real life.
The yellow details looks a bit dirty and dark. I'd add another highlight to make them brighter.
The red/brown/orange details on the hat and uniform don't look very effective. I'd try something brighter again, probably scab red, red gore and blood red layered on in that order.
Congratulations on your promotion, btw.
Thanks. And the same to you. :) Sorry to hear about your recent stroke of misfortune by the way.
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Well Mark that looks like a nice Veteran there...
i would suggest as Pax has said to try a white feather with maybe a red tip at the end of it(just my honest opinion :))
The uniform colours look quite good anb better than the proof model infact. It's good to make those kind of conversion when at the end you will get an unique army(as you have said) that will outstand in front of any other army.
Some suggestions:
-If you dont want to suffer from frail GS work with the feather, there are some plastic sprues(from WHFB) from the Empire thatinclude plastic feathers(more durable). Maybe your friends have some?
-The face needs a bit of work there, it doesn't look "clean" if you know what I mean, the details are a bit obscured. Maybe its the light?
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You might want to try out some more yellowish static grass. I wasn't satisfied with GW static grass so I went to a model railway store (Meyer & Blessing in my case) and got a different kind. I haven't looked back since then.
Good point. But well, all my bases look like crap until the army is finished :P Painting bases is so darn boring, I always stop half way through and just dump some flock on it... Then when the army is all done, I re-do all the bases (so terribly inefficient.. but I really can't stand painting bases!)
I don't know about the yellow and green plume. Some people have constantly been proposing some white details, and that feather may be the perfect excuse to do just that.
Knew someone was going to say that.. I myself was torn between white and yellow, choosing yellow in the end so I wouldn't have too many different vertical colours on the model. Next trooper I'll do will have a white-tipped plume, though, maybe even white as base colour.
The yellow details looks a bit dirty and dark. I'd add another highlight to make them brighter.
Funny you'd say that, I actually had to darken it a little. It's the same colour as this (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/satormortis/P1010045_edited.jpg)guy had.
The red/brown/orange details on the hat and uniform don't look very effective. I'd try something brighter again, probably scab red, red gore and blood red layered on in that order.
I agree. But I really want to make it orange, seeing as it's based on a Dutch Jagers force. I'll have to find a way to make the orange more striking.
Congratulations on your promotion, btw.
Thanks. And the same to you. :) Sorry to hear about your recent stroke of misfortune by the way.
Meh, it's all kinda funny when you look back on it. :)
-If you dont want to suffer from frail GS work with the feather, there are some plastic sprues(from WHFB) from the Empire thatinclude plastic feathers(more durable). Maybe your friends have some?
I'll check them out, maybe it'll come in handy. Thanks for the tip!
-The face needs a bit of work there, it doesn't look "clean" if you know what I mean, the details are a bit obscured. Maybe its the light?
I think that's partly because it doesn't have eyes yet. It could use some cleaning up, though, but I don't think it's too bad, the pictures aren't very kind to his face.. :-\
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Funny you'd say that, I actually had to darken it a little. It's the same colour as this guy had.
I'll retract that comment then. I did like it on the first guy so it's probably just the lighting that's making me dislike it on this one.
I agree. But I really want to make it orange, seeing as it's based on a Dutch Jagers force. I'll have to find a way to make the orange more striking.
One suggestion I see a lot when it comes to painting bright colours over darker ones is to first apply a coat of skull white over the darker colour. It'll lessen the dark colour's dimming effect on the brighter one. I think blazing orange is just the colour you're looking for.
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I think it looks awesome, you'll have an army to be proud of when they're all done like that. And the white buttons are a nice touch ;)
My two cents:
- I think the orange would work way better if you highlighted it. Highlighting aquilas is easy peasy - just line the top feathers and the tops of the heads. I realise this is a test model so forget about what I said if that's on the list for the final product.
- Like the others, I'd recommend a bright, contrasting colour combo for the feather. Those things are eye catchers and, IMO, shouldn't repeat any colours from the uniform. White with a red tip always looks amazing, but you could alter the colours per platoon/squad (which is kinda historically correct too, though that worked more by function than by unit). And you could add thin black striping to denote NCO's.
- I have a bazillion Empire feathers cluttering up the bottom of my bitz box, I'd be more than happy to stuff a few dozen into an envelope and send them to you, if you want them.
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- Like the others, I'd recommend a bright, contrasting colour combo for the feather. Those things are eye catchers and, IMO, shouldn't repeat any colours from the uniform. White with a red tip always looks amazing, but you could alter the colours per platoon/squad (which is kinda historically correct too, though that worked more by function than by unit). And you could add thin black striping to denote NCO's.
- I have a bazillion Empire feathers cluttering up the bottom of my bitz box, I'd be more than happy to stuff a few dozen into an envelope and send them to you, if you want them.
That is teamwork! You see Mark, somebody turns up having a lot of feathers! That is the spirit boys!
Cheers with the idea Helstrom, to have diferent colours for squad markings, I would do if I were you...
White base for all feathers, and for every squad a different colour tip, and sergeants and the such could get the whole feather painted in the tip colour. This would be you choice really.
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The aquila would lookl good gold, IMHO. Yes, I know gold isn't orange, but...
You might want to do the feathers different coulours to show platoons and squads. You could do the body of the feather the platoon colour (so, this guy would be from "green" platoon) and the top of the feather the squad colour (so, "yellow" squad). Be a way to tell your squads appart but still make them look unified. 8)
Inquisitor Psychologis Ruminahui
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- I have a bazillion Empire feathers cluttering up the bottom of my bitz box, I'd be more than happy to stuff a few dozen into an envelope and send them to you, if you want them.
Wow, that would be awesome! How do you think those feathers will look on a Praetorian helmet? I'm using Praetorians as vets (including veteran sergeants, 'corporals' who represent sharpshooters doctrine, officers, my standard bearer, etc), and they should look a little special. I could give my normal troopers a plume like on the picture, and save the larger feathers for veterans. Opinions?
Thanks a million for being willing to give me a bunch of feathers, I think they'll look great on my models!
I like the idea of having platoon/squad feathers/plumes. Any suggested combinations, besides white and red?
I'll work on the orange for the next model.
Sorry for the short answer, bit in a hurry.. but I've got a day off tomorrow, I'm hoping to finish a few more models.
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No prob :)
I don't think feathers would look all that hot on a Praetorian pith helmet, those things seem to reject decoration somehow (except maybe for a seal or badge style thing on the front). Anyway, I'm pretty sure I can provide you with enough feathers to kit your whole force if you'd like - there's double feathers, too, which might be nice for NCO's and officers? Are you familiar with the Empire feathers? Feel free to drop me an email so we can work out the details.
Oh, you wouldn't happen to have any spare Cadian vox casters, would you?
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I don't think feathers would look all that hot on a Praetorian pith helmet, those things seem to reject decoration somehow (except maybe for a seal or badge style thing on the front).
Yeah, my idea was to do it somewhat like the plumes. Don't think that would look too bad..
Oh, you wouldn't happen to have any spare Cadian vox casters, would you?
Did a quick check, think I've got about a small dozen (9-10) lying around. They're yours if you need them :)
I'll send you a PM later today (as soon as I can, but I'm a bit busy), or you can email me if you find that easier (your email address is hidden..) Thanks again!
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Deal! :D
I've opened my email to the general public (didn't even know it was disabled).
The feathers do come with a little decorative attachment nob on the bottom, now that I think of it. That might look pretty good if they sit on the front of the helmet. Don't matter, I'll gather up a bunch and you can figure out what looks best where.
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Why do things always take me a week longer than expected?
Anyway, sorry for the delay, I had to paint some stuff for my existing armies (and as we all know, existing armies come before new armies!) I did finish greenstuffing some hats, though.
I've done a quick head with white plume with red tip. Didn't paint the rest of the model yet (just some quick grey and green for overall appearance), so just say so when it's impossible to judge the plume like this...
Is this better than a green/yellow plume, or would you rather see different colours?
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy18%2Fsatormortis%2F7652_edited.jpg&hash=5ca943fcb5455a0238753fe2d6ee31e82d522743)
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It's hard to tell without the rest of the model painted, but from where it stands now, I think i like the white/red better. However, I still think your feathers should be your way of showing units, so I hope this is white platoon, red squad. 8)
BTW, do you intend to paint his hands? I hope so. Otherwise I think he will be too dark.
Inquisitor Psychologis Ruminahui
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I like this one much better than the yellow and green one.
I don't know about using coloured plumes to denote squads however. I think it'd go at the expense of the unified, uniform look of the army. What I'd do is paint squad numbers on the backs of the headgear, or perhaps on the lasgun casings (that should be black :P) with skull white.
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That looks splendid!
I think that historically, plumes were often used to denote companies or battalions per purpose - ie. flank company, centre company, grenadier company, skirmishers company, and so forth. You might use a similar system if you have platoons with different tasks?
If you have a platoon of 40 of those guys arranged in a square, with the HQ in the middle, it will look bloody awesome 8)
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BTW, do you intend to paint his hands? I hope so. Otherwise I think he will be too dark.
Nah, I thought I'd leave 'em the way I primed them.
Anyway, I do like the idea of using the plumes to identify squads and platoons, but I also agree with Pax that it would go at the expense of uniformity. Helstrom's idea of changing it per platoon may be the answer, that way not every squad will have a different colour plume but the plumes can still be used to identify the three different platoons in my army (Command, first and second platoon)
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Well, I think you can do the squads different without sacrificing uniformity, by making the "body" of the feather designate the platoon and the "tip" the squad. However, one can't really tell whether they would look too different until you paint up two units. I would recommend doing the first one all with white and red like this one, then try the next with white and something else. If it doesn't work, it should be easy enough to quickly swap the tip colour.
And Pax, I can see wher eyou are coming from, but I think numbers on that kind of hat would look silly.
Inquisitor Psychologis Ruminahui
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Well, I think you can do the squads different without sacrificing uniformity, by making the "body" of the feather designate the platoon and the "tip" the squad. However, one can't really tell whether they would look too different until you paint up two units. I would recommend doing the first one all with white and red like this one, then try the next with white and something else. If it doesn't work, it should be easy enough to quickly swap the tip colour.
You're right, I'll just give it a shot and see where I end up.
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Mark,
I really like the unit. It retains some Mordian value but now looks like an 18th century Dragoon. It would be especially awesome if you made a Rough Riders Squad out of them.
(https://www.40konline.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimagecloset.com%2F1%2F12591117-18th+Light+Dragoons.jpg&hash=a49f91cff457b591b0c1e0aaaa9ef938a04d9ad1)
That would be a killer unit.
Concerning the unit you posted. I know its primed, but are you still gona go with the gold/yellow trim that looked awesome. I never liked the Mordians, but your unit just comes out as something completely original. Like a pocket of 18th Century in the year 40000. The feather looks awesome. On my first cadians, I denoted different platoons and squads on their shoulder pads. Here you cant do this, but the American Sailors during the Revolutionary war would sew a cross on the top of their hats so their snipers in the Raven's Nest (lookout on top of sails) wouldnt fire at them. Just an idea. Since youre the one thats gona be looking at them the most, some sort of aerial identification might work for you. I like the feather idea too. The hat stitch is just another example from history.
I noticed youre keen on being called Mark so I did my best not to call you Terra's Guard.
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Mark,
I really like the unit. It retains some Mordian value but now looks like an 18th century Dragoon. It would be especially awesome if you made a Rough Riders Squad out of them.
Eventually, I will. Not any time soon, though, as converting an entire army to have these hats will already take months, but once I'm done I'll definitely look into cavalry.
Concerning the unit you posted. I know its primed, but are you still gona go with the gold/yellow trim that looked awesome.
Yeah, it'll be painted like the other trooper. I just wanted to show you guys a white plume with red tip, but didn't have time to paint the entire model.
I never liked the Mordians, but your unit just comes out as something completely original. Like a pocket of 18th Century in the year 40000. The feather looks awesome. On my first cadians, I denoted different platoons and squads on their shoulder pads. Here you cant do this, but the American Sailors during the Revolutionary war would sew a cross on the top of their hats so their snipers in the Raven's Nest (lookout on top of sails) wouldnt fire at them. Just an idea. Since youre the one thats gona be looking at them the most, some sort of aerial identification might work for you. I like the feather idea too. The hat stitch is just another example from history.
Hm, worth trying, I think. But it's one of those things that will cost a lot of extra work, so I'll first convert and paint up the models, then I'll see if I can add some more extras like crosses and whatever else. Keep this kind of ideas coming, though, even if I don't use them right now there's always a chance I'll use it later on! :)
I noticed youre keen on being called Mark so I did my best not to call you Terra's Guard.
Nah, I just think it looks a bit silly :P I put it in my name too because some people kept getting confused about the sig. I'm not gonna kill you if you say Terra's Guard instead of Mark! (I might hurt you a little, maybe break one or both of your legs and cut off your genitals, but I'm really not going to kill you over it... ;))
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Perhaps you could use those Cadian playing card symbols on top of the hats?
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And Pax, I can see wher eyou are coming from, but I think numbers on that kind of hat would look silly.
Yes, you do have a point there.
How high are the Mordians' collars exactly? You might be able to sneak some small Roman numerals in there with a small brush or pen.
Something else you could try is to use white feathers with red, blue and green tips to denote platoons, and use the bases in some way to differentiate between squads. You could paint a number of dots on the back of the base, or just the squad number, or you could apply different numbers of tufts of static grass to each squad's bases. If you have access to the WHFB Empire armies book, there are some pictures on the very last page of an army that uses the same black and white uniforms across the force, but every regiment's soldiers have a different colour plume tip. It works very well there.